☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Sikh Sikhi Sikhism
What Use Is It To Believe Everything?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Harry Haller" data-source="post: 162908" data-attributes="member: 14641"><p>Parmaji</p><p></p><p><span style="color: Blue">A point to you. If they have no opinions on this forum by your understanding? Why are you posting a question on here?</span></p><p></p><p>Having no opinions, is also an opinion, no?</p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: blue">I have read somewhere before the catholic faiths concept of god is it views god as a nothingness, that exsits everywhere, is that not a faith, a view, a religion?</span></p><p></p><p>I am not prepared to waste precious time and energy debating something that 'you have read somewhere', either submit a factual statement of the Catholic religion and then ask the question or debate 'things you have read somewhere' with someone else</p><p></p><p></p><p> <span style="color: blue">Many other faiths do as well, so are you rubbishing many faiths? Bringing your self down to the point of nothing is in fact one humble approach, but then it is to become one with that nothing that becomes apart of everything where the true enlightenment takes place.</span></p><p></p><p>I want nothing from a faith that offers me enlightenment, the very seeking of enlightenment could be seen egoistical, the very talking about enlightenment as an end product muddies the waters hugely, surely best to go with Hukam and take whatever comes as good.</p><p></p><p> <span style="color: blue">They are contradictions I know but the truth is the whole human life is a condradiction. You are born to live, yet you die. Only when the condradictions make sense do you realise without god it is all non-sense, it is a point of sanity a point of sobriety, were the mind elevates from the condradictions to the truth. Nothing is everything! You are a point of life, and life is the pendulum, the rights and wrongs you either swing this way or that way the point is to stay centred. In becoming that centred individual you are learning of who you are.</span></p><p></p><p>There is much talk of finding this centre to know who you are, I will tell you who you are, and you do not even need to find your centre, follow Hukam, rest is habit</p><p></p><p> <span style="color: blue">Very psychological but very practical as well. The greatest discovery any man can make in their whole life. When that is found and you realise you are a concept no greater or lesser than anything else then hopefully you find happiness. The point that I hope every life will strive for constant peace </span></p><p><span style="color: blue"></span></p><p></p><p>I take it the discovery of enlightenment and happiness is important to you, I have decided these are unimportant to me, the idea is to follow Hukam, and do your best within that Hukam, and then take all outcomes as good, be they happy or sad. </p><p></p><p><span style="color: blue">Who are you? What do you stand for? You are not a perfect person if I were to say you stand for the truth, the truth is you will lie so their in all is another condradiction. Once you overcome the contradictions then you can establish yourself which is a human. Just the same as every other human in the world what makes you better or the person to sit on the seat of judgment. Same applies to religion as that is based on humanity, so it can only be based on human thinking</span></p><p></p><p>Who am I? What do I stand for? I am something, and I stand for something. I can go into a casino and put £100 on number 23, it is either going to win or lose, and for a few moments I will lose myself in a flurry of thoughts, did I make the right decision, should I have gone for number 12, and I will either win, or I will lose. I would rather that, and leave penniless, or rich, than stay all night betting on every number, just so that I could win everytime, even though the odds would slowly whittle my money down in time, neither is the truth, but the latter is simply a waste of time. </p><p></p><p><span style="color: blue">Good they are on the approach to enlightenment. God exsists in everything.</span></p><p><span style="color: blue"></span></p><p></p><p>It is these sorts of soundbites I find unhelpful and confusing, sure they sound good, but in terms of real life pragmatic assistance they are largely useless. A belief in nothing is an Udasi path, which is fine if your Udasi. </p><p></p><p><span style="color: blue">Commitment does not come from conviction. It comes from an understanding expand your thoughts and there you will find your commitment</span></p><p></p><p>more soundbites, we will never understand enough to find conviction without commitment, it is action versus mental gymnastics</p><p></p><p><span style="color: blue">Certain things will effect all individaully this point is too in-depth as you are trying to define a person. Ask most people and I think alot of people at the age of 80 yrs are still searching for that centre self yet. It is like me saying your a bad man then you go and do a good deed, so define yourself their and then are you good or are you bad? A lot of people go through life without feeling complete psychologically or physically its just a process of life as we are sikh learning until you find that centre and become khalsa, pure can not be defined but a peaceful individual in all situations of life. </span></p><p></p><p>My own experience is that I know no more than I did when I was in my twenties, I understand things better, we are born with knowledge, it is understanding we lack, as for good or bad, that is all relative, my own benchmark is that anything that takes you closer to the truth as per Hukam is good, and anything that takes you away from the truth, as per Hukam is bad, rather than everything is nothing, nothing is everything, and its all good</p><p></p><p><span style="color: blue">Even when defending one’s self with the kirpan, you should be still at peace not fighting for hate, anger lust, and greed but for definite peace. </span></p><p><span style="color: blue">Like Bruce Lee said even in the midst of a fight I do not think about the winning or losing I let nature take its course, think of the moment in hand that centre that peace.</span></p><p></p><p>I think we must take the utmost care that we do not lose ourselves in these mental gymnastics that convince some people they are enlightened, and try and keep our feet on the ground. Bruce Lee was an actor, who acted in films, whose fighting was choreographed, just what relevance is a quote from an actor who portrayed a fighter, against the scores of Nihangs that died in battle fighting in the ruthless manner that they were famed for?</p><p></p><p>There seems to be a great tendency in Sikhi to pray and meditate and find the calm, and let Creator do the rest, that is not the spirit of Sikhi I recognise, Sikhi to me is to find peace when situations allow, to find the spirituality, but when the time comes to fight, to raise arms, then you better fight with all your body and soul, or die in meditation. </p><p></p><p>We are not Gods, nor are we superpeople, we are just human beings who have been given a mandate, a Hukam, on how to live, it is not going to turn us into Gods, it is not going to turn us into immortals, it is just going to enable us to spend the rest of our days in relative peace, regardless what the world throws at us, that is the best we can hope for, anyone searching for enlightenment has already lost, anyone searching for happiness has already lost, each day is a lesson, each day we pass or fail, each day is all we have</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Harry Haller, post: 162908, member: 14641"] Parmaji [COLOR="Blue"]A point to you. If they have no opinions on this forum by your understanding? Why are you posting a question on here?[/COLOR] Having no opinions, is also an opinion, no? [COLOR="blue"]I have read somewhere before the catholic faiths concept of god is it views god as a nothingness, that exsits everywhere, is that not a faith, a view, a religion?[/COLOR] I am not prepared to waste precious time and energy debating something that 'you have read somewhere', either submit a factual statement of the Catholic religion and then ask the question or debate 'things you have read somewhere' with someone else [COLOR="blue"]Many other faiths do as well, so are you rubbishing many faiths? Bringing your self down to the point of nothing is in fact one humble approach, but then it is to become one with that nothing that becomes apart of everything where the true enlightenment takes place.[/COLOR] I want nothing from a faith that offers me enlightenment, the very seeking of enlightenment could be seen egoistical, the very talking about enlightenment as an end product muddies the waters hugely, surely best to go with Hukam and take whatever comes as good. [COLOR="blue"]They are contradictions I know but the truth is the whole human life is a condradiction. You are born to live, yet you die. Only when the condradictions make sense do you realise without god it is all non-sense, it is a point of sanity a point of sobriety, were the mind elevates from the condradictions to the truth. Nothing is everything! You are a point of life, and life is the pendulum, the rights and wrongs you either swing this way or that way the point is to stay centred. In becoming that centred individual you are learning of who you are.[/COLOR] There is much talk of finding this centre to know who you are, I will tell you who you are, and you do not even need to find your centre, follow Hukam, rest is habit [COLOR="blue"]Very psychological but very practical as well. The greatest discovery any man can make in their whole life. When that is found and you realise you are a concept no greater or lesser than anything else then hopefully you find happiness. The point that I hope every life will strive for constant peace [/COLOR] I take it the discovery of enlightenment and happiness is important to you, I have decided these are unimportant to me, the idea is to follow Hukam, and do your best within that Hukam, and then take all outcomes as good, be they happy or sad. [COLOR="blue"]Who are you? What do you stand for? You are not a perfect person if I were to say you stand for the truth, the truth is you will lie so their in all is another condradiction. Once you overcome the contradictions then you can establish yourself which is a human. Just the same as every other human in the world what makes you better or the person to sit on the seat of judgment. Same applies to religion as that is based on humanity, so it can only be based on human thinking[/COLOR] Who am I? What do I stand for? I am something, and I stand for something. I can go into a casino and put £100 on number 23, it is either going to win or lose, and for a few moments I will lose myself in a flurry of thoughts, did I make the right decision, should I have gone for number 12, and I will either win, or I will lose. I would rather that, and leave penniless, or rich, than stay all night betting on every number, just so that I could win everytime, even though the odds would slowly whittle my money down in time, neither is the truth, but the latter is simply a waste of time. [COLOR="blue"]Good they are on the approach to enlightenment. God exsists in everything. [/COLOR] It is these sorts of soundbites I find unhelpful and confusing, sure they sound good, but in terms of real life pragmatic assistance they are largely useless. A belief in nothing is an Udasi path, which is fine if your Udasi. [COLOR="blue"]Commitment does not come from conviction. It comes from an understanding expand your thoughts and there you will find your commitment[/COLOR] more soundbites, we will never understand enough to find conviction without commitment, it is action versus mental gymnastics [COLOR="blue"]Certain things will effect all individaully this point is too in-depth as you are trying to define a person. Ask most people and I think alot of people at the age of 80 yrs are still searching for that centre self yet. It is like me saying your a bad man then you go and do a good deed, so define yourself their and then are you good or are you bad? A lot of people go through life without feeling complete psychologically or physically its just a process of life as we are sikh learning until you find that centre and become khalsa, pure can not be defined but a peaceful individual in all situations of life. [/COLOR] My own experience is that I know no more than I did when I was in my twenties, I understand things better, we are born with knowledge, it is understanding we lack, as for good or bad, that is all relative, my own benchmark is that anything that takes you closer to the truth as per Hukam is good, and anything that takes you away from the truth, as per Hukam is bad, rather than everything is nothing, nothing is everything, and its all good [COLOR="blue"]Even when defending one’s self with the kirpan, you should be still at peace not fighting for hate, anger lust, and greed but for definite peace. Like Bruce Lee said even in the midst of a fight I do not think about the winning or losing I let nature take its course, think of the moment in hand that centre that peace.[/COLOR] I think we must take the utmost care that we do not lose ourselves in these mental gymnastics that convince some people they are enlightened, and try and keep our feet on the ground. Bruce Lee was an actor, who acted in films, whose fighting was choreographed, just what relevance is a quote from an actor who portrayed a fighter, against the scores of Nihangs that died in battle fighting in the ruthless manner that they were famed for? There seems to be a great tendency in Sikhi to pray and meditate and find the calm, and let Creator do the rest, that is not the spirit of Sikhi I recognise, Sikhi to me is to find peace when situations allow, to find the spirituality, but when the time comes to fight, to raise arms, then you better fight with all your body and soul, or die in meditation. We are not Gods, nor are we superpeople, we are just human beings who have been given a mandate, a Hukam, on how to live, it is not going to turn us into Gods, it is not going to turn us into immortals, it is just going to enable us to spend the rest of our days in relative peace, regardless what the world throws at us, that is the best we can hope for, anyone searching for enlightenment has already lost, anyone searching for happiness has already lost, each day is a lesson, each day we pass or fail, each day is all we have [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Sikh Sikhi Sikhism
What Use Is It To Believe Everything?
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top