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What Is Name Of God As Per Sikhism Ek Onkar Or Waheguru?
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<blockquote data-quote="Archived_member15" data-source="post: 167327" data-attributes="member: 17438"><p><span style="font-family: 'Book Antiqua'"><span style="font-size: 12px">I don't think that we should get too fixated with names <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Book Antiqua'"><span style="font-size: 12px">I'll tell you a story as to why we shouldn't...</span></span></p><p></p><p></p><p><em><span style="font-family: 'Book Antiqua'"><span style="font-size: 12px">“And holy is His name”. The name of God is said to be holy, not because it contains in its syllables any special virtue, but because in whatsoever way we contemplate God, we see Him pure and holy.</span></span></em></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Book Antiqua'"><span style="font-size: 12px">- St. Basil the Great, <u>On Psalm 32</u>. </span></span></p><p></p><p> </p><p> </p><p><em><span style="font-family: 'Book Antiqua'"><span style="font-size: 12px">"...There was a time when God had no name, and there will be a time when he will have no name...." </span></span></em></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Book Antiqua'"><span style="font-size: 12px">- St. Isaac the Syrian, <u>Unpublished Chapters on Knowledge</u>, III,1, syr e7, Bodleian.</span></span></p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Book Antiqua'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><em><span style="font-family: 'Book Antiqua'">"...Remember, the power is not in the word, not in the name, but in God Himself, Who is named</span></em><span style="font-family: 'Book Antiqua'">..."</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Book Antiqua'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Book Antiqua'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><p style="text-align: right"><span style="font-family: 'Book Antiqua'">St. Barsanuphius of Optina</span></p><p></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Book Antiqua'"></span></p><p> </p><p>This debate about the name is eeirly familiar to me. In fact it nearly caused a major rift in the Eastern Catholic (Orthodox) Church during the early 1900s. No kidding. It was called the heresy of "Name-Worshippers" or "Imiaslavie" in Russian. </p><p> </p><p>The 20th century history of <em>Imiaslavie</em> started in 1907 with the publication of the book <em>On the</em> <span style="color: black">Caucasus Mountains by a revered </span><span style="color: black">starets</span><span style="color: black">, </span><span style="color: black">Schema-monk</span><span style="color: black"> Illarion. In his book, Illarion told of his spiritual experience with the </span><span style="color: black">Jesus Prayer</span><span style="color: black"> as a proof that <em>'The name of God is God Himself and can produce miracles. God exists in his name'</em>.</span></p><p> </p><p>In and of itself, apart from the ludicrous idea of miracles, there was nothing about what it said that was wrong but what happened next was the problem. </p><p> </p><p>The book became extremely popular <span style="color: black">among the Russian monks on </span><span style="color: black">Mount Athos</span><span style="color: black"> in </span><span style="color: black">Greece</span><span style="color: black">. </span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black">Many of them argued that, since according to </span><span style="color: black">Plato</span><span style="color: black">, "the name of an object exists since before the object itself does," so the name of God must pre-exist before the world was created, and that it (the Name) cannot be anything but God Himself. Among other things, this was thought to mean that knowledge of the </span><span style="color: black">secret name of God</span><span style="color: black"> alone allows one to perform miracles (a similar concept exists in </span><span style="color: black">Kabbalah</span><span style="color: black">). This group of monks became fixated with the actual syllables of the word "Name", thinking it contained God Himself in all his power. </span></p><p> </p><p>The opponents of <em>Imiaslavie</em>, the other Athonite monks, considered this teaching to be <span style="color: black">pantheistic</span> and incompatible with Christianity - and they were of course correct, it was an abuse of the concept. They argued that before the Creation God did not need this name, so the name was created and is actually an empty sound having no mystical attributes in and of itself. The proponents of this idea got the name <em>Imyaslavtsy</em> (those who glorify the Name) and its opponents were called <em>Imyabortsy</em> (those who fight the Name).</p><p> </p><p>This teaching was disseminated among the Russian Athonian monks. This new-found belief obtained another apologist in the person of Fr. Anthony Boulatovic, a former tsarist army officer. The disputes among the Russian Athonians were severe. The Name-Worshippers managed to elect the Dikaios (Abbot) of the Skete of St. Andrew. Abbot Misael of St. Panteleimon's monastery and also Boulatovic both addressed Ecumenical Patriarch Joachim III who condemned Name-Worshipping. In his letter to Abbot Misael dated September 12, 1912 where among other things he says "We paternally, sternly and immediately command those monks there who thoughtlessly theologize, invent and introduce the deluded theory of the name to withdraw from this soul-destroying delusion…" he also forbade the reading of the book "Upon the Mountains of the Caucasus."</p><p>But Boulatovic remained in his beliefs. He published books such as "A Defense" and "Concerning the Name of God" (in Greek) and various letters.</p><p></p><p>Among other things Boulatovic maintained that:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">"The name is God"</li> </ul> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">"The words heard by the Apostles on Tabor are God himself"</li> </ul> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">"The words heard by the Israelites on Sinai are God himself"</li> </ul> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">"The Grace of God is present in the hearings and the writings of God's name"</li> </ul><p>In other words, it is sufficient for one to call upon the name of God (even without faith, unconsciously) and God is obliged to be present with this person through His Grace and to fulfill his petition! :angryyoungkaur:</p><p> </p><p>The Name-Worshippers were declared as heretics. They resisted, naturally this label. </p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">The most vocal opponent was the </span><span style="color: black">archbishop</span><span style="color: black"> of </span><span style="color: black">Volyn</span><span style="color: black">, </span><span style="color: black">Anthony </span><span style="color: black">who considered <em>imiaslavie</em> to be a variation of the </span><span style="color: black">heresy</span><span style="color: black"> propounded by the </span><span style="color: black">Khlysts. </span><span style="color: black">In 1912, by decision of the </span><span style="color: black">Holy Synod</span><span style="color: black">, the book <em>On the Caucasus Mountains</em> became forbidden in Russia. It was not reprinted until 1998.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">In January 1913 a monk by the name of David, who was a supporter of <em>imiaslavie</em>, was elected as the </span><span style="color: black">hegumen</span><span style="color: black"> of the Andreyevsky </span><span style="color: black">skete</span><span style="color: black">, taking the place of the monk Hieronim who was an opponent of it. Hieronim did not recognize the results of the elections and complained to the </span><span style="color: black">Russian Embassy in Greece</span><span style="color: black">. The Imperial Government insisted on changing the hegumen back to Hieronim. In April the teaching of <em>imiaslavie</em> was also proclaimed to be heretical </span><span style="color: black">by the new </span><span style="color: black">Patriarch Germanus V of Constantinople</span>. </p><p> </p><p>A crisis ensued. </p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">In June 1913 a small Russian fleet, consisting of the </span><span style="color: black">gunboat</span><span style="color: black"> <em>Donets</em> and the transport ships <em>Tsar</em> and <em>Kherson</em>, delivered the archbishop of </span><span style="color: black">Vologda</span><span style="color: black">, Nikon (Rozhdestvensky), and a number of troops to Mount Athos. The poll organized by the archbishop had shown that among 1700 of </span><span style="color: black">St. Panteleimon Monastery's</span><span style="color: black"> monks, 661 monks identified themselves as imiabortsy, 517 as imiaslavtsy, 360 refused to participate in the poll, and the rest identified themselves as neutral. In May and June archbishop Nikon held talks with the Name-Worshippers and tried to convince them to change their beliefs voluntarily, but was unsuccessful. On July 31 the troops stormed the monastery. Although the monks were not armed and did not actively resist, the troops showed very heavy-handed tactics. They set up two machine guns and a number of water cannons, and the soldiers were ordered to beat the monks with their bayonets and rifle butts. Allegedly, four monks were killed and at least forty-eight were wounded. </span></p><p> </p><p>No one could believe it. Mount Athos, the holiest place in Eastern Catholicism, an island that had never been touched save by monks and their privileged visitors, had just been attacked by a fleet of Russian ships. Peaceful monks, wrapt in spiritual experiences, were now confronted with their age-old monasteries being stormed by troops firing at them with machine guns. </p><p> </p><p>And all this fighting had erupted over - of all things - the "Name" of God!!!!!</p><p></p><p><span style="color: black">After the storming of St. Panteleimon Monastery the monks from the Andreevsky Skete surrendered voluntarily.</span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black">The military transport <em>Kherson</em> was converted into a prison ship. It took 628 monks to Russia and on July 9 set sail to </span><span style="color: black">Odessa</span><span style="color: black">. Forty monks were left in the Mt. Athos hospital, judged unable to survive the transportation. On July 14 the steamship <em>Chikhachev</em> delivered another 212 monks from Mt. Athos. The rest of the monks signed papers that they rejected the imiaslavie.</span></p><p> </p><p>To this day, some Bishops still support the Name-Worshippers. Recently books have been written trying to demonstrate the mathematical implications of the Name. </p><p> </p><p>We should not worship names. God is nameless and above all his names. By focusing too much on specific names we can lose God in the process and lapse into magical fairytales like the Name-Worshippers. </p><p> </p><p>Let the the tragic story of the Name-Worshippers teach us! kaurhug</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Archived_member15, post: 167327, member: 17438"] [FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=3]I don't think that we should get too fixated with names :-)[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=3]I'll tell you a story as to why we shouldn't...[/SIZE][/FONT] [I][FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=3]“And holy is His name”. The name of God is said to be holy, not because it contains in its syllables any special virtue, but because in whatsoever way we contemplate God, we see Him pure and holy.[/SIZE][/FONT][/I] [FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=3]- St. Basil the Great, [U]On Psalm 32[/U]. [/SIZE][/FONT] [I][FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=3]"...There was a time when God had no name, and there will be a time when he will have no name...." [/SIZE][/FONT][/I] [FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=3]- St. Isaac the Syrian, [U]Unpublished Chapters on Knowledge[/U], III,1, syr e7, Bodleian.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=3][I][FONT=Book Antiqua]"...Remember, the power is not in the word, not in the name, but in God Himself, Who is named[/FONT][/I][FONT=Book Antiqua]..."[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=3][RIGHT][FONT=Book Antiqua]St. Barsanuphius of Optina[/FONT][/RIGHT] [/SIZE] [/FONT] This debate about the name is eeirly familiar to me. In fact it nearly caused a major rift in the Eastern Catholic (Orthodox) Church during the early 1900s. No kidding. It was called the heresy of "Name-Worshippers" or "Imiaslavie" in Russian. The 20th century history of [I]Imiaslavie[/I] started in 1907 with the publication of the book [I]On the[/I] [COLOR=black]Caucasus Mountains by a revered [/COLOR][COLOR=black]starets[/COLOR][COLOR=black], [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Schema-monk[/COLOR][COLOR=black] Illarion. In his book, Illarion told of his spiritual experience with the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Jesus Prayer[/COLOR][COLOR=black] as a proof that [I]'The name of God is God Himself and can produce miracles. God exists in his name'[/I].[/COLOR] In and of itself, apart from the ludicrous idea of miracles, there was nothing about what it said that was wrong but what happened next was the problem. The book became extremely popular [COLOR=black]among the Russian monks on [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Mount Athos[/COLOR][COLOR=black] in [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Greece[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Many of them argued that, since according to [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Plato[/COLOR][COLOR=black], "the name of an object exists since before the object itself does," so the name of God must pre-exist before the world was created, and that it (the Name) cannot be anything but God Himself. Among other things, this was thought to mean that knowledge of the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]secret name of God[/COLOR][COLOR=black] alone allows one to perform miracles (a similar concept exists in [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Kabbalah[/COLOR][COLOR=black]). This group of monks became fixated with the actual syllables of the word "Name", thinking it contained God Himself in all his power. [/COLOR] The opponents of [I]Imiaslavie[/I], the other Athonite monks, considered this teaching to be [COLOR=black]pantheistic[/COLOR] and incompatible with Christianity - and they were of course correct, it was an abuse of the concept. They argued that before the Creation God did not need this name, so the name was created and is actually an empty sound having no mystical attributes in and of itself. The proponents of this idea got the name [I]Imyaslavtsy[/I] (those who glorify the Name) and its opponents were called [I]Imyabortsy[/I] (those who fight the Name). This teaching was disseminated among the Russian Athonian monks. This new-found belief obtained another apologist in the person of Fr. Anthony Boulatovic, a former tsarist army officer. The disputes among the Russian Athonians were severe. The Name-Worshippers managed to elect the Dikaios (Abbot) of the Skete of St. Andrew. Abbot Misael of St. Panteleimon's monastery and also Boulatovic both addressed Ecumenical Patriarch Joachim III who condemned Name-Worshipping. In his letter to Abbot Misael dated September 12, 1912 where among other things he says "We paternally, sternly and immediately command those monks there who thoughtlessly theologize, invent and introduce the deluded theory of the name to withdraw from this soul-destroying delusion…" he also forbade the reading of the book "Upon the Mountains of the Caucasus." But Boulatovic remained in his beliefs. He published books such as "A Defense" and "Concerning the Name of God" (in Greek) and various letters. Among other things Boulatovic maintained that: [LIST] [*]"The name is God" [/LIST] [LIST] [*]"The words heard by the Apostles on Tabor are God himself" [/LIST] [LIST] [*]"The words heard by the Israelites on Sinai are God himself" [/LIST] [LIST] [*]"The Grace of God is present in the hearings and the writings of God's name" [/LIST]In other words, it is sufficient for one to call upon the name of God (even without faith, unconsciously) and God is obliged to be present with this person through His Grace and to fulfill his petition! :angryyoungkaur: The Name-Worshippers were declared as heretics. They resisted, naturally this label. [COLOR=black]The most vocal opponent was the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]archbishop[/COLOR][COLOR=black] of [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Volyn[/COLOR][COLOR=black], [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Anthony [/COLOR][COLOR=black]who considered [I]imiaslavie[/I] to be a variation of the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]heresy[/COLOR][COLOR=black] propounded by the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Khlysts. [/COLOR][COLOR=black]In 1912, by decision of the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Holy Synod[/COLOR][COLOR=black], the book [I]On the Caucasus Mountains[/I] became forbidden in Russia. It was not reprinted until 1998.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]In January 1913 a monk by the name of David, who was a supporter of [I]imiaslavie[/I], was elected as the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]hegumen[/COLOR][COLOR=black] of the Andreyevsky [/COLOR][COLOR=black]skete[/COLOR][COLOR=black], taking the place of the monk Hieronim who was an opponent of it. Hieronim did not recognize the results of the elections and complained to the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Russian Embassy in Greece[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. The Imperial Government insisted on changing the hegumen back to Hieronim. In April the teaching of [I]imiaslavie[/I] was also proclaimed to be heretical [/COLOR][COLOR=black]by the new [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Patriarch Germanus V of Constantinople[/COLOR]. A crisis ensued. [COLOR=black]In June 1913 a small Russian fleet, consisting of the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]gunboat[/COLOR][COLOR=black] [I]Donets[/I] and the transport ships [I]Tsar[/I] and [I]Kherson[/I], delivered the archbishop of [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Vologda[/COLOR][COLOR=black], Nikon (Rozhdestvensky), and a number of troops to Mount Athos. The poll organized by the archbishop had shown that among 1700 of [/COLOR][COLOR=black]St. Panteleimon Monastery's[/COLOR][COLOR=black] monks, 661 monks identified themselves as imiabortsy, 517 as imiaslavtsy, 360 refused to participate in the poll, and the rest identified themselves as neutral. In May and June archbishop Nikon held talks with the Name-Worshippers and tried to convince them to change their beliefs voluntarily, but was unsuccessful. On July 31 the troops stormed the monastery. Although the monks were not armed and did not actively resist, the troops showed very heavy-handed tactics. They set up two machine guns and a number of water cannons, and the soldiers were ordered to beat the monks with their bayonets and rifle butts. Allegedly, four monks were killed and at least forty-eight were wounded. [/COLOR] No one could believe it. Mount Athos, the holiest place in Eastern Catholicism, an island that had never been touched save by monks and their privileged visitors, had just been attacked by a fleet of Russian ships. Peaceful monks, wrapt in spiritual experiences, were now confronted with their age-old monasteries being stormed by troops firing at them with machine guns. And all this fighting had erupted over - of all things - the "Name" of God!!!!! [COLOR=black]After the storming of St. Panteleimon Monastery the monks from the Andreevsky Skete surrendered voluntarily.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]The military transport [I]Kherson[/I] was converted into a prison ship. It took 628 monks to Russia and on July 9 set sail to [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Odessa[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. Forty monks were left in the Mt. Athos hospital, judged unable to survive the transportation. On July 14 the steamship [I]Chikhachev[/I] delivered another 212 monks from Mt. Athos. The rest of the monks signed papers that they rejected the imiaslavie.[/COLOR] To this day, some Bishops still support the Name-Worshippers. Recently books have been written trying to demonstrate the mathematical implications of the Name. We should not worship names. God is nameless and above all his names. By focusing too much on specific names we can lose God in the process and lapse into magical fairytales like the Name-Worshippers. Let the the tragic story of the Name-Worshippers teach us! kaurhug [/QUOTE]
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What Is Name Of God As Per Sikhism Ek Onkar Or Waheguru?
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