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ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
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Gurbani (151-185)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
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Gurbani (537-556)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
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Gurbani (660-685)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
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Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
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Sikh Sikhi Sikhism
Sikhism Is Not The Same As Hinduism, Islam Or Christianity Etc
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<blockquote data-quote="Harjas Kaur Khalsa" data-source="post: 84512" data-attributes="member: 2125"><p>Sikhism does accept the caste system, and in exactly the same way as Vaishnavism as I will explain. Vaishnavism also reformed status of women. Since Vaishnavism is a sect within Hinduism, and Vaishnavism can be proven to have made these <em>"benchmark distinctions"</em> which you are claiming belong solely to Sikhism, then we have to let go of those distinctions, because they don't separate Sikhism from Vaishnavism.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਆਪੇ ਤੰਤੁ ਪਰਮ ਤੰਤੁ ਸਭੁ ਆਪੇ ਆਪੇ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਦਾਸੁ ਭਇਆ ॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">aapae thanth param thanth sabh aapae aapae thaakur dhaas bhaeiaa ||</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">He Himself is the supreme essence, He Himself is the essence of all. He Himself is the Lord and Master, and He Himself is the servant.</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਆਪੇ ਦਸ ਅਠ ਵਰਨ ਉਪਾਇਅਨੁ ਆਪਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਆਪਿ ਰਾਜੁ ਲਇਆ ॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">aapae dhas ath varan oupaaeian aap breham aap raaj laeiaa ||</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">He Himself created the people of the eighteen castes; God Himself acquired His domain.</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਆਪੇ ਮਾਰੇ ਆਪੇ ਛੋਡੈ ਆਪੇ ਬਖਸੇ ਕਰੇ ਦਇਆ ॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">aapae maarae aapae shhoddai aapae bakhasae karae dhaeiaa ||</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">He Himself kills, and He Himself redeems; He Himself, in His Kindness, forgives us. He is infallible</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਆਪਿ ਅਭੁਲੁ ਨ ਭੁਲੈ ਕਬ ਹੀ ਸਭੁ ਸਚੁ ਤਪਾਵਸੁ ਸਚੁ ਥਿਆ ॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">aap abhul n bhulai kab hee sabh sach thapaavas sach thhiaa ||</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">- He never errs; the justice of the True Lord is totally True.</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">~SGGS Ji p. 553</span></p><p></p><p></p><p>If Sikhism does not accept the caste system, per se, why does Gurbani say the Lord created the different castes?</p><p></p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Indigo">ਸੋ ਐਸਾ ਹਰਿ ਸਭਨਾ ਕਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਵਲਿ ਹੈ ਤਿਨਿ ਸਭਿ ਵਰਨ ਚਾਰੇ ਖਾਣੀ ਸਭ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਗੋਲੇ ਕਰਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਅਗੈ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਵਣ ਕਉ ਦੀਏ ॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Indigo">so aisaa har sabhanaa kaa prabh sathigur kai val hai thin sabh varan chaarae khaanee sabh srisatt golae kar sathigur agai kaar kamaavan ko dheeeae ||</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Indigo">Such is God, the Lord of all; He is on the True Guru's side. All castes and social classes, the four sources of creation, and the whole universe are slaves of the True Guru; God makes them work for Him.</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Indigo">~SGGS Ji p. 851</span></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: DarkOrchid">ਹਰਿ ਭਾਇਆ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਬੋਲਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸੁਜਾਣੁ ਜੀਉ ॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: DarkOrchid">har bhaaeiaa sathigur boliaa har miliaa purakh sujaan jeeo ||</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: DarkOrchid">The Lord was pleased as the True Guru spoke; he was blended then with the all-knowing Primal Lord God. </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: DarkOrchid"></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: DarkOrchid">ਰਾਮਦਾਸ ਸੋਢੀ ਤਿਲਕੁ ਦੀਆ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੁ ਸਚੁ ਨੀਸਾਣੁ ਜੀਉ ॥੫॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: DarkOrchid">raamadhaas sodtee thilak dheeaa gur sabadh sach neesaan jeeo ||5||</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: DarkOrchid">The Guru then blessed the Sodhi Ram Das with the ceremonial tilak mark, the insignia of the True Word of the Shabad. ||5||</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: DarkOrchid">~SGGS Ji p. 923</span></p><p></p><p></p><p>Gurbani is naming Guru Ram Das ji by His caste, Sodhi. Why is this, if Sikhism doesn't accept caste? Not only that, but Gurbani says Guruji placed a tilak mark on the forehead of Guru Ram Das Ji. Why is that? Why is Guru wearing a tilak mark?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Blue">ਖਤ੍ਰੀ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਸੂਦ ਵੈਸ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਚਹੁ ਵਰਨਾ ਕਉ ਸਾਝਾ ॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Blue">khathree braahaman soodh vais oupadhaes chahu varanaa ko saajhaa ||</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Blue">The four castes - the Kh'shaatriyas, Brahmins, Soodras and Vaishyas - are equal in respect to the teachings.</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Blue">~SGGS Ji p. 747</span></p><p></p><p></p><p>If Gurbani rejects the caste system, why does it say there are castes? It says there are castes, but in respect to the Guru's teachings, all are equal. The reform of caste system to allow all castes including untouchables, Muslim converts and women comes from Vaishnavism. The fact that bhagat bani comes from notable sants who were low caste such as Namdevji and Kabirji and these were also Vaishnav sants tells us that before Guru Nanak Dev Ji's message, a holy teaching about caste reform and equality was already underway.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">ਹੋਇ ਬਿਰਕਤੁ ਬਨਾਰਸੀ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਰਾਮਾਨਦੁ ਗੁਸਾਈਂ । </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">hoi birakatu banaarasee rahindaa raamaanadu gusaaeen|</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">Being detached from the world, Brahmin Ramanand lived in Varanasi (Kasi). </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy"></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਵੇਲੇ ਉਠਿ ਕੈ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਗੰਗਾ ਨ੍ਹਾਵਣ ਤਾਈਂ । </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">anmritu vaylay utdi kai jaandaa gangaa nhaavan taaeen|</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">He would rise early in the morning and go to the Ganges to bathe.</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy"></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">ਅਗੋ ਹੀ ਦੇ ਜਾਇ ਕੈ ਲਮਾ ਪਿਆ ਕਬੀਰ ਤਿਥਾਈਂ । </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">ago hee day jaai kai|amaa piaa kabeer tidaaeen|</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">Once even before Ramanand, Kabir went there and lay in the way. </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy"></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">ਪੈਰੀ ਟੁੰਬਿ ਉਠਾਲਿਆ ਬੋਲਹੁ ਰਾਮ ਸਿਖ ਸਮਝਾਈ । </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">pairee tunbi utdaaliaa bolahu raam sikh samajhaaee|</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">Touching with his feet Ramanand awakened Kabir and told him to speak ‘Ram’, the true spiritual teaching. </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy"></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">ਜਿਉ ਲੋਹਾ ਪਾਰਸੁ ਛੁਹੇ ਚੰਦਨ ਵਾਸੁ ਨਿਮੁ ਮਹਕਾਈ । </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">jiu|ohaa paarasu chhuhay chandan vaasu nimu mahakaaee|</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">As the iron touched by philosopher’s stone becomes gold and the margosa tree (Azadirachta indica) is made fragrant by sandal.</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy"></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">ਪਸੂ ਪਰੇਤਹੁ ਦੇਵ ਕਰਿ ਪੂਰੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਦੀ ਵਡਿਆਈ । </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">pasoo paraytahu dayv kari pooray satigur dee vadiaaee|</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">The wondrous Guru turns even animals and ghosts into angels.</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy"></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">ਅਚਰਜ ਨੋ ਅਚਰਜੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੈ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਮਿਲਾਈ । </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">acharaj no acharaju milai visamaadai visamaadu milaaee|</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">Meeting the wonderous Guru the disciple wonderfully merges into the great wonderous Lord.</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy"></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">ਝਰਣਾ ਝਰਦਾ ਨਿਝਰਹੁ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਅਘੜ ਘੜਾਈ । </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">jharanaa jharadaa nijharahu guramukhi baanee agharh gharhaaee|</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">Then from the Self springs a fountain and the words of the gurmukhs shape a beautiful form</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy"></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">ਰਾਮ ਕਬੀਰੈ ਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਭਾਈ ॥੧੫॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">raam kabeerai bhaydu n bhaaee ॥15॥</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">Now Ram and Kabir became identical.</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">~Vaar 10 Pauri 15 of Vaaran Bhai Gurdas Ji</span></p><p></p><p></p><p>Here vaaran is describing Ramanand ji as a Brahmin, and also as a Guru who enlightened Bhagat Kabir ji. So the quality of being a brahmin alone is not negated in Sikh teaching. Why is vaaran describing Ramanand Ji as a wondrous Guru of the wondrous Lord? Curious since he was not a Sikh of Guru Nanak Dev Ji, yet clearly a Hindu Guru who is also a Brahmin, can be enlightened. It does say something that Ramanand Ji passed transmission to Kabir Ji, since Kabir Ji was born a Muslim and hence low or no caste. So a Brahmin sant did not recognize caste distinctions as excluding someone from full equality in spirituality. As we see, Ramanand was a Vaishnav sant, as was Kabir Ji, who japped Raam Naam, and these became Gurumukhs and enlightened, so Hindu's can also reach the God with bhakti and Gur-shishya and Naam jap, as do Sikhs. As I have said before, where Gurbani is listing hypocrisy and corruptions it is not making Hindu religion into an evil thing, only showing how religion can become corrupted and false. Just as Gurbani says there can be holy brahmins, yogis, siddhas, and demi-gods. We shouldn't read into Gurbani that every Hindu, every brahmin, every yogi is evil and corrupted. (As has been mentioned on this post).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: Blue"><p style="margin-left: 20px">ਤਿਲਕ ਜੰਵੂ ਰਾਖਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤਾ ਕਾ ॥ ਕੀਨੋ ਬਡੋ ਕਲੂ ਮਹਿ ਸਾਕਾ ॥</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Blue">He protected the forehead mark and sacred thread which marked a great event in the Iron age.</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Blue"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Blue">ਸਾਧਨ ਹੇਤਿ ਇਤੀ ਜਿਨਿ ਕਰੀ ॥ ਸੀਸੁ ਦੀਆ ਪਰ ਸੀ ਨ ਉਚਰੀ ॥੧੩॥</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Blue">For the sake of saints, he laid down his head without even a sign.13.</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Blue"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Blue">ਧਰਮ ਹੇਤਿ ਸਾਕਾ ਜਿਨਿ ਕੀਆ ॥ ਸੀਸੁ ਦੀਆ ਪਰ ਸਿਰਰੁ ਨ ਦੀਆ ॥</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Blue">For the sake of Dharma, he sacrificed himself. He laid down his head but not his creed.</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Blue">Shri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji p. 131</p><p></span></p><p>Whose tilak mark and creed did Guruji protect? It does not say Hindu's. It says His own creed, to protect saints. This is a dramatically different interpretation.</p><p></p><p>If we do not bow to anyone, except the God and Guru, why does Gurbani say this?</p><p></p><p><span style="color: Navy"><p style="margin-left: 20px">ਭਾਈ ਰੇ ਸੰਤ ਜਨਾ ਕੀ ਰੇਣੁ ॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">bhaaee rae santh janaa kee raen ||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">O Siblings of Destiny, become the dust of the feet of the humble Saints.</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">~SGGS Ji p. 18</p><p></span></p><p><span style="color: Indigo"><p style="margin-left: 20px">ਤਿਨਾ ਭਗਤ ਜਨਾ ਕਉ ਸਦ ਨਮਸਕਾਰੁ ਕੀਜੈ ਜੋ ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Indigo">thinaa bhagath janaa ko sadh namasakaar keejai jo anadhin har gun gaavaniaa ||1|| rehaao ||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Indigo">I humbly bow to those devotees who chant the Glorious Praises of the Lord, night and day. ||1||Pause||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Indigo">~SGGS Ji p. 123</p><p></span></p><p></p><p>~Bhul chak maaf</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Harjas Kaur Khalsa, post: 84512, member: 2125"] Sikhism does accept the caste system, and in exactly the same way as Vaishnavism as I will explain. Vaishnavism also reformed status of women. Since Vaishnavism is a sect within Hinduism, and Vaishnavism can be proven to have made these [I]"benchmark distinctions"[/I] which you are claiming belong solely to Sikhism, then we have to let go of those distinctions, because they don't separate Sikhism from Vaishnavism. [INDENT][COLOR="Purple"]ਆਪੇ ਤੰਤੁ ਪਰਮ ਤੰਤੁ ਸਭੁ ਆਪੇ ਆਪੇ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਦਾਸੁ ਭਇਆ ॥ aapae thanth param thanth sabh aapae aapae thaakur dhaas bhaeiaa || He Himself is the supreme essence, He Himself is the essence of all. He Himself is the Lord and Master, and He Himself is the servant. ਆਪੇ ਦਸ ਅਠ ਵਰਨ ਉਪਾਇਅਨੁ ਆਪਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਆਪਿ ਰਾਜੁ ਲਇਆ ॥ aapae dhas ath varan oupaaeian aap breham aap raaj laeiaa || He Himself created the people of the eighteen castes; God Himself acquired His domain. ਆਪੇ ਮਾਰੇ ਆਪੇ ਛੋਡੈ ਆਪੇ ਬਖਸੇ ਕਰੇ ਦਇਆ ॥ aapae maarae aapae shhoddai aapae bakhasae karae dhaeiaa || He Himself kills, and He Himself redeems; He Himself, in His Kindness, forgives us. He is infallible ਆਪਿ ਅਭੁਲੁ ਨ ਭੁਲੈ ਕਬ ਹੀ ਸਭੁ ਸਚੁ ਤਪਾਵਸੁ ਸਚੁ ਥਿਆ ॥ aap abhul n bhulai kab hee sabh sach thapaavas sach thhiaa || - He never errs; the justice of the True Lord is totally True. ~SGGS Ji p. 553[/COLOR][/INDENT] If Sikhism does not accept the caste system, per se, why does Gurbani say the Lord created the different castes? [INDENT][COLOR="Indigo"]ਸੋ ਐਸਾ ਹਰਿ ਸਭਨਾ ਕਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਵਲਿ ਹੈ ਤਿਨਿ ਸਭਿ ਵਰਨ ਚਾਰੇ ਖਾਣੀ ਸਭ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਗੋਲੇ ਕਰਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਅਗੈ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਵਣ ਕਉ ਦੀਏ ॥ so aisaa har sabhanaa kaa prabh sathigur kai val hai thin sabh varan chaarae khaanee sabh srisatt golae kar sathigur agai kaar kamaavan ko dheeeae || Such is God, the Lord of all; He is on the True Guru's side. All castes and social classes, the four sources of creation, and the whole universe are slaves of the True Guru; God makes them work for Him. ~SGGS Ji p. 851[/COLOR][/INDENT] [INDENT][COLOR="DarkOrchid"]ਹਰਿ ਭਾਇਆ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਬੋਲਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸੁਜਾਣੁ ਜੀਉ ॥ har bhaaeiaa sathigur boliaa har miliaa purakh sujaan jeeo || The Lord was pleased as the True Guru spoke; he was blended then with the all-knowing Primal Lord God. ਰਾਮਦਾਸ ਸੋਢੀ ਤਿਲਕੁ ਦੀਆ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੁ ਸਚੁ ਨੀਸਾਣੁ ਜੀਉ ॥੫॥ raamadhaas sodtee thilak dheeaa gur sabadh sach neesaan jeeo ||5|| The Guru then blessed the Sodhi Ram Das with the ceremonial tilak mark, the insignia of the True Word of the Shabad. ||5|| ~SGGS Ji p. 923[/COLOR][/INDENT] Gurbani is naming Guru Ram Das ji by His caste, Sodhi. Why is this, if Sikhism doesn't accept caste? Not only that, but Gurbani says Guruji placed a tilak mark on the forehead of Guru Ram Das Ji. Why is that? Why is Guru wearing a tilak mark? [INDENT][COLOR="Blue"]ਖਤ੍ਰੀ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਸੂਦ ਵੈਸ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਚਹੁ ਵਰਨਾ ਕਉ ਸਾਝਾ ॥ khathree braahaman soodh vais oupadhaes chahu varanaa ko saajhaa || The four castes - the Kh'shaatriyas, Brahmins, Soodras and Vaishyas - are equal in respect to the teachings. ~SGGS Ji p. 747[/COLOR][/INDENT] If Gurbani rejects the caste system, why does it say there are castes? It says there are castes, but in respect to the Guru's teachings, all are equal. The reform of caste system to allow all castes including untouchables, Muslim converts and women comes from Vaishnavism. The fact that bhagat bani comes from notable sants who were low caste such as Namdevji and Kabirji and these were also Vaishnav sants tells us that before Guru Nanak Dev Ji's message, a holy teaching about caste reform and equality was already underway. [INDENT][COLOR="Navy"]ਹੋਇ ਬਿਰਕਤੁ ਬਨਾਰਸੀ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਰਾਮਾਨਦੁ ਗੁਸਾਈਂ । hoi birakatu banaarasee rahindaa raamaanadu gusaaeen| Being detached from the world, Brahmin Ramanand lived in Varanasi (Kasi). ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਵੇਲੇ ਉਠਿ ਕੈ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਗੰਗਾ ਨ੍ਹਾਵਣ ਤਾਈਂ । anmritu vaylay utdi kai jaandaa gangaa nhaavan taaeen| He would rise early in the morning and go to the Ganges to bathe. ਅਗੋ ਹੀ ਦੇ ਜਾਇ ਕੈ ਲਮਾ ਪਿਆ ਕਬੀਰ ਤਿਥਾਈਂ । ago hee day jaai kai|amaa piaa kabeer tidaaeen| Once even before Ramanand, Kabir went there and lay in the way. ਪੈਰੀ ਟੁੰਬਿ ਉਠਾਲਿਆ ਬੋਲਹੁ ਰਾਮ ਸਿਖ ਸਮਝਾਈ । pairee tunbi utdaaliaa bolahu raam sikh samajhaaee| Touching with his feet Ramanand awakened Kabir and told him to speak ‘Ram’, the true spiritual teaching. ਜਿਉ ਲੋਹਾ ਪਾਰਸੁ ਛੁਹੇ ਚੰਦਨ ਵਾਸੁ ਨਿਮੁ ਮਹਕਾਈ । jiu|ohaa paarasu chhuhay chandan vaasu nimu mahakaaee| As the iron touched by philosopher’s stone becomes gold and the margosa tree (Azadirachta indica) is made fragrant by sandal. ਪਸੂ ਪਰੇਤਹੁ ਦੇਵ ਕਰਿ ਪੂਰੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਦੀ ਵਡਿਆਈ । pasoo paraytahu dayv kari pooray satigur dee vadiaaee| The wondrous Guru turns even animals and ghosts into angels. ਅਚਰਜ ਨੋ ਅਚਰਜੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੈ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਮਿਲਾਈ । acharaj no acharaju milai visamaadai visamaadu milaaee| Meeting the wonderous Guru the disciple wonderfully merges into the great wonderous Lord. ਝਰਣਾ ਝਰਦਾ ਨਿਝਰਹੁ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਅਘੜ ਘੜਾਈ । jharanaa jharadaa nijharahu guramukhi baanee agharh gharhaaee| Then from the Self springs a fountain and the words of the gurmukhs shape a beautiful form ਰਾਮ ਕਬੀਰੈ ਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਭਾਈ ॥੧੫॥ raam kabeerai bhaydu n bhaaee ॥15॥ Now Ram and Kabir became identical. ~Vaar 10 Pauri 15 of Vaaran Bhai Gurdas Ji[/COLOR][/INDENT] Here vaaran is describing Ramanand ji as a Brahmin, and also as a Guru who enlightened Bhagat Kabir ji. So the quality of being a brahmin alone is not negated in Sikh teaching. Why is vaaran describing Ramanand Ji as a wondrous Guru of the wondrous Lord? Curious since he was not a Sikh of Guru Nanak Dev Ji, yet clearly a Hindu Guru who is also a Brahmin, can be enlightened. It does say something that Ramanand Ji passed transmission to Kabir Ji, since Kabir Ji was born a Muslim and hence low or no caste. So a Brahmin sant did not recognize caste distinctions as excluding someone from full equality in spirituality. As we see, Ramanand was a Vaishnav sant, as was Kabir Ji, who japped Raam Naam, and these became Gurumukhs and enlightened, so Hindu's can also reach the God with bhakti and Gur-shishya and Naam jap, as do Sikhs. As I have said before, where Gurbani is listing hypocrisy and corruptions it is not making Hindu religion into an evil thing, only showing how religion can become corrupted and false. Just as Gurbani says there can be holy brahmins, yogis, siddhas, and demi-gods. We shouldn't read into Gurbani that every Hindu, every brahmin, every yogi is evil and corrupted. (As has been mentioned on this post). [COLOR="Blue"][indent]ਤਿਲਕ ਜੰਵੂ ਰਾਖਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤਾ ਕਾ ॥ ਕੀਨੋ ਬਡੋ ਕਲੂ ਮਹਿ ਸਾਕਾ ॥ He protected the forehead mark and sacred thread which marked a great event in the Iron age. ਸਾਧਨ ਹੇਤਿ ਇਤੀ ਜਿਨਿ ਕਰੀ ॥ ਸੀਸੁ ਦੀਆ ਪਰ ਸੀ ਨ ਉਚਰੀ ॥੧੩॥ For the sake of saints, he laid down his head without even a sign.13. ਧਰਮ ਹੇਤਿ ਸਾਕਾ ਜਿਨਿ ਕੀਆ ॥ ਸੀਸੁ ਦੀਆ ਪਰ ਸਿਰਰੁ ਨ ਦੀਆ ॥ For the sake of Dharma, he sacrificed himself. He laid down his head but not his creed. Shri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji p. 131[/indent][/COLOR] Whose tilak mark and creed did Guruji protect? It does not say Hindu's. It says His own creed, to protect saints. This is a dramatically different interpretation. If we do not bow to anyone, except the God and Guru, why does Gurbani say this? [COLOR="Navy"][indent]ਭਾਈ ਰੇ ਸੰਤ ਜਨਾ ਕੀ ਰੇਣੁ ॥ bhaaee rae santh janaa kee raen || O Siblings of Destiny, become the dust of the feet of the humble Saints. ~SGGS Ji p. 18[/indent][/COLOR] [COLOR="Indigo"][indent]ਤਿਨਾ ਭਗਤ ਜਨਾ ਕਉ ਸਦ ਨਮਸਕਾਰੁ ਕੀਜੈ ਜੋ ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ thinaa bhagath janaa ko sadh namasakaar keejai jo anadhin har gun gaavaniaa ||1|| rehaao || I humbly bow to those devotees who chant the Glorious Praises of the Lord, night and day. ||1||Pause|| ~SGGS Ji p. 123[/indent][/COLOR] ~Bhul chak maaf [/QUOTE]
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