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Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
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Sikh Sikhi Sikhism
Sikhism Is Not The Same As Hinduism, Islam Or Christianity Etc
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<blockquote data-quote="pk70" data-source="post: 84480" data-attributes="member: 5889"><p><strong>Re: Sikhism is not the same as Hinduism..or Islam, .....or Christianity.....etc</strong></p><p></p><p>Vaishnav philosophy gave us the teaching that God is both nirguna and sarguna. Vaishnavism believes that the ultimate is Maha-Vishnu (All-pervading) or Parabrahm (before the Brahma). It is the formless God which Vaishnavs acknowledge is the Ultimate, but He is revered in form of His sargun avtaaras, which incidentally are also named and referred to as God in Gurbani. It is taught that japping the Naam of the sargun manifestations is the boat of mukti in the Kaliyug, since no one can jap the name of the formless who is beyond language. Hence the Vaishnavs jap Naam of God as Ram, Krishna, Vishnu, Vasudeyva, Govind, Gopala, Narayana, Parabrahm, Mukundey, etc. And if this sounds familiar, it should. <u>It's all in Gurbani</u>( quote Harjas Kaur Khalsa ji<u>)</u></p><p> <strong> Harjas Bhain ji, I am trying to discuss only those points you hinted at in your recent post, rest I am not going to bring back</strong></p><p> <strong>You read that Vashnava, I didn’t, to be honest with you, my journey ends at Guru Nanak so I am not interested in reading that either. If I go with your interpretation, Vashnvas teaches us that Lord has two forms, Sargun and Nirgun. He sends avtar to enlighten people. I am with you, not necessarily agreed with you but just to listen about them through you. Now as stated by you” they have main Vishnu, Parbraham, one part of Vishnu incarnates as Sarguna . As people cannot contemplate on Nirgun, so by worshiping Sargun, people get mukti. As per your statement, Gurbani uses those names to contemplate on those names because it is hard to contemplate on Nirguna. If we go by this idea, we are in a mess, our attention is divided, Second Mehal calls it “ duality” he says” only one can be loved that is Nirguna.( Asa dee Vaar) All others who came through body met their end, only beyond is that Nirguna form which you say they believe it is not easy to contemplate on. Vashnavas also worship sargun form Krishna, in Geeta, Krishna says” I am God” also he says” I am son of Vasudeva( Lord) Gurbani accepts himas Sargun sroop but no where else it says” He was God or son of God,” as Krishna claims. I am not really care about singh sabha or its agenda, my thinking is to see if all Gurbani stands in align with Vashnava, if not, there are only similarities . All the names you gave are used for Nirgun form not in sense of sargun in Gurbani because Guru ji is very strict in context of calling Him” takes birth” You quote any shabad, I shall discuss with you. I quote a few Guru Vaak here, just to see how those names are used for Nirgun not for sargun, the reason I say is that in Gurbani, Krishnas deceptive attitude is expressed, Ram’s ordinary man’s behavior is described, all other well known names are really not considered as guiding light for Sikhs. Here is Guru bachan unlike Vashnava’s complete philosophy ( as they say He comes in sargun srop to enlighten people), Gurbani stresses only on Nirguna</strong></p><p> <span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%A8" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜਿਨ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%89" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਉ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%97%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A5%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%86" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਥਾਪਿਆ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%A8" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਤਿਨ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A9%87%E0%A8%9F%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮੇਟਿ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%95%E0%A9%88" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਕੈ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A9%8B%E0%A8%87" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕੋਇ</span> </a></span></span><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span> <span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%93%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਓਨਾ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਅੰਦਰਿ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%AE%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾਮੁ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%A7%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਿਧਾਨੁ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%88" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਹੈ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%AE%E0%A9%8B" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾਮੋ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%97%E0%A8%9F%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪਰਗਟੁ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%8B%E0%A8%87" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਹੋਇ</span> </a></span></span><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span><span style="color: red"> </span><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%89" target="_blank"><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾਉ</span></span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A9%82%E0%A8%9C%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%90" target="_blank"><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪੂਜੀਐ</span></span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%89" target="_blank"><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾਉ</span></span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%90" target="_blank"><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮੰਨੀਐ</span></span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A8%96%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%A1%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਅਖੰਡੁ</span></span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%BE" target="_blank"><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਦਾ</span></span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਚੁ</span></span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%8B%E0%A8%87" target="_blank"><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸੋਇ</span></span> </a></span></span><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੩</span></span><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span><span style="color: red"> </span></p><p> <span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">None can unseat then whom the True Guru has installed.</span></span> <span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Within then is the Name treasure and through the Name they are renowned</span></span><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">.</span></span><span style="color: red"> </span><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">They worship God's Name and believe in nothing but the Name. Ever imperishable is that True Lord.</span></span><span style="color: red"> </span></p><p><span style="color: red"></span></p><p> <strong>Now look at the below Guru Vaak, here many names are given to Nirgun Entity</strong></p><p> <span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%AE" target="_blank"><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਰਾਮ</span></span> </a></span></span><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%AE%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾਮੁ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜਪਿ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਦਿਨਸੁ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਰਾਤਿ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%97%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%AE%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%96%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ</span> </a></span></span><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਹਰਿ</span></span> </a></span></span><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A7%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਧਨੁ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜਾਨੁ</span> </a></span></span><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span> <span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%AD%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਭਿ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%96" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸੁਖ</span> </a></span></span><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਹਰਿ</span></span> </a></span></span><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%B8" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਰਸ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AD%E0%A9%8B%E0%A8%97%E0%A8%A3%E0%A9%87" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਭੋਗਣੇ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%A4" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸੰਤ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%AD%E0%A8%BE" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਭਾ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%B2%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਿਲਿ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%97%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਗਿਆਨੁ</span> </a></span></span><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span> <span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਿਤਿ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿ</span> </a></span></span><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਹਰਿ</span></span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A9%8D%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%AD%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪ੍ਰਭੁ</span></span> </a></span></span><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%87%E0%A8%B5%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%86" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸੇਵਿਆ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%97%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਤਗੁਰਿ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%86" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਦੀਆ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%AE%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾਮੁ</span> </a></span></span><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੨</span></span><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span> </p><p> <span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Meditate on God God's Name day and night and by Guru's grace deem God's Name thy treasure.</span></span> <span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">By meeting the society of saints thou shalt acquire Divine Knowledge and enjoy all comforts and God's elixir.</span></span> <span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">He, whom the True Guru has given the Name, ever serves Lord God day and night.</span></span> </p><p> <strong>Bhain ji as I follow you, in this Guru Vaak, “ Ram” is used for Him,, Har is used for Him, Prabh is used for Him. If we say here Guru ji is using these names for Ram or Shiva( Har), then Gurbani teaches us to worship those guys who are known behind these names. Truth is otherwise, Guru ji stresses on </strong><strong>Nam</strong><strong>( above quote, stress is on Nirguna), some time without any names at all. So I feel that looking at” Ram’ Krishan” words His entity is dragged to those historical people about whom Gurbani Gurbani says” those kings were considered incarnation but actually were not, a quote was given before. If we go by Vashnava thought only, we are stuck with theses names but Guru ji takes us to right Source that is Him, if Vashnava practiced both plans, admitting there is Nirguna but there is Sarguna that can be worshiped then Gurubani detours from that thought only to Nirguna and Sarguna form is not worshipable.</strong></p><p> which definitions are even contrary to Gurbani teaching, such as <a href="http://www.sikhism.us/" target="_blank">Sikh</a> Rehit Maryada claiming Sikhs don't believe in avtaaras, when Gurbani clearly defines <a href="http://www.sikhism.us/" target="_blank">Sikh</a> Guru as an avtaara</p><p> <strong> Gurbani doesn’t say Guru Nanak was incarnation of Vishnu. That also not right because none of the Gurus said so. Compliments are distorted and called Guru Nanak God, incarnation of Vishnu. If you give quote from Gurbani, I shall happily show you what that meant in context of totality of the Shabad. Sikh Rehat maryada is not ideal for me since it has flaw any way, it should be revised time to time since it is not directed by Guru ji. So we have no disagreement on that</strong></p><p> Also, simply calling yourself doesn't mean you have the eternal and the Hindu's do not. That is really an ethnocentric philosophy of arrogance. The God of eternity belongs to every human being regardless of religion. It is no <a href="http://www.sikhism.us/" target="_blank">Sikh</a> exclusive right to claim to have the Infinite God who is beyond birth. </p><p> I <strong>agree, even there are other faiths HE has given to people to get enlightened. I am not capable of worshiping every thing; I can only worship Him as creator of all. Sikhs do not claim that only Sikhi brings union with Lord and they should not being respectful to His Hukam( another concept Vashnava doesn’t have), as they are being buried under avalounche of incarnated Gods, they have to cry hard to tell the </strong>[/FONT] <strong>world that they only believe in Infinite beyond birth, nothing more than that. By saying so, they do not take away others right to have God. Muslims say He is in Kaba, so it be, Hindus see Him in many forms, all right.</strong></p><p> <strong>Am I only right? That is not my claim. Are they wrong, I am not their judge but Gurbani says they don’t use their sight( Hindu is blind) but Gurbani also says that every one is under His ordinance, how then others can be wrong then? Obviously they are not for Sikhs as advised by Guru ji</strong></p><p> Please show me where in Gurbani Guruji adopted tenets and belief system of Islam.</p><p> <strong>Bhain ji, I hope, you are aware of this fact that Guru ji didn’t criticize Islam either; he only pointed out corrupt religious guides and rulers aligned with them, actually Guru goes further by telling them how to be good Muslims. In a same tune, he says to others too including Vashnava, Hindus etc. My stand is not with those who say Sikhism adopts Islam’s tenants, I think they forcibly trying to prove it just for their own agenda. Guru ji accepts their Allah as Allah who is not Vishnu or who incarnates; if Guru ji believed in Vashnava concept of Sargun from who descends as avtars, he wouldn’t say those kings were created and who are considered His incarnations, that only is pretty big stand against any prevailed philosophy. Partially Guru ji is closer to Islam’s oneness of God who doesn’t incarnate, Fifth Nanak stresses on it by repeating His being Ajooni every where in SGGS Ji. As Guru ji detours from Hinduism, he detours from Islam too by accepting His Creation a part of Him unlike Islam. So I agree on that while disagreeing on the other claim.</strong></p><p> <strong>Last comments on separate state, it is all political, it has nothing to do with religion. Even if Sikhs get separate state, it will be very much corrupt one as I have seen all Sikhs in politics rarely any one follow Guru ji. Youth is being used and if you are aware of Dr Chuhan, so called founder of this moment, where did he land? There are a lot of Sikhs out there who do not support this idiotic thinking. After having said that, there are discriminating policies of central Govt. towards [/FONT]</strong><strong>Punjab[/FONT]</strong><strong> specially ( usually that thing happens with other states too if Govt. in power doesn’t represent them in any way). Preaching hatred towards any one, being Sikh, it is self inflicted disease that ends the goal of a Sikh. I must mention the role of fanatic Hindus and political parties who flame religious sentiments with many excuses in name of religion. Reactions are inevitable. If these fanatics so called Sikhs are doing that, fanatics Hindus are also in high gear to hurt the harmony most of the people want to have. Then why only one side needs to be criticized, criticize all culprits. Thanks for bearing with me.</strong></p><p> <strong></strong></p><p> <strong>[/FONT]</strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pk70, post: 84480, member: 5889"] [b]Re: Sikhism is not the same as Hinduism..or Islam, .....or Christianity.....etc[/b] Vaishnav philosophy gave us the teaching that God is both nirguna and sarguna. Vaishnavism believes that the ultimate is Maha-Vishnu (All-pervading) or Parabrahm (before the Brahma). It is the formless God which Vaishnavs acknowledge is the Ultimate, but He is revered in form of His sargun avtaaras, which incidentally are also named and referred to as God in Gurbani. It is taught that japping the Naam of the sargun manifestations is the boat of mukti in the Kaliyug, since no one can jap the name of the formless who is beyond language. Hence the Vaishnavs jap Naam of God as Ram, Krishna, Vishnu, Vasudeyva, Govind, Gopala, Narayana, Parabrahm, Mukundey, etc. And if this sounds familiar, it should. [U]It's all in Gurbani[/U]( quote Harjas Kaur Khalsa ji[U])[/U] [B] Harjas Bhain ji, I am trying to discuss only those points you hinted at in your recent post, rest I am not going to bring back[/B] [B]You read that Vashnava, I didn’t, to be honest with you, my journey ends at Guru Nanak so I am not interested in reading that either. If I go with your interpretation, Vashnvas teaches us that Lord has two forms, Sargun and Nirgun. He sends avtar to enlighten people. I am with you, not necessarily agreed with you but just to listen about them through you. Now as stated by you” they have main Vishnu, Parbraham, one part of Vishnu incarnates as Sarguna . As people cannot contemplate on Nirgun, so by worshiping Sargun, people get mukti. As per your statement, Gurbani uses those names to contemplate on those names because it is hard to contemplate on Nirguna. If we go by this idea, we are in a mess, our attention is divided, Second Mehal calls it “ duality” he says” only one can be loved that is Nirguna.( Asa dee Vaar) All others who came through body met their end, only beyond is that Nirguna form which you say they believe it is not easy to contemplate on. Vashnavas also worship sargun form Krishna, in Geeta, Krishna says” I am God” also he says” I am son of Vasudeva( Lord) Gurbani accepts himas Sargun sroop but no where else it says” He was God or son of God,” as Krishna claims. I am not really care about singh sabha or its agenda, my thinking is to see if all Gurbani stands in align with Vashnava, if not, there are only similarities . All the names you gave are used for Nirgun form not in sense of sargun in Gurbani because Guru ji is very strict in context of calling Him” takes birth” You quote any shabad, I shall discuss with you. I quote a few Guru Vaak here, just to see how those names are used for Nirgun not for sargun, the reason I say is that in Gurbani, Krishnas deceptive attitude is expressed, Ram’s ordinary man’s behavior is described, all other well known names are really not considered as guiding light for Sikhs. Here is Guru bachan unlike Vashnava’s complete philosophy ( as they say He comes in sargun srop to enlighten people), Gurbani stresses only on Nirguna[/B] [COLOR=maroon][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%A8"][FONT=Raavi]ਜਿਨ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%89"][FONT=Raavi]ਕਉ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%97%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF"][FONT=Raavi]ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A5%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%86"][FONT=Raavi]ਥਾਪਿਆ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%A8"][FONT=Raavi]ਤਿਨ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A9%87%E0%A8%9F%E0%A8%BF"][FONT=Raavi]ਮੇਟਿ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8"][FONT=Raavi]ਨ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%95%E0%A9%88"][FONT=Raavi]ਸਕੈ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A9%8B%E0%A8%87"][FONT=Raavi]ਕੋਇ[/FONT] [/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=maroon][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=maroon][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%93%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE"][FONT=Raavi]ਓਨਾ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF"][FONT=Raavi]ਅੰਦਰਿ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%AE%E0%A9%81"][FONT=Raavi]ਨਾਮੁ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%A7%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%81"][FONT=Raavi]ਨਿਧਾਨੁ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%88"][FONT=Raavi]ਹੈ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%AE%E0%A9%8B"][FONT=Raavi]ਨਾਮੋ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%97%E0%A8%9F%E0%A9%81"][FONT=Raavi]ਪਰਗਟੁ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%8B%E0%A8%87"][FONT=Raavi]ਹੋਇ[/FONT] [/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red] [/COLOR][COLOR=red][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%89"][COLOR=red][FONT=Raavi]ਨਾਉ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red] [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A9%82%E0%A8%9C%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%90"][COLOR=red][FONT=Raavi]ਪੂਜੀਐ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red] [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%89"][COLOR=red][FONT=Raavi]ਨਾਉ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red] [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%90"][COLOR=red][FONT=Raavi]ਮੰਨੀਐ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red] [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A8%96%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%A1%E0%A9%81"][COLOR=red][FONT=Raavi]ਅਖੰਡੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red] [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%BE"][COLOR=red][FONT=Raavi]ਸਦਾ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red] [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%81"][COLOR=red][FONT=Raavi]ਸਚੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red] [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%8B%E0%A8%87"][COLOR=red][FONT=Raavi]ਸੋਇ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red] [/COLOR][/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red][FONT=Raavi]੩[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red] [/COLOR] [COLOR=navy][FONT=Tahoma]None can unseat then whom the True Guru has installed.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=navy][FONT=Tahoma]Within then is the Name treasure and through the Name they are renowned[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red][FONT=Tahoma].[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red] [/COLOR][COLOR=red][FONT=Tahoma]They worship God's Name and believe in nothing but the Name. Ever imperishable is that True Lord.[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red] [/COLOR] [B]Now look at the below Guru Vaak, here many names are given to Nirgun Entity[/B] [COLOR=red][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%AE"][COLOR=red][FONT=Raavi]ਰਾਮ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red] [/COLOR][/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=maroon][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%AE%E0%A9%81"][FONT=Raavi]ਨਾਮੁ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BF"][FONT=Raavi]ਜਪਿ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%81"][FONT=Raavi]ਦਿਨਸੁ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BF"][FONT=Raavi]ਰਾਤਿ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%97%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%AE%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%96%E0%A8%BF"][FONT=Raavi]ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ[/FONT] [/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF"][COLOR=red][FONT=Raavi]ਹਰਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red] [/COLOR][/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=maroon][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A7%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%81"][FONT=Raavi]ਧਨੁ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%81"][FONT=Raavi]ਜਾਨੁ[/FONT] [/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=maroon][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=maroon][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%AD%E0%A8%BF"][FONT=Raavi]ਸਭਿ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%96"][FONT=Raavi]ਸੁਖ[/FONT] [/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF"][COLOR=red][FONT=Raavi]ਹਰਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red] [/COLOR][/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=maroon][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%B8"][FONT=Raavi]ਰਸ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AD%E0%A9%8B%E0%A8%97%E0%A8%A3%E0%A9%87"][FONT=Raavi]ਭੋਗਣੇ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%A4"][FONT=Raavi]ਸੰਤ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%AD%E0%A8%BE"][FONT=Raavi]ਸਭਾ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%B2%E0%A8%BF"][FONT=Raavi]ਮਿਲਿ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%97%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%81"][FONT=Raavi]ਗਿਆਨੁ[/FONT] [/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=maroon][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=maroon][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BF"][FONT=Raavi]ਨਿਤਿ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%BF"][FONT=Raavi]ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿ[/FONT] [/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF"][COLOR=red][FONT=Raavi]ਹਰਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red] [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A9%8D%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%AD%E0%A9%81"][COLOR=red][FONT=Raavi]ਪ੍ਰਭੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red] [/COLOR][/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=maroon][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%87%E0%A8%B5%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%86"][FONT=Raavi]ਸੇਵਿਆ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%97%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF"][FONT=Raavi]ਸਤਗੁਰਿ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%86"][FONT=Raavi]ਦੀਆ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%AE%E0%A9%81"][FONT=Raavi]ਨਾਮੁ[/FONT] [/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=maroon][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=maroon][FONT=Raavi]੨[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=maroon][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=navy][FONT=Tahoma]Meditate on God God's Name day and night and by Guru's grace deem God's Name thy treasure.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=navy][FONT=Tahoma]By meeting the society of saints thou shalt acquire Divine Knowledge and enjoy all comforts and God's elixir.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=navy][FONT=Tahoma]He, whom the True Guru has given the Name, ever serves Lord God day and night.[/FONT][/COLOR] [B]Bhain ji as I follow you, in this Guru Vaak, “ Ram” is used for Him,, Har is used for Him, Prabh is used for Him. If we say here Guru ji is using these names for Ram or Shiva( Har), then Gurbani teaches us to worship those guys who are known behind these names. Truth is otherwise, Guru ji stresses on [/B][B]Nam[/B][B]( above quote, stress is on Nirguna), some time without any names at all. So I feel that looking at” Ram’ Krishan” words His entity is dragged to those historical people about whom Gurbani Gurbani says” those kings were considered incarnation but actually were not, a quote was given before. If we go by Vashnava thought only, we are stuck with theses names but Guru ji takes us to right Source that is Him, if Vashnava practiced both plans, admitting there is Nirguna but there is Sarguna that can be worshiped then Gurubani detours from that thought only to Nirguna and Sarguna form is not worshipable.[/B] which definitions are even contrary to Gurbani teaching, such as [URL="http://www.sikhism.us/"]Sikh[/URL] Rehit Maryada claiming Sikhs don't believe in avtaaras, when Gurbani clearly defines [URL="http://www.sikhism.us/"]Sikh[/URL] Guru as an avtaara [B] Gurbani doesn’t say Guru Nanak was incarnation of Vishnu. That also not right because none of the Gurus said so. Compliments are distorted and called Guru Nanak God, incarnation of Vishnu. If you give quote from Gurbani, I shall happily show you what that meant in context of totality of the Shabad. Sikh Rehat maryada is not ideal for me since it has flaw any way, it should be revised time to time since it is not directed by Guru ji. So we have no disagreement on that[/B] Also, simply calling yourself doesn't mean you have the eternal and the Hindu's do not. That is really an ethnocentric philosophy of arrogance. The God of eternity belongs to every human being regardless of religion. It is no [URL="http://www.sikhism.us/"]Sikh[/URL] exclusive right to claim to have the Infinite God who is beyond birth. I [B]agree, even there are other faiths HE has given to people to get enlightened. I am not capable of worshiping every thing; I can only worship Him as creator of all. Sikhs do not claim that only Sikhi brings union with Lord and they should not being respectful to His Hukam( another concept Vashnava doesn’t have), as they are being buried under avalounche of incarnated Gods, they have to cry hard to tell the [/B][/FONT] [B]world that they only believe in Infinite beyond birth, nothing more than that. By saying so, they do not take away others right to have God. Muslims say He is in Kaba, so it be, Hindus see Him in many forms, all right.[/B] [B]Am I only right? That is not my claim. Are they wrong, I am not their judge but Gurbani says they don’t use their sight( Hindu is blind) but Gurbani also says that every one is under His ordinance, how then others can be wrong then? Obviously they are not for Sikhs as advised by Guru ji[/B] Please show me where in Gurbani Guruji adopted tenets and belief system of Islam. [B]Bhain ji, I hope, you are aware of this fact that Guru ji didn’t criticize Islam either; he only pointed out corrupt religious guides and rulers aligned with them, actually Guru goes further by telling them how to be good Muslims. In a same tune, he says to others too including Vashnava, Hindus etc. My stand is not with those who say Sikhism adopts Islam’s tenants, I think they forcibly trying to prove it just for their own agenda. Guru ji accepts their Allah as Allah who is not Vishnu or who incarnates; if Guru ji believed in Vashnava concept of Sargun from who descends as avtars, he wouldn’t say those kings were created and who are considered His incarnations, that only is pretty big stand against any prevailed philosophy. Partially Guru ji is closer to Islam’s oneness of God who doesn’t incarnate, Fifth Nanak stresses on it by repeating His being Ajooni every where in SGGS Ji. As Guru ji detours from Hinduism, he detours from Islam too by accepting His Creation a part of Him unlike Islam. So I agree on that while disagreeing on the other claim.[/B] [B]Last comments on separate state, it is all political, it has nothing to do with religion. Even if Sikhs get separate state, it will be very much corrupt one as I have seen all Sikhs in politics rarely any one follow Guru ji. Youth is being used and if you are aware of Dr Chuhan, so called founder of this moment, where did he land? There are a lot of Sikhs out there who do not support this idiotic thinking. After having said that, there are discriminating policies of central Govt. towards [/FONT][/B][B]Punjab[/FONT][/B][B] specially ( usually that thing happens with other states too if Govt. in power doesn’t represent them in any way). Preaching hatred towards any one, being Sikh, it is self inflicted disease that ends the goal of a Sikh. I must mention the role of fanatic Hindus and political parties who flame religious sentiments with many excuses in name of religion. Reactions are inevitable. If these fanatics so called Sikhs are doing that, fanatics Hindus are also in high gear to hurt the harmony most of the people want to have. Then why only one side needs to be criticized, criticize all culprits. Thanks for bearing with me. [/FONT][/B] [/QUOTE]
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Sikhism Is Not The Same As Hinduism, Islam Or Christianity Etc
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