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Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
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Sikhism A Universal Religion
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<blockquote data-quote="pk70" data-source="post: 98562" data-attributes="member: 5889"><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">Forgive me Aman Ji, I have done my search and found VSGREWALS” post faulty in many ways; hope you would not think I am picking on him, instead I feel I am participating to point out which is either incomplete or wrong</span></strong></p><p> <strong><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">Respected VSGREWAL JI,</span></strong></p><p> <strong><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">With all due respect I must say that your Gurbani quotes are not translated by keeping whole related Shabadas in mind. I doubt you worked hard to decipher what really is being said. in the Guru Vaakas This is a forum, reaction to wrong interpretation is inevitable. Here its matter of Guru Message and the way it is used, agreeing and disagreeing is not a valid refuge to deny the fact</span></strong></p><p> <strong><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'"> To prove it that Sikhism is a universal religion, the vital quotes you should have quoted, you missed so let me help here in a nutshell</span></strong></p><p> <strong><u><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">Sikhism doesn’t declare those who go astray and unfaithful that bad since they are also like this due to His Will, unlike other religions that curse them, </span></u></strong></p><p> <strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਤਿਨ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਤੂੰ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਵਿਸਰਹਿ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜਿ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਤੁਧੁ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਆਪਿ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: #AB5555"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਭੁਲਾਏ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">॥( SGGS159)[/FONT]</span></strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: black">Ŧin </span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ṯ[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ūʼn visrahi jė </span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ṯ[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">u</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ḏẖ[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> āp b</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ẖ[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ulā</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">▫[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">e.</span></strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: black">Those whom You Yourself have led astray, forget You.</span></strong></p><p> <strong><u><span style="color: black">All are from Him</span></u></strong></p><p> <strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਏਕ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: #AB5555"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨੂਰ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਤੇ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਭੁ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜਗੁ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਉਪਜਿਆ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਉਨ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਭਲੇ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕੋ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮੰਦੇ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">॥[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੧</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">॥[/FONT]</span>(SGGS 1349)</strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: black">Ėk nūr </span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ṯ[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">e sab</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ẖ[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> jag upji</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">▫[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ā ka</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">▫[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">un b</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ẖ[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ale ko man</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ḏ[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">e. ||1||</span></strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: black">From the One Light the whole world came in existence. So who is good, and who is bad? ||1||</span></strong></p><p> <strong><u><span style="color: black">Nothing is out Him, All seen is HIM</span></u></strong></p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਏਹੁ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਵਿਸੁ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸੰਸਾਰੁ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਤੁਮ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਦੇਖਦੇ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਏਹੁ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਹਰਿ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਾ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਰੂਪੁ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਹੈ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਹਰਿ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਰੂਪੁ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਦਰੀ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਆਇਆ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">॥(SGGS922)[/FONT]</span></strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: black">Ėhu vis sansār </span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ṯ[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">um </span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ḏ[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ek</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ẖ▫ḏ[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">e ehu har kā rūp hai har rūp na</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ḏ[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">rī ā</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">▫[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">i</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">▫[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ā.</span></strong></p><p> <strong></strong></p><p> <strong></strong><strong><span style="color: navy">[/FONT]</span></strong></p><p> <strong><span style="color: navy">This entire world you see is Almighty’s form, only the Almighty is seen[/FONT]</span></strong></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: navy">[/FONT]</span></strong> </p><p> <strong><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">Now I want to bring to your notice that your translation is inappropriate, it takes Guru Message to your own created “vision zone” instead of what Guru Sahiban try to say. Let’s look at them</span></strong></p><p> <strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਰਗੁਣ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਿਰਗੁਣ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਥਾਪੈ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾਉ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050">॥[/FONT]</span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਦੁਹ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਿਲਿ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਏਕੈ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕੀਨੋ</span></span> </strong><span style="color: Red"><strong><u><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਠਾਉ</span></span></u> </strong></span><strong><span style="color: Red"><span style="color: #00B050">॥[/FONT]</span></span><span style="color: #00B050"></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00B050"></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><em>Sargun (Sagun) Nirgun Thaapai Naou, Dho Mil Aykai Keeno Thaaou. </em></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00B050"></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00B050">The learned people call the Akal Purkh Seen, with attributes as well as Unseen, without attributes. Both of these features combine together in the formation of the Cosmos. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 387-1</span></strong></p><p> <strong><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">Where is the word “learned people” in the Guru Vaak? Shouldn’t it be, “Creator’s two names are established, the related and the absolute, in both together he pervades ( thao=Tikana)</span></strong></p><p> <strong>Where does Guru vaak say he is present in many physical forms and before the creation. What are you thinking? Vaak is about Him, His being “separated from His Creation” is also stressed, don’t forget that. If you keep that in mind, it will be easier to avoid adding unnecessary words. <span style="color: Red">Tho(</span>place) indicates His pervading in related form and having independent existence, Here it is very clear how He exists separately too </strong></p><p> <strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਆਪੇ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਭਨਾ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮੰਝਿ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਆਪੇ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: #AB5555"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬਾਹਰਾ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> [/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">॥[/FONT]</span>(SGGS966)</strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: black">Āpe sab</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ẖ[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">nā manj, </span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ẖ[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> āpe bāhrā.</span></strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: black">He Himself is within all, and He Himself is beyond them.</span></strong></p><p> e is present in many physical forms?</p><p><strong> Now let’s look at the following</strong></p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਰਾਜ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜੋਬਨ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪ੍ਰਭ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਤੂੰ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਧਨੀ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050">॥[/FONT]</span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਤੂੰ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਿਰਗੁਨ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਤੂੰ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਰਗੁਨੀ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050">॥[/FONT]</span><span style="color: #00B050"> </span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00B050"></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><em>Raaj Joban Prabh Toon Dhanee, Toon Nirgun Toon Sargunee.</em> </span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00B050"></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00B050">God is present in many physical forms in the Mother Nature and before the creation; It was Nirgun, unseen, formless or Nirankar. After creation, It is perceived in physical form in Nature. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 211-6</span></strong></p><p> <strong>Here again everything considered important is credited to Him, I couldn’t understand why have you let the words bury the idea. "Dhani", means Master, In Guru Vaak, you dont even mention it. It is said that the Creator is the Master of regimes (power) and the youth (symbol for new and powerful), and HE are related and absolute as well” </strong></p><p> <strong></strong></p><p> <strong></strong></p><p> <strong>Now look at the next one</strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਿਰਗੁਨੁ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਆਪਿ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਰਗੁਨੁ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਭੀ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਓਹੀ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050">॥[/FONT]</span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਲਾ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਧਾਰਿ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜਿਨਿ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਗਲੀ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮੋਹੀ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050">॥[/FONT]</span><span style="color: #00B050"></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00B050"></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><em>Nirgun Aap Sargun Bhi Ohi, Kalaa Dhaar Jin Saglee Mohee.</em></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00B050"></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00B050">God is absolute and unrelated; and is also involved and related.-----Guru Arjan, Gauri Sukhmani, AGGS, Page, 287-17</span></strong></p><p> <strong>Your translation doesn’t make any sense in context of the Guru Vaakas. In your translation, you just repeat the idea. Actually it says “The Almighty is absolute and related as well, by creating all this <u>He has fascinated all (the World</u>)” You see the difference, it’s not only about His existence but also how He is fascinating the world. You don’t mention it.</strong></p><p> <strong></strong></p><p> <strong></strong></p><p> <strong>Here is again you are over writing Guru Message</strong></p><p> <strong><span style="color: #00B050">Without selfless service, no one ever receives the fruits of their rewards. Serving the Akal Purkh is the most excellent action. -----<a href="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/guru-nanak-dev/" target="_blank"><span style="color: #00B050">Guru Nanak</span></a>, Raag Maru, AGGS, Page, 992-7</span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00B050"></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00B050"></span></strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸੇਵਾ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸੁਰਤਿ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਬਦਿ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਚਿਤੁ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਲਾਏ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050">॥[/FONT]</span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਹਉਮੈ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਾਰਿ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਦਾ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸੁਖੁ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪਾਇਆ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਾਇਆ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮੋਹੁ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਚੁਕਾਵਣਿਆ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050">॥[/FONT]</span><span style="color: #00B050"></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00B050"></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><em>Sayva Surat Sabd Chit Laa-ay, Ha-umai Maar Sadaa Sukh Paa-i-aa Maa-i-aa Moh Chukaavani-aa.</em></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00B050"></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00B050">Center your awareness on selfless service-and focus your consciousness on the Word of the Sabd. -----Guru Amar Das, Raag Majh, AGGS, Page, 110-1</span></strong></p><p> <strong>In this Guru Vaak, Guru ji is not talking about <u>selfless service</u> (he talks about it but not in this Vaak), read the whole shabad, it’s about <u>Guru Seva</u> means to follow Guru, you are over writing Guru Message to sound like a Sikh-pundit</strong></p><p> <strong>Seva(service) Whose? Guru’s, How? By following his “shabad(instructions) What happened then? Ego is eliminated; attachment of Maya is over come. <u>Where is selfless service</u>?</strong></p><p> <strong> </strong><strong>Let’s ponder over the next Guru Vaak</strong></p><p> <strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕੇਤੇ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬੰਧਨ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜੀਅ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕੇ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮੋਖ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਦੁਆਰ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050">॥[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਚਹੁ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਓਰੈ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਭੁ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕੋ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਉਪਰਿ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਚੁ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਆਚਾਰੁ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050">॥[/FONT]</span><span style="color: #00B050"></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00B050"></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><em>Kaytay BanDhan Jee-a Kay Gurmukh Mokh Du-aar, Suchoh Oorai Sabh Ko Ooper Such Aachaar.</em></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00B050"></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00B050">There are so many entanglements for the soul. Only as Guru willed do we find the Gate of Liberation. Truth is above all and above Truth is Truthful conduct. -----<a href="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/guru-nanak-dev/" target="_blank"><span style="color: #00B050">Guru Nanak</span></a>, Raag Sri, AGGS, Page, 62-11</span></strong></p><p> <strong>Like some, you are taking “Sach Achaar” as truthful living but it doesn’t fit in Guru Ideology., Achaar” here means the main goal of Saints- Naam Simran. There are many Guru Bachan defining it like this one</strong></p><p><strong>[/FONT]</strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: BLACK">ਜਿਉ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਿਉ ਰਾਖੁ ਤੂੰ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਿਲੈ <span style="color: #ab5555">ਆਚਾਰ</span>ੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥</span></span></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: BLACK">Ji▫o bẖāvai ṯi▫o rākẖ ṯūʼn har nām milai ācẖār. ||1|| rahā▫o.</span></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: BLACK">If it is Your Will, please save and protect me; please bless me with the lifestyle of the Lord's Name. ||1||Pause||</span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="color: black">Let me give you an example to support my understanding of Guru in this context. Hari Chand is well known for truthful living and charity but Guru Nanak ques</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">tions him for not understanding the Creator by Guru. If “truthful living” was considered above “the Truth/The Creator”, why would Guru ji question Hari Chand, actually he could have praised him but he points out that His virtues couldn’t help him</span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: maroon"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%B0%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%A6%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਹਰੀਚੰਦੁ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਦਾਨੁ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%B0%E0%A9%88" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਰੈ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜਸੁ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B2%E0%A9%87%E0%A8%B5%E0%A9%88" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਲੇਵੈ</span> </a>[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: maroon">॥[/FONT]</span> </strong><strong><span style="color: maroon"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AC%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬਿਨੁ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%97%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%B0" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਗੁਰ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%A4%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਅੰਤੁ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%87" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪਾਇ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A8%AD%E0%A9%87%E0%A8%B5%E0%A9%88" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਅਭੇਵੈ</span> </a>[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: maroon">॥[/FONT]</span> </strong><strong><span style="color: maroon"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਆਪਿ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AD%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%B2%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%87" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਭੁਲਾਇ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%AA%E0%A9%87" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਆਪੇ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਤਿ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A9%87%E0%A8%B5%E0%A9%88" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਦੇਵੈ</span> </a>[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: maroon">॥[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੩</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: maroon">॥[/FONT]</span> </strong></p><p> <strong>Harīcẖanḏ ḏān karai jas levai.[/FONT] </strong><strong>Bin gur anṯ na pā▫e abẖevai.[/FONT] </strong><strong>Āp bẖulā▫e āpe maṯ ḏevai. ||3||[/FONT] </strong></p><p> <strong><span style="color: navy">Hari Chand gave alms and earned renown.[/FONT]</span> </strong><strong><span style="color: navy">Without the Guru, he found not the limit of the inscrutable Lord.[/FONT]</span> </strong><strong><span style="color: navy">The Lord Himself misleads and Himself imparts understanding.[/FONT]</span> </strong></p><p> <strong><span style="color: black"> So how “Achaar” can be truthful living and above HIM? It simply means “Highest is the Creator and His praise” rests are assumptions as Guru himself clarifies about the importance of truthful living in context of HIM</span></strong></p><p> <strong><span style="color: black">Here is next one Guru Vaak that has become victim of your own thinking</span></strong></p><p> <strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਅਗਿਆਨੀ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਾਨੁਖੁ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਭਇਆ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜੋ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾਹੀ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸੋ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਲੋਰੈ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050">॥[/FONT]</span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਰੈਣਿ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਅੰਧਾਰੀ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਾਰੀਆ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਵਨ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜੁਗਤਿ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜਿਤੁ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਭੋਰੈ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050">॥[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਭ੍ਰਮਤੋ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਭ੍ਰਮਤੋ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਹਾਰਿਆ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਅਨਿਕ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬਿਧੀ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਰਿ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਟੋਰੈ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050">॥[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਹੁ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾਨਕ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਿਰਪਾ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਭਈ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਿਧਿ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮੋਰੈ</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: #00B050">॥[/FONT]</span><span style="color: #00B050"> </span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00B050"></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00B050"><em>Agiani Manukh Bhaiaa Jo Nahin So Lorai, Rain AnDhaaree Kaaree-aa Kavan Jugat Jit Bhorai, Bharmato Bharmato Haari-aa Anik BiDhee Kar Torai, Kaho <a href="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/guru-nanak-dev/" target="_blank"><span style="color: #00B050">Nanak</span></a> Kirpaa Bha-ee SaaDhsangat NiDh Morai.</em></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00B050"></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00B050">Humanity is in spiritual ignorance; people see things that do not exist. The night is dark and gloomy; how will the morning dawn? Wandering, wandering all around, I have grown weary; trying all sorts of things, I have been searching. Says <a href="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/guru-nanak-dev/" target="_blank"><span style="color: #00B050">Nanak</span></a>, He has shown mercy to me; I have found the treasure of the Sadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy.-----Guru Arjan, AGGS, Page, 212-11</span></strong></p><p> <strong> Here I am addressing two first Guru Vaakas only. In these two Guru Vaakas lack of divine knowledge is referred not spiritual ignorance, for your kind information, you and I can be spiritual but may not have divine knowledge, “lorai” means seek ( or long to)not to see as you have translated, seeing is different thing, I can see anything without participating or longing, it will do no harm; seeking creates problem in this world, second, “Hai Nahi” is also carries very deep meaning. Things exist as in Asa Dee Vaar Guru ji says” Sachet tere Khand” but now think how come these things that exist, “ Hai Nahi”, if again we go to Asaa Dee Vaar, answer lies in “ koor parja koor sabh sansaar” Guru ji calling these things koor (false)because they are bound to end, so hint is towards the Eternal(Almighty) who should be longed but people don’t, what they long for are not eternal and do not go with them..</strong></p><p> <strong>“Raen(night)” is a metaphor for life filled with ignorance, so Guru says due to life filled with ignorance, how true way of life is understood.</strong></p><p> </p><p> <strong>My humble request to you is that kindly do your home work, instead of just reading, ponder over the whole Guru Shabad before quoting in any context. No offense or no intention to put you down but I must be honest to say that your Abstracts are mired with this kind of mess I pointed out.</strong></p><p> <strong>Thanks</strong></p><p> <strong>Regards</strong></p><p> <strong>G Singh</strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pk70, post: 98562, member: 5889"] [B][FONT=Raavi]Forgive me Aman Ji, I have done my search and found VSGREWALS” post faulty in many ways; hope you would not think I am picking on him, instead I feel I am participating to point out which is either incomplete or wrong[/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Raavi]Respected VSGREWAL JI,[/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Raavi]With all due respect I must say that your Gurbani quotes are not translated by keeping whole related Shabadas in mind. I doubt you worked hard to decipher what really is being said. in the Guru Vaakas This is a forum, reaction to wrong interpretation is inevitable. Here its matter of Guru Message and the way it is used, agreeing and disagreeing is not a valid refuge to deny the fact[/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Raavi] To prove it that Sikhism is a universal religion, the vital quotes you should have quoted, you missed so let me help here in a nutshell[/FONT][/B] [B][U][FONT=Raavi]Sikhism doesn’t declare those who go astray and unfaithful that bad since they are also like this due to His Will, unlike other religions that curse them, [/FONT][/U][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਤਿਨ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਤੂੰ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਵਿਸਰਹਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਜਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਤੁਧੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਆਪਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#AB5555][FONT=Raavi]ਭੁਲਾਏ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]॥( SGGS159)[/FONT][/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=black]Ŧin [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ṯ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ūʼn visrahi jė [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ṯ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]u[/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ḏẖ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] āp b[/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ẖ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ulā[/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]▫[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]e.[/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=black]Those whom You Yourself have led astray, forget You.[/COLOR][/B] [B][U][COLOR=black]All are from Him[/COLOR][/U][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਏਕ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#AB5555][FONT=Raavi]ਨੂਰ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਤੇ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਸਭੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਜਗੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਉਪਜਿਆ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਕਉਨ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਭਲੇ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਕੋ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਮੰਦੇ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]੧[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]॥[/FONT][/COLOR](SGGS 1349) [/B][B][COLOR=black]Ėk nūr [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ṯ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]e sab[/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ẖ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] jag upji[/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]▫[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ā ka[/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]▫[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]un b[/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ẖ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ale ko man[/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ḏ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]e. ||1||[/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=black]From the One Light the whole world came in existence. So who is good, and who is bad? ||1||[/COLOR][/B] [B][U][COLOR=black]Nothing is out Him, All seen is HIM[/COLOR][/U][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਏਹੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਵਿਸੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਸੰਸਾਰੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਤੁਮ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਦੇਖਦੇ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਏਹੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਹਰਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਕਾ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਰੂਪੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਹੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਹਰਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਰੂਪੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਨਦਰੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਆਇਆ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]॥(SGGS922)[/FONT][/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=black]Ėhu vis sansār [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ṯ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]um [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ḏ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ek[/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ẖ▫ḏ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]e ehu har kā rūp hai har rūp na[/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ḏ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]rī ā[/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]▫[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]i[/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]▫[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ā.[/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=navy][/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=navy]This entire world you see is Almighty’s form, only the Almighty is seen[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=navy][/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][FONT=Raavi] [/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Raavi]Now I want to bring to your notice that your translation is inappropriate, it takes Guru Message to your own created “vision zone” instead of what Guru Sahiban try to say. Let’s look at them[/FONT][/B] [B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਸਰਗੁਣ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਨਿਰਗੁਣ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਥਾਪੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਨਾਉ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਦੁਹ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਮਿਲਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਏਕੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਕੀਨੋ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][COLOR=Red][B][U][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਠਾਉ[/FONT][/COLOR][/U][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][/COLOR][B][COLOR=Red][COLOR=#00B050]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [I]Sargun (Sagun) Nirgun Thaapai Naou, Dho Mil Aykai Keeno Thaaou. [/I] The learned people call the Akal Purkh Seen, with attributes as well as Unseen, without attributes. Both of these features combine together in the formation of the Cosmos. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 387-1[/COLOR][/B] [B][FONT=Raavi]Where is the word “learned people” in the Guru Vaak? Shouldn’t it be, “Creator’s two names are established, the related and the absolute, in both together he pervades ( thao=Tikana)[/FONT][/B] [B]Where does Guru vaak say he is present in many physical forms and before the creation. What are you thinking? Vaak is about Him, His being “separated from His Creation” is also stressed, don’t forget that. If you keep that in mind, it will be easier to avoid adding unnecessary words. [COLOR=Red]Tho([/COLOR]place) indicates His pervading in related form and having independent existence, Here it is very clear how He exists separately too [/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਆਪੇ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਸਭਨਾ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਮੰਝਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਆਪੇ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#AB5555][FONT=Raavi]ਬਾਹਰਾ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]॥[/FONT][/COLOR](SGGS966) [/B][B][COLOR=black]Āpe sab[/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ẖ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]nā manj, [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ẖ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] āpe bāhrā.[/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=black]He Himself is within all, and He Himself is beyond them.[/COLOR][/B] e is present in many physical forms? [B] Now let’s look at the following[/B] [B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਰਾਜ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਜੋਬਨ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਪ੍ਰਭ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਤੂੰ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਧਨੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਤੂੰ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਨਿਰਗੁਨ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਤੂੰ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਸਰਗੁਨੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [I]Raaj Joban Prabh Toon Dhanee, Toon Nirgun Toon Sargunee.[/I] God is present in many physical forms in the Mother Nature and before the creation; It was Nirgun, unseen, formless or Nirankar. After creation, It is perceived in physical form in Nature. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 211-6[/COLOR][/B] [B]Here again everything considered important is credited to Him, I couldn’t understand why have you let the words bury the idea. "Dhani", means Master, In Guru Vaak, you dont even mention it. It is said that the Creator is the Master of regimes (power) and the youth (symbol for new and powerful), and HE are related and absolute as well” [/B] [B]Now look at the next one[/B] [B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਨਿਰਗੁਨੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਆਪਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਸਰਗੁਨੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਭੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਓਹੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਕਲਾ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਧਾਰਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਜਿਨਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਸਗਲੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਮੋਹੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [I]Nirgun Aap Sargun Bhi Ohi, Kalaa Dhaar Jin Saglee Mohee.[/I] God is absolute and unrelated; and is also involved and related.-----Guru Arjan, Gauri Sukhmani, AGGS, Page, 287-17[/COLOR][/B] [B]Your translation doesn’t make any sense in context of the Guru Vaakas. In your translation, you just repeat the idea. Actually it says “The Almighty is absolute and related as well, by creating all this [U]He has fascinated all (the World[/U])” You see the difference, it’s not only about His existence but also how He is fascinating the world. You don’t mention it. [/B] [B]Here is again you are over writing Guru Message[/B] [B][COLOR=#00B050]Without selfless service, no one ever receives the fruits of their rewards. Serving the Akal Purkh is the most excellent action. -----[URL="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/guru-nanak-dev/"][COLOR=#00B050]Guru Nanak[/COLOR][/URL], Raag Maru, AGGS, Page, 992-7 [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਸੇਵਾ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਸੁਰਤਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਸਬਦਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਚਿਤੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਲਾਏ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਹਉਮੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਮਾਰਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਸਦਾ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਸੁਖੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਪਾਇਆ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਮਾਇਆ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਮੋਹੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਚੁਕਾਵਣਿਆ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [I]Sayva Surat Sabd Chit Laa-ay, Ha-umai Maar Sadaa Sukh Paa-i-aa Maa-i-aa Moh Chukaavani-aa.[/I] Center your awareness on selfless service-and focus your consciousness on the Word of the Sabd. -----Guru Amar Das, Raag Majh, AGGS, Page, 110-1[/COLOR][/B] [B]In this Guru Vaak, Guru ji is not talking about [U]selfless service[/U] (he talks about it but not in this Vaak), read the whole shabad, it’s about [U]Guru Seva[/U] means to follow Guru, you are over writing Guru Message to sound like a Sikh-pundit[/B] [B]Seva(service) Whose? Guru’s, How? By following his “shabad(instructions) What happened then? Ego is eliminated; attachment of Maya is over come. [U]Where is selfless service[/U]?[/B] [B] [/B][B]Let’s ponder over the next Guru Vaak[/B] [B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਕੇਤੇ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਬੰਧਨ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਜੀਅ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਕੇ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਮੋਖ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਦੁਆਰ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਸਚਹੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਓਰੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਸਭੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਕੋ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਉਪਰਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਸਚੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਆਚਾਰੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [I]Kaytay BanDhan Jee-a Kay Gurmukh Mokh Du-aar, Suchoh Oorai Sabh Ko Ooper Such Aachaar.[/I] There are so many entanglements for the soul. Only as Guru willed do we find the Gate of Liberation. Truth is above all and above Truth is Truthful conduct. -----[URL="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/guru-nanak-dev/"][COLOR=#00B050]Guru Nanak[/COLOR][/URL], Raag Sri, AGGS, Page, 62-11[/COLOR][/B] [B]Like some, you are taking “Sach Achaar” as truthful living but it doesn’t fit in Guru Ideology., Achaar” here means the main goal of Saints- Naam Simran. There are many Guru Bachan defining it like this one [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=AnmolUniPr][SIZE=1][COLOR=BLACK]ਜਿਉ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਿਉ ਰਾਖੁ ਤੂੰ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਿਲੈ [COLOR=#ab5555]ਆਚਾਰ[/COLOR]ੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=1][COLOR=BLACK]Ji▫o bẖāvai ṯi▫o rākẖ ṯūʼn har nām milai ācẖār. ||1|| rahā▫o.[/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=1][COLOR=BLACK]If it is Your Will, please save and protect me; please bless me with the lifestyle of the Lord's Name. ||1||Pause||[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] [FONT=AnmolUniPr][SIZE=1][COLOR=BLACK][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][B][COLOR=black]Let me give you an example to support my understanding of Guru in this context. Hari Chand is well known for truthful living and charity but Guru Nanak ques[/COLOR][/B][FONT=AnmolUniPr][SIZE=1][COLOR=BLACK][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][B][COLOR=black]tions him for not understanding the Creator by Guru. If “truthful living” was considered above “the Truth/The Creator”, why would Guru ji question Hari Chand, actually he could have praised him but he points out that His virtues couldn’t help him[/COLOR][/B] [FONT=AnmolUniPr][SIZE=1][COLOR=BLACK][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=1][COLOR=BLACK][/COLOR][/SIZE][B][COLOR=maroon][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%B0%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%A6%E0%A9%81"][FONT=Raavi]ਹਰੀਚੰਦੁ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%81"][FONT=Raavi]ਦਾਨੁ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%B0%E0%A9%88"][FONT=Raavi]ਕਰੈ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%81"][FONT=Raavi]ਜਸੁ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B2%E0%A9%87%E0%A8%B5%E0%A9%88"][FONT=Raavi]ਲੇਵੈ[/FONT] [/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=maroon]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=maroon][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AC%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%81"][FONT=Raavi]ਬਿਨੁ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%97%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%B0"][FONT=Raavi]ਗੁਰ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%A4%E0%A9%81"][FONT=Raavi]ਅੰਤੁ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8"][FONT=Raavi]ਨ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%87"][FONT=Raavi]ਪਾਇ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A8%AD%E0%A9%87%E0%A8%B5%E0%A9%88"][FONT=Raavi]ਅਭੇਵੈ[/FONT] [/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=maroon]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=maroon][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BF"][FONT=Raavi]ਆਪਿ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AD%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%B2%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%87"][FONT=Raavi]ਭੁਲਾਇ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%AA%E0%A9%87"][FONT=Raavi]ਆਪੇ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BF"][FONT=Raavi]ਮਤਿ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A9%87%E0%A8%B5%E0%A9%88"][FONT=Raavi]ਦੇਵੈ[/FONT] [/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=maroon]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=maroon][FONT=Raavi]੩[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=maroon]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] [/B] [B]Harīcẖanḏ ḏān karai jas levai.[/FONT] [/B][B]Bin gur anṯ na pā▫e abẖevai.[/FONT] [/B][B]Āp bẖulā▫e āpe maṯ ḏevai. ||3||[/FONT] [/B] [B][COLOR=navy]Hari Chand gave alms and earned renown.[/FONT][/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=navy]Without the Guru, he found not the limit of the inscrutable Lord.[/FONT][/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=navy]The Lord Himself misleads and Himself imparts understanding.[/FONT][/COLOR] [/B] [B][COLOR=black] So how “Achaar” can be truthful living and above HIM? It simply means “Highest is the Creator and His praise” rests are assumptions as Guru himself clarifies about the importance of truthful living in context of HIM[/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=black]Here is next one Guru Vaak that has become victim of your own thinking[/COLOR][/B][COLOR=black][/COLOR] [B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਅਗਿਆਨੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਮਾਨੁਖੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਭਇਆ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਜੋ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਨਾਹੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਸੋ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਲੋਰੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਰੈਣਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਅੰਧਾਰੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਕਾਰੀਆ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਕਵਨ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਜੁਗਤਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਜਿਤੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਭੋਰੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਭ੍ਰਮਤੋ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਭ੍ਰਮਤੋ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਹਾਰਿਆ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਅਨਿਕ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਬਿਧੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਕਰਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਟੋਰੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਕਹੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਨਾਨਕ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਕਿਰਪਾ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਭਈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਨਿਧਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050][FONT=Raavi]ਮੋਰੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#00B050]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#00B050] [I]Agiani Manukh Bhaiaa Jo Nahin So Lorai, Rain AnDhaaree Kaaree-aa Kavan Jugat Jit Bhorai, Bharmato Bharmato Haari-aa Anik BiDhee Kar Torai, Kaho [URL="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/guru-nanak-dev/"][COLOR=#00B050]Nanak[/COLOR][/URL] Kirpaa Bha-ee SaaDhsangat NiDh Morai.[/I] Humanity is in spiritual ignorance; people see things that do not exist. The night is dark and gloomy; how will the morning dawn? Wandering, wandering all around, I have grown weary; trying all sorts of things, I have been searching. Says [URL="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/guru-nanak-dev/"][COLOR=#00B050]Nanak[/COLOR][/URL], He has shown mercy to me; I have found the treasure of the Sadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy.-----Guru Arjan, AGGS, Page, 212-11[/COLOR][/B] [B] Here I am addressing two first Guru Vaakas only. In these two Guru Vaakas lack of divine knowledge is referred not spiritual ignorance, for your kind information, you and I can be spiritual but may not have divine knowledge, “lorai” means seek ( or long to)not to see as you have translated, seeing is different thing, I can see anything without participating or longing, it will do no harm; seeking creates problem in this world, second, “Hai Nahi” is also carries very deep meaning. Things exist as in Asa Dee Vaar Guru ji says” Sachet tere Khand” but now think how come these things that exist, “ Hai Nahi”, if again we go to Asaa Dee Vaar, answer lies in “ koor parja koor sabh sansaar” Guru ji calling these things koor (false)because they are bound to end, so hint is towards the Eternal(Almighty) who should be longed but people don’t, what they long for are not eternal and do not go with them..[/B] [B]“Raen(night)” is a metaphor for life filled with ignorance, so Guru says due to life filled with ignorance, how true way of life is understood.[/B] [B]My humble request to you is that kindly do your home work, instead of just reading, ponder over the whole Guru Shabad before quoting in any context. No offense or no intention to put you down but I must be honest to say that your Abstracts are mired with this kind of mess I pointed out.[/B] [B]Thanks[/B] [B]Regards[/B] [B]G Singh[/B] [/QUOTE]
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