Shri Dasam Granth Sahib Does Not Support Manusamriti
- Thread starter vijaydeep Singh
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- Feb 7, 2008
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He wrote that dasam granth is written by some Hindu most probably named atma ram. Being questioned how he arrived at it. He said that this name comes in gyan probodh.
On verification it was found that in that particular verse Atma was soul and ram was Akal mpurakh. That is what happens when people dabble in a field without knowing the contents.
- Feb 7, 2008
- 529
- 83
Aad002 ji
You have tons of questions on dasam granth. Have you read it?
You have tons of questions on dasam granth. Have you read it?
This must be it -- what source did you use to identify the Hindu Atma Ram or are you also saying that Atma Ram is a yet another pen name for Akaal Purakh?
- Feb 7, 2008
- 529
- 83
Did i say that? You need not be sarcastic while discussing bani. You do not know abc of dasam granth and you are putting some funny questions. had you raed the composition you would not ahve put this silly question.
- Feb 7, 2008
- 529
- 83
I hope i am not talking to a teenager. Where is the answer of my question?
- Feb 7, 2008
- 529
- 83
Waht is Heh heh ? Do you do he he when you read Dasam granth. had you read it you would have known what i am talking about.
Inder ji
I have never said Heh Heh whilst reading Dasam Granth. But I must admit that there have been times when Guru Nanak said something that made me roar with laughter. Because still today his ability to hit the nail on the head regarding hypocrisy is as fresh and pure as it was 500 years ago.
I did answer your quesiton -- in fact I read Dsama Granth often - and champion any serious effort to conduct serious study of Dasam Granth. There are entire sections of Dasam Granth that have not been explored in depth here on the forum, with a few exceptions.
You have not answered many of my questions have you? But what difference does it make? Let's go back to the topic: Is Shiaam (siaam) a poet who penned verses in Dasam Granth, or is Shiaam a reference to Akaal Purakh?
I have never said Heh Heh whilst reading Dasam Granth. But I must admit that there have been times when Guru Nanak said something that made me roar with laughter. Because still today his ability to hit the nail on the head regarding hypocrisy is as fresh and pure as it was 500 years ago.
I did answer your quesiton -- in fact I read Dsama Granth often - and champion any serious effort to conduct serious study of Dasam Granth. There are entire sections of Dasam Granth that have not been explored in depth here on the forum, with a few exceptions.
You have not answered many of my questions have you? But what difference does it make? Let's go back to the topic: Is Shiaam (siaam) a poet who penned verses in Dasam Granth, or is Shiaam a reference to Akaal Purakh?
vijaydeep Singh
SPNer
Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si
Gurfateh
There many things in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which may not be called "simple". Things weather "simple" or not depend upon the spiritual and not intellectual level of the person.
ਆਸਾ ॥
आसा ॥
Āsā.
Aasaa:
ਫੀਲੁ ਰਬਾਬੀ ਬਲਦੁ ਪਖਾਵਜ ਕਊਆ ਤਾਲ ਬਜਾਵੈ ॥
फीलु रबाबी बलदु पखावज कऊआ ताल बजावै ॥
Fīl rabābī balaḏ pakẖāvaj ka▫ū▫ā ṯāl bajāvai.
The elephant is the guitar player, the ox is the drummer, and the crow plays the cymbals.
ਪਹਿਰਿ ਚੋਲਨਾ ਗਦਹਾ ਨਾਚੈ ਭੈਸਾ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰਾਵੈ ॥੧॥
पहिरि चोलना गदहा नाचै भैसा भगति करावै ॥१॥
Pahir cẖolnā gaḏhā nācẖai bẖaisā bẖagaṯ karāvai. ||1||
Putting on the skirt, the donkey dances around, and the water buffalo performs devotional worship. ||1||
ਰਾਜਾ ਰਾਮ ਕਕਰੀਆ ਬਰੇ ਪਕਾਏ ॥
राजा राम ककरीआ बरे पकाए ॥
Rājā rām kakrī▫ā bare pakā▫e.
The Lord, the King, has cooked the cakes of ice,
ਕਿਨੈ ਬੂਝਨਹਾਰੈ ਖਾਏ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
किनै बूझनहारै खाए ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Kinai būjẖanhārai kẖā▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o.
but only the rare man of understanding eats them. ||1||Pause||
ਬੈਠਿ ਸਿੰਘੁ ਘਰਿ ਪਾਨ ਲਗਾਵੈ ਘੀਸ ਗਲਉਰੇ ਲਿਆਵੈ ॥
बैठि सिंघु घरि पान लगावै घीस गलउरे लिआवै ॥
Baiṯẖ singẖ gẖar pān lagāvai gẖīs gal▫ure li▫āvai.
Sitting in his den, the lion prepares the betel leaves, and the muskrat brings the betel nuts.
ਘਰਿ ਘਰਿ ਮੁਸਰੀ ਮੰਗਲੁ ਗਾਵਹਿ ਕਛੂਆ ਸੰਖੁ ਬਜਾਵੈ ॥੨॥
घरि घरि मुसरी मंगलु गावहि कछूआ संखु बजावै ॥२॥
Gẖar gẖar musrī mangal gāvahi kacẖẖū▫ā sankẖ bajāvai. ||2||
Going from house to house, the mouse sings the songs of joy, and the turtle blows on the conch-shell. ||2||
ਬੰਸ ਕੋ ਪੂਤੁ ਬੀਆਹਨ ਚਲਿਆ ਸੁਇਨੇ ਮੰਡਪ ਛਾਏ ॥
बंस को पूतु बीआहन चलिआ सुइने मंडप छाए ॥
Bans ko pūṯ bī▫āhan cẖali▫ā su▫ine mandap cẖẖā▫e.
The son of the sterile woman goes to get married, and the golden canopy is spread out for him.
ਰੂਪ ਕੰਨਿਆ ਸੁੰਦਰਿ ਬੇਧੀ ਸਸੈ ਸਿੰਘ ਗੁਨ ਗਾਏ ॥੩॥
रूप कंनिआ सुंदरि बेधी ससै सिंघ गुन गाए ॥३॥
Rūp kanniā sunḏar beḏẖī sasai singẖ gun gā▫e. ||3||
He marries a beautiful and enticing young woman; the rabbit and the lion sing their praises. ||3||
ਕਹਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਸੁਨਹੁ ਰੇ ਸੰਤਹੁ ਕੀਟੀ ਪਰਬਤੁ ਖਾਇਆ ॥
कहत कबीर सुनहु रे संतहु कीटी परबतु खाइआ ॥
Kahaṯ Kabīr sunhu re sanṯahu kītī parbaṯ kẖā▫i▫ā.
Says Kabeer, listen, O Saints - the ant has eaten the mountain.
ਕਛੂਆ ਕਹੈ ਅੰਗਾਰ ਭਿ ਲੋਰਉ ਲੂਕੀ ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਨਾਇਆ ॥੪॥੬॥
कछूआ कहै अंगार भि लोरउ लूकी सबदु सुनाइआ ॥४॥६॥
Kacẖẖū▫ā kahai angār bẖė lora▫o lūkī sabaḏ sunā▫i▫ā. ||4||6||
The turtle says, "I need a burning coal, also". Listen to this mystery of the Shabad. ||4||6||
(Ang 477)
ਕਬੀਰ ਏਕ ਮਰੰਤੇ ਦੁਇ ਮੂਏ ਦੋਇ ਮਰੰਤਹ ਚਾਰਿ ॥
कबीर एक मरंते दुइ मूए दोइ मरंतह चारि ॥
Kabīr ek maranṯe ḏu▫e mū▫e ḏo▫e maranṯah cẖār.
Kabeer, when one died, two were dead. When two died, four were dead.
ਚਾਰਿ ਮਰੰਤਹ ਛਹ ਮੂਏ ਚਾਰਿ ਪੁਰਖ ਦੁਇ ਨਾਰਿ ॥੯੧॥
चारि मरंतह छह मूए चारि पुरख दुइ नारि ॥९१॥
Cẖār maranṯah cẖẖah mū▫e cẖār purakẖ ḏu▫e nār. ||91||
When four died, six were dead, four males and two females. ||91||
(Ang 1369)
Coming to signature of Tenth Master or previous master. Mahala is from Halol ie palace in Arebic, so From Palace ie Akal to a particular human form.
While Shri Mukhvak Patshahi 10 means that from the respect leader/important(Mukh) words to emperorship in Tenth.
So only repetition of the fact that no where ever is Nanak is used as a signature in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji also. There Nanak is one who is addressed ie the Second person. Or Nanak is told to say such thing in first person.
ਮਃ ੧ ॥
मः १ ॥
Mėhlā 1.
First Mehl
ਹਕੁ ਪਰਾਇਆ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਉਸੁ ਸੂਅਰ ਉਸੁ ਗਾਇ ॥
हकु पराइआ नानका उसु सूअर उसु गाइ ॥
Hak parā▫i▫ā nānkā us sū▫ar us gā▫e.
: To take what rightfully belongs to another, is like a Muslim eating pork, or a Hindu eating beef.
ਗੁਰੁ ਪੀਰੁ ਹਾਮਾ ਤਾ ਭਰੇ ਜਾ ਮੁਰਦਾਰੁ ਨ ਖਾਇ ॥
गुरु पीरु हामा ता भरे जा मुरदारु न खाइ ॥
Gur pīr hāmā ṯā bẖare jā murḏār na kẖā▫e.
Our Guru, our Spiritual Guide, stands by us, if we do not eat those carcasses.
ਗਲੀ ਭਿਸਤਿ ਨ ਜਾਈਐ ਛੁਟੈ ਸਚੁ ਕਮਾਇ ॥
गली भिसति न जाईऐ छुटै सचु कमाइ ॥
Galī bẖisaṯ na jā▫ī▫ai cẖẖutai sacẖ kamā▫e.
By mere talk, people do not earn passage to Heaven. Salvation comes only from the practice of Truth.
ਮਾਰਣ ਪਾਹਿ ਹਰਾਮ ਮਹਿ ਹੋਇ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
मारण पाहि हराम महि होइ हलालु न जाइ ॥
Māraṇ pāhi harām mėh ho▫e halāl na jā▫e.
By adding spices to forbidden foods, they are not made acceptable.
ਨਾਨਕ ਗਲੀ ਕੂੜੀਈ ਕੂੜੋ ਪਲੈ ਪਾਇ ॥੨॥
नानक गली कूड़ीई कूड़ो पलै पाइ ॥२॥
Nānak galī kūṛī▫ī kūṛo palai pā▫e. ||2||
O Nanak, from false talk, only falsehood is obtained. ||2||
(Ang 141)
Here we find that it could be not something said by Nanak but some thing said to Nanak very clearly.
We have never thought Bani to be understood with Semitic outlook of God talking to Human but often restricted ourself to Hindu thoughts of holy men saying some thing. Gad speaks to Tenth Master in Vachitar Natak Sahib, we mistake it often for previous birth while it is change of life within this birth.
There birth in Patna Sahib, life at Anandpur Sahib and stay at Paunta Sahib all is given.
Date and place for the works also tell the time and place where Guru were there.
Gurfateh
There many things in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which may not be called "simple". Things weather "simple" or not depend upon the spiritual and not intellectual level of the person.
ਆਸਾ ॥
आसा ॥
Āsā.
Aasaa:
ਫੀਲੁ ਰਬਾਬੀ ਬਲਦੁ ਪਖਾਵਜ ਕਊਆ ਤਾਲ ਬਜਾਵੈ ॥
फीलु रबाबी बलदु पखावज कऊआ ताल बजावै ॥
Fīl rabābī balaḏ pakẖāvaj ka▫ū▫ā ṯāl bajāvai.
The elephant is the guitar player, the ox is the drummer, and the crow plays the cymbals.
ਪਹਿਰਿ ਚੋਲਨਾ ਗਦਹਾ ਨਾਚੈ ਭੈਸਾ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰਾਵੈ ॥੧॥
पहिरि चोलना गदहा नाचै भैसा भगति करावै ॥१॥
Pahir cẖolnā gaḏhā nācẖai bẖaisā bẖagaṯ karāvai. ||1||
Putting on the skirt, the donkey dances around, and the water buffalo performs devotional worship. ||1||
ਰਾਜਾ ਰਾਮ ਕਕਰੀਆ ਬਰੇ ਪਕਾਏ ॥
राजा राम ककरीआ बरे पकाए ॥
Rājā rām kakrī▫ā bare pakā▫e.
The Lord, the King, has cooked the cakes of ice,
ਕਿਨੈ ਬੂਝਨਹਾਰੈ ਖਾਏ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
किनै बूझनहारै खाए ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Kinai būjẖanhārai kẖā▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o.
but only the rare man of understanding eats them. ||1||Pause||
ਬੈਠਿ ਸਿੰਘੁ ਘਰਿ ਪਾਨ ਲਗਾਵੈ ਘੀਸ ਗਲਉਰੇ ਲਿਆਵੈ ॥
बैठि सिंघु घरि पान लगावै घीस गलउरे लिआवै ॥
Baiṯẖ singẖ gẖar pān lagāvai gẖīs gal▫ure li▫āvai.
Sitting in his den, the lion prepares the betel leaves, and the muskrat brings the betel nuts.
ਘਰਿ ਘਰਿ ਮੁਸਰੀ ਮੰਗਲੁ ਗਾਵਹਿ ਕਛੂਆ ਸੰਖੁ ਬਜਾਵੈ ॥੨॥
घरि घरि मुसरी मंगलु गावहि कछूआ संखु बजावै ॥२॥
Gẖar gẖar musrī mangal gāvahi kacẖẖū▫ā sankẖ bajāvai. ||2||
Going from house to house, the mouse sings the songs of joy, and the turtle blows on the conch-shell. ||2||
ਬੰਸ ਕੋ ਪੂਤੁ ਬੀਆਹਨ ਚਲਿਆ ਸੁਇਨੇ ਮੰਡਪ ਛਾਏ ॥
बंस को पूतु बीआहन चलिआ सुइने मंडप छाए ॥
Bans ko pūṯ bī▫āhan cẖali▫ā su▫ine mandap cẖẖā▫e.
The son of the sterile woman goes to get married, and the golden canopy is spread out for him.
ਰੂਪ ਕੰਨਿਆ ਸੁੰਦਰਿ ਬੇਧੀ ਸਸੈ ਸਿੰਘ ਗੁਨ ਗਾਏ ॥੩॥
रूप कंनिआ सुंदरि बेधी ससै सिंघ गुन गाए ॥३॥
Rūp kanniā sunḏar beḏẖī sasai singẖ gun gā▫e. ||3||
He marries a beautiful and enticing young woman; the rabbit and the lion sing their praises. ||3||
ਕਹਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਸੁਨਹੁ ਰੇ ਸੰਤਹੁ ਕੀਟੀ ਪਰਬਤੁ ਖਾਇਆ ॥
कहत कबीर सुनहु रे संतहु कीटी परबतु खाइआ ॥
Kahaṯ Kabīr sunhu re sanṯahu kītī parbaṯ kẖā▫i▫ā.
Says Kabeer, listen, O Saints - the ant has eaten the mountain.
ਕਛੂਆ ਕਹੈ ਅੰਗਾਰ ਭਿ ਲੋਰਉ ਲੂਕੀ ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਨਾਇਆ ॥੪॥੬॥
कछूआ कहै अंगार भि लोरउ लूकी सबदु सुनाइआ ॥४॥६॥
Kacẖẖū▫ā kahai angār bẖė lora▫o lūkī sabaḏ sunā▫i▫ā. ||4||6||
The turtle says, "I need a burning coal, also". Listen to this mystery of the Shabad. ||4||6||
(Ang 477)
ਕਬੀਰ ਏਕ ਮਰੰਤੇ ਦੁਇ ਮੂਏ ਦੋਇ ਮਰੰਤਹ ਚਾਰਿ ॥
कबीर एक मरंते दुइ मूए दोइ मरंतह चारि ॥
Kabīr ek maranṯe ḏu▫e mū▫e ḏo▫e maranṯah cẖār.
Kabeer, when one died, two were dead. When two died, four were dead.
ਚਾਰਿ ਮਰੰਤਹ ਛਹ ਮੂਏ ਚਾਰਿ ਪੁਰਖ ਦੁਇ ਨਾਰਿ ॥੯੧॥
चारि मरंतह छह मूए चारि पुरख दुइ नारि ॥९१॥
Cẖār maranṯah cẖẖah mū▫e cẖār purakẖ ḏu▫e nār. ||91||
When four died, six were dead, four males and two females. ||91||
(Ang 1369)
Coming to signature of Tenth Master or previous master. Mahala is from Halol ie palace in Arebic, so From Palace ie Akal to a particular human form.
While Shri Mukhvak Patshahi 10 means that from the respect leader/important(Mukh) words to emperorship in Tenth.
So only repetition of the fact that no where ever is Nanak is used as a signature in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji also. There Nanak is one who is addressed ie the Second person. Or Nanak is told to say such thing in first person.
ਮਃ ੧ ॥
मः १ ॥
Mėhlā 1.
First Mehl
ਹਕੁ ਪਰਾਇਆ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਉਸੁ ਸੂਅਰ ਉਸੁ ਗਾਇ ॥
हकु पराइआ नानका उसु सूअर उसु गाइ ॥
Hak parā▫i▫ā nānkā us sū▫ar us gā▫e.
: To take what rightfully belongs to another, is like a Muslim eating pork, or a Hindu eating beef.
ਗੁਰੁ ਪੀਰੁ ਹਾਮਾ ਤਾ ਭਰੇ ਜਾ ਮੁਰਦਾਰੁ ਨ ਖਾਇ ॥
गुरु पीरु हामा ता भरे जा मुरदारु न खाइ ॥
Gur pīr hāmā ṯā bẖare jā murḏār na kẖā▫e.
Our Guru, our Spiritual Guide, stands by us, if we do not eat those carcasses.
ਗਲੀ ਭਿਸਤਿ ਨ ਜਾਈਐ ਛੁਟੈ ਸਚੁ ਕਮਾਇ ॥
गली भिसति न जाईऐ छुटै सचु कमाइ ॥
Galī bẖisaṯ na jā▫ī▫ai cẖẖutai sacẖ kamā▫e.
By mere talk, people do not earn passage to Heaven. Salvation comes only from the practice of Truth.
ਮਾਰਣ ਪਾਹਿ ਹਰਾਮ ਮਹਿ ਹੋਇ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
मारण पाहि हराम महि होइ हलालु न जाइ ॥
Māraṇ pāhi harām mėh ho▫e halāl na jā▫e.
By adding spices to forbidden foods, they are not made acceptable.
ਨਾਨਕ ਗਲੀ ਕੂੜੀਈ ਕੂੜੋ ਪਲੈ ਪਾਇ ॥੨॥
नानक गली कूड़ीई कूड़ो पलै पाइ ॥२॥
Nānak galī kūṛī▫ī kūṛo palai pā▫e. ||2||
O Nanak, from false talk, only falsehood is obtained. ||2||
(Ang 141)
Here we find that it could be not something said by Nanak but some thing said to Nanak very clearly.
We have never thought Bani to be understood with Semitic outlook of God talking to Human but often restricted ourself to Hindu thoughts of holy men saying some thing. Gad speaks to Tenth Master in Vachitar Natak Sahib, we mistake it often for previous birth while it is change of life within this birth.
There birth in Patna Sahib, life at Anandpur Sahib and stay at Paunta Sahib all is given.
Date and place for the works also tell the time and place where Guru were there.
Last edited by a moderator:
vijaydeep Singh
SPNer
Gurfateh
something about Mr Ghugga, he is from Mavi village, and related to HS Pannu. Two sources have told das that he misbehaved with his female relative, who he should have deemed as sister.
If some one has more info, then could be given in here.
As per Dr Anokh Singh Ji, Ghugga Sahib, visited Canada on diplomatic Visa by Government of India.
Presently das is not in position to carry out any investigation for at least 5 years from now about any link with GOI and Mr Ghugga.
But after reading work of Mr Ambala regarding Shri Dasham Granth Sahib, there were traces of professional disinformation used in propaganda warfare.
We see the history of These so called reformers. Since British rulers of Sikhs to present day seculars rulers of Sikhs, Always they are found siding with the ruling government.
There were three cases which das himself took part.
1. CBI's clean chit to 84 accused inspite of ample evidence and witness.
2. Sirsa Dera episode.
3.Taliban puting Jazia on Sikhs in Pakistan.
There champions of reform were no where to be seen. while if they were to be called To slander some old Sikh customs, they would have given 101% to prove it Hindu first and then to destroy it. By making each Things of Sikhs as Hindu and then destroying it. Further keep on doing it till Sikhism is finished.
Most missionaries who are old timers some time see them and feel being hijacked by anti Sikhs within their own home.
God Bless missionary fraternity.
something about Mr Ghugga, he is from Mavi village, and related to HS Pannu. Two sources have told das that he misbehaved with his female relative, who he should have deemed as sister.
If some one has more info, then could be given in here.
As per Dr Anokh Singh Ji, Ghugga Sahib, visited Canada on diplomatic Visa by Government of India.
Presently das is not in position to carry out any investigation for at least 5 years from now about any link with GOI and Mr Ghugga.
But after reading work of Mr Ambala regarding Shri Dasham Granth Sahib, there were traces of professional disinformation used in propaganda warfare.
We see the history of These so called reformers. Since British rulers of Sikhs to present day seculars rulers of Sikhs, Always they are found siding with the ruling government.
There were three cases which das himself took part.
1. CBI's clean chit to 84 accused inspite of ample evidence and witness.
2. Sirsa Dera episode.
3.Taliban puting Jazia on Sikhs in Pakistan.
There champions of reform were no where to be seen. while if they were to be called To slander some old Sikh customs, they would have given 101% to prove it Hindu first and then to destroy it. By making each Things of Sikhs as Hindu and then destroying it. Further keep on doing it till Sikhism is finished.
Most missionaries who are old timers some time see them and feel being hijacked by anti Sikhs within their own home.
God Bless missionary fraternity.
- Feb 7, 2008
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This question has been answered. It is both. You have to see the context.
- Feb 7, 2008
- 529
- 83
aad ji
have you read this
sAwm suMdr qij nId ikau AweI ] (745-2, sUhI, mÚ 5)
si-aam sundar taj need ki-o aa-ee.
Forsaking the Beautiful Lord, how can they go to sleep?
SGGS ji
have you read this
sAwm suMdr qij nId ikau AweI ] (745-2, sUhI, mÚ 5)
si-aam sundar taj need ki-o aa-ee.
Forsaking the Beautiful Lord, how can they go to sleep?
SGGS ji
- Feb 7, 2008
- 529
- 83
Vijaydeep singh ji
I know this man Ghagha. he is from Ghagha village. DELETED as Personal Attack and irrelevant.
Last edited by a moderator:
Who are Kala Afghana, Ghagga etc?
Are they men of high spiritual accomplishments, i.e. brahmgianis?
These fellows have lived their entire lives doing what ever it is they do, and now that they have some time on their hands, they have become 'scholars' and 'professors'.
what a joke.
how anybody can take these guys seriously, over say the knowledge possessed about Dasam Granth by Great Souls such as Sant Maskeen ji, Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwale etc., is beyond me.
oh well, let these guys and their lackeys preach their ill-informed views. even dogs get tired of barking after some time.
Are they men of high spiritual accomplishments, i.e. brahmgianis?
These fellows have lived their entire lives doing what ever it is they do, and now that they have some time on their hands, they have become 'scholars' and 'professors'.
what a joke.
how anybody can take these guys seriously, over say the knowledge possessed about Dasam Granth by Great Souls such as Sant Maskeen ji, Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwale etc., is beyond me.
oh well, let these guys and their lackeys preach their ill-informed views. even dogs get tired of barking after some time.
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