☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Gurmat Vichaar
Gurmat Vichar - Discussions
Serving A True Guru
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Nirmaljot Baidwan" data-source="post: 143072" data-attributes="member: 14498"><p>NOW I COME TO THE MAIN TOPIC OF THE THREAD</p><p> I put forward some questions and spnadmin ji requestioned those questions. I’d like to discuss my views with an open mind as suggested by Ambarsaria ji.</p><p> </p><p> 1st Ques- How do you define True Guru?</p><p> Ans- True guru is the one who proscribes or prohibits his follower or we can say sikhs from mundane deeds or mundane affairs or rituals because a true guru tells us that these mundane deeds or rituals are not the right path to salvation or merging with the almighty. Guru sahib has told us in SGGS that the true teerath or srovar(holy pond) is within us, inside us & not anywhere else.</p><p> A true guru will never tell us to be involved in rituals or mundane affairs . He will not tell us stories, he will tell us the truth, he will only speak about the truth, rather he’ll show you the truth. Is there any technique that guru will tell us to merge with him ??? Infact yes there must be a technique , that’s why guru nanak dev ji said in SGGS on pg 58</p><p> <span style="color: #000081"><span style="font-family: 'MSTT31c3cb00'">ll</span></span><span style="color: #000081"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੪</span></span><span style="color: #000081"><span style="font-family: 'MSTT31c3cb00'">ll</span></span><span style="color: #000081"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'"> ਹਉ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਛਉ ਆਪ੍ਨੇ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਛ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਉ </span></span></p><p> <span style="color: #000081"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਬਦਿ ਸਲਾਹੀ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਹਉਮੈ ਦੁਖੁ ਜਲਿ ਜਾਓ</span></span></p><p> <span style="color: #000081"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਹਜੇ ਹੋਇ ਮਿਲਾਵੜਾ ਸਾਚੇ ਸਾਚਿ ਮਿਲਾਓ </span></span><span style="color: #000081"><span style="font-family: 'MSTT31c3cb00'">ll</span></span><span style="color: #000081"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੫</span></span><span style="color: #000081"><span style="font-family: 'MSTT31c3cb00'">ll</span></span></p><p> <span style="color: black">This is the verse between the number locks 4 & 5 of the shabad of Sri guru nanak dev ji. Guru sahib clearly tells us that “I ASKED MY GURU & THEN I STARTED TO WORK ON THE PATH AS TOLD BY MY GURU” . Guru sahib in other two lines of the verse tells us that after asking my guru I started to n the path of shabad & this destroyed my ego & after that gradually the true guru (</span><span style="color: #000081"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਾਚੇ</span></span><span style="color: black">) helped me meet the truth (</span><span style="color: #000081"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਾਚਿ</span></span><span style="color: black">). So its with the grace of true guru Guru Nanak met the truth , Guru Nanak who was himself SHABD SAROOP(form of shabd)needed a true guru, then who are we , who can meet the truth on our own??? </span></p><p> </p><p> <span style="color: black">One more interesting point here from this shabad is that Guru Nanak Dev Ji had a guru but there was a lot of ambiguity as to who was his guru. But this ambiguity doesn’t change the fact that We need a true guru.</span></p><p> </p><p> <span style="color: black">INTERESTINGLY I was further reading SGGS and I found another Shabad where Guru nanak talked about his Guru And his guru’s grace. On pg 14th Of SGGS</span></p><p> </p><p> <span style="color: #000081"><span style="font-family: 'MSTT31c3cb00'">ll</span></span><span style="color: #000081"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'"> ਮੋਤੀ ਤ ਮੰਦਰ ਊਸਰਹਿ ਰਤਨੀ ਤ ਹੋਹਿ </span></span><span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜੜਾਉ</span></span><span style="color: #1F497D">ll</span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'"> </span></span> </p><p> <span style="color: #000081"><span style="font-family: 'MSTT31c3cb00'">ll</span></span><span style="color: #000081"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਸਤੂਰਿ ਕੁੰਗੂ ਅਗਰਿ ਚੰਦਨਿ ਲੀਪਿ ਆਵੈ ਚਾਉ </span></span><span style="color: #000081"><span style="font-family: 'MSTT31c3cb00'">ll</span></span></p><p> <span style="color: #000081"><span style="font-family: 'MSTT31c3cb00'">ll</span></span><span style="color: #000081"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਤ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਉ </span></span><span style="color: #000081"><span style="font-family: 'MSTT31c3cb00'">ll</span></span><span style="color: #000081"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੧</span></span><span style="color: #000081"><span style="font-family: 'MSTT31c3cb00'">ll</span></span></p><p> <span style="color: #000081"><span style="font-family: 'MSTT31c3cb00'">ll</span></span><span style="color: #000081"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਜੀਉ ਜਲਿ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਉ</span></span><span style="color: #000081"><span style="font-family: 'MSTT31c3cb00'">ll</span></span> </p><p> <span style="color: #000081"><span style="font-family: 'MSTT31c3cb00'">ll</span></span><span style="color: #000081"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮੈ ਆਪਣਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਛਿ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਅਵਰੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਥਾਉ </span></span><span style="color: #000081"><span style="font-family: 'MSTT31c3cb00'">ll</span></span><span style="color: #000081"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੧</span></span><span style="color: #000081"><span style="font-family: 'MSTT31c3cb00'">ll</span></span><span style="color: #000081"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਰਹਾਉ</span></span><span style="color: #000081"><span style="font-family: 'MSTT31c3cb00'">ll</span></span></p><p> </p><p> <span style="color: black">here again guru sahib is talking about his guru. So a guru is must. Also Guru nanak’s guru must be a human a man as was with 2nd , 3rd ,4th ,5th ……..10th guru. Also guru raam dass ji says IN SGGS on pg 40 which bolsters the concept of a man being a true guru.</span></p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾਮੁ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਿਲੈ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਨੁ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਤ੍ਰਿਪਤੀਐ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬਿਨੁ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾਮੈ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਧ੍ਰਿਗ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜੀਵਾਸੁ</span></span> </p><p> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕੋਈ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਜਣੁ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜੇ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਿਲੈ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮੈ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਦਸੈ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪ੍ਰਭੁ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਗੁਣਤਾਸੁ</span></span> </p><p> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਹਉ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਤਿਸੁ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਵਿਟਹੁ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਚਉ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਖੰਨੀਐ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮੈ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾਮ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਰੇ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪਰਗਾਸੁ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D">ll</span><span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੧</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D">ll</span></p><p> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮੇਰ੍ਰੇ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮਾ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਹਉ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜੀਵਾ ਨਾਮੁ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਧਿਆਇ</span></span> </p><p> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬਿਨੁ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾਵੈ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜੀਵਣੁ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਥੀਐ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮੇਰੇ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਤਿਗੁਰ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾਮੁ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਏ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D">ll</span><span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੧</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D">ll</span><span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਰਹਾਉ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D">ll</span></p><p> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾਮੁ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਅਮੋਲਕੁ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਰਤਨੁ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਹੈ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪੂਰੇ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਤਿਗੁਰ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪਾਸਿ</span></span> </p><p> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਤਿਗੁਰ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸੇਵੈ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਲਗਿਆ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਢਿ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਰਤਨੁ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਦੇਵੈ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪਰਗਾਸਿ</span></span> </p><p> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਧੰਨੁ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਵਡਭਾਗੀ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਵਡ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਭਾਗੀਆ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜੋ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਆਇ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਿਲੇ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਗੁਰ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪਾਸਿ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D">ll</span><span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੨</span></span><span style="color: #1F497D"> </span><span style="color: #1F497D">ll</span></p><p> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜਿਨਾ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਤਿਗੁਰ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪੁਰਖੁ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਭੇਟਿਓ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸੇ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਭਾਗਹੀਣ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਵਸਿ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਾਲ</span></span> </p><p> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਓਇ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਫਿਰਿ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਫਿਰਿ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜੋਨਿ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਭਵਾਈਅਹਿ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਵਿਚਿ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਵਿਸਟਾ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਰਿ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਵਿਕਰਾਲ</span></span></p><p> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਓਹਨਾ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪਾਸਿ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਦੁਆਸਿ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਣ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਭਿਟੀਐ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜਿਨ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਅੰਤਰ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਚੰਡਾਲ</span></span><span style="color: #1F497D">ll </span><span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੩</span></span><span style="color: #1F497D">ll </span></p><p> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਤਿਗੁਰ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪੁਰਖੁ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਅਮ੍ਰਿਤ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਰੁ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਵਡਭਾਗੀ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾਵਹਿ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਆਇ</span></span> </p><p> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਉਨ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜਨਮ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜਨਮ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕੀ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮੈਲੁ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਉਤਰੈ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਿਰਮਲ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾਮ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਏ</span></span></p><p> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜਾਂ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾਨਕ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਉਤਮ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪਦੁ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪਾਇਆ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਤਿਗੁਰ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕੀ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਲਿਵ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਲਾਇ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D">ll</span></p><p> </p><p> <span style="color: black">I have quoted the whole shabd here but only to show that guru sahib has used the words “SAJJAN” & “PURKH” PURKH clearly stands for a “MAN”, SAJJAN is also used to describe the quality of a man where a person is very helpful or seeks our well being. </span></p><p> </p><p> <span style="color: black">Its written “KOI GURMUKH SAJJAN JE MILAI MEIN DASSAI PRABH GUNTAAS”</span></p><p> </p><p> <span style="color: black">KOI signifies to me that probability of someone being a true guru is not very high but guru sahib says if you meet a true guru he will tell you about the GOD “MEIN DASSAI PRABH GUNTAAS”</span></p><p> </p><p> <span style="color: black">Guru sahib at some other place in SGGS has mentioned that </span></p><p> <strong><span style="color: black">“ avar kaaj tere kitae naa kaam, mil saadh sangat bhaj keval naam”</span></strong> </p><p> </p><p> <span style="color: black">Gurur sahib is askin us to meet a saadh or sant that’s why I asked AMBARSARIA JI that is Sikhism against saints???? </span></p><p> </p><p> <span style="color: black">He replied </span></p><p> <span style="color: black">“</span><strong><em><span style="color: black">This is one of the essences of our Gurus teachings to tell us that God/Sachkhand is within each of us. You don't need a third person to find what is inside you.</span></em></strong></p><p><strong><em><span style="color: black"></span></em></strong></p><p><strong><em><span style="color: black">So Gurbani in Shabad after Shabad helps with this self discovery if you put your resources to it. Only a "Pakhandi" can let you hitch a ride to Sachkhand/God. Analogy is you probably seen lot of Babey/Pundits/Clairvoyants telling you on TV how they can solve all your problems and bring you luck. How come they cannot pick a lottery number every time (I am sure it is simpler than finding God) but are too happy to put their hand in your pocket. This is "Gol Mol" (a thievery) business and nothing more nothing less</span></em></strong><strong><em><span style="color: black">”</span></em></strong></p><p> </p><p> <span style="color: black">AMBARSARIA ji was talking about realization within and not involving a third person . I agree that there are many false saints or gurus but there must be some true one, one in millions that’s why guru sahib said “</span><span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕੋਈ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਜਣੁ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜੇ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਿਲੈ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮੈ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਦਸੈ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪ੍ਰਭੁ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਗੁਣਤਾਸੁ</span></span> <span style="color: black">”. but U are not right in stating that you don’t need a third person, what you meant is you don’t need a guru & this is a statement directly opposite to SGGS . Otherwise guru sahb would not state what I mentioned in the shabads above. </span></p><p> <span style="color: black">Guru nanak sahib would not clearly mention that “<strong>mein apna guru pooch dekhya”</strong></span></p><p> </p><p> <span style="color: black">I’d also state that when guru nanak was here ,he was clearly against the rituals prevailing that time. SO I have to say that his guru must be a man. AND GURU SAHIB HAS SAID “”<strong>mein apna guru pooch dekhya”</strong>”</span></p><p> <span style="color: black">Guru sahib says “pooch dekhya” not parh dekhya.</span></p><p> <span style="color: black">And the verse “GURU MAANYO GRANTH” is not in our SGGS. </span></p><p> </p><p> <span style="color: black">So I have made my point clear that you need to have a true guru and follow what he tells you. This is the path of guru nanak and all the gurus.</span></p><p> </p><p> <span style="color: black">True guru will not tell you other stories, he might not benefit you from outside but he will from inside. TRUE guru is the true “AMRITSAR” where contaminated souls take bath and are purified , I can put a whole shabad from gurbani supporting this statement but it’ll increase the size of the post.</span></p><p> <span style="color: black">68 TEERATHS are in the feet of the true guru. TRUE guru will tell you about naam and not just AKHRI NAAM. I’ve always stated that by naam guru sahib never meant some written words , naam is a power which cannot be bound in words, which cannot be bound in a book. NAAM SHABAD BAANI HUKAM are all used in the same context in SGGS. TRUE GURU has been given a lot of importance in SGGS and also mentioned in SGGS as I above mentioned, guru sahib says </span></p><p> <span style="color: black">“</span><span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਤਿਗੁਰ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪੁਰਖੁ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਭੇਟਿਓ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸੇ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਭਾਗਹੀਣ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਵਸਿ</span></span> <span style="color: #1F497D"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਾਲ</span></span><span style="color: black">” </span></p><p> <span style="color: black">Purkh (man )is used to signify the satguru or true guru. I think we all have to search for a true guru. Don’t know about all but I have to search as mentioned by guru sahib in SGGS.</span></p><p> </p><p> <span style="color: black">THESE THOUGHTS ARE WRITTEN WITH A VERY OPEN MINDSET AS ASKED BY SRI AMBARSARIYA JI> DO READ THESE WITH OPEN MINDSET. THIS IS NOTHING BUT WRITTEN IN SGGS.</span></p><p> </p><p> <span style="color: black">The answer to the first ques put forward has gotten so lengthy, it could have gotten more lengthy if I would give other examples from SGGS. But I decide to put a halt. I’ll answer other questions iun separate posts.</span></p><p> </p><p> <strong><em><span style="color: black">REGARDS & THANKS</span></em></strong></p><p> <strong><em><span style="color: black">***</span></em></strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Nirmaljot Baidwan, post: 143072, member: 14498"] NOW I COME TO THE MAIN TOPIC OF THE THREAD I put forward some questions and spnadmin ji requestioned those questions. I’d like to discuss my views with an open mind as suggested by Ambarsaria ji. 1st Ques- How do you define True Guru? Ans- True guru is the one who proscribes or prohibits his follower or we can say sikhs from mundane deeds or mundane affairs or rituals because a true guru tells us that these mundane deeds or rituals are not the right path to salvation or merging with the almighty. Guru sahib has told us in SGGS that the true teerath or srovar(holy pond) is within us, inside us & not anywhere else. A true guru will never tell us to be involved in rituals or mundane affairs . He will not tell us stories, he will tell us the truth, he will only speak about the truth, rather he’ll show you the truth. Is there any technique that guru will tell us to merge with him ??? Infact yes there must be a technique , that’s why guru nanak dev ji said in SGGS on pg 58 [COLOR=#000081][FONT=MSTT31c3cb00]ll[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000081][FONT=Raavi]੪[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000081][FONT=MSTT31c3cb00]ll[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000081][FONT=Raavi] ਹਉ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਛਉ ਆਪ੍ਨੇ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਛ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਉ [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000081][FONT=MSTT31c3cb00][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#000081][FONT=Raavi]ਸਬਦਿ ਸਲਾਹੀ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਹਉਮੈ ਦੁਖੁ ਜਲਿ ਜਾਓ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000081][FONT=MSTT31c3cb00][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#000081][FONT=Raavi]ਸਹਜੇ ਹੋਇ ਮਿਲਾਵੜਾ ਸਾਚੇ ਸਾਚਿ ਮਿਲਾਓ [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000081][FONT=MSTT31c3cb00]ll[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000081][FONT=Raavi]੫[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000081][FONT=MSTT31c3cb00]ll[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black]This is the verse between the number locks 4 & 5 of the shabad of Sri guru nanak dev ji. Guru sahib clearly tells us that “I ASKED MY GURU & THEN I STARTED TO WORK ON THE PATH AS TOLD BY MY GURU” . Guru sahib in other two lines of the verse tells us that after asking my guru I started to n the path of shabad & this destroyed my ego & after that gradually the true guru ([/COLOR][COLOR=#000081][FONT=Raavi]ਸਾਚੇ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black]) helped me meet the truth ([/COLOR][COLOR=#000081][FONT=Raavi]ਸਾਚਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black]). So its with the grace of true guru Guru Nanak met the truth , Guru Nanak who was himself SHABD SAROOP(form of shabd)needed a true guru, then who are we , who can meet the truth on our own??? [/COLOR] [COLOR=black] [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]One more interesting point here from this shabad is that Guru Nanak Dev Ji had a guru but there was a lot of ambiguity as to who was his guru. But this ambiguity doesn’t change the fact that We need a true guru.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black] [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]INTERESTINGLY I was further reading SGGS and I found another Shabad where Guru nanak talked about his Guru And his guru’s grace. On pg 14th Of SGGS[/COLOR] [COLOR=black] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#000081][FONT=MSTT31c3cb00]ll[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000081][FONT=Raavi] ਮੋਤੀ ਤ ਮੰਦਰ ਊਸਰਹਿ ਰਤਨੀ ਤ ਹੋਹਿ [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਜੜਾਉ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D]ll[/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000081][FONT=Raavi] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000081][FONT=MSTT31c3cb00][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#000081][FONT=MSTT31c3cb00]ll[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000081][FONT=Raavi]ਕਸਤੂਰਿ ਕੁੰਗੂ ਅਗਰਿ ਚੰਦਨਿ ਲੀਪਿ ਆਵੈ ਚਾਉ [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000081][FONT=MSTT31c3cb00]ll[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#000081][FONT=MSTT31c3cb00]ll[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000081][FONT=Raavi]ਮਤ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਉ [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000081][FONT=MSTT31c3cb00]ll[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000081][FONT=Raavi]੧[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000081][FONT=MSTT31c3cb00]ll[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#000081][FONT=MSTT31c3cb00]ll[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000081][FONT=Raavi]ਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਜੀਉ ਜਲਿ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਉ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000081][FONT=MSTT31c3cb00]ll[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000081][FONT=Raavi] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000081][FONT=MSTT31c3cb00][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#000081][FONT=MSTT31c3cb00]ll[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000081][FONT=Raavi]ਮੈ ਆਪਣਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਛਿ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਅਵਰੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਥਾਉ [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000081][FONT=MSTT31c3cb00]ll[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000081][FONT=Raavi]੧[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000081][FONT=MSTT31c3cb00]ll[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000081][FONT=Raavi]ਰਹਾਉ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000081][FONT=MSTT31c3cb00]ll[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=MSTT31c3cb00] [/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black]here again guru sahib is talking about his guru. So a guru is must. Also Guru nanak’s guru must be a human a man as was with 2nd , 3rd ,4th ,5th ……..10th guru. Also guru raam dass ji says IN SGGS on pg 40 which bolsters the concept of a man being a true guru.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black] [/COLOR] [COLOR=black] [/COLOR] [COLOR=black] [/COLOR] [COLOR=black] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਨਾਮੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਮਿਲੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਮਨੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਤ੍ਰਿਪਤੀਐ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਬਿਨੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਨਾਮੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਧ੍ਰਿਗ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਜੀਵਾਸੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][/COLOR] [COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਕੋਈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਸਜਣੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਜੇ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਮਿਲੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਮੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਦਸੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਪ੍ਰਭੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਗੁਣਤਾਸੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][/COLOR] [COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਹਉ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਤਿਸੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਵਿਟਹੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਚਉ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਖੰਨੀਐ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਮੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਨਾਮ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਕਰੇ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਪਰਗਾਸੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D]ll[/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]੧[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D]ll[/COLOR] [COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਮੇਰ੍ਰੇ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮਾ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਹਉ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਜੀਵਾ ਨਾਮੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਧਿਆਇ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][/COLOR] [COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਬਿਨੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਨਾਵੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਜੀਵਣੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਨਾ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਥੀਐ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਮੇਰੇ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਸਤਿਗੁਰ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਨਾਮੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਏ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D]ll[/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]੧[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D]ll[/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਰਹਾਉ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D]ll[/COLOR] [COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਨਾਮੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਅਮੋਲਕੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਰਤਨੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਹੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਪੂਰੇ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਸਤਿਗੁਰ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਪਾਸਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][/COLOR] [COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਸਤਿਗੁਰ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਸੇਵੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਲਗਿਆ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਕਢਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਰਤਨੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਦੇਵੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਪਰਗਾਸਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][/COLOR] [COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਧੰਨੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਵਡਭਾਗੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਵਡ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਭਾਗੀਆ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਜੋ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਆਇ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਮਿਲੇ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਗੁਰ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਪਾਸਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D]ll[/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]੨[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D]ll[/COLOR] [COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਜਿਨਾ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਸਤਿਗੁਰ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਪੁਰਖੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਨਾ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਭੇਟਿਓ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਸੇ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਭਾਗਹੀਣ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਵਸਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਕਾਲ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][/COLOR] [COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਓਇ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਫਿਰਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਫਿਰਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਜੋਨਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਭਵਾਈਅਹਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਵਿਚਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਵਿਸਟਾ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਕਰਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਵਿਕਰਾਲ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][/COLOR] [COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਓਹਨਾ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਪਾਸਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਦੁਆਸਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਣ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਭਿਟੀਐ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਜਿਨ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਅੰਤਰ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਚੰਡਾਲ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D]ll [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]੩[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D]ll [/COLOR] [COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਸਤਿਗੁਰ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਪੁਰਖੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਅਮ੍ਰਿਤ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਸਰੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਵਡਭਾਗੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਨਾਵਹਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਆਇ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][/COLOR] [COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਉਨ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਜਨਮ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਜਨਮ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਕੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਮੈਲੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਉਤਰੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਨਿਰਮਲ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਨਾਮ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਏ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][/COLOR] [COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਜਾਂ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਨਾਨਕ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਉਤਮ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਪਦੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਪਾਇਆ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਸਤਿਗੁਰ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਕੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਲਿਵ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਲਾਇ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D]ll[/COLOR] [COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]I have quoted the whole shabd here but only to show that guru sahib has used the words “SAJJAN” & “PURKH” PURKH clearly stands for a “MAN”, SAJJAN is also used to describe the quality of a man where a person is very helpful or seeks our well being. [/COLOR] [COLOR=black] [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Its written “KOI GURMUKH SAJJAN JE MILAI MEIN DASSAI PRABH GUNTAAS”[/COLOR] [COLOR=black] [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]KOI signifies to me that probability of someone being a true guru is not very high but guru sahib says if you meet a true guru he will tell you about the GOD “MEIN DASSAI PRABH GUNTAAS”[/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][/COLOR] [COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Guru sahib at some other place in SGGS has mentioned that [/COLOR] [B][COLOR=black]“ avar kaaj tere kitae naa kaam, mil saadh sangat bhaj keval naam”[/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#1F497D][/COLOR][/B] [COLOR=black] [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Gurur sahib is askin us to meet a saadh or sant that’s why I asked AMBARSARIA JI that is Sikhism against saints???? [/COLOR] [COLOR=black] [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]He replied [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]“[/COLOR][B][I][COLOR=black]This is one of the essences of our Gurus teachings to tell us that God/Sachkhand is within each of us. You don't need a third person to find what is inside you. So Gurbani in Shabad after Shabad helps with this self discovery if you put your resources to it. Only a "Pakhandi" can let you hitch a ride to Sachkhand/God. Analogy is you probably seen lot of Babey/Pundits/Clairvoyants telling you on TV how they can solve all your problems and bring you luck. How come they cannot pick a lottery number every time (I am sure it is simpler than finding God) but are too happy to put their hand in your pocket. This is "Gol Mol" (a thievery) business and nothing more nothing less[/COLOR][/I][/B][B][I][COLOR=black]”[/COLOR][/I][/B] [B][I][COLOR=black] [/COLOR][/I][/B] [COLOR=black]AMBARSARIA ji was talking about realization within and not involving a third person . I agree that there are many false saints or gurus but there must be some true one, one in millions that’s why guru sahib said “[/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਕੋਈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਸਜਣੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਜੇ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਮਿਲੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਮੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਦਸੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਪ੍ਰਭੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਗੁਣਤਾਸੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=black]”. but U are not right in stating that you don’t need a third person, what you meant is you don’t need a guru & this is a statement directly opposite to SGGS . Otherwise guru sahb would not state what I mentioned in the shabads above. [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Guru nanak sahib would not clearly mention that “[B]mein apna guru pooch dekhya”[/B][/COLOR] [B][COLOR=black] [/COLOR][/B] [COLOR=black]I’d also state that when guru nanak was here ,he was clearly against the rituals prevailing that time. SO I have to say that his guru must be a man. AND GURU SAHIB HAS SAID “”[B]mein apna guru pooch dekhya”[/B]”[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Guru sahib says “pooch dekhya” not parh dekhya.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]And the verse “GURU MAANYO GRANTH” is not in our SGGS. [/COLOR] [COLOR=black] [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]So I have made my point clear that you need to have a true guru and follow what he tells you. This is the path of guru nanak and all the gurus.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black] [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]True guru will not tell you other stories, he might not benefit you from outside but he will from inside. TRUE guru is the true “AMRITSAR” where contaminated souls take bath and are purified , I can put a whole shabad from gurbani supporting this statement but it’ll increase the size of the post.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]68 TEERATHS are in the feet of the true guru. TRUE guru will tell you about naam and not just AKHRI NAAM. I’ve always stated that by naam guru sahib never meant some written words , naam is a power which cannot be bound in words, which cannot be bound in a book. NAAM SHABAD BAANI HUKAM are all used in the same context in SGGS. TRUE GURU has been given a lot of importance in SGGS and also mentioned in SGGS as I above mentioned, guru sahib says [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]“[/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਸਤਿਗੁਰ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਪੁਰਖੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਨਾ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਭੇਟਿਓ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਸੇ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਭਾਗਹੀਣ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਵਸਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D] [/COLOR][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT=Raavi]ਕਾਲ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black]” [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Purkh (man )is used to signify the satguru or true guru. I think we all have to search for a true guru. Don’t know about all but I have to search as mentioned by guru sahib in SGGS.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black] [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]THESE THOUGHTS ARE WRITTEN WITH A VERY OPEN MINDSET AS ASKED BY SRI AMBARSARIYA JI> DO READ THESE WITH OPEN MINDSET. THIS IS NOTHING BUT WRITTEN IN SGGS.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black] [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]The answer to the first ques put forward has gotten so lengthy, it could have gotten more lengthy if I would give other examples from SGGS. But I decide to put a halt. I’ll answer other questions iun separate posts.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black] [/COLOR] [B][I][COLOR=black]REGARDS & THANKS[/COLOR][/I][/B] [B][I][COLOR=black]***[/COLOR][/I][/B][COLOR=black][/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Gurmat Vichaar
Gurmat Vichar - Discussions
Serving A True Guru
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top