☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Interfaith Dialogues
Ravidass Followers Declare Separate Panth And Granth
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="roab1" data-source="post: 121685" data-attributes="member: 8968"><p><em>Can you point out where the person you want to call guru addresses himself as such? Can you please quote relevent verses? It is obvious you have no knowledge about what you are talking about. Everyone is adressed as per their title in Guru Granth Sahib.</em></p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><em>You probably dont even know that 'Khalsa' was also made 'corporal Guru' in addition to SGGS by Guru Gobind Singh. That is why it is called Guru Panth Khalsa. The panth as a whole is equal to SGGS. By panth i mean not those who 'believe' or 'respect' SGGS, but those Sikhs who follow rehit maryada. </em></p><p></p><p><em>The SGGS is not creation of <em>some</em> Gurus. It is divine relevation, if you know what that means. The SGGS as a whole is Guru and became Guru when it was made such by preceding Guru. Read the verses of Saints to know what they were instead of making assumptions about how great they were. If some is taken out, like in gutke, it does not become Guru or greater. To be Guru it has to be whole Guru Granth Sahib, the way it was made by Guru Gobind Singh. Bani of Bhagats is not guru, but only when it is presented as part of SGGs, it is 'part' of Guru. The creator is not always greater than its creation. Guru Gobind Singh bowed and took 'pahul' from the 'Khalsa' he created and was 'ordered' and even 'punshied' by his creation. </em></p><p></p><p> <!--[if !supportLists]--></p><p></p><p></p><p><em>Guruship was also given to 'Khalsa panth'. And 'Khalsa' stands on equal footing with SGGS. Khalsa is worthy of all respect enjoyed by Guru, however it being 'saint-soldier' it doesnt accept it would also be impossible. The Bhagats are called Bhagats because our Guru, SGGS, says so. However it does not guide us to address bhagats as 'Guru'. You would call your chacha 'Ramu' if you were not prohibited by your Father or 'Ramu' himself. Lots of small children address even their parents by their name following other members of family. Only when they get older and it looks embarrasing, they are 'told' how to 'behave'. </em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Now i ask you where does it occur how the Bhagats should be addressed as Guru? You use SGGS as an example so answer withing the domain of SGGS or the way bhagats themselves wanted to be addressed.</em></p><p></p><p><em>Atleast the Bhagats are given respect in it, otherwise the words that bhagat Ravidas chooses for defining himself are really cheap and would land a person in prison if he were to adress another person with the words Bhagat ravidas used for himself. </em></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p> <!--[if !supportLists]--></p><p></p><p><em>You have serious defect in your knowledge, the next time you see the 'giani' who taught you properly kick him, if he is alive. </em></p><p><em>And also learn some gurmukhi grammer. If you read SGGS and know punjabi then tell me, is 'siyaari' use in the term 'mohalla'</em>?</p><p></p><p></p><p><em>What is your source? Similar type of another source mentions a party of Bhagats led by Kbir <em>begging</em> Guru Arjan Dev to include their work in SGGS. Instead of reading half baked lies read what Bhagat Ravidas' observations about his self and stature. Did Guru Nanak write about hoe Bhagat ravidas should be addressed? Or should i follow what Bhagat Ravidas calls himself and addess him as 'neech' (rascal) Ravidas? It is Bhagat Ravidas who addresses himself as a devotee. And if you know so much history, why are ignoring the 'real' Guru of Bhagat Ravidas, Ramanand?</em></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><em>Did you read the next line too or were you taught only one line by your 'giani'? What does 'Guru Granth ji Maneyo Pragat Guran ki deh' and 'Jo Prabh Ko Mil Boch Hai Khoj Shabd Mein Leh' mean?</em></p><p></p><p><em>'Take the Granth as 'body' of Gurus and 'those who desire to meet Lord can do so in the verses of the Granth'.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Did he (tenth guru) tell what to call 'Bhagats' of Guru Granth Sahib? He made their Bani Guru when part of SGGS, not the Bhagats.</em></p><p></p><p><em>Do you follo his other directive of not cutting the hair and keeping five K's and believe that wherever Khalsa in form of 'panj piare' is present, recognise it is him? Have you read all other scriptures outside SGGS?</em></p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p><em>What and where did he say to call Bhagat Ravidas as Guru? And why are you not following his directive to recognise SGGS as 'Body' of Gurus by constantly calling it a book?</em></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><em>Brahmanic words are present as Bani in our Guru Granth Sahib. So do not bring your castesim into everything. Everyone has been given a place in Gurus house as per 'ek noor te sab bande' (all of mankind is from same source).</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Going by your theory, you should also accpet 'Brahmans' as 'Guru'</em>.</p><p></p><p></p><p><em>Sant Gurmeet ram Rahim says he is modern incarnation of Guru Gobind Singh. Sant Ashutosh says he is 'true Khalsa'. Sant Sai Baba says he is GOD. We know what is the truth, dont we?</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>As for Kabir being Guru Nanak Dev, that is utterly childish. Which scholar say that by the way? A lot of scholar also say, Sikhs are Hindus, Guru Gobind Singh was Durga Bhagat, Sikhs are criminal tribe etc etc.Are you really that naive to belive whatever?</em></p><p> </p><p></p><p><em>Only a person who has no knowledge about punjabi and SGGS can say that. Thaat is height of stupidity. Mohalla is like a dwelling. Mahila is a woman. Did you see the 'addak' above the letter M and see there is no 'siyaari' before M? Do you know what ADDAK and SIYARI is? </em></p><p> </p><p></p><p> <em>No wonder, i am not at all surprised. </em></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><em>It would be nice if you know the whole verse and how it is addressed. Guruji is talking about meeting between 'soul' bride and 'husband' God. </em></p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p><em>For you knowledge Bhai mardana was a Sandhu Jatt!! Sardar Beant Singh was well...a Singh. You also gave example of Sangat Singh. He was one of 'forty' Singhs who fought and attained shaheedi with chote sahibzade. Only three escaped. Have you considered how many non-chammars have contributed to Sikhism or SGGS? The ratio of chammars is very small compared to non-chamaars. As for identifying yourself with 'Dalit' , technically chamaars are not the lowest so should not be termed as Dalit. And dont worry, some Jatt groups hav ebeen fighting for reservation too. Then it shall get more interesting if they succeed. You will then whine how they snatched your share of 'reservation' too.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Can i ask you a question in addition to many</em></p><p></p><p><em>How many Chamaars were shot, hanged, imprisoned for 'Indian Freedom Movement' and How many Sikhs? You got reservation after independance, right? So in reality you are eating food gotten by Sikhs! And also Gandhi, father of India, is from 'high caste'. So why are you living in a nation whose independance was got by a person from High Caste</em>?</p><p></p><p></p><p><em>Rangrette were traditional sweepers! Chamaars are not Guru ke bete because for that you have to be</em></p><p><em>1. Gursikh</em></p><p><em>2 From sweeper caste.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>And as Chamaars are from cobbler caste your point is totally absurd.</em></p><p></p><p><em>Guru Gobind Singh didnt utter any word for ANY caste. He spoke only about casteless Khalsa and sadly many modern Sikhs would fail that in present times.</em></p><p></p><p></p><p><em>There are historical sources that point to ranjit also being from sandhu clan. Actually no actual record exists, so stop using historical people for your cause.</em></p><p> </p><p></p><p><em>Dalits were never Sikh panth de rakhe (protectors of Sikhsim).Protecter is Bhagauti and Guru. Read proper history and contribution of people from all castes, and chamaars stand very low in that. You make those chamaars who contributed as 'parasites' who fed and grew from blood of Sikhi and now ant to take off after leeching all the blood you could. Shame Shame!!</em></p><p></p><p></p><p><em> Dalit and Sikh is two different things. A casteist Dalit can never be Sikh leader. How many Dalits died for Sikhism? You have named inly a few whereas Sikhism history is full of shaheeds? Do you know 33% seats are reserved for Dalit Sikhs in SGPC? which is gainst Sikh tenets though. </em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>And why are you clubbing 'Dalit' with Chamaar'? Chammars might be a small quota of reservation system but you want leadership in that too it seems! For your kind information majority of 'Dalits' are not chamaars and are mostly Hindu.</em> </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><em>What numbers? You are not even a Sikh and you have been shown who 'Guru ke Bete' (sons of Guru) are, and they are not non-sikh chamaars!</em></p><p> </p><p> </p><p><em>Do you know there were another 39 Sikhs in Chamkaur? Who were they? Have you visited gurdwara Qatalgarh Sahib, erected on place where the brave Sikhs died? Was sangat Singh chamaar? Stop lying without shame.</em></p><p></p><p></p><p><em>Are you a true Sikh of Guru Gobind Singh? Speak for yourself. And why the obseeion of getting married into so called high caste? Inferiority complex? Do believe yourself to be what Bhagat Ravidas calls himslef in SGGS, a lowly and cheap person</em>. </p><p></p><p>.</p><p></p><p><em>Then why are posing as a 'chamaar' and 'bipran ki reet' follower. Do you know taking out Bani from SGGS and forming another granth from it makes you a 'heretic'? Why are you lying so much?</em></p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p><em>So this means it was something related not to caste, otherwise you would have been fed alongside the 'seeri'. Was the family pooran Gursikh and followed proper Sikhism way of life? What about you?</em></p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p><em>Guru ke Bete</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>1. Were pooran Gursikh and from sweeper caste.</em></p><p><em>2. Got head of Ninth Guru after he was beheaded to Anandpur.</em></p><p><em>3. Were fighters of Sikh cause and part of Khalsa.</em></p><p><em>4. Never turned their back on Guru, even if they had to die.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Do you or that 'seeri' (farm labourer) fulfill that criteria?</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>And do you the caste of the person who burned his house to cremate ninth Gurus body? Is his contribution lesser than any other? What about 'Khatri' followers of Guru Tegh bahadur who were cut into two by saw and boiled alive? They all are connected to same event that earned 'sweepers' title of 'Guru Ke Bete'. Was any non-sikh or chamaar invloved in all this?</em></p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p><em>Nobody objects if Ravidas is called Guru. Ayurvedic university has been named Guru Ravidass university in Hoshiarpur. Stop spreading lies. Ravidas is called what he is called in SGGS. </em></p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p><em>Do you know he has knee problems? Why dont you approach Akal takht on the matter? Same standard you apply to you. Why didnt you create communal riots when the Gurus beadbi was done? Why do you act only when the matter concerns Chamaar sant? If you read this forum than you must know Badal is not liked by majority of members and many Sikhs term him as eenemy of Sikhs.</em></p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p><em>It is you who is not following same rules.</em></p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p><em>You know how politics are played, dont you?</em></p><p> </p><p>.</p><p></p><p><em>We dont need non-sikh caste follwing persons as our allies. These type of persons are more dangerous than RSS. So dont hope anything from Sikhs. The real gangu it appears is you at the moment.</em></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><em>You can play politics but gaing success is another matter. Knshi ram failed in Punjab, his place of birth. Life of Dalits is worse under rule of dalit CM in UP. Ambedkar also failed and almost all the people he converted to buddhism relapsed into Hindusim.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>And there is a wide idfference between a 'Dalit' and 'chamaar'. The movement for getting 'Jatts' under reservation is also gaining momentum. Time is not far when you will get a taste of your own stick. Be ready</em>.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><em>Sorry! The 'sons' of Guru are casteless and pooran Gurskihs. They are not modern leaders of society as you seem to think. Neither are they non-sikh people, whoever they are. Take you greviences elsewhere.</em></p><p> </p><p> .</p><p> <em>Where does he state that?</em></p><p></p><p><strong>sorry for making it too long readers!</strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="roab1, post: 121685, member: 8968"] [I]Can you point out where the person you want to call guru addresses himself as such? Can you please quote relevent verses? It is obvious you have no knowledge about what you are talking about. Everyone is adressed as per their title in Guru Granth Sahib.[/I] [I]You probably dont even know that 'Khalsa' was also made 'corporal Guru' in addition to SGGS by Guru Gobind Singh. That is why it is called Guru Panth Khalsa. The panth as a whole is equal to SGGS. By panth i mean not those who 'believe' or 'respect' SGGS, but those Sikhs who follow rehit maryada. [/I] [I]The SGGS is not creation of [I]some[/I] Gurus. It is divine relevation, if you know what that means. The SGGS as a whole is Guru and became Guru when it was made such by preceding Guru. Read the verses of Saints to know what they were instead of making assumptions about how great they were. If some is taken out, like in gutke, it does not become Guru or greater. To be Guru it has to be whole Guru Granth Sahib, the way it was made by Guru Gobind Singh. Bani of Bhagats is not guru, but only when it is presented as part of SGGs, it is 'part' of Guru. The creator is not always greater than its creation. Guru Gobind Singh bowed and took 'pahul' from the 'Khalsa' he created and was 'ordered' and even 'punshied' by his creation. [/I] <!--[if !supportLists]--> [I]Guruship was also given to 'Khalsa panth'. And 'Khalsa' stands on equal footing with SGGS. Khalsa is worthy of all respect enjoyed by Guru, however it being 'saint-soldier' it doesnt accept it would also be impossible. The Bhagats are called Bhagats because our Guru, SGGS, says so. However it does not guide us to address bhagats as 'Guru'. You would call your chacha 'Ramu' if you were not prohibited by your Father or 'Ramu' himself. Lots of small children address even their parents by their name following other members of family. Only when they get older and it looks embarrasing, they are 'told' how to 'behave'. Now i ask you where does it occur how the Bhagats should be addressed as Guru? You use SGGS as an example so answer withing the domain of SGGS or the way bhagats themselves wanted to be addressed.[/I] [I]Atleast the Bhagats are given respect in it, otherwise the words that bhagat Ravidas chooses for defining himself are really cheap and would land a person in prison if he were to adress another person with the words Bhagat ravidas used for himself. [/I] <!--[if !supportLists]--> [I]You have serious defect in your knowledge, the next time you see the 'giani' who taught you properly kick him, if he is alive. And also learn some gurmukhi grammer. If you read SGGS and know punjabi then tell me, is 'siyaari' use in the term 'mohalla'[/I]? [I]What is your source? Similar type of another source mentions a party of Bhagats led by Kbir [I]begging[/I] Guru Arjan Dev to include their work in SGGS. Instead of reading half baked lies read what Bhagat Ravidas' observations about his self and stature. Did Guru Nanak write about hoe Bhagat ravidas should be addressed? Or should i follow what Bhagat Ravidas calls himself and addess him as 'neech' (rascal) Ravidas? It is Bhagat Ravidas who addresses himself as a devotee. And if you know so much history, why are ignoring the 'real' Guru of Bhagat Ravidas, Ramanand?[/I] [I]Did you read the next line too or were you taught only one line by your 'giani'? What does 'Guru Granth ji Maneyo Pragat Guran ki deh' and 'Jo Prabh Ko Mil Boch Hai Khoj Shabd Mein Leh' mean?[/I] [I]'Take the Granth as 'body' of Gurus and 'those who desire to meet Lord can do so in the verses of the Granth'. Did he (tenth guru) tell what to call 'Bhagats' of Guru Granth Sahib? He made their Bani Guru when part of SGGS, not the Bhagats.[/I] [I]Do you follo his other directive of not cutting the hair and keeping five K's and believe that wherever Khalsa in form of 'panj piare' is present, recognise it is him? Have you read all other scriptures outside SGGS?[/I] [I]What and where did he say to call Bhagat Ravidas as Guru? And why are you not following his directive to recognise SGGS as 'Body' of Gurus by constantly calling it a book?[/I] [I]Brahmanic words are present as Bani in our Guru Granth Sahib. So do not bring your castesim into everything. Everyone has been given a place in Gurus house as per 'ek noor te sab bande' (all of mankind is from same source). Going by your theory, you should also accpet 'Brahmans' as 'Guru'[/I]. [I]Sant Gurmeet ram Rahim says he is modern incarnation of Guru Gobind Singh. Sant Ashutosh says he is 'true Khalsa'. Sant Sai Baba says he is GOD. We know what is the truth, dont we? As for Kabir being Guru Nanak Dev, that is utterly childish. Which scholar say that by the way? A lot of scholar also say, Sikhs are Hindus, Guru Gobind Singh was Durga Bhagat, Sikhs are criminal tribe etc etc.Are you really that naive to belive whatever?[/I] [I]Only a person who has no knowledge about punjabi and SGGS can say that. Thaat is height of stupidity. Mohalla is like a dwelling. Mahila is a woman. Did you see the 'addak' above the letter M and see there is no 'siyaari' before M? Do you know what ADDAK and SIYARI is? [/I] [I]No wonder, i am not at all surprised. [/I] [I]It would be nice if you know the whole verse and how it is addressed. Guruji is talking about meeting between 'soul' bride and 'husband' God. [/I] [I]For you knowledge Bhai mardana was a Sandhu Jatt!! Sardar Beant Singh was well...a Singh. You also gave example of Sangat Singh. He was one of 'forty' Singhs who fought and attained shaheedi with chote sahibzade. Only three escaped. Have you considered how many non-chammars have contributed to Sikhism or SGGS? The ratio of chammars is very small compared to non-chamaars. As for identifying yourself with 'Dalit' , technically chamaars are not the lowest so should not be termed as Dalit. And dont worry, some Jatt groups hav ebeen fighting for reservation too. Then it shall get more interesting if they succeed. You will then whine how they snatched your share of 'reservation' too. Can i ask you a question in addition to many[/I] [I]How many Chamaars were shot, hanged, imprisoned for 'Indian Freedom Movement' and How many Sikhs? You got reservation after independance, right? So in reality you are eating food gotten by Sikhs! And also Gandhi, father of India, is from 'high caste'. So why are you living in a nation whose independance was got by a person from High Caste[/I]? [I]Rangrette were traditional sweepers! Chamaars are not Guru ke bete because for that you have to be 1. Gursikh 2 From sweeper caste. And as Chamaars are from cobbler caste your point is totally absurd.[/I] [I]Guru Gobind Singh didnt utter any word for ANY caste. He spoke only about casteless Khalsa and sadly many modern Sikhs would fail that in present times.[/I] [I]There are historical sources that point to ranjit also being from sandhu clan. Actually no actual record exists, so stop using historical people for your cause.[/I] [I]Dalits were never Sikh panth de rakhe (protectors of Sikhsim).Protecter is Bhagauti and Guru. Read proper history and contribution of people from all castes, and chamaars stand very low in that. You make those chamaars who contributed as 'parasites' who fed and grew from blood of Sikhi and now ant to take off after leeching all the blood you could. Shame Shame!![/I] [I] Dalit and Sikh is two different things. A casteist Dalit can never be Sikh leader. How many Dalits died for Sikhism? You have named inly a few whereas Sikhism history is full of shaheeds? Do you know 33% seats are reserved for Dalit Sikhs in SGPC? which is gainst Sikh tenets though. And why are you clubbing 'Dalit' with Chamaar'? Chammars might be a small quota of reservation system but you want leadership in that too it seems! For your kind information majority of 'Dalits' are not chamaars and are mostly Hindu.[/I] [I]What numbers? You are not even a Sikh and you have been shown who 'Guru ke Bete' (sons of Guru) are, and they are not non-sikh chamaars![/I] [I]Do you know there were another 39 Sikhs in Chamkaur? Who were they? Have you visited gurdwara Qatalgarh Sahib, erected on place where the brave Sikhs died? Was sangat Singh chamaar? Stop lying without shame.[/I] [I]Are you a true Sikh of Guru Gobind Singh? Speak for yourself. And why the obseeion of getting married into so called high caste? Inferiority complex? Do believe yourself to be what Bhagat Ravidas calls himslef in SGGS, a lowly and cheap person[/I]. . [I]Then why are posing as a 'chamaar' and 'bipran ki reet' follower. Do you know taking out Bani from SGGS and forming another granth from it makes you a 'heretic'? Why are you lying so much?[/I] [I]So this means it was something related not to caste, otherwise you would have been fed alongside the 'seeri'. Was the family pooran Gursikh and followed proper Sikhism way of life? What about you?[/I] [I]Guru ke Bete 1. Were pooran Gursikh and from sweeper caste. 2. Got head of Ninth Guru after he was beheaded to Anandpur. 3. Were fighters of Sikh cause and part of Khalsa. 4. Never turned their back on Guru, even if they had to die. Do you or that 'seeri' (farm labourer) fulfill that criteria? And do you the caste of the person who burned his house to cremate ninth Gurus body? Is his contribution lesser than any other? What about 'Khatri' followers of Guru Tegh bahadur who were cut into two by saw and boiled alive? They all are connected to same event that earned 'sweepers' title of 'Guru Ke Bete'. Was any non-sikh or chamaar invloved in all this?[/I] [I]Nobody objects if Ravidas is called Guru. Ayurvedic university has been named Guru Ravidass university in Hoshiarpur. Stop spreading lies. Ravidas is called what he is called in SGGS. [/I] [I]Do you know he has knee problems? Why dont you approach Akal takht on the matter? Same standard you apply to you. Why didnt you create communal riots when the Gurus beadbi was done? Why do you act only when the matter concerns Chamaar sant? If you read this forum than you must know Badal is not liked by majority of members and many Sikhs term him as eenemy of Sikhs.[/I] [I]It is you who is not following same rules.[/I] [I]You know how politics are played, dont you?[/I] . [I]We dont need non-sikh caste follwing persons as our allies. These type of persons are more dangerous than RSS. So dont hope anything from Sikhs. The real gangu it appears is you at the moment.[/I] [I]You can play politics but gaing success is another matter. Knshi ram failed in Punjab, his place of birth. Life of Dalits is worse under rule of dalit CM in UP. Ambedkar also failed and almost all the people he converted to buddhism relapsed into Hindusim. [/I] [I]And there is a wide idfference between a 'Dalit' and 'chamaar'. The movement for getting 'Jatts' under reservation is also gaining momentum. Time is not far when you will get a taste of your own stick. Be ready[/I]. [I]Sorry! The 'sons' of Guru are casteless and pooran Gurskihs. They are not modern leaders of society as you seem to think. Neither are they non-sikh people, whoever they are. Take you greviences elsewhere.[/I] . [I]Where does he state that?[/I] [B]sorry for making it too long readers![/B] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Interfaith Dialogues
Ravidass Followers Declare Separate Panth And Granth
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top