☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Interfaith Dialogues
Nihang Sikhs In Sikhism
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="spnadmin" data-source="post: 96496" data-attributes="member: 35"><p>Interested ji -- By asking questions you are doing what Sikhism permits as a religion more than any other religion. Guru Nanak was from childhood the one who set the pace by asking the hard questions that authority figures could not answer logically. And he continued. Moreover it was Guru Gobind Singh himself who thought long and hard about justice and war in the most dialectic way. </p><p></p><p>One reminder -- and this is not to discourage you -- but among us the Sikhs there are strong passions and sometimes questions trigger intense reactions. Do not ever let this set you off your intended path.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><em>I understand that the times were very different, corrupt and in shambles and after speaking to the author of this book (a Nihang Sikh), he made it very clear that this was worship - seen as instruments to be worshiped. As I read on, he continued to talk about (Quoting from the same book: page 41) "The worship of weapons conducted by Guru Gobind Singh included the reading of the ballads of Chandi </em>...</span></p><p></p><p>The author's understanding of "worship" may not carry the same intention as the idea of "worship" in the western sense, or even in the sense of worshiping an idol of Ganesha. By worship he may mean "dhyann" which is focused devotion on the underlying meaning. The worship comes through meditation and as I explained <a href="http://www.searchgurbani.com/main.php?book=dasam_granth&action=pagebypage&Action=Page&page=1356" target="_blank">Shastar Naam Mala</a> was provided to guide the meditation. The best thing you could do to advance your studies would be to start a dialog with the authors yourself and become a scholar in your own right. Do not shy away from this. It helps dispell crazy notions that are out there in the drinking water. </p><p></p><p><em><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">As I read on, he continued to talk about (Quoting from the same book: page 41) "The worship of weapons conducted by Guru Gobind Singh included the reading of the ballads of Chandiand the decapitation a goat as a sacrifice the the divine mother. The first weapon anointed with the goats blood was Chandi's standard." This came into his presence as agift from Chandi (who is 'the guardian of dharam in the Hindu world.' (page 40). Was it not Islam and Hinduism that Guru Nanak with full respect questioned the practises of?</span></em></p><p><em></em></p><p>A more complete discussion of the ballads of Chandi is needed in order for this to become more understandable within in the path described by Guru Nanak. We should continue this discussion about Chandi -- because it is very interesting, but it deserves more than a superficial summary. Let that unfold.</p><p></p><p>As for the decapitation of a goat. The Nihangs to this day make "goat" their signature meat and decapitate the goat using the practice of jatkha which is in one fell swoop so that the animal is killed instantly. If this had Mulsim connections, they would have the animal die by bleeding to death slowly, and the slaughter would be accompanied by a chant to God (Allah Akbar!). This does not happen in the Nihang practice. </p><p></p><p><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><em>Moreso, it talks of Guru Gobind Singh ji seeking revenge for the death of his sons. This in itself is another important aspect of Sikhism lost in its theories. As I understand it, Guru Gobind Singh ji was spiritually above any of this. Revenge was not his motive and that is one of the many reasons that we can only aspire to such greatness. Greed, hatred and revenge are what Sikhism fights (metaphorically) against. Am I wrong?</em></span></p><p></p><p>If Niddar and Pritam said "seeking revenge" that may be their view of the situation. There are other sakhis of Gobind Singh in which he is reported to say that all of his Sikhs were his children. He was at a cross-road and he had to choose. He faced a dilemma. He had to choose either pacifism which would surely doom all of Sikhi and guarantee that Sikhism would perish completely. Or he had to choose to make war -- despite the cost and despite the violence - to guarantee the future of Sikhism. This is always the dilemma of war and it shows that the Hindu traditions were not what guided him. And this even when the conflicts began as a defense of Hindus and their way of life and beliefs.</p><p><em></em></p><p><em><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">I thank you very much and I will take your advice and follow this line to learn more. But I think that it should be noted that the practises of Nihang-Singhs (if this is what it is) is NOT the sikh way and this book should be read with caution. Am I wrong for saying that? I wish not to offend but question, is this right? <strong>Will this book enlighten or hinder? </strong>What is the purpose of this book? All questions, I am sure could have been answered had I read the book before going to the signing.</span></em></p><p></p><p>The book is controversial. Ironically not for the questions you raise. At the same time it is a starting point for you. It is making you think dispassionately and logically. Your questions strike to the core. One book is not going to explain everything. So continue your study. And you have company because there are Sikhs who question Nihang practices and beliefs openly. If you want to talk more about Chandi, let some of us know.</p><p></p><p>Continue as a Sikh, a learner. Guru Fateh!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="spnadmin, post: 96496, member: 35"] Interested ji -- By asking questions you are doing what Sikhism permits as a religion more than any other religion. Guru Nanak was from childhood the one who set the pace by asking the hard questions that authority figures could not answer logically. And he continued. Moreover it was Guru Gobind Singh himself who thought long and hard about justice and war in the most dialectic way. One reminder -- and this is not to discourage you -- but among us the Sikhs there are strong passions and sometimes questions trigger intense reactions. Do not ever let this set you off your intended path. [COLOR=DarkOliveGreen][I]I understand that the times were very different, corrupt and in shambles and after speaking to the author of this book (a Nihang Sikh), he made it very clear that this was worship - seen as instruments to be worshiped. As I read on, he continued to talk about (Quoting from the same book: page 41) "The worship of weapons conducted by Guru Gobind Singh included the reading of the ballads of Chandi [/I]...[/COLOR] The author's understanding of "worship" may not carry the same intention as the idea of "worship" in the western sense, or even in the sense of worshiping an idol of Ganesha. By worship he may mean "dhyann" which is focused devotion on the underlying meaning. The worship comes through meditation and as I explained [URL="http://www.searchgurbani.com/main.php?book=dasam_granth&action=pagebypage&Action=Page&page=1356"]Shastar Naam Mala[/URL] was provided to guide the meditation. The best thing you could do to advance your studies would be to start a dialog with the authors yourself and become a scholar in your own right. Do not shy away from this. It helps dispell crazy notions that are out there in the drinking water. [I][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]As I read on, he continued to talk about (Quoting from the same book: page 41) "The worship of weapons conducted by Guru Gobind Singh included the reading of the ballads of Chandiand the decapitation a goat as a sacrifice the the divine mother. The first weapon anointed with the goats blood was Chandi's standard." This came into his presence as agift from Chandi (who is 'the guardian of dharam in the Hindu world.' (page 40). Was it not Islam and Hinduism that Guru Nanak with full respect questioned the practises of?[/COLOR] [/I] A more complete discussion of the ballads of Chandi is needed in order for this to become more understandable within in the path described by Guru Nanak. We should continue this discussion about Chandi -- because it is very interesting, but it deserves more than a superficial summary. Let that unfold. As for the decapitation of a goat. The Nihangs to this day make "goat" their signature meat and decapitate the goat using the practice of jatkha which is in one fell swoop so that the animal is killed instantly. If this had Mulsim connections, they would have the animal die by bleeding to death slowly, and the slaughter would be accompanied by a chant to God (Allah Akbar!). This does not happen in the Nihang practice. [COLOR=DarkOliveGreen][I]Moreso, it talks of Guru Gobind Singh ji seeking revenge for the death of his sons. This in itself is another important aspect of Sikhism lost in its theories. As I understand it, Guru Gobind Singh ji was spiritually above any of this. Revenge was not his motive and that is one of the many reasons that we can only aspire to such greatness. Greed, hatred and revenge are what Sikhism fights (metaphorically) against. Am I wrong?[/I][/COLOR] If Niddar and Pritam said "seeking revenge" that may be their view of the situation. There are other sakhis of Gobind Singh in which he is reported to say that all of his Sikhs were his children. He was at a cross-road and he had to choose. He faced a dilemma. He had to choose either pacifism which would surely doom all of Sikhi and guarantee that Sikhism would perish completely. Or he had to choose to make war -- despite the cost and despite the violence - to guarantee the future of Sikhism. This is always the dilemma of war and it shows that the Hindu traditions were not what guided him. And this even when the conflicts began as a defense of Hindus and their way of life and beliefs. [I] [COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]I thank you very much and I will take your advice and follow this line to learn more. But I think that it should be noted that the practises of Nihang-Singhs (if this is what it is) is NOT the sikh way and this book should be read with caution. Am I wrong for saying that? I wish not to offend but question, is this right? [B]Will this book enlighten or hinder? [/B]What is the purpose of this book? All questions, I am sure could have been answered had I read the book before going to the signing.[/COLOR][/I] The book is controversial. Ironically not for the questions you raise. At the same time it is a starting point for you. It is making you think dispassionately and logically. Your questions strike to the core. One book is not going to explain everything. So continue your study. And you have company because there are Sikhs who question Nihang practices and beliefs openly. If you want to talk more about Chandi, let some of us know. Continue as a Sikh, a learner. Guru Fateh! [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Interfaith Dialogues
Nihang Sikhs In Sikhism
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top