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Gurbani (14-53)
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Gurbani (696-703)
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Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
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Gurbani (728-750)
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Gurbani (795-831)
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Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
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Kaafee (1014-1016)
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Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
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Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
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Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
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Gurmat Vichaar
Gurmat Vichar - Discussions
Naam And Name
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<blockquote data-quote="pk70" data-source="post: 93319" data-attributes="member: 5889"><p>One of my Gurbani students made the following observation on Naam in Gurbani. Name is usually a Proper Noun....and given to us by our Parents/authority figure/etc. Since God doesnt have any parents/authority over Him...He has NO PROPER NOUN as a "Name" as we all do. All the "Names" of God...are Descriptive/adjectives/...attributes of Him...and given by his followers..</p><p> <strong>I disagree. The Lord has created humans that only can name Him, actually they name for every thing. Gyani ji, you name it to what we don’t name. There are many proper names that qualify the persons or a thing. Guru Gobind Singh ji named his Singh’s to qualify their</strong> <strong>qualities. Theory of proper name in concept of Lord’s name is not acceptable, I call HIM quiet often Dad...... what kind of attribute it can be? ..As long as a word brings His memory into mind, it’s His Name…….. After all, only a word is used to click memory button.</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p>As such some call Him Raam..the All Permeating Lord....Rahim..the Giver...the Sustainer..The Beneficient..the Kind One..etc etc. These are called KIRTAM Names in Punajbi lingo.</p><p></p><p>In the light of this observation....my student observed that in Sukhmani ashtpadee 3..TERO NAO....Nirdhan ko tero Nao....usually translated as..To the POOR..wealth is YOUR NAME...to the shelterless..shelter is YOUR NAME...etc etc doesnt make sense.</p><p> <strong>It does make make sense Gyani jio, nirdhan means poor, so as per Gurbani, we are all poor without the Lord, do not take it as the world takes its meaning because Maya(including wealth) is useless for the Lord’s seeker</strong>.</p><p> <span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"> <strong><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=855&punjabi=t&id=36426#l36426" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪੰਨਾ </span>855, <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਤਰ </span>9</a></strong></span><strong><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=855&punjabi=t&id=36426#l36426" target="_blank">http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=855&punjabi=t&id=36426#l36426</a></span></strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਧਨਵੰਤਾ ਅਰੁ</span></span></strong> <strong><span style="color: #AB5555"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਿਰਧਨ</span></span></strong> <strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਨਈ ਤਾ ਕੀ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਕਾਨੀ ਰੇ </span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span></strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Ḏẖ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">anvan</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ṯ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ā ar nir</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ḏẖ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">an man▫ī </span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ṯ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ā kī kac</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ẖẖ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ū na kānī re.</span></strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: black">It gives no special consideration to either the rich or the poor.</span></strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: green"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ</span></span></strong></p><p> <strong><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=964&punjabi=t&id=41401#l41401" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪੰਨਾ </span>964, <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਤਰ </span>2</a></span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=964&punjabi=t&id=41401#l41401" target="_blank">http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=964&punjabi=t&id=41401#l41401</a></span></strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਵਿਸਰੈ ਨਾਉ ਸੁ</span></span></strong> <strong><span style="color: #AB5555"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਿਰਧਨ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ੁ ਕਾਂਢੀਐ </span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span></strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: black">Jis no visrai nā▫o so nir</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ḏẖ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">an kāʼnd</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ẖ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ī▫ai.</span></strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: black">One who forgets the Name, is known as a poor person.</span></strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: green"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਃ </span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: green"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'">5</span></span></strong></p><p> <strong>If whole concept is taken, it actually looks more beautiful</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p>The "NAME" as in the case of the POOR would be Someone who gives them WEALTH....a human donor.... Philanthropist.... like Bill Gates who follows GOD in his heart and wishes to donate his GOD given wealth among the POOR. This ACTION of Bill gates woudl be acting out God's<strong><u> KIRTAM NAME</u></strong> as THE BENEFICIENT..the GIVER..the SUSTAINER....</p><p> <strong>Not exactly, it has no value in Gurmat, giving away or charity is questioned many times and considered not important if the Lord is not remembered, in living in His love, purpose of the charity changes because</strong></p><p> <strong><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=56&punjabi=t&id=2288#l2288" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪੰਨਾ </span>56, <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਤਰ </span>13</a></span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=56&punjabi=t&id=2288#l2288" target="_blank">http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=56&punjabi=t&id=2288#l2288</a></span></strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪੁੰਨ</span></span></strong> <strong><span style="color: #AB5555"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਦਾਨ</span></span></strong> <strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਚੰਗਿਆਈਆ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਾਚੇ ਕਿਆ ਤਾਸੁ </span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span></strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: black">Punn </span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ḏ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ān c</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ẖ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ang▫ā▫ī▫ā bin sāc</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ẖ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">e ki▫ā </span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ṯ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ās.</span></strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: black">you may give donations to charity, and perform good deeds, but without the True One, what is the use of it all?</span></strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: green"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਃ </span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: green"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'">1</span></span> </strong></p><p> <strong>So only the Charity considered worth is Lord’s Name (Given by Guru as per Gurbani). Lord’s name projects Lord’s image in mind in simple words, that is the real charity the seeker seeks, seekers of wealth are shooting in their own feet in context of spiritual world because all we wish actually drag us deep into attachment</strong></p><p> </p><p> <strong>. </strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=91&punjabi=t&id=3675#l3675" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪੰਨਾ </span>91, <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਤਰ </span>15</a></span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=91&punjabi=t&id=3675#l3675" target="_blank">http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=91&punjabi=t&id=3675#l3675</a></span></strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਿਤ ਦੇਵਹੁ</span></span></strong> <strong><span style="color: #AB5555"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਦਾਨ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ੁ ਦਇਆਲ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਇਆ </span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span></strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: black">Ni</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ṯ</span></span></strong> <strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ḏ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">evhu </span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ḏ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ān </span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ḏ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">a▫i▫āl parab</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ẖ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> har nām </span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ḏẖ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">i▫ā▫i▫ā.</span></strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: black">O Merciful God, please grant me the gift of continual meditation on the Lord's Name.</span></strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: green"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਃ </span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: green"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'">4</span></span> </strong></p><p> <strong><u>Real GIVER is Him, Bill Gate is medium</u>, spiritual seekers take all done is executed by Him, including what they do. Following Guru Vaak stresses the above stated idea in concept of Lord and other deeds praised by the world. Guru is not met, Lord is not realized, acting like Hari Chand(or Bill Gate) will get praise from the world but what kind of use this praise has as per Gurbani? He is “Karta” Active Creator, His ferformance is seen through the mediums</strong></p><p> <strong><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=174&punjabi=t&id=7272#l7272" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪੰਨਾ </span>174, <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਤਰ </span>13</a></span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=174&punjabi=t&id=7272#l7272" target="_blank">http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=174&punjabi=t&id=7272#l7272</a></span></strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਆਪੇ ਜਗਤੁ ਉਪਾਇਦਾ ਮੇਰੇ ਗੋਵਿਦਾ ਹਰਿ</span></span></strong> <strong><span style="color: #AB5555"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਦਾਨ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ੁ ਦੇਵੈ ਸਭ ਮੰਗੀ ਜੀਉ </span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span></strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: black">Āpe jaga</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ṯ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> upā▫i</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ḏ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ā mere govi</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ḏ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ā har </span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ḏ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ān </span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ḏ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">evai sab</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ẖ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"> mangī jī▫o.</span></strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: black">He Himself created the world, O my Lord of the Universe; the Lord gives His gifts to all who beg for them.</span></strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: green"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਃ </span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: green"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'">4</span></span></strong></p><p> <strong><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%B0%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%A6%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਹਰੀਚੰਦੁ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਦਾਨੁ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%B0%E0%A9%88" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਰੈ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜਸੁ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B2%E0%A9%87%E0%A8%B5%E0%A9%88" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਲੇਵੈ</span> </a></span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span> </strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Harīcẖanḏ ḏān karai jas levai.</span> </strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Hari Chand gave in charity, and earned public praise.</span></span> </strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AC%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬਿਨੁ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%97%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%B0" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਗੁਰ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%A4%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਅੰਤੁ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%87" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪਾਇ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A8%AD%E0%A9%87%E0%A8%B5%E0%A9%88" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਅਭੇਵੈ</span> </a></span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span> </strong></p><p><strong></strong><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Bin gur anṯ na pā▫e abẖevai.</span> </p><p><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">But without the Guru, he did not find the limits of the Mysterious Lord.</span></span></p><p> <strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">You see, mere acts of Hari Chand remained useless in spiritual journey due to not having a true Guru as Guru convinces who actually deserves the credit of all this</span></span></strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p>Similarly whoever builds HOMES for the HOMELESS is follwiing Gods NAME as the Sustainer..builder..giver etc...</p><p></p><p>SO NIrdhan KO DHan tero Naao means to a Poor man to be Given wealth is like "acting out" One of your Names....</p><p> <strong>You have misunderstood Guru vaak totally. It means the Lord is real wealth</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p>NAAM should be WEALTH to ALL....why single out the POOR ONLY ??</p><p> </p><p> <strong>As stated above, all are poor, when His Name is obtained then real wealth is obtained, what wealth is this that is left here for others. In spiritual world, what is big deal in worldly show becomes meaningless for the Lord Seeker.</strong></p><p> Can the POOR survive ONLY on "Naam" ?? </p><p> <strong>It is no about biological needs, it’s about spiritual diet, be aware.</strong></p><p> Dont the wealthy need such "Naam" ?? </p><p> <strong>Wealthy of this world are the poorest if they don’t have Lord in mind, Gurbani stresses on it, it is a concept, either take the whole or don’t, and never take it in parts otherwise it will be horrible interpretation</strong></p><p> So to say ONLy the Nirdhan take your "Naam" as wealth is patronising translation...why wouldnt the welathy take it as "wealth" too ?? Since Gurbani is always correct..the transaltions interpretations must be faulty..</p><p> <strong>As put very correctly by Aman Singh ji on another thread, one is limited as per one’s limited knowledge, mastery over English doesn’t guarantee to make some one the best interpreter, Khuswant Singh is one good example of it and many others too fall in this category. I agree with you hundred percent, all translation I have come across is faulty regardless the author. Unfortunately, Gurbani literally cannot be translated in complete sense, only in essence, Guru Message can be conveyed. Worse things happen when translator fails to go beyond the word that carries much more weight then its appearance.</strong></p><p> <strong>Gyani jio, I have just presented my views as I understand Gurbani, I have not intended to prove you wrong at all, so forgive me if my words hurt you any way<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" />.</strong></p><p> <strong></strong></p><p> <strong>[/FONT]</strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pk70, post: 93319, member: 5889"] One of my Gurbani students made the following observation on Naam in Gurbani. Name is usually a Proper Noun....and given to us by our Parents/authority figure/etc. Since God doesnt have any parents/authority over Him...He has NO PROPER NOUN as a "Name" as we all do. All the "Names" of God...are Descriptive/adjectives/...attributes of Him...and given by his followers.. [B]I disagree. The Lord has created humans that only can name Him, actually they name for every thing. Gyani ji, you name it to what we don’t name. There are many proper names that qualify the persons or a thing. Guru Gobind Singh ji named his Singh’s to qualify their[/B] [B]qualities. Theory of proper name in concept of Lord’s name is not acceptable, I call HIM quiet often Dad...... what kind of attribute it can be? ..As long as a word brings His memory into mind, it’s His Name…….. After all, only a word is used to click memory button. [/B] As such some call Him Raam..the All Permeating Lord....Rahim..the Giver...the Sustainer..The Beneficient..the Kind One..etc etc. These are called KIRTAM Names in Punajbi lingo. In the light of this observation....my student observed that in Sukhmani ashtpadee 3..TERO NAO....Nirdhan ko tero Nao....usually translated as..To the POOR..wealth is YOUR NAME...to the shelterless..shelter is YOUR NAME...etc etc doesnt make sense. [B]It does make make sense Gyani jio, nirdhan means poor, so as per Gurbani, we are all poor without the Lord, do not take it as the world takes its meaning because Maya(including wealth) is useless for the Lord’s seeker[/B]. [FONT=AnmolUniPr] [B][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=855&punjabi=t&id=36426#l36426"][FONT=Raavi]ਪੰਨਾ [/FONT]855, [FONT=Raavi]ਸਤਰ [/FONT]9[/URL][/B][/FONT][B][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=855&punjabi=t&id=36426#l36426"][/URL][/FONT] [/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਧਨਵੰਤਾ ਅਰੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=AnmolUniPr] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#AB5555][FONT=Raavi]ਨਿਰਧਨ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=AnmolUniPr] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਮਨਈ ਤਾ ਕੀ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਕਾਨੀ ਰੇ [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]Ḏẖ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]anvan[/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]ṯ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ā ar nir[/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]ḏẖ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]an man▫ī [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]ṯ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ā kī kac[/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]ẖẖ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ū na kānī re.[/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=black]It gives no special consideration to either the rich or the poor.[/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=green][FONT=Raavi]ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=green][FONT=AnmolUniPr][/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=964&punjabi=t&id=41401#l41401"][FONT=Raavi]ਪੰਨਾ [/FONT]964, [FONT=Raavi]ਸਤਰ [/FONT]2[/URL][/FONT][/B][B][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=964&punjabi=t&id=41401#l41401"][/URL][/FONT] [/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਵਿਸਰੈ ਨਾਉ ਸੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=AnmolUniPr] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#AB5555][FONT=Raavi]ਨਿਰਧਨ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ੁ ਕਾਂਢੀਐ [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=black]Jis no visrai nā▫o so nir[/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]ḏẖ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]an kāʼnd[/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]ẖ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ī▫ai.[/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=black]One who forgets the Name, is known as a poor person.[/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=green][FONT=Raavi]ਮਃ [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=green][FONT=AnmolUniPr]5[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B]If whole concept is taken, it actually looks more beautiful [/B] The "NAME" as in the case of the POOR would be Someone who gives them WEALTH....a human donor.... Philanthropist.... like Bill Gates who follows GOD in his heart and wishes to donate his GOD given wealth among the POOR. This ACTION of Bill gates woudl be acting out God's[B][U] KIRTAM NAME[/U][/B] as THE BENEFICIENT..the GIVER..the SUSTAINER.... [B]Not exactly, it has no value in Gurmat, giving away or charity is questioned many times and considered not important if the Lord is not remembered, in living in His love, purpose of the charity changes because[/B] [B][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=56&punjabi=t&id=2288#l2288"][FONT=Raavi]ਪੰਨਾ [/FONT]56, [FONT=Raavi]ਸਤਰ [/FONT]13[/URL][/FONT][/B][B][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=56&punjabi=t&id=2288#l2288"][/URL][/FONT] [/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਪੁੰਨ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=AnmolUniPr] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#AB5555][FONT=Raavi]ਦਾਨ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=AnmolUniPr] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਚੰਗਿਆਈਆ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਾਚੇ ਕਿਆ ਤਾਸੁ [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=black]Punn [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]ḏ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ān c[/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]ẖ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ang▫ā▫ī▫ā bin sāc[/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]ẖ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]e ki▫ā [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]ṯ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ās.[/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=black]you may give donations to charity, and perform good deeds, but without the True One, what is the use of it all?[/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=green][FONT=Raavi]ਮਃ [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=green][FONT=AnmolUniPr]1[/FONT][/COLOR] [/B] [B]So only the Charity considered worth is Lord’s Name (Given by Guru as per Gurbani). Lord’s name projects Lord’s image in mind in simple words, that is the real charity the seeker seeks, seekers of wealth are shooting in their own feet in context of spiritual world because all we wish actually drag us deep into attachment[/B] [B]. [/B][B][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=91&punjabi=t&id=3675#l3675"][FONT=Raavi]ਪੰਨਾ [/FONT]91, [FONT=Raavi]ਸਤਰ [/FONT]15[/URL][/FONT][/B][B][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=91&punjabi=t&id=3675#l3675"][/URL][/FONT] [/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਨਿਤ ਦੇਵਹੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=AnmolUniPr] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#AB5555][FONT=Raavi]ਦਾਨ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ੁ ਦਇਆਲ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਇਆ [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=black]Ni[/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]ṯ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]ḏ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]evhu [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]ḏ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ān [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]ḏ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]a▫i▫āl parab[/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]ẖ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] har nām [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]ḏẖ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]i▫ā▫i▫ā.[/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=black]O Merciful God, please grant me the gift of continual meditation on the Lord's Name.[/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=green][FONT=Raavi]ਮਃ [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=green][FONT=AnmolUniPr]4[/FONT][/COLOR] [/B] [B][U]Real GIVER is Him, Bill Gate is medium[/U], spiritual seekers take all done is executed by Him, including what they do. Following Guru Vaak stresses the above stated idea in concept of Lord and other deeds praised by the world. Guru is not met, Lord is not realized, acting like Hari Chand(or Bill Gate) will get praise from the world but what kind of use this praise has as per Gurbani? He is “Karta” Active Creator, His ferformance is seen through the mediums[/B] [B][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=174&punjabi=t&id=7272#l7272"][FONT=Raavi]ਪੰਨਾ [/FONT]174, [FONT=Raavi]ਸਤਰ [/FONT]13[/URL][/FONT][/B][B][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=174&punjabi=t&id=7272#l7272"][/URL][/FONT] [/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਆਪੇ ਜਗਤੁ ਉਪਾਇਦਾ ਮੇਰੇ ਗੋਵਿਦਾ ਹਰਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=AnmolUniPr] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#AB5555][FONT=Raavi]ਦਾਨ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ੁ ਦੇਵੈ ਸਭ ਮੰਗੀ ਜੀਉ [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=black]Āpe jaga[/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]ṯ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] upā▫i[/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]ḏ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ā mere govi[/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]ḏ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ā har [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]ḏ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ān [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]ḏ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]evai sab[/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]ẖ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black] mangī jī▫o.[/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=black]He Himself created the world, O my Lord of the Universe; the Lord gives His gifts to all who beg for them.[/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=green][FONT=Raavi]ਮਃ [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=green][FONT=AnmolUniPr]4[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=maroon][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%B0%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%A6%E0%A9%81"][FONT=Raavi]ਹਰੀਚੰਦੁ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%81"][FONT=Raavi]ਦਾਨੁ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%B0%E0%A9%88"][FONT=Raavi]ਕਰੈ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%81"][FONT=Raavi]ਜਸੁ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B2%E0%A9%87%E0%A8%B5%E0%A9%88"][FONT=Raavi]ਲੇਵੈ[/FONT] [/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=maroon][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] [/B][B][FONT=Tahoma]Harīcẖanḏ ḏān karai jas levai.[/FONT] [/B][B][COLOR=navy][FONT=Tahoma]Hari Chand gave in charity, and earned public praise.[/FONT][/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=maroon][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AC%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%81"][FONT=Raavi]ਬਿਨੁ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%97%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%B0"][FONT=Raavi]ਗੁਰ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%A4%E0%A9%81"][FONT=Raavi]ਅੰਤੁ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8"][FONT=Raavi]ਨ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%87"][FONT=Raavi]ਪਾਇ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A8%AD%E0%A9%87%E0%A8%B5%E0%A9%88"][FONT=Raavi]ਅਭੇਵੈ[/FONT] [/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=maroon][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] [/B][FONT=Tahoma]Bin gur anṯ na pā▫e abẖevai.[/FONT] [COLOR=navy][FONT=Tahoma]But without the Guru, he did not find the limits of the Mysterious Lord.[/FONT][/COLOR] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]You see, mere acts of Hari Chand remained useless in spiritual journey due to not having a true Guru as Guru convinces who actually deserves the credit of all this[/FONT][/COLOR] [/B] Similarly whoever builds HOMES for the HOMELESS is follwiing Gods NAME as the Sustainer..builder..giver etc... SO NIrdhan KO DHan tero Naao means to a Poor man to be Given wealth is like "acting out" One of your Names.... [B]You have misunderstood Guru vaak totally. It means the Lord is real wealth [/B] NAAM should be WEALTH to ALL....why single out the POOR ONLY ?? [B]As stated above, all are poor, when His Name is obtained then real wealth is obtained, what wealth is this that is left here for others. In spiritual world, what is big deal in worldly show becomes meaningless for the Lord Seeker.[/B] Can the POOR survive ONLY on "Naam" ?? [B]It is no about biological needs, it’s about spiritual diet, be aware.[/B] Dont the wealthy need such "Naam" ?? [B]Wealthy of this world are the poorest if they don’t have Lord in mind, Gurbani stresses on it, it is a concept, either take the whole or don’t, and never take it in parts otherwise it will be horrible interpretation[/B] So to say ONLy the Nirdhan take your "Naam" as wealth is patronising translation...why wouldnt the welathy take it as "wealth" too ?? Since Gurbani is always correct..the transaltions interpretations must be faulty.. [B]As put very correctly by Aman Singh ji on another thread, one is limited as per one’s limited knowledge, mastery over English doesn’t guarantee to make some one the best interpreter, Khuswant Singh is one good example of it and many others too fall in this category. I agree with you hundred percent, all translation I have come across is faulty regardless the author. Unfortunately, Gurbani literally cannot be translated in complete sense, only in essence, Guru Message can be conveyed. Worse things happen when translator fails to go beyond the word that carries much more weight then its appearance.[/B] [B]Gyani jio, I have just presented my views as I understand Gurbani, I have not intended to prove you wrong at all, so forgive me if my words hurt you any way:). [/FONT][/B] [/QUOTE]
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Gurmat Vichaar
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Naam And Name
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