☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Hard Talk
Life Is Easier Without Karma - A Discussion
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Archived_member14" data-source="post: 169020" data-attributes="member: 586"><p><strong>Re: Life is easier without karma - a dicussion.</strong></p><p></p><p>Ambers ji,</p><p></p><p>Frankly, I thought we were simply going to discuss Karma and not this below. But I'll give a response even though I see it as philosophical and therefore not so useful.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Actually at the deeper level, the Buddhist understanding regarding conditionality and karma also points to the fact that “nothing can be controlled” and therefore leads to a kind of acceptance. But of course this comes as a result of understanding the nature of a present moment reality, by virtue of which, there is detachment. So really it is more about detachment rather than acceptance. And yes there is no element of determinism involved, since it is the Middle Way, and this directly does away with determinism on one hand and free-will on the other.</p><p></p><p>What you infer about the Sikh position cannot happen in reality, according to the Buddhist understanding regarding conditionality and non-control. One, thinking is not understanding, two, what the thinking thinks, this is dictated by the realities conditioning it from moment to moment. If therefore there is ignorance and craving, these dictate what one moment will be the object of thinking and what the next. </p><p></p><p>And we are moved from the moment we wake up to the time that we sleep, by ignorance and craving to think about this and that all day. When understanding arises in the moment it knows such realities as thinking, perception, consciousness, feeling and the attachment, aversion, kindness etc. which is the conditioning force. To follow instead the particular thought means therefore that no understanding has arisen to know any of this. No understanding and if no kindness, generosity, morality and such either, means that it must be ignorance and craving which weaves those thoughts and follows them. </p><p></p><p>Just this thought as “I will do good” if not understood as being only thinking, must be motivated in fact by attachment to results. How much more so what follows from reading some set of teachings and thinking subsequently to follow them. This is the problem of “self-view” which the Buddha taught about. And it is from this kind of understanding that life then becomes gradually easier. </p><p></p><p>Easier in the sense that we don't end up making good, yet another object of attachment. Easier in the sense that it is only with understanding the present moment that there is real detachment. Anything else is just more ignorance and craving and therefore can never be “easy”. Worse is when self-view is the motivating force, because this involves wrong thinking which sometimes leads to all kinds of wrong practices (rites and rituals). Even if this is just the thought, “I'll follow”. </p><p></p><p>Much evil is done by people following one religion or another as a result of the intention to do good.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>As I've tried to show above, I see a problem in the very idea of following, more so when this is in fact an abstract idea. </p><p>One very important understanding arrived at from a correct interpretation of the Buddha's teachings is that it is descriptive of the way things are and not prescriptive of actions to follow.</p><p></p><p>Should we now begin to discuss about what karma is?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Archived_member14, post: 169020, member: 586"] [b]Re: Life is easier without karma - a dicussion.[/b] Ambers ji, Frankly, I thought we were simply going to discuss Karma and not this below. But I'll give a response even though I see it as philosophical and therefore not so useful. Actually at the deeper level, the Buddhist understanding regarding conditionality and karma also points to the fact that “nothing can be controlled” and therefore leads to a kind of acceptance. But of course this comes as a result of understanding the nature of a present moment reality, by virtue of which, there is detachment. So really it is more about detachment rather than acceptance. And yes there is no element of determinism involved, since it is the Middle Way, and this directly does away with determinism on one hand and free-will on the other. What you infer about the Sikh position cannot happen in reality, according to the Buddhist understanding regarding conditionality and non-control. One, thinking is not understanding, two, what the thinking thinks, this is dictated by the realities conditioning it from moment to moment. If therefore there is ignorance and craving, these dictate what one moment will be the object of thinking and what the next. And we are moved from the moment we wake up to the time that we sleep, by ignorance and craving to think about this and that all day. When understanding arises in the moment it knows such realities as thinking, perception, consciousness, feeling and the attachment, aversion, kindness etc. which is the conditioning force. To follow instead the particular thought means therefore that no understanding has arisen to know any of this. No understanding and if no kindness, generosity, morality and such either, means that it must be ignorance and craving which weaves those thoughts and follows them. Just this thought as “I will do good” if not understood as being only thinking, must be motivated in fact by attachment to results. How much more so what follows from reading some set of teachings and thinking subsequently to follow them. This is the problem of “self-view” which the Buddha taught about. And it is from this kind of understanding that life then becomes gradually easier. Easier in the sense that we don't end up making good, yet another object of attachment. Easier in the sense that it is only with understanding the present moment that there is real detachment. Anything else is just more ignorance and craving and therefore can never be “easy”. Worse is when self-view is the motivating force, because this involves wrong thinking which sometimes leads to all kinds of wrong practices (rites and rituals). Even if this is just the thought, “I'll follow”. Much evil is done by people following one religion or another as a result of the intention to do good. As I've tried to show above, I see a problem in the very idea of following, more so when this is in fact an abstract idea. One very important understanding arrived at from a correct interpretation of the Buddha's teachings is that it is descriptive of the way things are and not prescriptive of actions to follow. Should we now begin to discuss about what karma is? [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Hard Talk
Life Is Easier Without Karma - A Discussion
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top