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ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
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Is It Possible For A Mona To Achieve Samadhi?
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<blockquote data-quote="Archived_member14" data-source="post: 140811" data-attributes="member: 586"><p>Bhagat ji,</p><p></p><p></p><p>========</p><p></p><p>C: I have a problem with it for several reasons.</p><p></p><p>1. An attempt to explain Samadhi by making reference to different ‘schools’ gives the impression almost, that different causes can lead to the same result.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Confused: I have come to understand, although only intellectually, that different causes lead to different results. Each attitude of mind conditions a corresponding course of action aimed at a goal particular to it, regardless of what anyone believes and thinks he is aiming for. </p><p></p><p>=========</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Confused: I am not sure that I understand what you are saying.</p><p>Do you mean that the idea for example, that seeing is a mental reality and visible object is a physical reality and that the former experience the latter is wrong? Are you saying that in reality there is just the single phenomena of ‘seeing-that which is seen’, and that to consider them as two distinct realities is expression of dualistic thinking?</p><p></p><p>=========</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Confused: There is never a time when there is no consciousness arising. When fast asleep, one is not conscious of the objects through the five sense doors and such as when dreaming, those created by the mind. But consciousness there is and this is called ‘life continuum’. The object of this is the same as the one which conditioned rebirth and that which will be at the moment of death. This object can’t be known for obvious reasons, but this is not reason to think that it is not there.</p><p></p><p>Life-continuum can’t experience any other object, and in a way, this makes it what it is. In the same way, the consciousness during samadhi is what it is in part due to repeated taking one particular object which is what allows it to remain ‘concentrated’. To suggest that this leads to alertness, is saying that there could be the experience of *other* objects while still in samadhi. The fact is that once a consciousness arises to experience any other object, then samadhi can’t be there anymore, since the object which determined the samadhi can’t exist at the same time as this new object.</p><p></p><p>It is common that people take the particular concept and build wrong ideas around it. </p><p></p><p>=========</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Confused: Jhana is a state of deep concentration and calm, but it is the latter which is what defines it. Calm here means not the absence of certain undesirable states such as in the idea of relaxation, but the presence of wholesome mental factors. Which is why it all begins with the development of good in daily life, and crucial is the understanding of the difference between a wholesome state of mind and the unwholesome. And when it comes to developing this understanding further, at some point the need arises to be able to recollect one particular object (such as, breath, death, morality, loving kindness and so on) often enough, until it can then be taken repeatedly to cause deep concentration or samadhi. But even this is no Jhana yet. </p><p></p><p>Jhana is a state not of the sensuous realm, but beyond. And so after achieving deep concentration, the wisdom associated with this would see the need to overcome certain mental factors liable to draw the attention towards sense experiences. Stage by stage these factors, beginning with applied thought, are eliminated, where one then identifies levels of Jhana as first, second and so forth. </p><p></p><p>And so is it a state of reduced thought level? You could say so, but I most certainly wouldn’t define Jhana this way.</p><p></p><p>=======</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Confused: Again, not so simple. </p><p>Right understanding is of many levels, developing in stages. It must begin with intellectual understanding, which then leads to direct understanding and to penetration. The actual insight into the three characteristics of impermanence, suffering and non-self is the highest level of penetration just before enlightenment.</p><p></p><p>Attachment leads to suffering in that it conditions continued existence. So the meaning of suffering here is not just physical and mental pain, but everything that we know. Attachment itself *is* suffering, so too is pleasure or happiness and also all the good states, such as morality, kindness, calm and so on. </p><p></p><p>But of course, like I said, understanding is developed stage by stage and this includes coming to know attachment for what it is. This leads at some point to recognize for example, that aversion is related to attachment in that because one does not get what one wants or that one is faced with an undesirable object, aversion arises. This is why aversion is sometimes said to be a species of craving.</p><p></p><p>========</p><p>?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Confused: No.</p><p>The object of Right Understanding leading to insight (as opposed to Jhana), must be a mental or physical phenomena. Paying attention to the experience of “various things” is a case of having concepts as object and would be just more thinking. Likewise paying attention to the “various thoughts” that unfold is just another thought chain. This is not awareness of mental or physical phenomena. Indeed the mistake is in the very idea of “paying attention”.</p><p></p><p>‘Paying attention’ is an idea conceived of as a result of wrong understanding. If indeed wisdom were to arise to know the present moment reality, it would know that this came about not by any deliberate paying of attention. At the moment of thinking to pay attention, this kind of wisdom would know the ‘thinking’ itself, which would lead to not following that very thought suggestion. And this shows that the thought (to pay attention) when acted upon, is conditioned not by wisdom, but by ignorance and desire. And this is exactly what leads to the ‘wrong practice’ of paying attention to ‘various things’ and ‘thoughts unfolding’.</p><p></p><p>Yet this is exactly what all meditators everywhere are taught to do in the name of Buddhist practice. And is what I was trying to get across to Harry ji in another post. :-/</p><p></p><p>Bhagat ji, as suggested, this is straying away from the main topic. I don’t think therefore that we should continue this particular discussion here. What say you?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Archived_member14, post: 140811, member: 586"] Bhagat ji, ======== C: I have a problem with it for several reasons. 1. An attempt to explain Samadhi by making reference to different ‘schools’ gives the impression almost, that different causes can lead to the same result. Confused: I have come to understand, although only intellectually, that different causes lead to different results. Each attitude of mind conditions a corresponding course of action aimed at a goal particular to it, regardless of what anyone believes and thinks he is aiming for. ========= Confused: I am not sure that I understand what you are saying. Do you mean that the idea for example, that seeing is a mental reality and visible object is a physical reality and that the former experience the latter is wrong? Are you saying that in reality there is just the single phenomena of ‘seeing-that which is seen’, and that to consider them as two distinct realities is expression of dualistic thinking? ========= Confused: There is never a time when there is no consciousness arising. When fast asleep, one is not conscious of the objects through the five sense doors and such as when dreaming, those created by the mind. But consciousness there is and this is called ‘life continuum’. The object of this is the same as the one which conditioned rebirth and that which will be at the moment of death. This object can’t be known for obvious reasons, but this is not reason to think that it is not there. Life-continuum can’t experience any other object, and in a way, this makes it what it is. In the same way, the consciousness during samadhi is what it is in part due to repeated taking one particular object which is what allows it to remain ‘concentrated’. To suggest that this leads to alertness, is saying that there could be the experience of *other* objects while still in samadhi. The fact is that once a consciousness arises to experience any other object, then samadhi can’t be there anymore, since the object which determined the samadhi can’t exist at the same time as this new object. It is common that people take the particular concept and build wrong ideas around it. ========= Confused: Jhana is a state of deep concentration and calm, but it is the latter which is what defines it. Calm here means not the absence of certain undesirable states such as in the idea of relaxation, but the presence of wholesome mental factors. Which is why it all begins with the development of good in daily life, and crucial is the understanding of the difference between a wholesome state of mind and the unwholesome. And when it comes to developing this understanding further, at some point the need arises to be able to recollect one particular object (such as, breath, death, morality, loving kindness and so on) often enough, until it can then be taken repeatedly to cause deep concentration or samadhi. But even this is no Jhana yet. Jhana is a state not of the sensuous realm, but beyond. And so after achieving deep concentration, the wisdom associated with this would see the need to overcome certain mental factors liable to draw the attention towards sense experiences. Stage by stage these factors, beginning with applied thought, are eliminated, where one then identifies levels of Jhana as first, second and so forth. And so is it a state of reduced thought level? You could say so, but I most certainly wouldn’t define Jhana this way. ======= Confused: Again, not so simple. Right understanding is of many levels, developing in stages. It must begin with intellectual understanding, which then leads to direct understanding and to penetration. The actual insight into the three characteristics of impermanence, suffering and non-self is the highest level of penetration just before enlightenment. Attachment leads to suffering in that it conditions continued existence. So the meaning of suffering here is not just physical and mental pain, but everything that we know. Attachment itself *is* suffering, so too is pleasure or happiness and also all the good states, such as morality, kindness, calm and so on. But of course, like I said, understanding is developed stage by stage and this includes coming to know attachment for what it is. This leads at some point to recognize for example, that aversion is related to attachment in that because one does not get what one wants or that one is faced with an undesirable object, aversion arises. This is why aversion is sometimes said to be a species of craving. ======== ? Confused: No. The object of Right Understanding leading to insight (as opposed to Jhana), must be a mental or physical phenomena. Paying attention to the experience of “various things” is a case of having concepts as object and would be just more thinking. Likewise paying attention to the “various thoughts” that unfold is just another thought chain. This is not awareness of mental or physical phenomena. Indeed the mistake is in the very idea of “paying attention”. ‘Paying attention’ is an idea conceived of as a result of wrong understanding. If indeed wisdom were to arise to know the present moment reality, it would know that this came about not by any deliberate paying of attention. At the moment of thinking to pay attention, this kind of wisdom would know the ‘thinking’ itself, which would lead to not following that very thought suggestion. And this shows that the thought (to pay attention) when acted upon, is conditioned not by wisdom, but by ignorance and desire. And this is exactly what leads to the ‘wrong practice’ of paying attention to ‘various things’ and ‘thoughts unfolding’. Yet this is exactly what all meditators everywhere are taught to do in the name of Buddhist practice. And is what I was trying to get across to Harry ji in another post. :-/ Bhagat ji, as suggested, this is straying away from the main topic. I don’t think therefore that we should continue this particular discussion here. What say you? [/QUOTE]
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