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ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
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Is God A Universal Principle?
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<blockquote data-quote="pk70" data-source="post: 100377" data-attributes="member: 5889"><p><strong>Dear Sangat Ji, </strong></p><p> <strong>Kindly judge with your own observation who is who? If one is questioned, does the questioner become “fool” because he asks question to the author to explain his own assumptions? If instead of answering, he implies “fool” in the following quote, what you should think of him? A person who have understood rightfully Divine Knowledge?</strong></p><p> Dear All,</p><p></p><p>The spiritual ignorance referred to here is not the lack of information but a deep seated misperception of reality. <strong>(VSGrewal Ji)</strong></p><p> <strong>One is trying to understand that Reality through Gurbani; other is making his assumptions about God a reality, who has fallen for misconception? His failure to answer questions shows the person is into misconception that all should hear his sermons without a question because questioning means becoming fools(in his mind).</strong></p><p> </p><p> Divine Knowledge is the awareness and understanding of facts, truths or information gained in the form of learning</p><p> <strong>It depends if that learning occurs as per the knowledge of those who experienced Ultimate Truth -Satt, it is fine, <u>if it is conceived with one individuals’ own mind theory, it cannot be called reception of Devine knowledge</u></strong></p><p> . The purpose of Divine knowledge is to find the Truth and develop inner cleanliness by subjugating animal instincts and developing godly instincts or virtues.</p><p> <strong>Very true, if it occurs only by understanding the divine knowledge of the enlightened ones about the ultimate reality otherwise there are a lot out there who are beating drums of their narrow concepts of Ultimate reality, they must be opposed strongly</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong></strong><a href="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/guru-nanak-dev/" target="_blank">Guru Nanak</a> does not want to call a Moorakh bad but does not hesitate to call him a fool in Asa Di Var.</p><p> <strong>Very true, again the application of the quote from Guru should be analyzed,. Who asks the questions triggered from unacceptable concept of God in context Gurbani, how on the questioners such quote is applicable? And who is good at dodging relevant questions, isn’t it applicable to him more than anyone but I wouldn’t stoop that low and will not declare that.</strong></p><p> <strong><u> When relevant questions were put to Guru Nanak, he doesn’t call others Murakh(fools</u>)( SIDHGOST) but answers them one by one unlike our respected member VSGrewal Ji who has terribly failed to answer any of the questions with reasoning he boasts about and now is implying Gurbani to call the questioners “fools”</strong><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮੰਦਾ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਿਸੈ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਆਖੀਐ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪੜਿ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਅਖਰੁ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਏਹੋ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬੁਝੀਐ</span> ॥[/FONT]<span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮੂਰਖੈ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾਲਿ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਲੁਝੀਐ</span> ॥[/FONT] </p><p></p><p><em>Mandaa Kisai Na Aakheyaa Parh Akhar Eho Bujheyaa, Moorkhai Naal Na Lujhee-aa.</em></p><p></p><p>Do not call anyone bad. Read these words, and understand! Don't argue with ignorant of spirituality. -----<a href="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/guru-nanak-dev/" target="_blank">Guru Nanak</a>, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 473-13(quote by VSGrewal Ji)</p><p></p><p> <strong>SPN Sangat can well judge in what context this quote is applicable.</strong></p><p></p><p>This Sabd of Kabir in Raag Gond again ponders on similar personalities;</p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸੰਤੁ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਿਲੈ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਿਛੁ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸੁਨੀਐ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਹੀਐ</span> ॥[/FONT]<span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਿਲੈ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਅਸੰਤੁ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਸਟਿ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਰਿ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਰਹੀਐ</span> ॥[/FONT]<span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬਾਬਾ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬੋਲਨਾ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਿਆ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਹੀਐ</span> ॥[/FONT]<span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜੈਸੇ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਰਾਮ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾਮ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਰਵਿ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਰਹੀਐ</span> ॥[/FONT] <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸੰਤਨ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਿਉ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬੋਲੇ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਉਪਕਾਰੀ</span> ॥[/FONT]<span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮੂਰਖ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਿਉ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬੋਲੇ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਝਖ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਾਰੀ</span> ॥[/FONT]<span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬੋਲਤ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬੋਲਤ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬਢਹਿ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬਿਕਾਰਾ</span> ॥[/FONT]<span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬਿਨੁ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬੋਲੇ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਿਆ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਰਹਿ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬੀਚਾਰਾ</span> ॥[/FONT]<span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਹੁ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਬੀਰ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਛੂਛਾ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਘਟੁ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬੋਲੈ</span> ॥[/FONT]<span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਭਰਿਆ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਹੋਇ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸੁ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਬਹੁ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਡੋਲੈ</span> ॥[/FONT]</p><p><em>San</em><em>ṯ[/FONT] milai kic</em><em>ẖẖ[/FONT] sunī¬ai kahī¬ai, Milai asan</em><em>ṯ[/FONT] masat kar rahī¬ai, Bābā bolnā ki¬ā kahī¬ai, Jaisė rām nām rav rahī¬ai, San</em><em>ṯ[/FONT]an si¬o bolė upkārī, Mūrak</em><em>ẖ[/FONT] si¬o bolė j</em><em>ẖ[/FONT]ak</em><em>ẖ[/FONT] mārī, Bola</em><em>ṯ[/FONT] bola</em><em>ṯ[/FONT] bad</em><em>ẖ[/FONT]eh bikārā, Bin bolė ki¬ā karahi bīc</em><em>ẖ[/FONT]ārā, Kaho Kabīr c</em><em>ẖẖ[/FONT]ūc</em><em>ẖẖ[/FONT]ā g</em><em>ẖ[/FONT]at bolai, B</em><em>ẖ[/FONT]ari¬ā ho¬ė so kabahu na dolai. </em></p><p></p><p>When you meet a Saint, talk to him and listen. Meeting with an unsaintly person, just remain silent. O father, if I speak what words should I utter? Speak such words, by which you may remain absorbed in the Name of the God. Speaking with the Saints, one becomes benevolent. To speak with a fool is to babble uselessly. By speaking and only speaking, corruption only increases. If I do not speak, what can the poor wretch do? Says Kabir, the empty pitcher makes noise, but that which is full makes no sound. -----Kabir, Raag Gond, AGGS, Page, 870</p><p> <strong>Some satisfied with their own misconceptions and consider themselves Kabir Ji who was well enlightened. Notable fact is that Kabir Ji was not silent when he faced questions; actually he keeps questioning people who were mired with misconceptions just as some call ultimate Reality-God a “principle. On this forum, when one is trying to preach his own cooked up Sikhi, I call all to question such preacher-pundit because whatever he says, he has failed horribly to support it from Gurbani, and stoop low to imply Gurbani to call questioners “fools”, imagine the intent of the person! I leave all on you.</strong></p><p> </p><p> <strong>Regards</strong></p><p> <strong>G Singh</strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pk70, post: 100377, member: 5889"] [B]Dear Sangat Ji, [/B] [B]Kindly judge with your own observation who is who? If one is questioned, does the questioner become “fool” because he asks question to the author to explain his own assumptions? If instead of answering, he implies “fool” in the following quote, what you should think of him? A person who have understood rightfully Divine Knowledge?[/B] Dear All, The spiritual ignorance referred to here is not the lack of information but a deep seated misperception of reality. [B](VSGrewal Ji)[/B] [B]One is trying to understand that Reality through Gurbani; other is making his assumptions about God a reality, who has fallen for misconception? His failure to answer questions shows the person is into misconception that all should hear his sermons without a question because questioning means becoming fools(in his mind).[/B] Divine Knowledge is the awareness and understanding of facts, truths or information gained in the form of learning [B]It depends if that learning occurs as per the knowledge of those who experienced Ultimate Truth -Satt, it is fine, [U]if it is conceived with one individuals’ own mind theory, it cannot be called reception of Devine knowledge[/U][/B] . The purpose of Divine knowledge is to find the Truth and develop inner cleanliness by subjugating animal instincts and developing godly instincts or virtues. [B]Very true, if it occurs only by understanding the divine knowledge of the enlightened ones about the ultimate reality otherwise there are a lot out there who are beating drums of their narrow concepts of Ultimate reality, they must be opposed strongly [/B][URL="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/guru-nanak-dev/"]Guru Nanak[/URL] does not want to call a Moorakh bad but does not hesitate to call him a fool in Asa Di Var. [B]Very true, again the application of the quote from Guru should be analyzed,. Who asks the questions triggered from unacceptable concept of God in context Gurbani, how on the questioners such quote is applicable? And who is good at dodging relevant questions, isn’t it applicable to him more than anyone but I wouldn’t stoop that low and will not declare that.[/B] [B][U] When relevant questions were put to Guru Nanak, he doesn’t call others Murakh(fools[/U])( SIDHGOST) but answers them one by one unlike our respected member VSGrewal Ji who has terribly failed to answer any of the questions with reasoning he boasts about and now is implying Gurbani to call the questioners “fools”[/B][FONT=Raavi] ਮੰਦਾ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਕਿਸੈ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਨ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਆਖੀਐ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਪੜਿ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਅਖਰੁ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਏਹੋ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਬੁਝੀਐ[/FONT] ॥[/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਮੂਰਖੈ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਨਾਲਿ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਨ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਲੁਝੀਐ[/FONT] ॥[/FONT] [I]Mandaa Kisai Na Aakheyaa Parh Akhar Eho Bujheyaa, Moorkhai Naal Na Lujhee-aa.[/I] Do not call anyone bad. Read these words, and understand! Don't argue with ignorant of spirituality. -----[URL="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/guru-nanak-dev/"]Guru Nanak[/URL], Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 473-13(quote by VSGrewal Ji) [B]SPN Sangat can well judge in what context this quote is applicable.[/B] This Sabd of Kabir in Raag Gond again ponders on similar personalities; [FONT=Raavi]ਸੰਤੁ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਮਿਲੈ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਕਿਛੁ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਸੁਨੀਐ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਕਹੀਐ[/FONT] ॥[/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਮਿਲੈ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਅਸੰਤੁ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਮਸਟਿ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਕਰਿ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਰਹੀਐ[/FONT] ॥[/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਬਾਬਾ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਬੋਲਨਾ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਕਿਆ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਕਹੀਐ[/FONT] ॥[/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਜੈਸੇ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਰਾਮ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਨਾਮ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਰਵਿ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਰਹੀਐ[/FONT] ॥[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਸੰਤਨ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਸਿਉ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਬੋਲੇ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਉਪਕਾਰੀ[/FONT] ॥[/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਮੂਰਖ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਸਿਉ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਬੋਲੇ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਝਖ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਮਾਰੀ[/FONT] ॥[/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਬੋਲਤ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਬੋਲਤ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਬਢਹਿ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਬਿਕਾਰਾ[/FONT] ॥[/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਬਿਨੁ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਬੋਲੇ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਕਿਆ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਕਰਹਿ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਬੀਚਾਰਾ[/FONT] ॥[/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਕਹੁ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਕਬੀਰ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਛੂਛਾ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਘਟੁ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਬੋਲੈ[/FONT] ॥[/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਭਰਿਆ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਹੋਇ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਸੁ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਕਬਹੁ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਨ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਡੋਲੈ[/FONT] ॥[/FONT] [I]San[/I][I]ṯ[/FONT] milai kic[/I][I]ẖẖ[/FONT] sunī¬ai kahī¬ai, Milai asan[/I][I]ṯ[/FONT] masat kar rahī¬ai, Bābā bolnā ki¬ā kahī¬ai, Jaisė rām nām rav rahī¬ai, San[/I][I]ṯ[/FONT]an si¬o bolė upkārī, Mūrak[/I][I]ẖ[/FONT] si¬o bolė j[/I][I]ẖ[/FONT]ak[/I][I]ẖ[/FONT] mārī, Bola[/I][I]ṯ[/FONT] bola[/I][I]ṯ[/FONT] bad[/I][I]ẖ[/FONT]eh bikārā, Bin bolė ki¬ā karahi bīc[/I][I]ẖ[/FONT]ārā, Kaho Kabīr c[/I][I]ẖẖ[/FONT]ūc[/I][I]ẖẖ[/FONT]ā g[/I][I]ẖ[/FONT]at bolai, B[/I][I]ẖ[/FONT]ari¬ā ho¬ė so kabahu na dolai. [/I] When you meet a Saint, talk to him and listen. Meeting with an unsaintly person, just remain silent. O father, if I speak what words should I utter? Speak such words, by which you may remain absorbed in the Name of the God. Speaking with the Saints, one becomes benevolent. To speak with a fool is to babble uselessly. By speaking and only speaking, corruption only increases. If I do not speak, what can the poor wretch do? Says Kabir, the empty pitcher makes noise, but that which is full makes no sound. -----Kabir, Raag Gond, AGGS, Page, 870 [B]Some satisfied with their own misconceptions and consider themselves Kabir Ji who was well enlightened. Notable fact is that Kabir Ji was not silent when he faced questions; actually he keeps questioning people who were mired with misconceptions just as some call ultimate Reality-God a “principle. On this forum, when one is trying to preach his own cooked up Sikhi, I call all to question such preacher-pundit because whatever he says, he has failed horribly to support it from Gurbani, and stoop low to imply Gurbani to call questioners “fools”, imagine the intent of the person! I leave all on you.[/B] [B]Regards[/B] [B]G Singh[/B] [/QUOTE]
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