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Is Dasam Granth Guru Ji's Bani?

BhagatSingh

SPNer
Apr 24, 2006
2,921
1,655
Dear Sir or Madame,
That's Sir to you. ;)
In terms of evolution or how the Universe came into existence, many websites address the Sikh view of this issue. The line of Gurbani below is the general Sikh view, it is not very detailed and may not answer every question. However, a Sikh does not continuously ask questions like “How did the world come to exist?”, or “How did God create the Universe?” A Sikh recognizes and worships God and lives an honest and simple life.
“First, Allah created the Light; then, by His Creative Power, He made all mortal beings.” Page 1349 Line 19
-Devotee Kabir
Ok you say a Sikh does not continuously ask questions. Why? Does SGGS say don't ask questions?

I believe that this line is a very special line. It definitely does not follow with what is written in the Dasam Granth. I would definitely listen to the Guru Granth Sahib over the Dasam Granth as the Guru Granth Sahib is the official Sikh Guru. A line of Gurbani like this is the Guru’s blessing of sweet molasses.
:wink:
That's right it doesn't follow SGGS!
So two possibilities:
1. Guru Gobind Singh ji had different philosophies than Guru Nanak
2. He did not write this book.
 

sachbol

SPNer
Feb 12, 2010
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Khalsaji,

I have downloaded teeka of Dasam Granth by Baba Virsa Singhji. If DasamGranth and Charitropakhyan in particular is Baani of Guru Gobind Singhji then we are not Sikhs. We must otherwise accept that Sikhs are part of Hinduism as it is vulgar in Charitropakhyan. I was a strong believer that it is Baani of Dasam Patsah but no I dont believe now.

Can any body do Katha on Charitropakhyan in Gurdwara in Hazooi of SGGS and presence of our daughters and sisters?
 

ballym

SPNer
May 19, 2006
260
335
Dr. Jodh singh gave following points( I heard his lecture in a samaagam where all Pro -Dasam Granth People including Anmol Singh were there:

1. SGGS Ji also refer to Kaam
2. veda refer to Yam Yami samvaad
3. many Sikh Historians have proved it.

Point one and two: Both SGGS Ji and VEDA recognise the problem and give us direction about it. .... in a verse or two..... Just gives direction.
In Dasam Granth, it gives Graphic details of the act. What is its purpose. NO OE HAS EVER DISCUSSED IT OR JUSTIFIED IT.
I am not asking for it to embarass them but get to the point... WHY is it there.
As far as I could find, there is only one poem about Yama Yami relationship in whole of Puran/ Ved. Its authenticity is also doubtful. Moreover, even if it is the TRUTH, it is very few general lines... no graphic details.
Point Three: We should have more research as we are better equipped with research methodology. All claims are basically guided by one person. there have been opposite claims also. matter is not settled.
No one has given reason for graphic details.
Giani Sant Singh Maskeen Ji's lecture on Paatshahi10.org also refers to SGGS Ji more than Dasam Granth. Let us have direct discussion.
Where is real matter?
Why Guru Gobind singh ji assumed so many poet's name.
1. Why any other name...
2. If other name is taken, then why change it again to a different name.
3. Why Language becomes different. Is it different with each poet... or a group of poets.

Why can not we think that all Ph. D thesis written were guided by few people having a motive?

Does any Ph. D thesis answers these points???????
 

sunmukh

(Previously Himmat Singh)
SPNer
Feb 19, 2010
108
136
UK
10th Guru ji did not need to hide behind false names.
10th Guru ji was honest, truthful, frank, forthright.
10th Guru ji did not believe in avatars, demi-gods etc.
No Sikh Guru accepted Puranas Vedas or Koran. They all believed in God as the teacher. Dasam Granth is replete with extracted tales from Hindu texts.
10th Guru ji followed example of 5th to 9th Guru ji and recognised clear supremacy and complete capability of SGGS ji as a spiritual leader, but chose to add the wisdom of his father.
10th Guru ji had no need to compete with SGGS ji by creating his own bani.
10th Guru ji brought unity to Sikhs. 80,000+ attended vaisaki mela of 1699.

Others have always had a need to destroy unity of Sikhs. No true Sikh believes in avataars, demi-gods and no sikh needs any sex stories to explain lust.

Saying Sikhs who do not want Dasam Granth in their Gurudwaras are non-sikhs is ****hest from the truth. The ones who believe in texts full of Hindu deities are closer to being non-sikh

All Sikhs have faith in One Guru, 10 previous Gurus and One God.
Sikhs simply respect teachings of all other religions, but do not accept them and never will. To force it upon them is the easiest way to create disunity that RSS, BJP, Ghandi and all others failed to do. Now traitors are splitting Sikhs, like Hindu Dogra generals in anglo-sikh wars. The enemy within are the people who claim all else to be false but themselves cannot put faith in One Guru. Guru maneo Granth, and God will help Sikhs who do this. Have faith in Guru, One Guru.
This year there will be two, but how many in 25 years when sanghat has been listening to Hindu tales for a generation.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
Mentor
Writer
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Jul 4, 2004
7,708
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KUALA LUMPUR MALAYSIA
This is the REALITY of 1900's..Just 3 "Singh Sabhas" under the SARKAREE Sir Baba Khem Singh Bedi...formed the so called Sodhak Comittee to "find" the "authentic" DG..while the 118 Member LAHORE SINGH SABHA OPPOSED this....

Now the Exact Same situation exists...so called "Panthic" orgs, socities, sants and sipahis (actually neither sant nor sipahi) etc are of the Baba khem Singh bedi type...

Dr Jasbir Singh Mann writes:

JasbirMann@aol.com

My Input,

1.Which dasam Granth they will make as base for discussion. where is authentic version?

2.The text of Sri Dasam Granth is not fixed . Sodhak committee fixed the text from 32 recessions but were unable to get any authentic version as the Khalsa Akhbar was requesting them to find the original or any earliest version. Sodhak committee was unable to answer this important Question in 1896. Read the attachment. or click on http://www.globalsikhstudies.<wbr>net/pdf/Jasbir%20S%20Mann%<wbr>201895%20letters%20published%<wbr>20in%20Khalsa%20Akhbar.pdf
a)The Gurmat Granth Pracharak Sabha( please note this Sabha was Part of AmritsarSingh sabha Controlled by By Baba Khem Singh Bedi has only 3 singh sabas with them) and its members which formed sodhak committee who compiled this So called Dasam granth fell into Oblivion after submitting their report. Evidence shows sikhs did not accept this document.
b)Lahore Singh Sabha With 118 associations DID NOT Recognize this newly Dasam Pathshai Guru Granth Sahib finaly compiled by sodhak committee.Read 3 articles published in their news paper Khalsa Akhbar Lahore against this committee on October4th,25th&november1st 1895. Summary of these article Indicates that Lahore singh sabh was requesting Giani sardool Singh Secretory of Sodhak Committee to find out andauthenticate which is original Dasam Granth out of various dasam Granths they used forcorrection.



3.After 114 years Question remains the same. where and which is the authentic version? Bir now being related to Mani singh has many academic issues.Banis as found in Guru Granth Sahib are divided author wise. The academic analysis shows that this is the Banno version of authentic Guru Granth Sahib andnot the Damdami version. Banis of Gurus consistent with Banno version includingapocrypical Shabads of Guru Nanak (Jit Dar Lakh Mohamada, Bhai Atash Aab.),
two Mira Bai shabad, Ratan Mala, hakikat Raja shivnav ki and Ink recipe
Therefore, it is a Banno version and cannot be associated with Mani Singh,s name
who compiled and wrote Damadami Bir in 1706AD. Why would a person write the
Banno version after 20years? Therefore, based on academic analysis, this Bir
cannot be related to Bhai Mani Singh. Rather it will be disgraceful to label that this
Bir’ first part was written by Bhai Mani Singh in 1713 AD as noted in end. This Bir has no colophon).
• One of Alam Kavi’s Dohra attributed to 10th Guru.
• This Bir ends at Hikiats as mentioned by Giani Gian Singh. Zafarnama is written in
Persian only. Then who wrote it in Punjabi in different Granth?
• The textual analysis of the Bhai Mani Singh Bir clearly shows that the Chhand
count of this Bir is different from the presently published Dasam Granth. For
example Ram Avtar in this Bir has 860 Chhands, but in the presently published
Dasam Granth such count is 864. Krishan Avtar Saloks are 2447 in this Granth
while in the published Granth are 2492 in number. Charitro Pakhyan has 7560
Saloks in this Bir while presently published Granth has 7555 Saloks. There is no
Swayeeay 33, Shabad Hazarey, and Khalsa Mehma in this Bir which are seen in
published Bir.

Textual Analysis of Bhai Mani Singh Bir can be read at two sources 1.As reported by Dr. Jaggi in “Dasam Granth Authenticity” and “Bhai Mani Singh Jeevani and Rachna” .2. Textual analysis of this Bir By Dr.balbir singh in book Punjab Universty panjabi sahit Da Ithas Part II Pages 156-158.pub bu panjab uni publication Bureau Chandigarh1967,1986

For other details click on http://www.globalsikhstudies.<wbr>net/r_link/dasam.htm

Jasbir Singh Mann. MD California
 

sachbol

SPNer
Feb 12, 2010
97
146
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Before getting into debate let me make it clear that Dasham Granth Sahib was compiled by Bhai Mani Singh ji(Saheed, we chant in ardass 'Band Band Kataye') who was not only brahm gyani sikh but also childhood buddy of Dashm Pita and hav spend his entire life under guidence of guru sahib.And that pious soul cannot be wrong.
Now about the debate.
firstly we should clearly differenciate between gurumukh and manmukh. If true sikh like mani singh ji a close associate of guru sahib claims it to be gurujis compositions and we 300 years after are putting disclaimers. absolutely manmukhi ! as our mind does not accepts?
Secondly, we should try to understand that Guruji was a saint, a complete saint by acts and thoughts.he was complete manifest appearence of guru grainth sahib. He never did nindaya of any one even of Aungjeb (he praises his bravery in bachitar natak), harichand etc. he had only praised the deeds of krishna, rama, durga, chandi and others who ever has raised agaist the evil, whats wrong in that? And every time he says that he is das of Akal no co question of devi puja arrives. its devi mahima but not puja and who ever is entitled for that he had given it. again trait of a true saint.
Thirdly, Guruji should be seen as a greatest of all poets and as a GURU. When he is guru he writes Jaap Sahib, sudha savvaiye, tv prasad savvaiye etc and when he is a poet he composes bachitar natak, chandi ki vaar, krishna avtaar, and when he is a teacher he teaches his sikhs behaviours that they should practice and one they should avoid, hikkayaits.
Fourthly section of triya chritra which is termed as most controversial ond often disclaimer is made as dasnh granth sahib is not the bani of guruji. Yes when this section is read by we people, who are entangled in kam vaasna, yet not liberated of it, not understanding 'SANSAAR SAMUNDE' and 'IMPACT OF MAYA' or 'BHAVSAGAR', often make mistake of understanding it, Like often people do in interpritting 'Kujhraho temples'. Yes guruji has presented the kama, but remember it is presented by perfect saint (Uch da peer, peer-i-hind as guruji is represented) hence its purpose and sence changes. it is only to make his sikhs understand, the human manifestation of kama, when kama rides a man how he beheaves, how he forgets his real duties and get engaged in bodily and other pleasures and ends up as a looser. And we are kami purush, and thus our analysis will certain take it through the point of sensuality.
we should be thankful to guru sahib that a true saint had written over this issue. as practically what have made people most deviant through out of the history of world is this kama and guruji had very boldly taught his sikh how kama look when it takes human form.
So our collective mental intellenge even cannot match a single inch of that of guruji's. if reading that if any sence of valgourity or sensuality develops one should accept that still our mind is infected by kama because its only thinking and accepting in its own way, but not by Guru Sahib's

Dasam Granth has valuable teachings of Dasam Guru but it has been badly infected by fake chapters like Charitropakhyan, No as a complete Granth I do not accept it.
 

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