☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Hard Talk
Insult To Whom?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Harjas Kaur Khalsa" data-source="post: 53386" data-attributes="member: 2125"><p><span style="color: black"><u><strong>First</strong></u>:</span><span style="color: black"> Sikhs are ordinary people....just like everyone else. So stop criticizing Sikhs for being human and having responses to provocation.</span></p><p> </p><p><strong><u>Second</u></strong>: The tattoo was insulting. It was intended to be insulting. It was placed in a part of female anatomy which is insulting to display. And it was publically being displayed, even televised to provoke protest.</p><p> </p><p>Whether or not you personally feel differently is your perogative. The majority of the Sikh Panth including the leadership have already settled the case.</p><p> </p><p><strong><u>Third</u></strong>: I have no idea whether anybody harbored hatred, since I am not Akal Purakh to know the intentions of their individual hearts. I'm not going to do nindya of the individual Sikh as to their exact motivations. I recognize simply because someone is a Sikh, they represent themselves, not the Khalsa Panth. So if some people had a wrong idea, or a wrong approach, or became "engrossed in the worldly maya and taken captive by their panj dhoots" it really isn't my business, that's for Guruji to judge and correct. To the best of my knowledge, these people were acting from provocation, not with intent to injure the sentiments of others. The Khalsa Panth is a collectivity, no individual voice stands above the rest. I submit all my opinions to the accepted views of the Khalsa Panth as a collective body, and to Akal Takht, which I believe has spoken in this matter.</p><p> </p><p><strong><u>Fourth</u></strong>: Western morality while so popular, so tolerant, so acceptable to the majority of the liberal world is really a promoter of immorality. So while people who are desensitized to western culture, (lack of) morals, and fashions may not see any offense in this lady's tattoo and the way it was publically and deliberately displayed, don't assume more conservative and traditional cultures would share the same toleration, or be wrong to feel offended. The saddest thing, people raised in western cultures are not even aware of how poorly they are perceived by other countries for their displays of indecency. Can I say discreetly that such displays of a half-naked back (with a religious symbol no less) is perceived as being a kind of prostitution? Have sensitivity for the cultural context. </p><p> </p><p>As for the comment about your wife, and some presumed saintly reaction of non-violence and blessing to insult and attack. Remember veerji, everything is relative in the relative world. Gandhi's pacifism was the pacifism of a fool. All it accomplished was the creation of Pakistan and the horror of partition. So greater evil came because of his "saintly" inaction.</p><p> </p><p></p><p><span style="color: black">Turn the other cheek? Isn't this pacifistic Christian teaching? Let me quote Harbhajan Singh Yogi (Yogi Bhajan) to the 3HO: "If someone slaps you on one cheek, I say smash in his other cheek. That way he will think twice before doing that to anyone else again." Do you know why we wear kirpan? Guruji has given us the right to the Divine dignity of self-protection as a religious principle and identity.</span></p><p> </p><p>Actually to fight back takes great self-control. Have you ever practiced martial arts? Even Gandhi wrote that ahimsa is not real if you have no strength to fight back. Often cowardice is calling itself "ahimsa." You have to BE ABLE to defend yourself, and chose not to for advancement of a spiritual or social ideal. Sikhism doesn't teach ahimsa. Neither does it teach violence. Sikhism teaches self-defense, and the highest morality of sacrificing yourself to defend others from harm. Guruji did not helplessly turn the other cheek. He was a terror to the oppressors! He started a holy movement and stopped the oppression. That was the gift from God.</p><p> </p><p>Guruji is asking for the head of a Sikh. You do realize, as a soldier of the Khalsa fauj, to give a head is the same as to take a head. Sometimes it might come to pass where the holiest thing you can do is take the head from your enemy to defend the Khalsa Panth. So on the point of pacifism being idealized as the supreme spiritual manifestation, remember, while Guruji sacrificed his own sons, it was as an example of commitment to sacrifice in warfare <em><u>against oppression</u></em>. To act was a greater service to humanity than not to act. The eldest Sahibzade where the head of Armies leading a military charge. Remember the wonderful strength and Khalsa spirit of Banda Bahadurji and so many great Sikh Generals. Now a saint-sipahi is someone who is not acting out of personal anger or the 5 demons. But he is still required to act. Everyone's goal is to become a true saint-sipahi. But don't be so discouraged that ordinary human beings who are Sikhs are not being saints. In fact, in this evil age, saints are very rare. I am not a saint. And you are not a saint. So why the harsh judgement on people for not being saints?</p><p></p><p>~Bhull chuk maaf karni ji</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Harjas Kaur Khalsa, post: 53386, member: 2125"] [COLOR=black][U][B]First[/B][/U]:[/COLOR][COLOR=black] Sikhs are ordinary people....just like everyone else. So stop criticizing Sikhs for being human and having responses to provocation.[/COLOR] [B][U]Second[/U][/B]: The tattoo was insulting. It was intended to be insulting. It was placed in a part of female anatomy which is insulting to display. And it was publically being displayed, even televised to provoke protest. Whether or not you personally feel differently is your perogative. The majority of the Sikh Panth including the leadership have already settled the case. [B][U]Third[/U][/B]: I have no idea whether anybody harbored hatred, since I am not Akal Purakh to know the intentions of their individual hearts. I'm not going to do nindya of the individual Sikh as to their exact motivations. I recognize simply because someone is a Sikh, they represent themselves, not the Khalsa Panth. So if some people had a wrong idea, or a wrong approach, or became "engrossed in the worldly maya and taken captive by their panj dhoots" it really isn't my business, that's for Guruji to judge and correct. To the best of my knowledge, these people were acting from provocation, not with intent to injure the sentiments of others. The Khalsa Panth is a collectivity, no individual voice stands above the rest. I submit all my opinions to the accepted views of the Khalsa Panth as a collective body, and to Akal Takht, which I believe has spoken in this matter. [B][U]Fourth[/U][/B]: Western morality while so popular, so tolerant, so acceptable to the majority of the liberal world is really a promoter of immorality. So while people who are desensitized to western culture, (lack of) morals, and fashions may not see any offense in this lady's tattoo and the way it was publically and deliberately displayed, don't assume more conservative and traditional cultures would share the same toleration, or be wrong to feel offended. The saddest thing, people raised in western cultures are not even aware of how poorly they are perceived by other countries for their displays of indecency. Can I say discreetly that such displays of a half-naked back (with a religious symbol no less) is perceived as being a kind of prostitution? Have sensitivity for the cultural context. As for the comment about your wife, and some presumed saintly reaction of non-violence and blessing to insult and attack. Remember veerji, everything is relative in the relative world. Gandhi's pacifism was the pacifism of a fool. All it accomplished was the creation of Pakistan and the horror of partition. So greater evil came because of his "saintly" inaction. [COLOR=navy][/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Turn the other cheek? Isn't this pacifistic Christian teaching? Let me quote Harbhajan Singh Yogi (Yogi Bhajan) to the 3HO: "If someone slaps you on one cheek, I say smash in his other cheek. That way he will think twice before doing that to anyone else again." Do you know why we wear kirpan? Guruji has given us the right to the Divine dignity of self-protection as a religious principle and identity.[/COLOR] Actually to fight back takes great self-control. Have you ever practiced martial arts? Even Gandhi wrote that ahimsa is not real if you have no strength to fight back. Often cowardice is calling itself "ahimsa." You have to BE ABLE to defend yourself, and chose not to for advancement of a spiritual or social ideal. Sikhism doesn't teach ahimsa. Neither does it teach violence. Sikhism teaches self-defense, and the highest morality of sacrificing yourself to defend others from harm. Guruji did not helplessly turn the other cheek. He was a terror to the oppressors! He started a holy movement and stopped the oppression. That was the gift from God. Guruji is asking for the head of a Sikh. You do realize, as a soldier of the Khalsa fauj, to give a head is the same as to take a head. Sometimes it might come to pass where the holiest thing you can do is take the head from your enemy to defend the Khalsa Panth. So on the point of pacifism being idealized as the supreme spiritual manifestation, remember, while Guruji sacrificed his own sons, it was as an example of commitment to sacrifice in warfare [I][U]against oppression[/U][/I]. To act was a greater service to humanity than not to act. The eldest Sahibzade where the head of Armies leading a military charge. Remember the wonderful strength and Khalsa spirit of Banda Bahadurji and so many great Sikh Generals. Now a saint-sipahi is someone who is not acting out of personal anger or the 5 demons. But he is still required to act. Everyone's goal is to become a true saint-sipahi. But don't be so discouraged that ordinary human beings who are Sikhs are not being saints. In fact, in this evil age, saints are very rare. I am not a saint. And you are not a saint. So why the harsh judgement on people for not being saints? ~Bhull chuk maaf karni ji [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Hard Talk
Insult To Whom?
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top