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In Gurbani, Is It 'Karma' Or 'Actions' ?
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<blockquote data-quote="Ishna" data-source="post: 177934" data-attributes="member: 2709"><p>Greetings</p><p> </p><p>Was reading this shalok:</p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="color: #800000"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਲੋਕ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਸਲੋਕ </span></a>॥</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'">Salok.</span> </p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="color: #000080">Shalok:</span></span> </p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="color: #800000"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗੁਰ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਗੁਰ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗੋਬਿੰਦ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਗੋਬਿੰਦ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗੋਪਾਲ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਗੋਪਾਲ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗੁਰ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਗੁਰ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗੁਰ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਗੁਰ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਪੂਰਨ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਪੂਰਨ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਨਾਰਾਇਣਹ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਨਾਰਾਇਣਹ </span></a>॥</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'">Gur gobinḏ gopāl gur gur pūran nārā▫iṇėh.</span> </p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="color: #000080">The Guru is the Lord of the Universe; the Guru is the Lord of the world; the Guru is the Perfect Pervading Lord God.</span></span> </p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="color: #800000"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗੁਰ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਗੁਰ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਦਇਆਲ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਦਇਆਲ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਮਰਥ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਸਮਰਥ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗੁਰ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਗੁਰ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗੁਰ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਗੁਰ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਨਾਨਕ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਨਾਨਕ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਪਤਿਤ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਪਤਿਤ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਉਧਾਰਣਹ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਉਧਾਰਣਹ </span></a>॥੧॥</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'">Gur ḏa▫i▫āl samrath gur gur Nānak paṯiṯ uḏẖārṇėh. ||1||</span> </p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="color: #000080">The Guru is compassionate; the Guru is all-powerful; the Guru, O Nanak, is the Saving Grace of sinners. ||1||</span></span> </p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="color: #800000"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਭਉਜਲੁ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਭਉਜਲੁ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਬਿਖਮੁ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਬਿਖਮੁ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਅਸਗਾਹੁ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਅਸਗਾਹੁ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗੁਰਿ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਗੁਰਿ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਬੋਹਿਥੈ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਬੋਹਿਥੈ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਤਾਰਿਅਮੁ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਤਾਰਿਅਮੁ </span></a>॥</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'">Bẖa▫ojal bikẖam asgāhu gur bohithai ṯāri▫am.</span> </p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="color: #000080">The Guru is the boat, to cross over the dangerous, treacherous, unfathomable world-ocean.</span></span> </p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="color: #800000"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਨਾਨਕ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਨਾਨਕ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਪੂਰ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਪੂਰ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਰੰਮ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਕਰੰਮ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਤਿਗੁਰ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਸਤਿਗੁਰ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਚਰਣੀ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਚਰਣੀ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਲਗਿਆ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਲਗਿਆ </span></a>॥੨॥</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'">Nānak pūr karamm saṯgur cẖarṇī lagi▫ā. ||2||</span> </p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="color: #000080">O Nanak, by perfect good karma, one is attached to the feet of the True Guru. ||2||</span></span> </p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p>and the last sentence caught my eye. Its an idea expressed by Granth Sahib many, many times.</p><p> </p><p>I get caught by the word 'karma'. If we interpret 'karma' as it is commonly, i.e. what you do now will have effects later, or your actions now affect your rebirth, it seems like a bit of an impossible feat. Who can know their karma, who can do anything except leave it up to the scoreboard in the sky?</p><p> </p><p>When you check the dictionary for the word, in this case, ਕਰੰਮ (karamm), it says 'from karama'. The definition of 'Karama' is either actions, or destiny or fortune.</p><p> </p><p>Is the reader then free to apply whichever definition they see fit?</p><p> </p><p>Can the last sentence be translated as</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: seagreen">O Nanak, by perfect good actions, one is attached to the feet of the True Guru. ||2||<strong> [Ishna's interpretation only]</strong></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p>Or am I over-analysing. Can it be that the word karamm is employing two concepts - i.e. 'O Nanak, it is the <strong>result</strong> of perfect good <strong>actions</strong> whereby one is attached to the feet of the True Guru'? Which sort of employs a version of 'karma' (your actions affect what is to come) but also puts the emphasis on your actions now rather than waiting for the scoreboard in the sky to do it's thang?</p><p> </p><p>Sorry if this has already been discussed.</p><p> </p><p>Thank for persevering with my dodgy brain. teehee</p><p> </p><p>Edit:</p><p>OMG! Then Bhai Manmohan Singh translates it to the even more vague and irritating:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="color: #800000"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਨਾਨਕ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਨਾਨਕ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਪੂਰ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਪੂਰ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਰੰਮ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਕਰੰਮ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਤਿਗੁਰ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਸਤਿਗੁਰ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਚਰਣੀ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਚਰਣੀ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਲਗਿਆ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਲਗਿਆ </span></a>॥੨॥</span></span> </p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'">Nānak pūr karamm saṯgur cẖarṇī lagi▫ā. ||2||</span> </p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: #000080">Nanak, perfect is the destiny of him, who is attached to the True Guru's feet.</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ishna, post: 177934, member: 2709"] Greetings Was reading this shalok: [INDENT][FONT=AnmolUniPr][COLOR=#800000][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਲੋਕ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਸਲੋਕ [/COLOR][/URL]॥[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=TAHOMA]Salok.[/FONT] [FONT=TAHOMA][COLOR=#000080]Shalok:[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=AnmolUniPr][COLOR=#800000][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗੁਰ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਗੁਰ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗੋਬਿੰਦ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਗੋਬਿੰਦ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗੋਪਾਲ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਗੋਪਾਲ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗੁਰ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਗੁਰ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗੁਰ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਗੁਰ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਪੂਰਨ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਪੂਰਨ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਨਾਰਾਇਣਹ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਨਾਰਾਇਣਹ [/COLOR][/URL]॥[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=TAHOMA]Gur gobinḏ gopāl gur gur pūran nārā▫iṇėh.[/FONT] [FONT=TAHOMA][COLOR=#000080]The Guru is the Lord of the Universe; the Guru is the Lord of the world; the Guru is the Perfect Pervading Lord God.[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=AnmolUniPr][COLOR=#800000][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗੁਰ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਗੁਰ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਦਇਆਲ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਦਇਆਲ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਮਰਥ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਸਮਰਥ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗੁਰ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਗੁਰ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗੁਰ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਗੁਰ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਨਾਨਕ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਨਾਨਕ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਪਤਿਤ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਪਤਿਤ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਉਧਾਰਣਹ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਉਧਾਰਣਹ [/COLOR][/URL]॥੧॥[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=TAHOMA]Gur ḏa▫i▫āl samrath gur gur Nānak paṯiṯ uḏẖārṇėh. ||1||[/FONT] [FONT=TAHOMA][COLOR=#000080]The Guru is compassionate; the Guru is all-powerful; the Guru, O Nanak, is the Saving Grace of sinners. ||1||[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=AnmolUniPr][COLOR=#800000][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਭਉਜਲੁ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਭਉਜਲੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਬਿਖਮੁ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਬਿਖਮੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਅਸਗਾਹੁ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਅਸਗਾਹੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗੁਰਿ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਗੁਰਿ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਬੋਹਿਥੈ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਬੋਹਿਥੈ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਤਾਰਿਅਮੁ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਤਾਰਿਅਮੁ [/COLOR][/URL]॥[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=TAHOMA]Bẖa▫ojal bikẖam asgāhu gur bohithai ṯāri▫am.[/FONT] [FONT=TAHOMA][COLOR=#000080]The Guru is the boat, to cross over the dangerous, treacherous, unfathomable world-ocean.[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=AnmolUniPr][COLOR=#800000][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਨਾਨਕ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਨਾਨਕ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਪੂਰ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਪੂਰ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਰੰਮ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਕਰੰਮ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਤਿਗੁਰ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਸਤਿਗੁਰ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਚਰਣੀ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਚਰਣੀ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਲਗਿਆ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਲਗਿਆ [/COLOR][/URL]॥੨॥[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=TAHOMA]Nānak pūr karamm saṯgur cẖarṇī lagi▫ā. ||2||[/FONT] [FONT=TAHOMA][COLOR=#000080]O Nanak, by perfect good karma, one is attached to the feet of the True Guru. ||2||[/COLOR][/FONT] [/INDENT]and the last sentence caught my eye. Its an idea expressed by Granth Sahib many, many times. I get caught by the word 'karma'. If we interpret 'karma' as it is commonly, i.e. what you do now will have effects later, or your actions now affect your rebirth, it seems like a bit of an impossible feat. Who can know their karma, who can do anything except leave it up to the scoreboard in the sky? When you check the dictionary for the word, in this case, ਕਰੰਮ (karamm), it says 'from karama'. The definition of 'Karama' is either actions, or destiny or fortune. Is the reader then free to apply whichever definition they see fit? Can the last sentence be translated as [INDENT][COLOR=seagreen]O Nanak, by perfect good actions, one is attached to the feet of the True Guru. ||2||[B] [Ishna's interpretation only][/B][/COLOR] [/INDENT]Or am I over-analysing. Can it be that the word karamm is employing two concepts - i.e. 'O Nanak, it is the [B]result[/B] of perfect good [B]actions[/B] whereby one is attached to the feet of the True Guru'? Which sort of employs a version of 'karma' (your actions affect what is to come) but also puts the emphasis on your actions now rather than waiting for the scoreboard in the sky to do it's thang? Sorry if this has already been discussed. Thank for persevering with my dodgy brain. teehee Edit: OMG! Then Bhai Manmohan Singh translates it to the even more vague and irritating: [INDENT][FONT=AnmolUniPr][COLOR=#800000][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਨਾਨਕ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਨਾਨਕ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਪੂਰ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਪੂਰ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਰੰਮ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਕਰੰਮ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਤਿਗੁਰ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਸਤਿਗੁਰ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਚਰਣੀ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਚਰਣੀ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਲਗਿਆ"][COLOR=#0066cc]ਲਗਿਆ [/COLOR][/URL]॥੨॥[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=TAHOMA]Nānak pūr karamm saṯgur cẖarṇī lagi▫ā. ||2||[/FONT] [COLOR=#000080]Nanak, perfect is the destiny of him, who is attached to the True Guru's feet.[/COLOR] [/INDENT] [/QUOTE]
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In Gurbani, Is It 'Karma' Or 'Actions' ?
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