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ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
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Thittee (296-300)
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Gurbani (323-330)
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Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
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Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
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Gurmat Vichaar
Gurmat Vichar - Discussions
Gurmat : Who Is The Deciding Authority
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<blockquote data-quote="Harjas Kaur Khalsa" data-source="post: 54568" data-attributes="member: 2125"><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Well it is interesting that now after so long a time I am finally able to actually post. I thought I had been banned. It is too bad you did not address the personal attacks against my character in the earlier part of the thread, which taken with the length of time I was not allowed to post a response indicates the forum is bullying a certain viewpoint.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">You are saying some very critical things here Amarpal Singh...but are they true for the Sikh Panth? Or are they only true for your personal opinion? And please note, that not at any time am I insulting or degrading the personal characteristics of others in order to have a discussion. So I would request that the forum exercise the courtesy not to continue personal attacks on me as stupid, anti-Sikh, cultic, disrespecting Guru, etc.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Let's anaylze:</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">So Gurmat is inclusive by definition of the<em><strong> entire basic theological structure, doctrine and tenets of Guruji</strong></em>. And includes the authority of the <strong><em>institutions established by Guruji</em></strong> (Takhts, Panj Piare), and the Sikhs must <strong><em>conform</em></strong> their personal convictions to what is accepted Gurmat teaching.</span></p><p><span style="color: navy">[SIZE=-1][/SIZE]</span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">According to the SGPC, the Sangat has authority to pass resolutions having the force of law. Because Guruji Himself invested His own authority into the Khalsa Panth. So to say <span style="color: navy">"Within the general frame work of Sikhi and Khalsa Panth, you are the deciding authority for yourself." </span><span style="color: black">This is correct. But the operative words are:<strong> "<em><u>general framework of Sikhi and Khalsa Panth</u></em>." </strong>And the discussion hinges on how we define this.</span></span></p><p> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><u><em>Defining Gurmat solely as learning imparted by Siri Guru Granth Sahibji solely to oneself is not Gurmat according to the Khalsa Panth</em></u>. As I explained before, many traditions of Gurmat Gursikhi such as <u><strong>Nitname banis</strong></u>, <strong><u>Amrit sinchaar ceremony</u></strong>, the <u><strong>formation of Khalsa Panth</strong></u>, <strong><u>Waheguru Gurmantar</u></strong> and <u><strong>gupt method of recitation of Naam</strong></u>, <u><strong>Panj Kakkars</strong></u>, the clear and defined instruction that a Gursikh is <u><strong>to keep kes uncut</strong></u>, the authority of <u><strong>Panj Piare</strong></u> and <u><strong>Panj Takhts</strong></u> and <u><strong>Khalsa Panth</strong></u> as vested with the authority of Guruji <em>are not anywhere found in the Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.</em> </span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">The Panth recognizes Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as indesputably Guru! Nowhere have I said otherwise. <strong>However, to say that <em><u>only bani</u></em> from Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is Gurmat is incorrect.</strong> <strong>To say <u>only source of authority</u> is what is written solely in Shabadguru Ji is incorrect.</strong> <u>It violates Panthic edict</u>.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><em><strong>When defining Gurmat, we are also defining authority of Guru's teaching and theological framework for the structure of the Sikh religion.</strong></em> And this includes as I have said before the authority of Akal Takht, the Panj Takhts, the Panj Piare. And the secondary source material Dasam Granth, vaaran of Bhai Gurdas, Purataan rehitnamay, Rehit Maryada, Purataan sakhis, etc. (I call as secondary because <em><u>everything in Gurmat Gursikhi must be subordinate to the primacy of Shabadguru Ji</u></em>, and never have I said otherwise.) Never have I said disputes and legitimate disagreements don't exist within the Panth. Never did I say any other bani or tradition is allowed to contradict Shabadguru Ji. <em><strong>I said Gurmat is inclusive of sources outside of the Shabadguru Ji, and I repeat, they are accepted traditionally within the Khalsa Panth.</strong></em> There is nothing individual, unique, new or cultic in what I have stated. <em><u>What is cultic and neferious is to undermine the legitimate sources of Sikh theology and framework of Sikh religion</u>.</em></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Gurmat is inclusive of Dasam Granth, rehitnamas, vaaran of Bhai Gurdas, the hukams of Akal Takht and the Panj Piare. Now people can insult me personally, but that is not establishing a different proof of what has been accepted by the Sikh Panth as defining GURMAT.<strong> Gurmat is not somebody reading Shabadguru Ji and coming to own personal opinions.</strong> This doesn't invalidate that people have a personal relationship with Guruji and form own opinions, or that people have to rely on a "priestly class." <em><strong><u>It means the Panth has united on given definitions of Gursikhi and to violate those is to step outside the norms and lose credibility</u>.</strong></em> I have been accused on this thread of being a cultist.<em> Yet, it is the cultists who disregard and invalidate the <u>accepted framework</u> and basis of Sikh religion and <u>undermine the authority structures of the Sikh Panth</u>.</em> </span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="color: black">This is an attempt to invalidate the <u><em>general </em></u></span><span style="color: black"><u><em>framework of Sikh religion</em></u>. Because the statements I made are not my own opinion. And contrary to any propagandistic way this website attempts to portray it, everything I have said is in consonnace with Gurmat. <strong><em>Individuals don't decide for themselves what Gursikhi is</em>.</strong> I am not saying my opinion of Gurmat is authoritative. I am saying Akal Takht has been excommunicating authors who challenge the authority of Dasam Granth, and precisely because so much <em><u>Sikh theological framework</u></em> is lost when you remove it as bani. And I am also saying that <strong>the accepted traditions of the Panth are Gurmat:</strong> such as <em><u>rehitnamay</u></em>, Rehit Maryada, vaaran of Bhai Gurdas Ji. <em><u>Instruction for how to live as an amritdhari Sikh</u></em> comes from secondary source material outside of Shabadguru Ji Maharaaj.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">According to the vaaran of Bhai Gurdas ji, <strong><u>Waheguru is Gurmantar for the Sikhs</u>. This is accepted by the Takhts. This is accepted as Purataan Gurmat Gursikhi since time of Guru!</strong> <em>So this should <u>end debates</u> once and for all regarding credibility and meaning of Waheguru Gurmantar</em>. And this is not my own opinion. <strong><em>Guruji Himself said that <u>Bhai Gurdas Ji</u> was the "<span style="color: red"><u>key</u></span>" to understanding Gurbani. </em></strong>So when the "key" explains something, that explanation silences all the rest. It is authoritative. The Sikh Gurmantar is not Satinaam. It is not Om. It is not whatever anyone wants to say it is.</span></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Anybody who wants to nullify or criticize the authority of Dasam Granth bani, take heed. The Khalsa Panth as a corporate body is not taking lightly to attempts to waterdown, recreate, reinterpret, redefine, undermine, insult, disregard or defame the Gurmat structural framework of the Sikh religion:</span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Harjas Kaur Khalsa, post: 54568, member: 2125"] [FONT=Arial][/FONT][FONT=Arial][/FONT] [FONT=Arial]Well it is interesting that now after so long a time I am finally able to actually post. I thought I had been banned. It is too bad you did not address the personal attacks against my character in the earlier part of the thread, which taken with the length of time I was not allowed to post a response indicates the forum is bullying a certain viewpoint.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]You are saying some very critical things here Amarpal Singh...but are they true for the Sikh Panth? Or are they only true for your personal opinion? And please note, that not at any time am I insulting or degrading the personal characteristics of others in order to have a discussion. So I would request that the forum exercise the courtesy not to continue personal attacks on me as stupid, anti-Sikh, cultic, disrespecting Guru, etc.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]Let's anaylze:[/FONT][FONT=Arial][/FONT] [FONT=Arial]So Gurmat is inclusive by definition of the[I][B] entire basic theological structure, doctrine and tenets of Guruji[/B][/I]. And includes the authority of the [B][I]institutions established by Guruji[/I][/B] (Takhts, Panj Piare), and the Sikhs must [B][I]conform[/I][/B] their personal convictions to what is accepted Gurmat teaching.[/FONT] [COLOR=navy][SIZE=-1][B][FONT=Arial][/FONT][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/B][/SIZE][/COLOR] [FONT=Arial][/FONT][FONT=Arial][/FONT] [FONT=Arial]According to the SGPC, the Sangat has authority to pass resolutions having the force of law. Because Guruji Himself invested His own authority into the Khalsa Panth. So to say [COLOR=navy]"Within the general frame work of Sikhi and Khalsa Panth, you are the deciding authority for yourself." [/COLOR][COLOR=black]This is correct. But the operative words are:[B] "[I][U]general framework of Sikhi and Khalsa Panth[/U][/I]." [/B]And the discussion hinges on how we define this.[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][COLOR=blue][/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][U][I]Defining Gurmat solely as learning imparted by Siri Guru Granth Sahibji solely to oneself is not Gurmat according to the Khalsa Panth[/I][/U]. As I explained before, many traditions of Gurmat Gursikhi such as [U][B]Nitname banis[/B][/U], [B][U]Amrit sinchaar ceremony[/U][/B], the [U][B]formation of Khalsa Panth[/B][/U], [B][U]Waheguru Gurmantar[/U][/B] and [U][B]gupt method of recitation of Naam[/B][/U], [U][B]Panj Kakkars[/B][/U], the clear and defined instruction that a Gursikh is [U][B]to keep kes uncut[/B][/U], the authority of [U][B]Panj Piare[/B][/U] and [U][B]Panj Takhts[/B][/U] and [U][B]Khalsa Panth[/B][/U] as vested with the authority of Guruji [I]are not anywhere found in the Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.[/I] [/FONT] [FONT=Arial]The Panth recognizes Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as indesputably Guru! Nowhere have I said otherwise. [B]However, to say that [I][U]only bani[/U][/I] from Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is Gurmat is incorrect.[/B] [B]To say [U]only source of authority[/U] is what is written solely in Shabadguru Ji is incorrect.[/B] [U]It violates Panthic edict[/U].[/FONT] [FONT=Arial][I][B]When defining Gurmat, we are also defining authority of Guru's teaching and theological framework for the structure of the Sikh religion.[/B][/I] And this includes as I have said before the authority of Akal Takht, the Panj Takhts, the Panj Piare. And the secondary source material Dasam Granth, vaaran of Bhai Gurdas, Purataan rehitnamay, Rehit Maryada, Purataan sakhis, etc. (I call as secondary because [I][U]everything in Gurmat Gursikhi must be subordinate to the primacy of Shabadguru Ji[/U][/I], and never have I said otherwise.) Never have I said disputes and legitimate disagreements don't exist within the Panth. Never did I say any other bani or tradition is allowed to contradict Shabadguru Ji. [I][B]I said Gurmat is inclusive of sources outside of the Shabadguru Ji, and I repeat, they are accepted traditionally within the Khalsa Panth.[/B][/I] There is nothing individual, unique, new or cultic in what I have stated. [I][U]What is cultic and neferious is to undermine the legitimate sources of Sikh theology and framework of Sikh religion[/U].[/I][/FONT] [FONT=Arial]Gurmat is inclusive of Dasam Granth, rehitnamas, vaaran of Bhai Gurdas, the hukams of Akal Takht and the Panj Piare. Now people can insult me personally, but that is not establishing a different proof of what has been accepted by the Sikh Panth as defining GURMAT.[B] Gurmat is not somebody reading Shabadguru Ji and coming to own personal opinions.[/B] This doesn't invalidate that people have a personal relationship with Guruji and form own opinions, or that people have to rely on a "priestly class." [I][B][U]It means the Panth has united on given definitions of Gursikhi and to violate those is to step outside the norms and lose credibility[/U].[/B][/I] I have been accused on this thread of being a cultist.[I] Yet, it is the cultists who disregard and invalidate the [U]accepted framework[/U] and basis of Sikh religion and [U]undermine the authority structures of the Sikh Panth[/U].[/I] [/FONT] [FONT=Arial][/FONT][FONT=Arial][COLOR=black]This is an attempt to invalidate the [U][I]general [/I][/U][/COLOR][COLOR=black][U][I]framework of Sikh religion[/I][/U]. Because the statements I made are not my own opinion. And contrary to any propagandistic way this website attempts to portray it, everything I have said is in consonnace with Gurmat. [B][I]Individuals don't decide for themselves what Gursikhi is[/I].[/B] I am not saying my opinion of Gurmat is authoritative. I am saying Akal Takht has been excommunicating authors who challenge the authority of Dasam Granth, and precisely because so much [I][U]Sikh theological framework[/U][/I] is lost when you remove it as bani. And I am also saying that [B]the accepted traditions of the Panth are Gurmat:[/B] such as [I][U]rehitnamay[/U][/I], Rehit Maryada, vaaran of Bhai Gurdas Ji. [I][U]Instruction for how to live as an amritdhari Sikh[/U][/I] comes from secondary source material outside of Shabadguru Ji Maharaaj.[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Arial]According to the vaaran of Bhai Gurdas ji, [B][U]Waheguru is Gurmantar for the Sikhs[/U]. This is accepted by the Takhts. This is accepted as Purataan Gurmat Gursikhi since time of Guru![/B] [I]So this should [U]end debates[/U] once and for all regarding credibility and meaning of Waheguru Gurmantar[/I]. And this is not my own opinion. [B][I]Guruji Himself said that [U]Bhai Gurdas Ji[/U] was the "[COLOR=red][U]key[/U][/COLOR]" to understanding Gurbani. [/I][/B]So when the "key" explains something, that explanation silences all the rest. It is authoritative. The Sikh Gurmantar is not Satinaam. It is not Om. It is not whatever anyone wants to say it is.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial][/FONT][FONT=Arial][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][/FONT][FONT=Arial][/FONT] [FONT=Arial]Anybody who wants to nullify or criticize the authority of Dasam Granth bani, take heed. The Khalsa Panth as a corporate body is not taking lightly to attempts to waterdown, recreate, reinterpret, redefine, undermine, insult, disregard or defame the Gurmat structural framework of the Sikh religion:[/FONT] [FONT=Arial][/FONT][FONT=Arial][/FONT] [/QUOTE]
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Gurmat Vichaar
Gurmat Vichar - Discussions
Gurmat : Who Is The Deciding Authority
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