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Bachittar Natak
Gurcharan Singh Jeonvala And Sukhbir Singh Discussion On Dasam Granth At Sur Sagar TV
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<blockquote data-quote="explorer" data-source="post: 120937" data-attributes="member: 2331"><p>Tejwant ji,</p><p> </p><p>Let me make it clear, SGGS is the only guru of Sikhs, if there is an problem in the reflection of the same thought through any of my previous posts or if somebody feels that i think otherwise.</p><p> </p><p>Secondly, I have nowhere mentioned that DG has to be embraced as Guru of Sikhs or Dasam Pita had give Guruship to Dasam Granth.</p><p> </p><p>Its not that i am msissing something, its rather your point of view only.</p><p> </p><p>SGGS is a universal scripture, it has to be read, comtemplated and meditated upon to achieve inner peace of mind.</p><p> </p><p>The Bani inscribed by the Guru Sahib has a clear mandate of being "Dhur ki Baani aayi, tin sagli chint mitaayi"</p><p> </p><p>Now the Baani, which has come from the divine communion of the Guru Sahib with Akal Purakh, has also references to Raam, Ravan, Sita, Lachman, Krishan, Jadavas and others like "Sulhi", Laalo(Babur Bani).</p><p> </p><p>What is your view on the reference to Raam, Sita, Lachman, Baali , Ravan, Lanka mentioned in the Sabad </p><p>"Nanak Dukhiya Sab Samsaar"</p><p>Are these references mythological or historical?</p><p>And if they are mythological why they are required in the Gurbani tool-box?</p><p>And if they are history where would you go and corroborate evidence for the same elsewhere?</p><p> </p><p>Secondly, Why did Guru Sahib give reference to Sulhi (in the Sabad, "Sulhi te Narayan Rakh" and Lalo if he was not to mention any historical contexts.</p><p> </p><p>Now if you read through the Sabad of Guru Ramdas ji Maharaj about the Tapa who tried to heap insult on the Guru Amardas ji has no mention of name Khadoor, when this incident has taken place with Guru Amardas ji in Khadoor Sahib. If some detractors say that there is no mention of khadoor in this Sabad; it can not be attributed to Khadoor-tapai-wali-sakhi.</p><p> </p><p>ਸਲੋਕ ਮਃ ੪ ॥</p><p>ਤਪਾ ਨ ਹੋਵੈ ਅੰਦ੍ਰਹੁ ਲੋਭੀ ਨਿਤ ਮਾਇਆ ਨੋ ਫਿਰੈ ਜਜਮਾਲਿਆ ॥ </p><p>ਅਗੋ ਦੇ ਸਦਿਆ ਸਤੈ ਦੀ ਭਿਖਿਆ ਲਏ ਨਾਹੀ ਪਿਛੋ ਦੇ ਪਛੁਤਾਇ ਕੈ ਆਣਿ ਤਪੈ ਪੁਤੁ ਵਿਚਿ ਬਹਾਲਿਆ ॥</p><p>ਪੰਚ ਲੋਗ ਸਭਿ ਹਸਣ ਲਗੇ ਤਪਾ ਲੋਭਿ ਲਹਰਿ ਹੈ ਗਾਲਿਆ ॥ </p><p>ਜਿਥੈ ਥੋੜਾ ਧਨੁ ਵੇਖੈ ਤਿਥੈ ਤਪਾ ਭਿਟੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਧਨਿ ਬਹੁਤੈ ਡਿਠੈ ਤਪੈ ਧਰਮੁ ਹਾਰਿਆ ॥</p><p>ਭਾਈ ਏਹੁ ਤਪਾ ਨ ਹੋਵੀ ਬਗੁਲਾ ਹੈ ਬਹਿ ਸਾਧ ਜਨਾ ਵੀਚਾਰਿਆ ॥ </p><p>ਸਤ ਪੁਰਖ ਕੀ ਤਪਾ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਕਰੈ ਸੰਸਾਰੈ ਕੀ ਉਸਤਤੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਏਤੁ ਦੋਖੈ ਤਪਾ ਦਯਿ ਮਾਰਿਆ ॥</p><p>ਮਹਾ ਪੁਰਖਾਂ ਕੀ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਕਾ ਵੇਖੁ ਜਿ ਤਪੇ ਨੋ ਫਲੁ ਲਗਾ ਸਭੁ ਗਇਆ ਤਪੇ ਕਾ ਘਾਲਿਆ ॥ </p><p>ਬਾਹਰਿ ਬਹੈ ਪੰਚਾ ਵਿਚਿ ਤਪਾ ਸਦਾਏ ॥ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਬਹੈ ਤਪਾ ਪਾਪ ਕਮਾਏ ॥ </p><p>ਹਰਿ ਅੰਦਰਲਾ ਪਾਪੁ ਪੰਚਾ ਨੋ ਉਘਾ ਕਰਿ ਵੇਖਾਲਿਆ ॥</p><p>ਧਰਮ ਰਾਇ ਜਮਕੰਕਰਾ ਨੋ ਆਖਿ ਛਡਿਆ ਏਸੁ ਤਪੇ ਨੋ ਤਿਥੈ ਖੜਿ ਪਾਇਹੁ ਜਿਥੈ ਮਹਾ ਮਹਾਂ ਹਤਿਆਰਿਆ ॥ ਫਿਰਿ ਏਸੁ ਤਪੇ ਦੈ ਮੁਹਿ ਕੋਈ ਲਗਹੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਏਹੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਹੈ ਫਿਟਕਾਰਿਆ ॥ </p><p>ਹਰਿ ਕੈ ਦਰਿ ਵਰਤਿਆ ਸੁ ਨਾਨਕਿ ਆਖਿ ਸੁਣਾਇਆ ॥ ਸੋ ਬੂਝੈ ਜੁ ਦਯਿ ਸਵਾਰਿਆ ॥੧॥ </p><p>(SGGS : 315-316)</p><p> </p><p>Can you just think when there are many references to the greedy Pandits, jogis etc what is need of writing this Sabad in SGGS, what additional message it conveys.</p><p> </p><p>People who have ridiculed Bhai Randhir Singh and other gursikhs with regards to their reference of Jamdoots should go through any translations of the last two verses of this Sabad including the one by Prof. Sahib Singh ji.</p><p> </p><p>-----------------------------</p><p> </p><p>Further you have asked me about the case of omissions; let me put it straight.</p><p> </p><p>I don't know why Guru Nanak Dev ji mentioned Bhai Lalo during Babur Baani only and did not mention the other event of the "Malak Bhago"</p><p> </p><p>Guru knows about his deeds/thoughts/actions.</p><p> </p><p>Now the case in the point about disrespect comes; tell me one thing?</p><p> </p><p>All those people who say that there is no entity like Dharam Raj or Jamdoot, are they not insulting Guru Sahib when he has clearly mentioned in the above Sabad.</p><p> </p><p>Third thing, the compilation of Dasam Granth was done by Bhai Mani Singh ji and this fact has not been challanged by the panth till we found our Galilieo in Dr R S Jaggi.</p><p> </p><p>I would request you to mention one Gursikh widely accepted in the panth who proclaimed that Jaap Sahib and other bani recited during the Pahul were not penned by Gur Gobind Singh ji ( except the one post Dr. jaggi's research)</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Thanks!!</p><p>Explorer</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="explorer, post: 120937, member: 2331"] Tejwant ji, Let me make it clear, SGGS is the only guru of Sikhs, if there is an problem in the reflection of the same thought through any of my previous posts or if somebody feels that i think otherwise. Secondly, I have nowhere mentioned that DG has to be embraced as Guru of Sikhs or Dasam Pita had give Guruship to Dasam Granth. Its not that i am msissing something, its rather your point of view only. SGGS is a universal scripture, it has to be read, comtemplated and meditated upon to achieve inner peace of mind. The Bani inscribed by the Guru Sahib has a clear mandate of being "Dhur ki Baani aayi, tin sagli chint mitaayi" Now the Baani, which has come from the divine communion of the Guru Sahib with Akal Purakh, has also references to Raam, Ravan, Sita, Lachman, Krishan, Jadavas and others like "Sulhi", Laalo(Babur Bani). What is your view on the reference to Raam, Sita, Lachman, Baali , Ravan, Lanka mentioned in the Sabad "Nanak Dukhiya Sab Samsaar" Are these references mythological or historical? And if they are mythological why they are required in the Gurbani tool-box? And if they are history where would you go and corroborate evidence for the same elsewhere? Secondly, Why did Guru Sahib give reference to Sulhi (in the Sabad, "Sulhi te Narayan Rakh" and Lalo if he was not to mention any historical contexts. Now if you read through the Sabad of Guru Ramdas ji Maharaj about the Tapa who tried to heap insult on the Guru Amardas ji has no mention of name Khadoor, when this incident has taken place with Guru Amardas ji in Khadoor Sahib. If some detractors say that there is no mention of khadoor in this Sabad; it can not be attributed to Khadoor-tapai-wali-sakhi. ਸਲੋਕ ਮਃ ੪ ॥ ਤਪਾ ਨ ਹੋਵੈ ਅੰਦ੍ਰਹੁ ਲੋਭੀ ਨਿਤ ਮਾਇਆ ਨੋ ਫਿਰੈ ਜਜਮਾਲਿਆ ॥ ਅਗੋ ਦੇ ਸਦਿਆ ਸਤੈ ਦੀ ਭਿਖਿਆ ਲਏ ਨਾਹੀ ਪਿਛੋ ਦੇ ਪਛੁਤਾਇ ਕੈ ਆਣਿ ਤਪੈ ਪੁਤੁ ਵਿਚਿ ਬਹਾਲਿਆ ॥ ਪੰਚ ਲੋਗ ਸਭਿ ਹਸਣ ਲਗੇ ਤਪਾ ਲੋਭਿ ਲਹਰਿ ਹੈ ਗਾਲਿਆ ॥ ਜਿਥੈ ਥੋੜਾ ਧਨੁ ਵੇਖੈ ਤਿਥੈ ਤਪਾ ਭਿਟੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਧਨਿ ਬਹੁਤੈ ਡਿਠੈ ਤਪੈ ਧਰਮੁ ਹਾਰਿਆ ॥ ਭਾਈ ਏਹੁ ਤਪਾ ਨ ਹੋਵੀ ਬਗੁਲਾ ਹੈ ਬਹਿ ਸਾਧ ਜਨਾ ਵੀਚਾਰਿਆ ॥ ਸਤ ਪੁਰਖ ਕੀ ਤਪਾ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਕਰੈ ਸੰਸਾਰੈ ਕੀ ਉਸਤਤੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਏਤੁ ਦੋਖੈ ਤਪਾ ਦਯਿ ਮਾਰਿਆ ॥ ਮਹਾ ਪੁਰਖਾਂ ਕੀ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਕਾ ਵੇਖੁ ਜਿ ਤਪੇ ਨੋ ਫਲੁ ਲਗਾ ਸਭੁ ਗਇਆ ਤਪੇ ਕਾ ਘਾਲਿਆ ॥ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਬਹੈ ਪੰਚਾ ਵਿਚਿ ਤਪਾ ਸਦਾਏ ॥ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਬਹੈ ਤਪਾ ਪਾਪ ਕਮਾਏ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਅੰਦਰਲਾ ਪਾਪੁ ਪੰਚਾ ਨੋ ਉਘਾ ਕਰਿ ਵੇਖਾਲਿਆ ॥ ਧਰਮ ਰਾਇ ਜਮਕੰਕਰਾ ਨੋ ਆਖਿ ਛਡਿਆ ਏਸੁ ਤਪੇ ਨੋ ਤਿਥੈ ਖੜਿ ਪਾਇਹੁ ਜਿਥੈ ਮਹਾ ਮਹਾਂ ਹਤਿਆਰਿਆ ॥ ਫਿਰਿ ਏਸੁ ਤਪੇ ਦੈ ਮੁਹਿ ਕੋਈ ਲਗਹੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਏਹੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਹੈ ਫਿਟਕਾਰਿਆ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਕੈ ਦਰਿ ਵਰਤਿਆ ਸੁ ਨਾਨਕਿ ਆਖਿ ਸੁਣਾਇਆ ॥ ਸੋ ਬੂਝੈ ਜੁ ਦਯਿ ਸਵਾਰਿਆ ॥੧॥[COLOR=purple] [/COLOR] [COLOR=purple][/COLOR](SGGS : 315-316) Can you just think when there are many references to the greedy Pandits, jogis etc what is need of writing this Sabad in SGGS, what additional message it conveys. People who have ridiculed Bhai Randhir Singh and other gursikhs with regards to their reference of Jamdoots should go through any translations of the last two verses of this Sabad including the one by Prof. Sahib Singh ji. ----------------------------- Further you have asked me about the case of omissions; let me put it straight. I don't know why Guru Nanak Dev ji mentioned Bhai Lalo during Babur Baani only and did not mention the other event of the "Malak Bhago" Guru knows about his deeds/thoughts/actions. Now the case in the point about disrespect comes; tell me one thing? All those people who say that there is no entity like Dharam Raj or Jamdoot, are they not insulting Guru Sahib when he has clearly mentioned in the above Sabad. Third thing, the compilation of Dasam Granth was done by Bhai Mani Singh ji and this fact has not been challanged by the panth till we found our Galilieo in Dr R S Jaggi. I would request you to mention one Gursikh widely accepted in the panth who proclaimed that Jaap Sahib and other bani recited during the Pahul were not penned by Gur Gobind Singh ji ( except the one post Dr. jaggi's research) Thanks!! Explorer [/QUOTE]
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Gurcharan Singh Jeonvala And Sukhbir Singh Discussion On Dasam Granth At Sur Sagar TV
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