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Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
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ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
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God Being Nirgun And Sargun
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<blockquote data-quote="pk70" data-source="post: 100294" data-attributes="member: 5889"><p><strong>Respected VSGrewal Ji</strong></p><p> <strong>I am awfully sorry to say that you haven’t answered anything, why? Let’s go back to questions put to you</strong></p><p> <strong>Questions</strong></p><p> <strong>1. How you can call Him a Principal or spiritual metaphysical energy when it’s not the concept Guru illustrates. If you call HIM infinite energy only that at least doesn’t curb the concept of God because in this context energy stands for infinite power</strong></p><p> <strong>2. You call God “It” but Guru’s address HIM as a powerful entity that could be called with many words describing relations well created by humans, why are you breaking away from them. They didn’t curb their call of Him as only“it” Oh” or with one single name, actually they have brought God right into us as our dear relation that goes above “it”, no doubt is left and that is the beauty of God.</strong></p><p> <strong><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=591&punjabi=t&id=25927#l25927" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪੰਨਾ</span> 591, [/FONT]<span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਤਰ</span> 19[/FONT]</a> </strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਇਸੁ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜਗ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਹਿ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪੁਰਖੁ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਏਕੁ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਹੈ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਹੋਰ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: #ab5555"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਗਲੀ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: #ab5555"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾਰ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਿ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਬਾਈ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">॥[/FONT]</span></strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: black">इसु[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">जग[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">महि[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">पुरखु[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">एकु[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">है[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">होर[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">सगली[/FONT]</span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: black">Is jag mėh purak</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ẖ[/FONT]</span><span style="color: black"> ek hai hor saglī nār sabā</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">▫[/FONT]</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black">ī.</span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: black">In this world, there is one Husband Lord; all other beings are His brides.</span></strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: green"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਃ</span></span><span style="color: green"> 3</span> - </strong><strong><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=591&L=19&id=25927" target="_blank">view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok</a> (you can click it here and read the whole Shabad)</strong></p><p> <strong> What is your reason behind it? </strong></p><p> <strong>Your quote in reference to question # 3</strong></p><p> <span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਅਵਿਗਤੋ <strong>ਨਿਰਮਾਇਲੁ ਉਪਜੇ ਨਿਰਗੁਣ ਤੇਸਰਗੁਣੁ ਥੀਆ </strong></span></span><strong><span style="color: red">॥[/FONT]</span></strong><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'"> ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪਰਚੈ ਪਰਮ ਪਦੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਸਾਚੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਸਮਾਇ ਲੀਆ </span>॥[/FONT]<span style="font-family: 'Raavi'"> ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪਰਚੈ ਪਰਮ ਪਦੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਸਾਚੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਸਮਾਇ ਲੀਆ </span>॥[/FONT]<span style="font-family: 'Raavi'"> ਏਕੇ ਕਉ ਸਚੁ ਏਕਾ ਜਾਣੈ ਹਉਮੈ ਦੂਜਾ ਦੂਰਿ ਕੀਆ </span>॥[/FONT]<span style="font-family: 'Raavi'"> ਸੋ ਜੋਗੀ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਕਮਲੁ ਪ੍ਰਗਾਸੁ ਥੀਆ </span>॥[/FONT]<span style="font-family: 'Raavi'"> ਸੋ ਜੋਗੀ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਕਮਲੁ ਪ੍ਰਗਾਸੁ ਥੀਆ </span>॥[/FONT]<span style="font-family: 'Raavi'"> ਜੀਵਤੁ ਮਰੈ ਤਾ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਸੂਝੈ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਸਰਬ ਦਇਆ </span>॥[/FONT]<span style="font-family: 'Raavi'"> ਨਾਨਕ ਤਾ ਕਉ ਮਿਲੈ ਵਡਾਈ ਆਪੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ ਸਰਬ ਜੀਆ </span>॥[/FONT]<span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੨੪</span>॥[/FONT]</p><p>[/FONT]</p><p> <strong><em><span style="color: red">Aviga</span></em></strong><strong><em><span style="color: red">ṯ[/FONT]</span><span style="color: red">o nirmā*il upjė nirgu</span></em></strong><strong><em><span style="color: red">ṇṯ[/FONT]</span><span style="color: red">ė sargu</span></em></strong><strong><em><span style="color: red">ṇ[/FONT]</span><span style="color: red"> thī*ā.</span></em></strong><em> Sa</em><em>ṯ[/FONT]gur parc</em><em>ẖ[/FONT]ai param pa</em><em>ḏ[/FONT] pā</em><em>▫[/FONT]</em><em>ī</em><em>▫[/FONT]</em><em>ai sāc</em><em>ẖ[/FONT]ai saba</em><em>ḏ[/FONT] samā</em><em>▫[/FONT]</em><em>e lī</em><em>▫[/FONT]</em><em>ā. Ėke ka</em><em>▫[/FONT]</em><em>o sac</em><em>ẖ[/FONT] ekā jā</em><em>ṇ[/FONT]ai ha</em><em>▫[/FONT]</em><em>umai </em><em>ḏ[/FONT]ūjā </em><em>ḏ[/FONT]ūr kī</em><em>▫[/FONT]</em><em>ā. So jogī gur saba</em><em>ḏ[/FONT] pac</em><em>ẖẖ[/FONT]ā</em><em>ṇ[/FONT]ai an</em><em>ṯ[/FONT]ar kamal pargās thī</em><em>▫[/FONT]</em><em>ā. Jīva</em><em>ṯ[/FONT] marai </em><em>ṯ[/FONT]ā sab</em><em>ẖ[/FONT] kic</em><em>ẖẖ[/FONT] sūj</em><em>ẖ[/FONT]ai an</em><em>ṯ[/FONT]ar jā</em><em>ṇ[/FONT]ai sarab </em><em>ḏ[/FONT]a</em><em>▫[/FONT]</em><em>i</em><em>▫[/FONT]</em><em>ā. Nānak </em><em>ṯ[/FONT]ā ka</em><em>▫[/FONT]</em><em>o milai vadā</em><em>▫[/FONT]</em><em>ī āp pac</em><em>ẖẖ[/FONT]ā</em><em>ṇ[/FONT]ai sarab jī</em><em>▫[/FONT]</em><em>ā. ||24|| </em></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: red">From Its state of absolute existence, God assumed the immaculate form; from formless, It assumed the supreme form.</span></strong> By pleasing the True Guru, the supreme status is obtained, and one is absorbed in the True Word of the Sabd. He knows the True Akal Purkh as the One and only; he sends his egotism and duality far away. He alone is a Yogi, who realizes the Word of the Guru's Sabd; the lotus of the heart blossoms forth within. If one remains dead while yet alive, then he understands everything; he knows the Akal Purkh deep within himself, who is kind and compassionate to all. O <a href="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/guru-nanak-dev/" target="_blank">Nanak</a>, he is blessed with glorious greatness; he realizes himself in all beings. ||24|| </p><p>-----<a href="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/guru-nanak-dev/" target="_blank">Guru Nanak</a>, Raag Ramkali Sidh Gost, AGGS, Page, 940-14</p><p></p><p></p><p> <strong><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਅਵਿਗਤੋ</span></span><span style="color: red">= ,</span>means "from that cannot be seen(invisible/ beyond explanation)" (</strong><strong><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਤੋ =from)</span></span> , so</strong><strong><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਅਵਿਗਤੋ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਿਰਮਾਇਲੁ</span></span><span style="color: red">= </span> from unseen pure(that cannot be explained), it doesn’t mean absolute existence because Guru is well careful in using words in such complex contexts. In simple words, from unseen pure( Just cannot be explained) came into two forms, formless and with form</strong></p><p> <strong><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">(Question #3There is no hint about having no quality when projection of creation is not occurred as you declare in your statement that he has all quality when He creates, actually that was the point aad Ji asking you (and I as well)</span></strong></p><p> <strong><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">Your assumption lies here. Guru is crystal clear; he says that from unseen pure God came in Nirgun and Sargun. Here If you note it down there is no word to curb His entity in any sense as you have done. If you remember in one of your subtracts you say, “Sikhism is not to create saints” (the first one you posted here on SPN) in another one you declare, God talked to Nanak as “ I have given you life, enjoy it” Such statement conceived from your own assumptions and are total distortion of Gurbani because there is not any Gurbani Verse that supports that, in fact pursuit of enjoyment is discouraged to live <u>normal life</u> because that pursuit drags the soul away from the creator since enjoyment pursuit lack<u>s “satisfaction point”.</u> You must realize <u>I am not against you at all, I give you due respect</u> but tell me how can I be silent while you are telling people your own thinking by wrapping it Gurbani?</span></strong></p><p> <strong><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">With regards</span></strong></p><p> <strong><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">G Singh</span></strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pk70, post: 100294, member: 5889"] [B]Respected VSGrewal Ji[/B] [B]I am awfully sorry to say that you haven’t answered anything, why? Let’s go back to questions put to you[/B] [B]Questions[/B] [B]1. How you can call Him a Principal or spiritual metaphysical energy when it’s not the concept Guru illustrates. If you call HIM infinite energy only that at least doesn’t curb the concept of God because in this context energy stands for infinite power[/B] [B]2. You call God “It” but Guru’s address HIM as a powerful entity that could be called with many words describing relations well created by humans, why are you breaking away from them. They didn’t curb their call of Him as only“it” Oh” or with one single name, actually they have brought God right into us as our dear relation that goes above “it”, no doubt is left and that is the beauty of God.[/B] [B][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=591&punjabi=t&id=25927#l25927"][FONT=Raavi]ਪੰਨਾ[/FONT] 591, [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਸਤਰ[/FONT] 19[/FONT][/URL] [/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਇਸੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਜਗ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਮਹਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਪੁਰਖੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਏਕੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਹੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਹੋਰ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#ab5555][FONT=Raavi]ਸਗਲੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#ab5555][FONT=Raavi]ਨਾਰ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਸਬਾਈ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=black]इसु[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]जग[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]महि[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]पुरखु[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]एकु[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]है[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]होर[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]सगली[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Is jag mėh purak[/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ẖ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black] ek hai hor saglī nār sabā[/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]▫[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black]ī.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]In this world, there is one Husband Lord; all other beings are His brides.[/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=green][FONT=Raavi]ਮਃ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=green] 3[/COLOR] - [/B][B][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=591&L=19&id=25927"]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/URL] (you can click it here and read the whole Shabad)[/B] [B] What is your reason behind it? [/B] [B]Your quote in reference to question # 3[/B] [COLOR=red][FONT=Raavi]ਅਵਿਗਤੋ [B]ਨਿਰਮਾਇਲੁ ਉਪਜੇ ਨਿਰਗੁਣ ਤੇਸਰਗੁਣੁ ਥੀਆ [/B][/FONT][/COLOR][B][COLOR=red]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][FONT=Raavi] ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪਰਚੈ ਪਰਮ ਪਦੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਸਾਚੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਸਮਾਇ ਲੀਆ [/FONT]॥[/FONT][FONT=Raavi] ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪਰਚੈ ਪਰਮ ਪਦੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਸਾਚੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਸਮਾਇ ਲੀਆ [/FONT]॥[/FONT][FONT=Raavi] ਏਕੇ ਕਉ ਸਚੁ ਏਕਾ ਜਾਣੈ ਹਉਮੈ ਦੂਜਾ ਦੂਰਿ ਕੀਆ [/FONT]॥[/FONT][FONT=Raavi] ਸੋ ਜੋਗੀ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਕਮਲੁ ਪ੍ਰਗਾਸੁ ਥੀਆ [/FONT]॥[/FONT][FONT=Raavi] ਸੋ ਜੋਗੀ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਕਮਲੁ ਪ੍ਰਗਾਸੁ ਥੀਆ [/FONT]॥[/FONT][FONT=Raavi] ਜੀਵਤੁ ਮਰੈ ਤਾ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਸੂਝੈ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਸਰਬ ਦਇਆ [/FONT]॥[/FONT][FONT=Raavi] ਨਾਨਕ ਤਾ ਕਉ ਮਿਲੈ ਵਡਾਈ ਆਪੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ ਸਰਬ ਜੀਆ [/FONT]॥[/FONT][FONT=Raavi]੨੪[/FONT]॥[/FONT] [/FONT] [B][I][COLOR=red]Aviga[/COLOR][/I][/B][B][I][COLOR=red]ṯ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red]o nirmā*il upjė nirgu[/COLOR][/I][/B][B][I][COLOR=red]ṇṯ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red]ė sargu[/COLOR][/I][/B][B][I][COLOR=red]ṇ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red] thī*ā.[/COLOR][/I][/B][I] Sa[/I][I]ṯ[/FONT]gur parc[/I][I]ẖ[/FONT]ai param pa[/I][I]ḏ[/FONT] pā[/I][I]▫[/FONT][/I][I]ī[/I][I]▫[/FONT][/I][I]ai sāc[/I][I]ẖ[/FONT]ai saba[/I][I]ḏ[/FONT] samā[/I][I]▫[/FONT][/I][I]e lī[/I][I]▫[/FONT][/I][I]ā. Ėke ka[/I][I]▫[/FONT][/I][I]o sac[/I][I]ẖ[/FONT] ekā jā[/I][I]ṇ[/FONT]ai ha[/I][I]▫[/FONT][/I][I]umai [/I][I]ḏ[/FONT]ūjā [/I][I]ḏ[/FONT]ūr kī[/I][I]▫[/FONT][/I][I]ā. So jogī gur saba[/I][I]ḏ[/FONT] pac[/I][I]ẖẖ[/FONT]ā[/I][I]ṇ[/FONT]ai an[/I][I]ṯ[/FONT]ar kamal pargās thī[/I][I]▫[/FONT][/I][I]ā. Jīva[/I][I]ṯ[/FONT] marai [/I][I]ṯ[/FONT]ā sab[/I][I]ẖ[/FONT] kic[/I][I]ẖẖ[/FONT] sūj[/I][I]ẖ[/FONT]ai an[/I][I]ṯ[/FONT]ar jā[/I][I]ṇ[/FONT]ai sarab [/I][I]ḏ[/FONT]a[/I][I]▫[/FONT][/I][I]i[/I][I]▫[/FONT][/I][I]ā. Nānak [/I][I]ṯ[/FONT]ā ka[/I][I]▫[/FONT][/I][I]o milai vadā[/I][I]▫[/FONT][/I][I]ī āp pac[/I][I]ẖẖ[/FONT]ā[/I][I]ṇ[/FONT]ai sarab jī[/I][I]▫[/FONT][/I][I]ā. ||24|| [/I] [B][COLOR=red]From Its state of absolute existence, God assumed the immaculate form; from formless, It assumed the supreme form.[/COLOR][/B] By pleasing the True Guru, the supreme status is obtained, and one is absorbed in the True Word of the Sabd. He knows the True Akal Purkh as the One and only; he sends his egotism and duality far away. He alone is a Yogi, who realizes the Word of the Guru's Sabd; the lotus of the heart blossoms forth within. If one remains dead while yet alive, then he understands everything; he knows the Akal Purkh deep within himself, who is kind and compassionate to all. O [URL="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/guru-nanak-dev/"]Nanak[/URL], he is blessed with glorious greatness; he realizes himself in all beings. ||24|| -----[URL="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/guru-nanak-dev/"]Guru Nanak[/URL], Raag Ramkali Sidh Gost, AGGS, Page, 940-14 [B][COLOR=red][FONT=Raavi]ਅਵਿਗਤੋ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red]= ,[/COLOR]means "from that cannot be seen(invisible/ beyond explanation)" ([/B][B][COLOR=red][FONT=Raavi]ਤੋ =from)[/FONT][/COLOR] , so[/B][B][COLOR=red][FONT=Raavi]ਅਵਿਗਤੋ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=red][FONT=Raavi]ਨਿਰਮਾਇਲੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red]= [/COLOR] from unseen pure(that cannot be explained), it doesn’t mean absolute existence because Guru is well careful in using words in such complex contexts. In simple words, from unseen pure( Just cannot be explained) came into two forms, formless and with form[/B] [B][FONT=Raavi](Question #3There is no hint about having no quality when projection of creation is not occurred as you declare in your statement that he has all quality when He creates, actually that was the point aad Ji asking you (and I as well)[/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Raavi]Your assumption lies here. Guru is crystal clear; he says that from unseen pure God came in Nirgun and Sargun. Here If you note it down there is no word to curb His entity in any sense as you have done. If you remember in one of your subtracts you say, “Sikhism is not to create saints” (the first one you posted here on SPN) in another one you declare, God talked to Nanak as “ I have given you life, enjoy it” Such statement conceived from your own assumptions and are total distortion of Gurbani because there is not any Gurbani Verse that supports that, in fact pursuit of enjoyment is discouraged to live [U]normal life[/U] because that pursuit drags the soul away from the creator since enjoyment pursuit lack[U]s “satisfaction point”.[/U] You must realize [U]I am not against you at all, I give you due respect[/U] but tell me how can I be silent while you are telling people your own thinking by wrapping it Gurbani?[/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Raavi]With regards[/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Raavi]G Singh[/FONT][/B] [/QUOTE]
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God Being Nirgun And Sargun
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