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Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh
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<blockquote data-quote="Astroboy" data-source="post: 63813" data-attributes="member: 4990"><p>ਮਾਸੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਰਿ ਮੂਰਖੁ ਝਗੜੇ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਣੈ ॥</p><p>ਕਉਣੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਉਣੁ ਸਾਗੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਕਿਸੁ ਮਹਿ ਪਾਪ ਸਮਾਣੇ ॥</p><p>(Ang 1289-1290) Var of Raag Malhar</p><p>Only the fool quarrels over the question of eating or not eating of the meat. He does not have the True Wisdom. Without True Wisdom or Meditation, he harps on which is flesh and which is not flesh and which food is sinful and which is not. <strong>A deeper study of the whole hymn brings out: </strong></p><p> </p><p>i. Herein, Guru Sahib is addressing a Vaishnav Pandit who believes that he can achieve his spiritual goal only by avoiding meat as food and not trying to obtain the true wisdom through meditation. He has stressed that only avoiding meat will not lead one to the achievement of Spiritual Bliss if one does not do Naam-Simran. This equally applies to all, including non-meat-eating Sikhs. </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="font-size: 10px">ii. It relates to the flesh or meat in general and not to any particular type of flesh - whether prepared by Halaal or Jhatka method. The supporters of flesh eating do not accept at all the intake of all types of meat, but according to them, only Jhatka meat is permissible and HaIaal is totally prohibited.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Supporters of the word Kuthha to mean Halaal meat very often reference the following cited couplet to support their contention.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">ਅਭਾਖਿਆ ਕਾ ਕੁਠਾ ਬਕਰਾ ਖਾਣਾ ॥</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">ਚਉਕੇ ਉਪਰਿ ਕਿਸੈ ਨ ਜਾਣਾ ॥</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">(Ang 472) </span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">They eat the meat obtained while uttering the unspeakable word (referring to Qalima of the Muslims which the Hindus considered as unspeakable) and allow none to enter their kitchen square. </span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">They ascribe it to mean the meat obtained by slaying goats while uttering Qalima, which is the Muslim way of slaughtering animals. <strong><span style="color: darkorchid">If the word Kuthha were to mean HaIaai meat, the use of the word abhakhya is superfluous. The sentence should have been simply Kuthha Khaanaa to mean the eating of the HaIaaI meat.</span></strong> The very fact that the word Kuthha has been qualified with the adjective abhakhya kaa means that Kuthha refers to simple meat of the killed animal, irrespective of the method of slaying the animal; and while qualifying meat to mean Haiaai, the words abhakhya kaa had to be particularly prefixed to convey that sense. <strong>Almost all the renowned commentators and translators of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, e.g., Bhai Sahib Vir Singh, Professor Sahib Singh, S. Manmohan Singh, etc., have interpreted this couplet in this way. </strong></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">It is thus clear that the word Kuthha means simply meat of the killed animal and does not go into the detail of how the animal is killed. Like so many other adulterations committed by the anti-Sikhs in Gurmat Rahit Maryada, this interpretation of the word Kuthha to mean Halaal meat has also been initiated and popularized by those very anti- Sikhs. To some of our uninformed brothers and sisters this at first might seem like a trivial issue, but when taken into context of its importance with regard to our relation with Akaal Purakh Ji through rehit (discipline) it is indeed a very serious and vital issue towards being true to the Sikh discipline prescribed by Guru Sahib.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="font-size: 10px">Note: References to various hukamname and Gurbani Pankthea from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which prohibit the eating of animal flesh in clear-cut and unambiguous language provided below.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><strong>Food for Thought</strong></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="font-size: 10px">When we are blessed with Khande Ki Pahul from Guru Sahib in the form of Panj Pyare we make a firm commitment to Guru Sahib to uphold the rehit (discipline) prescribed to us at all times as a show of our love for Him. Indeed the upkeep of rehit is of prime importance for a Sikh for without it, one cannot be called a Sikh:</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="font-size: 10px">Without the Code of Conduct, One can not be referred to as a Sikh. </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Without the Code of Conduct, One will suffer in the Lord's Court. </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">(RahitNama Bhai Desa Singh Ji)</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="font-size: 10px">Subsequesntly if a Sikh is to commit one of the four bujjer kurehits (serious transgressions) they can no longer be called a Sikh and must beg forgiveness from the Panj Pyare and request to be blessed with Khande Ki Pahul once again so they can rejoin the Khalsa Panth. </span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="font-size: 10px">Among the four major transgressions is the consumption of meat/eggs, as is instructed at all amrit sanchars throughout the panth. In recent times this has become an issue for some uninformed and misguided individuals and many individuals have abused the ignorance of some of our Sikh brothers and sisters as a means to divide us. Others seek to brush the issue off as a trivial matter having nothing to do with Sikh discipline. Indeed this is not a trivial issue, as the aforementioned rehitnama indicates, for without discipline we cannot be called a Sikh, and we cannot obtain the Grace of the SatGuru Ji without which no progress can be made in achieving the bliss of Naam Simran.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><strong>The Solution</strong></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="font-size: 10px">Everyday in our Ardas (Supplication) to Guru Sahib we ask Him to bless us with Bibek, literally meaning a sense of discernment/discrimination. Discrimination in the sense that we ask Him to guide us towards those things/individuals who incite God consciousness/Godlike qualities within us and to save us from those things/individuals which rob us from God consciousness/ Godlike qualities. Essentially at the root it is Maya (lust, anger, greed, attachment, ego), the five thieves which rob us of our innate Godlike qualities and keep us in separation from Akaal Purakh Ji. To fight off these five formidable thieves Guru Sahib gives us Naam and tells us to keep the sangat of Gursikhs. </span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">This includes eating from the hands of Gursikhs also as it is an established truth that the food one eats affects not only the body's health, but the state of the mind as well, as the old saying goes, 'you are what you eat.' That is why Guru Nanak Sahib refused to accept the most nourishing and dainty dishes prepared in the house of Malik Bhago who earned his wealth by dishonest means but preferred the simple dry food prepared by the so called low-caste carpenter, Bhai Lalo who earned an honest livelihood from his own hard labor. Similarly, Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji refused to drink water brought by a young man who had never done any service to anyone in his life, as service to humanity and honest living are fundamental pillars of the Sikh faith. Subsequently Guru Sahib commanded the recipients of the holy Amrit to share food amongst themselves in the same plate, but forbade them to do so with non-Amritdharis. One of the edicts given at the Amrit Sanchar ceremony is: </span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="font-size: 10px">ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਦੀ ਰੋਟੀ ਬੇਟੀ ਦੀ ਸਾਂਝ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਨਾਲ।</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">The Gursikhs have to share food and establish martial relationships with Gursikhs only.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="font-size: 10px">This edict is enjoined upon all the Sikhs at the inititation ceremony at every Amrit Sanchar in the Panth irrespective of organizations or Jathas arranging it.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="font-size: 10px">As with many Sikh traditions that are slowly being forgotten, so too is the tradition of keeping Bibek, discrimination towards God Consciousness in both the physical and mental realms of existence. Some say that this tradition does not seem to fit in line with Gurmat as it creates a sense of elitism and others go the extent of saying that the practice reeks of Brahminism. This assumption is clearly based on their own ignorance regarding Gurmat principles and traditions. Every human being regardless of their background is eligible to offer their head to Guru Sahib, and be blessed with Khande Ki Pahul to join the Khalsa Panth after which one can share food with them. This is diametrically opposed to the Brahminical system where one is confined to one particular cast for the duration of their lifetime, for instance an untouchable would remain and untouchable and nothing could change this. </span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><strong><span style="color: mediumturquoise">Anyhow going back to how this relates to the current dilemma facing the SGPC and those Sikh brothers and sisters who have been led astray to believe that the consumption of meat is in line with Gurmat.</span></strong> If these Sikhs were to adopt Tat Gurmat Maryada tradition as espoused by all the Guru Sahiban then they would not face this dilemma. If we were to all become true Bibeki's at both the physical and mental level then this would not be a problem for us. Who is a Bibeki you ask? A Bibeki is a person who whole heartedly adheres to and regulates their life in accordance with the Guru's teachings. </span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Bhai Sahib Kahan Singh of Nabha, in his Encyclopedia of Sikh Literature on page 863 defines a Bibeki as "...a Sikh who is strict and steadfast in following the principles of Sikh Dharma." The terms Bibek and Vivek are synonymous and have the same meaning i.e. 'sense of discrimination; which implies the unquestionable adherence to the command of the Satguru. Our SatGuru has clearly commanded His Sikhs to be steadfast in Rehit and not to consume meat of any form as has been proven above. If we really love our Guru then we must be true to the discipline He has given us. <strong><span style="color: royalblue">It is high time that the faulty Sikh leadership stop misleading our brothers and sisters into believing that Kuthha is synonymous with Halal meat.</span></strong> Its high time that we as individuals make it our own responsibility to be true to rehit so that we can attain the blessings of Satguru Ji. Most of the books and today's pseudo scholars are out to divide the Sikhs by propagating this false information, what better way to do this then to have the Sikhs separated from their Guru; for without Guru Sahib, without his true rehit, we are nothing more than dead carcasses</span></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Astroboy, post: 63813, member: 4990"] ਮਾਸੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਰਿ ਮੂਰਖੁ ਝਗੜੇ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਣੈ ॥ ਕਉਣੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਉਣੁ ਸਾਗੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਕਿਸੁ ਮਹਿ ਪਾਪ ਸਮਾਣੇ ॥ (Ang 1289-1290) Var of Raag Malhar Only the fool quarrels over the question of eating or not eating of the meat. He does not have the True Wisdom. Without True Wisdom or Meditation, he harps on which is flesh and which is not flesh and which food is sinful and which is not. [B]A deeper study of the whole hymn brings out: [/B] i. Herein, Guru Sahib is addressing a Vaishnav Pandit who believes that he can achieve his spiritual goal only by avoiding meat as food and not trying to obtain the true wisdom through meditation. He has stressed that only avoiding meat will not lead one to the achievement of Spiritual Bliss if one does not do Naam-Simran. This equally applies to all, including non-meat-eating Sikhs. [FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]ii. It relates to the flesh or meat in general and not to any particular type of flesh - whether prepared by Halaal or Jhatka method. The supporters of flesh eating do not accept at all the intake of all types of meat, but according to them, only Jhatka meat is permissible and HaIaal is totally prohibited.[/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=2][FONT=Verdana]Supporters of the word Kuthha to mean Halaal meat very often reference the following cited couplet to support their contention.[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Verdana]ਅਭਾਖਿਆ ਕਾ ਕੁਠਾ ਬਕਰਾ ਖਾਣਾ ॥[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Verdana]ਚਉਕੇ ਉਪਰਿ ਕਿਸੈ ਨ ਜਾਣਾ ॥[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Verdana](Ang 472) [/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Verdana]They eat the meat obtained while uttering the unspeakable word (referring to Qalima of the Muslims which the Hindus considered as unspeakable) and allow none to enter their kitchen square. [/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Verdana]They ascribe it to mean the meat obtained by slaying goats while uttering Qalima, which is the Muslim way of slaughtering animals. [B][COLOR=darkorchid]If the word Kuthha were to mean HaIaai meat, the use of the word abhakhya is superfluous. The sentence should have been simply Kuthha Khaanaa to mean the eating of the HaIaaI meat.[/COLOR][/B] The very fact that the word Kuthha has been qualified with the adjective abhakhya kaa means that Kuthha refers to simple meat of the killed animal, irrespective of the method of slaying the animal; and while qualifying meat to mean Haiaai, the words abhakhya kaa had to be particularly prefixed to convey that sense. [B]Almost all the renowned commentators and translators of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, e.g., Bhai Sahib Vir Singh, Professor Sahib Singh, S. Manmohan Singh, etc., have interpreted this couplet in this way. [/B][/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Verdana]It is thus clear that the word Kuthha means simply meat of the killed animal and does not go into the detail of how the animal is killed. Like so many other adulterations committed by the anti-Sikhs in Gurmat Rahit Maryada, this interpretation of the word Kuthha to mean Halaal meat has also been initiated and popularized by those very anti- Sikhs. To some of our uninformed brothers and sisters this at first might seem like a trivial issue, but when taken into context of its importance with regard to our relation with Akaal Purakh Ji through rehit (discipline) it is indeed a very serious and vital issue towards being true to the Sikh discipline prescribed by Guru Sahib.[/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]Note: References to various hukamname and Gurbani Pankthea from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which prohibit the eating of animal flesh in clear-cut and unambiguous language provided below.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2][B]Food for Thought[/B][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]When we are blessed with Khande Ki Pahul from Guru Sahib in the form of Panj Pyare we make a firm commitment to Guru Sahib to uphold the rehit (discipline) prescribed to us at all times as a show of our love for Him. Indeed the upkeep of rehit is of prime importance for a Sikh for without it, one cannot be called a Sikh:[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]Without the Code of Conduct, One can not be referred to as a Sikh. [/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=2][FONT=Verdana]Without the Code of Conduct, One will suffer in the Lord's Court. [/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Verdana](RahitNama Bhai Desa Singh Ji)[/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]Subsequesntly if a Sikh is to commit one of the four bujjer kurehits (serious transgressions) they can no longer be called a Sikh and must beg forgiveness from the Panj Pyare and request to be blessed with Khande Ki Pahul once again so they can rejoin the Khalsa Panth. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]Among the four major transgressions is the consumption of meat/eggs, as is instructed at all amrit sanchars throughout the panth. In recent times this has become an issue for some uninformed and misguided individuals and many individuals have abused the ignorance of some of our Sikh brothers and sisters as a means to divide us. Others seek to brush the issue off as a trivial matter having nothing to do with Sikh discipline. Indeed this is not a trivial issue, as the aforementioned rehitnama indicates, for without discipline we cannot be called a Sikh, and we cannot obtain the Grace of the SatGuru Ji without which no progress can be made in achieving the bliss of Naam Simran.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2][B]The Solution[/B][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]Everyday in our Ardas (Supplication) to Guru Sahib we ask Him to bless us with Bibek, literally meaning a sense of discernment/discrimination. Discrimination in the sense that we ask Him to guide us towards those things/individuals who incite God consciousness/Godlike qualities within us and to save us from those things/individuals which rob us from God consciousness/ Godlike qualities. Essentially at the root it is Maya (lust, anger, greed, attachment, ego), the five thieves which rob us of our innate Godlike qualities and keep us in separation from Akaal Purakh Ji. To fight off these five formidable thieves Guru Sahib gives us Naam and tells us to keep the sangat of Gursikhs. [/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=2][FONT=Verdana]This includes eating from the hands of Gursikhs also as it is an established truth that the food one eats affects not only the body's health, but the state of the mind as well, as the old saying goes, 'you are what you eat.' That is why Guru Nanak Sahib refused to accept the most nourishing and dainty dishes prepared in the house of Malik Bhago who earned his wealth by dishonest means but preferred the simple dry food prepared by the so called low-caste carpenter, Bhai Lalo who earned an honest livelihood from his own hard labor. Similarly, Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji refused to drink water brought by a young man who had never done any service to anyone in his life, as service to humanity and honest living are fundamental pillars of the Sikh faith. Subsequently Guru Sahib commanded the recipients of the holy Amrit to share food amongst themselves in the same plate, but forbade them to do so with non-Amritdharis. One of the edicts given at the Amrit Sanchar ceremony is: [/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਦੀ ਰੋਟੀ ਬੇਟੀ ਦੀ ਸਾਂਝ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਨਾਲ।[/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=2][FONT=Verdana]The Gursikhs have to share food and establish martial relationships with Gursikhs only.[/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]This edict is enjoined upon all the Sikhs at the inititation ceremony at every Amrit Sanchar in the Panth irrespective of organizations or Jathas arranging it.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]As with many Sikh traditions that are slowly being forgotten, so too is the tradition of keeping Bibek, discrimination towards God Consciousness in both the physical and mental realms of existence. Some say that this tradition does not seem to fit in line with Gurmat as it creates a sense of elitism and others go the extent of saying that the practice reeks of Brahminism. This assumption is clearly based on their own ignorance regarding Gurmat principles and traditions. Every human being regardless of their background is eligible to offer their head to Guru Sahib, and be blessed with Khande Ki Pahul to join the Khalsa Panth after which one can share food with them. This is diametrically opposed to the Brahminical system where one is confined to one particular cast for the duration of their lifetime, for instance an untouchable would remain and untouchable and nothing could change this. [/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=2][FONT=Verdana][B][COLOR=mediumturquoise]Anyhow going back to how this relates to the current dilemma facing the SGPC and those Sikh brothers and sisters who have been led astray to believe that the consumption of meat is in line with Gurmat.[/COLOR][/B] If these Sikhs were to adopt Tat Gurmat Maryada tradition as espoused by all the Guru Sahiban then they would not face this dilemma. If we were to all become true Bibeki's at both the physical and mental level then this would not be a problem for us. Who is a Bibeki you ask? A Bibeki is a person who whole heartedly adheres to and regulates their life in accordance with the Guru's teachings. [/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Verdana]Bhai Sahib Kahan Singh of Nabha, in his Encyclopedia of Sikh Literature on page 863 defines a Bibeki as "...a Sikh who is strict and steadfast in following the principles of Sikh Dharma." The terms Bibek and Vivek are synonymous and have the same meaning i.e. 'sense of discrimination; which implies the unquestionable adherence to the command of the Satguru. Our SatGuru has clearly commanded His Sikhs to be steadfast in Rehit and not to consume meat of any form as has been proven above. If we really love our Guru then we must be true to the discipline He has given us. [B][COLOR=royalblue]It is high time that the faulty Sikh leadership stop misleading our brothers and sisters into believing that Kuthha is synonymous with Halal meat.[/COLOR][/B] Its high time that we as individuals make it our own responsibility to be true to rehit so that we can attain the blessings of Satguru Ji. Most of the books and today's pseudo scholars are out to divide the Sikhs by propagating this false information, what better way to do this then to have the Sikhs separated from their Guru; for without Guru Sahib, without his true rehit, we are nothing more than dead carcasses[/FONT][/SIZE] [/QUOTE]
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Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh
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