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Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh
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<blockquote data-quote="Akashdeep Singh" data-source="post: 49549" data-attributes="member: 3640"><p>Khalsa Ji,</p><p></p><p>Some of the Gurbani has been misreprented by people at various forums by just picking a few incomplete lines and then doing word to word translation to English without explaining properly (thanks to a friend of mine for noting this and bring to notice). I keep re-iterating that without knowing the Gurbani related history and understanding the context in which it was said, to whom it was said and in what conditions it is not possible to understanding Gurbani.</p><p></p><p>At many places the following lines have been presented in the argument against meat eating. In reality, they are not refering to meat eating. <ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: Blue">ਜੀਅ ਬਧਹੁ ਸੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਕਰਿ ਥਾਪਹੁ ਅਧਰਮੁ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਤ ਭਾਈ ॥ ਆਪਸ ਕਉ ਮੁਨਿਵਰ ਕਰਿ ਥਾਪਹੁ ਕਾ ਕਉ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਸਾਈ</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਜੇ ਰਤੁ ਲਗੈ ਕਪੜੈ ਜਾਮਾ ਹੋਇ ਪਲੀਤੁ ॥ ਜੋ ਰਤੁ ਪੀਵਿਹ ਮਾਣਸਾ ਤਿਨ ਕਿਉਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਚੀਤੁ ॥ </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਬੇਦੁ ਪੜੈ ਮੁਖਿ ਮੀਠੀ ਬਾਣੀ ॥ ਜੀਆਂ ਕੁਹਤ ਨ ਸੰਗੈ ਪਰਾਣੀ ॥</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: Blue">ਬਾਬਾ ਹੋਰੁ ਖਾਣਾ ਖੁਸੀ ਖੁਆਰੁ ॥ </span><span style="color: #0000ff">ਜਿਤੁ ਖਾਧੈ ਤਨੁ ਪੀੜੀਐ ਮਨ ਮਿਹ ਚਲਿਹ ਵਿਕਾਰ ॥</span></li> </ol><p><span style="color: Blue"><span style="color: Black">Now please note where these lines were said and in what context. To get the whole picture yours truly is also including the lines adjacent to the above lines in Gurbani in the form of paragraphs rather than picking just a line or two.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: Blue"><span style="color: Black"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: Blue"><span style="color: Black"></span></span> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><u>The 1st line above has been taken from</u>: -</li> </ul> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Blue">ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ ਬਾਣੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਉ ਕੀ ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ਪਡੀਆ ਕਵਨ ਕੁਮਤਿ ਤੁਮ ਲਾਗੇ ॥ ਬੂਡਹੁਗੇ ਪਰਵਾਰ ਸਕਲ ਸਿਉ ਰਾਮੁ ਨ ਜਪਹੁ ਅਭਾਗੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਪੜੇ ਕਾ ਕਿਆ ਗੁਨੁ ਖਰ ਚੰਦਨ ਜਸ ਭਾਰਾ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਕੀ ਗਤਿ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਨੀ ਕੈਸੇ ਉਤਰਸਿ ਪਾਰਾ ॥੧॥ ਜੀਅ ਬਧਹੁ ਸੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਕਰਿ ਥਾਪਹੁ ਅਧਰਮੁ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਤ ਭਾਈ ॥ ਆਪਸ ਕਉ ਮੁਨਿਵਰ ਕਰਿ ਥਾਪਹੁ ਕਾ ਕਉ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਸਾਈ ॥੨॥ਮਨ ਕੇ ਅੰਧੇ ਆਪਿ ਨ ਬੂਝਹੁ ਕਾਹਿ ਬੁਝਾਵਹੁ ਭਾਈ ॥ ਮਾਇਆ ਕਾਰਨ ਬਿਦਿਆ ਬੇਚਹੁ ਜਨਮੁ ਅਬਿਰਥਾ ਜਾਈ ॥੩॥ ਨਾਰਦ ਬਚਨ ਬਿਆਸੁ ਕਹਤ ਹੈ ਸੁਕ ਕਉ ਪੂਛਹੁ ਜਾਈ ॥ ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮੈ ਰਮਿ ਛੂਟਹੁ ਨਾਹਿ ਤ ਬੂਡੇ ਭਾਈ ॥੪॥੧॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 1102-1103}</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">At this place Bhagat Kabir was questioning the pandits at the place near Kashi where there was tradtion of performing the sacrifices of animals and also of humans at one point of time. In addition to challenging their shallow knowledge, Kabir is challenging the pandits here of their dual-policies as well. He is telling them <em><strong>"On one hand you people(the pandits) call the meat-sellers as sinnners and on the other hand you yourself are performing the "bali" (sacrifice of animal or human). How can you have such dual policies?. If you can perform the "bali and yet like to be called as best sages then how can the meat-sellers be sinners??"</strong></em></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">To me this agrument of Bhagat Kabir ji seems more like ridiculing the hypocrisies of the pandits than ridiculing the meat eater. One has to also understand where,with whom and in what context the speaker was speaking. This talk from Kabir ji was related to the pandits of Kashi, their shallow knowledge, bali and hypocrisies. Not about eating or not-eating meat.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><u>The 2nd line above has been taken from</u>: -</li> </ul> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਜੇ ਰਤੁ ਲਗੈ ਕਪੜੈ ਜਾਮਾ ਹੋਇ ਪਲੀਤੁ ॥ ਜੋ ਰਤੁ ਪੀਵਿਹ ਮਾਣਸਾ ਤਿਨ ਕਿਉਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਚੀਤੁ ॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: #0000ff"> ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਉ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਕਾ ਦਿਲ ਹਛੈ ਮੁਖਿ ਲੇਹੁ ॥ ਅਵਿਰ ਦਿਵਾਜੇ ਦੁਨੀ ਕੇ ਝੂਠ ਅਮਲ ਕਰੇਹੁ ॥੧॥{ਪੰਨਾ 140}</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">These lines have been said in context to those who do "namaaj" but whose hearts are not clear and they trouble other humans. The meaning here is, </p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong><em>"Its believed that if the jama (worn clothes) get tarnished with blood one cannot do namaaj. How can be those people untarnished (pure) who earn by illegitimate means and oppress others humans?. O Nanak! remember the Almighty with a pure heart all other external showcasing is useless" </em></strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">In Punjabi, metaphorically speaking we say, <em>"Mera khoon na choos"</em>- it means "Do not irritate/trouble me". Similarly, the phrase in Gurbani above is a metaphorical use of the phrase <em>"jo ruth peevehi maanusaa"</em></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><u>The 3rd line above has been taken from</u>:-</li> </ul> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: #0000ff"> ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ ਧੋਤੀ ਖੋਲਿ ਵਿਛਾਏ ਹੇਠਿ ॥ ਗਰਧਪ ਵਾਂਗੂ ਲਾਹੇ ਪੇਟਿ ॥੧॥ ਬਿਨੁ ਕਰਤੂਤੀ ਮੁਕਿਤ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ॥ ਮੁਕਿਤ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਈਐ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਪੂਜਾ ਤਿਲਕ ਕਰਤ ਇਸਨਾਨ ॥ ਛੁਰੀ ਕਾਢਿ ਲੇਵੈ ਹਿਥ ਦਾਨਾ ॥੨॥ ਬੇਦੁ ਪੜੈ ਮੁਖਿ ਮੀਠੀ ਬਾਣੀ ॥ ਜੀਆਂ ਕੁਹਤ ਨ ਸੰਗੈ ਪਰਾਣੀ ॥੩॥ ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਸੁ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਧਾਰੈ ॥ ਹਿਰਦਾ ਸੁਧੁ ਬ ਹਮੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੈ ॥੪॥੧੦੭॥{ਪੰਨਾ 201}</span> </p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">This talk is on the pandits who eat from their "yajmaan" (the host or the follower?). The meaning is -</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong><em>"The pandits go to the home of their followers/hosts and open half of their "dhoti" (cloth worn for lower half of body) and spread it on the ground and sit and eat there like a donkey. He applies "tilak" (mark on forehead) and takes bath and perform "pooja" (a form of worshipping where the idols etc. are worshipped). </em></strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong><em> He eats from his host but does not think once while betraying the same host by misguiding him by telling lies about heaven and hell and frightening them. From his mouth, the pandit pretends speaking very sweet and speaks of vedas, but from the inside he is a cheat and never feels ashamed of betraying his host. </em></strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong><em> O Nanak! the one who has been blessed by the Almighty that person remembers the Almighty from his heart" </em></strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><u>The 4rth line above has been taken from</u>:-</li> </ul> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: #0000ff"> ਸਿਭ ਰਸ ਮਿਠ ਮੰਨਿਐ ਸੁਣਿਐ ਸਾਲੋਣੇ ॥ ਖਟ ਤੁਰਸੀ ਮੁਖਿ ਬੋਲਣਾ ਮਾਰਣ ਨਾਦ ਕੀਏ ॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: #0000ff"> ਛਤੀਹ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਭਾਉ ਏਕੁ ਜਾ ਕਉ ਨਦਿਰ ਕਰੇਇ ॥੧॥ ਬਾਬਾ ਹੋਰੁ ਖਾਣਾ ਖੁਸੀ ਖੁਆਰੁ ॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: #0000ff"> ਜਿਤੁ ਖਾਧੈ ਤਨੁ ਪੀੜੀਐ ਮਨ ਮਿਹ ਚਲਿਹ ਵਿਕਾਰ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 16-17}</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">This whole para is metaphorical and is telling what is the ideal food for thought. Here the remembrance of Almighty is compared with all the tastes of the world. Its mentioned that living life according to Gurus knowledge you feel like having all the dishes and then later it is mentioned that other "dishes" which case disease of the body and mind are bad. What could be other (antonym) of "Guru's Knowledge"? -clearly, "manmatt". I see no reference to meat eating here.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Translation :-</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong><em>"If mind gets involved in the remembrance of the Almighty, then it is like all the sweet dishes of the world. If the conscience becomes one with the Almighty, then it is like salty dish. Speaking of the knowledge of the Guru from mouth is like a sour dish. The appreciation of Almighty and singing of his orders is like spices. Uniform love for Almighty is like dishes of various tastes that you can think of. But this great gift is only won by those who get blessings of the Almighty. Oh Beloved! those feedings cause destruction whose eating causes diseases in the body and mind."</em></strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong><em></em></strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>And now please note the lines from Gurbani that have been said various times and still people fail to understand</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff"> ਪਾਂਡੇ ਤੂ ਜਾਣੈ ਹੀ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਿਥਹੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਉਪੰਨਾ ॥</span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff">ਤੋਇਅਹੁ ਅੰਨੁ ਕਮਾਦੁ ਕਪਾਹਾਂ ਤੋਇਅਹੁ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣੁ ਗੰਨਾ ॥ </span></p><p></p><p><em><strong> O Pandit, you do not know where did flesh originate! It is water where life originated and it is water that sustains all life. It is water that produces grains, sugarcane, cotton and all forms of life.</strong></em></p><p><em><strong>AGGS, M 1, p 1289.<span style="color: Red">*</span></strong></em></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff"> ਮਾਸੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਰਿ ਮੂਰਖੁ ਝਗੜੇ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਣੈ ॥</span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff">ਕਉਣੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਉਣੁ ਸਾਗੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਕਿਸੁ ਮਹਿ ਪਾਪ ਸਮਾਣੇ ॥ </span></p><p></p><p><strong><em>Only fools quarrel over the partaking of flesh, as they do not have knowledge and understanding of the subjectwhat is flesh and what is vegetable? Why the eating of one is sin, not the eating of the other as both are obtained from living things? <span style="color: Red">*</span> </em></strong></p><p></p><p><em><span style="color: Red"><strong>*</strong></span> These 2 translations are courtsey of Dr. Baldev Singh ji.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em> Why is it so hard to understand? Gurbani is very clear about this issue. Nobody will be a sinner just because he/she ate meat. Water is the source of life on this earth and you drink water everyday, it also has life. Vegetation also has life. If you are thinking one life is greater then other then you are wrong. Also, Gurbani does not tell you that by eating meat you will become a better Sikh. It clearly says that lust of anything is wrong. The summary is very simple - <strong>meat eating is neither encouraged nor discouraged in Sikhism. If you need it, eat it. If you feel bad eating it, just don't eat it but don't call others as less Sikhs. Just by eating or not-eating meat you cannot be one with the Akaal.</strong></p><p><u></u></p><p><u></u></p><p><u></u></p><p><u>Copyright</u>: Please do not pick the translation lines from here and present them in distorted form on other forums. Feel free to use them if you keep the words intact, also drop me note where you will be using them.</p><p></p><p>Sat Shri Akaal,</p><p>-Akashdeep</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Akashdeep Singh, post: 49549, member: 3640"] Khalsa Ji, Some of the Gurbani has been misreprented by people at various forums by just picking a few incomplete lines and then doing word to word translation to English without explaining properly (thanks to a friend of mine for noting this and bring to notice). I keep re-iterating that without knowing the Gurbani related history and understanding the context in which it was said, to whom it was said and in what conditions it is not possible to understanding Gurbani. At many places the following lines have been presented in the argument against meat eating. In reality, they are not refering to meat eating.[LIST=1] [*][COLOR=Blue]ਜੀਅ ਬਧਹੁ ਸੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਕਰਿ ਥਾਪਹੁ ਅਧਰਮੁ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਤ ਭਾਈ ॥ ਆਪਸ ਕਉ ਮੁਨਿਵਰ ਕਰਿ ਥਾਪਹੁ ਕਾ ਕਉ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਸਾਈ[/COLOR] [*][COLOR=#0000ff]ਜੇ ਰਤੁ ਲਗੈ ਕਪੜੈ ਜਾਮਾ ਹੋਇ ਪਲੀਤੁ ॥ ਜੋ ਰਤੁ ਪੀਵਿਹ ਮਾਣਸਾ ਤਿਨ ਕਿਉਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਚੀਤੁ ॥ [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=#0000ff]ਬੇਦੁ ਪੜੈ ਮੁਖਿ ਮੀਠੀ ਬਾਣੀ ॥ ਜੀਆਂ ਕੁਹਤ ਨ ਸੰਗੈ ਪਰਾਣੀ ॥[/COLOR] [*][COLOR=Blue]ਬਾਬਾ ਹੋਰੁ ਖਾਣਾ ਖੁਸੀ ਖੁਆਰੁ ॥ [/COLOR][COLOR=#0000ff]ਜਿਤੁ ਖਾਧੈ ਤਨੁ ਪੀੜੀਐ ਮਨ ਮਿਹ ਚਲਿਹ ਵਿਕਾਰ ॥[/COLOR][/LIST][COLOR=Blue][COLOR=Black]Now please note where these lines were said and in what context. To get the whole picture yours truly is also including the lines adjacent to the above lines in Gurbani in the form of paragraphs rather than picking just a line or two. [/COLOR][/COLOR][LIST] [*][U]The 1st line above has been taken from[/U]: -[/LIST][INDENT][COLOR=Blue]ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ ਬਾਣੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਉ ਕੀ ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ਪਡੀਆ ਕਵਨ ਕੁਮਤਿ ਤੁਮ ਲਾਗੇ ॥ ਬੂਡਹੁਗੇ ਪਰਵਾਰ ਸਕਲ ਸਿਉ ਰਾਮੁ ਨ ਜਪਹੁ ਅਭਾਗੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਪੜੇ ਕਾ ਕਿਆ ਗੁਨੁ ਖਰ ਚੰਦਨ ਜਸ ਭਾਰਾ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਕੀ ਗਤਿ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਨੀ ਕੈਸੇ ਉਤਰਸਿ ਪਾਰਾ ॥੧॥ ਜੀਅ ਬਧਹੁ ਸੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਕਰਿ ਥਾਪਹੁ ਅਧਰਮੁ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਤ ਭਾਈ ॥ ਆਪਸ ਕਉ ਮੁਨਿਵਰ ਕਰਿ ਥਾਪਹੁ ਕਾ ਕਉ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਸਾਈ ॥੨॥ਮਨ ਕੇ ਅੰਧੇ ਆਪਿ ਨ ਬੂਝਹੁ ਕਾਹਿ ਬੁਝਾਵਹੁ ਭਾਈ ॥ ਮਾਇਆ ਕਾਰਨ ਬਿਦਿਆ ਬੇਚਹੁ ਜਨਮੁ ਅਬਿਰਥਾ ਜਾਈ ॥੩॥ ਨਾਰਦ ਬਚਨ ਬਿਆਸੁ ਕਹਤ ਹੈ ਸੁਕ ਕਉ ਪੂਛਹੁ ਜਾਈ ॥ ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮੈ ਰਮਿ ਛੂਟਹੁ ਨਾਹਿ ਤ ਬੂਡੇ ਭਾਈ ॥੪॥੧॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 1102-1103}[/COLOR] At this place Bhagat Kabir was questioning the pandits at the place near Kashi where there was tradtion of performing the sacrifices of animals and also of humans at one point of time. In addition to challenging their shallow knowledge, Kabir is challenging the pandits here of their dual-policies as well. He is telling them [I][B]"On one hand you people(the pandits) call the meat-sellers as sinnners and on the other hand you yourself are performing the "bali" (sacrifice of animal or human). How can you have such dual policies?. If you can perform the "bali and yet like to be called as best sages then how can the meat-sellers be sinners??"[/B][/I] To me this agrument of Bhagat Kabir ji seems more like ridiculing the hypocrisies of the pandits than ridiculing the meat eater. One has to also understand where,with whom and in what context the speaker was speaking. This talk from Kabir ji was related to the pandits of Kashi, their shallow knowledge, bali and hypocrisies. Not about eating or not-eating meat. [/INDENT][LIST] [*][U]The 2nd line above has been taken from[/U]: -[/LIST][INDENT][COLOR=#0000ff]ਜੇ ਰਤੁ ਲਗੈ ਕਪੜੈ ਜਾਮਾ ਹੋਇ ਪਲੀਤੁ ॥ ਜੋ ਰਤੁ ਪੀਵਿਹ ਮਾਣਸਾ ਤਿਨ ਕਿਉਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਚੀਤੁ ॥ [/COLOR] [COLOR=#0000ff] ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਉ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਕਾ ਦਿਲ ਹਛੈ ਮੁਖਿ ਲੇਹੁ ॥ ਅਵਿਰ ਦਿਵਾਜੇ ਦੁਨੀ ਕੇ ਝੂਠ ਅਮਲ ਕਰੇਹੁ ॥੧॥{ਪੰਨਾ 140}[/COLOR] These lines have been said in context to those who do "namaaj" but whose hearts are not clear and they trouble other humans. The meaning here is, [B][I]"Its believed that if the jama (worn clothes) get tarnished with blood one cannot do namaaj. How can be those people untarnished (pure) who earn by illegitimate means and oppress others humans?. O Nanak! remember the Almighty with a pure heart all other external showcasing is useless" [/I][/B] In Punjabi, metaphorically speaking we say, [I]"Mera khoon na choos"[/I]- it means "Do not irritate/trouble me". Similarly, the phrase in Gurbani above is a metaphorical use of the phrase [I]"jo ruth peevehi maanusaa"[/I] [/INDENT][LIST] [*][U]The 3rd line above has been taken from[/U]:-[/LIST][INDENT][COLOR=#0000ff] ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ ਧੋਤੀ ਖੋਲਿ ਵਿਛਾਏ ਹੇਠਿ ॥ ਗਰਧਪ ਵਾਂਗੂ ਲਾਹੇ ਪੇਟਿ ॥੧॥ ਬਿਨੁ ਕਰਤੂਤੀ ਮੁਕਿਤ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ॥ ਮੁਕਿਤ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਈਐ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਪੂਜਾ ਤਿਲਕ ਕਰਤ ਇਸਨਾਨ ॥ ਛੁਰੀ ਕਾਢਿ ਲੇਵੈ ਹਿਥ ਦਾਨਾ ॥੨॥ ਬੇਦੁ ਪੜੈ ਮੁਖਿ ਮੀਠੀ ਬਾਣੀ ॥ ਜੀਆਂ ਕੁਹਤ ਨ ਸੰਗੈ ਪਰਾਣੀ ॥੩॥ ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਸੁ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਧਾਰੈ ॥ ਹਿਰਦਾ ਸੁਧੁ ਬ ਹਮੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੈ ॥੪॥੧੦੭॥{ਪੰਨਾ 201}[/COLOR] This talk is on the pandits who eat from their "yajmaan" (the host or the follower?). The meaning is - [B][I]"The pandits go to the home of their followers/hosts and open half of their "dhoti" (cloth worn for lower half of body) and spread it on the ground and sit and eat there like a donkey. He applies "tilak" (mark on forehead) and takes bath and perform "pooja" (a form of worshipping where the idols etc. are worshipped). [/I][/B] [B][I] He eats from his host but does not think once while betraying the same host by misguiding him by telling lies about heaven and hell and frightening them. From his mouth, the pandit pretends speaking very sweet and speaks of vedas, but from the inside he is a cheat and never feels ashamed of betraying his host. [/I][/B] [B][I] O Nanak! the one who has been blessed by the Almighty that person remembers the Almighty from his heart" [/I][/B] [/INDENT][LIST] [*][U]The 4rth line above has been taken from[/U]:-[/LIST][INDENT][COLOR=#0000ff]ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥ [/COLOR] [COLOR=#0000ff] ਸਿਭ ਰਸ ਮਿਠ ਮੰਨਿਐ ਸੁਣਿਐ ਸਾਲੋਣੇ ॥ ਖਟ ਤੁਰਸੀ ਮੁਖਿ ਬੋਲਣਾ ਮਾਰਣ ਨਾਦ ਕੀਏ ॥ [/COLOR] [COLOR=#0000ff] ਛਤੀਹ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਭਾਉ ਏਕੁ ਜਾ ਕਉ ਨਦਿਰ ਕਰੇਇ ॥੧॥ ਬਾਬਾ ਹੋਰੁ ਖਾਣਾ ਖੁਸੀ ਖੁਆਰੁ ॥ [/COLOR] [COLOR=#0000ff] ਜਿਤੁ ਖਾਧੈ ਤਨੁ ਪੀੜੀਐ ਮਨ ਮਿਹ ਚਲਿਹ ਵਿਕਾਰ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 16-17}[/COLOR] This whole para is metaphorical and is telling what is the ideal food for thought. Here the remembrance of Almighty is compared with all the tastes of the world. Its mentioned that living life according to Gurus knowledge you feel like having all the dishes and then later it is mentioned that other "dishes" which case disease of the body and mind are bad. What could be other (antonym) of "Guru's Knowledge"? -clearly, "manmatt". I see no reference to meat eating here. Translation :- [B][I]"If mind gets involved in the remembrance of the Almighty, then it is like all the sweet dishes of the world. If the conscience becomes one with the Almighty, then it is like salty dish. Speaking of the knowledge of the Guru from mouth is like a sour dish. The appreciation of Almighty and singing of his orders is like spices. Uniform love for Almighty is like dishes of various tastes that you can think of. But this great gift is only won by those who get blessings of the Almighty. Oh Beloved! those feedings cause destruction whose eating causes diseases in the body and mind." [/I][/B][/INDENT]And now please note the lines from Gurbani that have been said various times and still people fail to understand [COLOR=#0000ff] ਪਾਂਡੇ ਤੂ ਜਾਣੈ ਹੀ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਿਥਹੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਉਪੰਨਾ ॥ ਤੋਇਅਹੁ ਅੰਨੁ ਕਮਾਦੁ ਕਪਾਹਾਂ ਤੋਇਅਹੁ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣੁ ਗੰਨਾ ॥ [/COLOR] [I][B] O Pandit, you do not know where did flesh originate! It is water where life originated and it is water that sustains all life. It is water that produces grains, sugarcane, cotton and all forms of life. AGGS, M 1, p 1289.[COLOR=Red]*[/COLOR][/B][/I] [COLOR=#0000ff] ਮਾਸੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਰਿ ਮੂਰਖੁ ਝਗੜੇ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਣੈ ॥ ਕਉਣੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਉਣੁ ਸਾਗੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਕਿਸੁ ਮਹਿ ਪਾਪ ਸਮਾਣੇ ॥ [/COLOR] [B][I]Only fools quarrel over the partaking of flesh, as they do not have knowledge and understanding of the subjectwhat is flesh and what is vegetable? Why the eating of one is sin, not the eating of the other as both are obtained from living things? [COLOR=Red]*[/COLOR] [/I][/B] [I][COLOR=Red][B]*[/B][/COLOR] These 2 translations are courtsey of Dr. Baldev Singh ji. [/I] Why is it so hard to understand? Gurbani is very clear about this issue. Nobody will be a sinner just because he/she ate meat. Water is the source of life on this earth and you drink water everyday, it also has life. Vegetation also has life. If you are thinking one life is greater then other then you are wrong. Also, Gurbani does not tell you that by eating meat you will become a better Sikh. It clearly says that lust of anything is wrong. The summary is very simple - [B]meat eating is neither encouraged nor discouraged in Sikhism. If you need it, eat it. If you feel bad eating it, just don't eat it but don't call others as less Sikhs. Just by eating or not-eating meat you cannot be one with the Akaal.[/B] [U] Copyright[/U]: Please do not pick the translation lines from here and present them in distorted form on other forums. Feel free to use them if you keep the words intact, also drop me note where you will be using them. Sat Shri Akaal, -Akashdeep [/QUOTE]
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