☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Sikh Sikhi Sikhism
Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Randip Singh" data-source="post: 49200" data-attributes="member: 1323"><p><span style="color: black">Spin or opinions you do not share? Everyone is entitled to an opinion as are you my friend.</span></p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">No one is playing with any of your words, I am sorry you feel like that.</span></span></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Again that is your opinion. The message to me is that your diet will not bring you closer to God, whether meat or Veggie. Each has exactly the same amount of life. No more no less.</span></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Tell me, what is wrong with putting one line into an entire shabad and putting it in context?</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Also tell me what is wrong with pointing out flaws in English translation? No matter how people try and spin it Halal and Bismil does not mean Kill, as has been written here. Even a 10 year old child knows that Bismil and Halal is something to do with Islamic ritual. Surely there is no harm in doing that?</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Also for years sites like <a href="http://www.akg.org" target="_blank">www.akg.org.......it's all in the name.q</a> and <a href="http://www.info-sikh.com" target="_blank">Sikh Information Guru Nanak Gobind Singh</a> have deliberately mistranslated and misrepresented the lines from Bani to promote their Vegetarian Agenda……………….what is wrong with redressing these sites?</span></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Senses similar to our own is not a measure of life. Tommorow Aliens may land that may have sense totally different from us…………….would they not be a life form?</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">I disagree on this point………..this is not "undeniable"……………..plants have senses. For example…..I keep plants……….I play music to my plant it grows more……I talk to my plant and it grows more……..I groom my plant and it grows more.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Scientist and lay people (like me) have done experiments on this:</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">http://www.dovesong.com/positive_music/plant_experiments.asp</span></p><p><span style="color: black">http://www.yogamag.net/archives/2000/3may00/plants.shtml</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Opinions on this vary, but my own observations have shown my plants thrive with certain music. This to me is proof enough that plants have senses.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">In addition to this my plants, breath, they breed, they feed.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">In my school days we connected a plant up to a micro meter which can pick up small currents, and found ripping leaves off plants caused massive hifts in current resembling some sort of trauma.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Also Bani tells me:</span></p><p> </p><p>Page 143 of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p style="text-align: center"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><em><span style="color: #ee4000">mehlaa 1.</span></em></span></span></p><p></p><p></p><p style="text-align: center"><em><span style="color: #ee4000">vaykh je mithaa kati-aa kat kut baDhaa paa-ay.</span></em></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p><p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>khundhaa andar rakh kai dayn so mal sajaa-ay.</em> </span></p><p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>ras kas tatar paa-ee-ai tapai tai villaa-ay.</em> </span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>bhee so fog samaalee-ai dichai ag jaalaa-ay.</em> </span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>naanak mithai patree-ai vaykhhu lokaa aa-ay.</em></span></p></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p><p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>First Mehl:</em> </span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>Look, and see how the sugar-cane is cut down. After cutting away its branches, its feet are bound together into bundles,</em> </span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>and then, it is placed between the wooden rollers and crushed.</em> </span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>What punishment is inflicted upon it! Its juice is extracted and placed in the cauldron; as it is heated, it groans and cries out.</em> </span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>And then, the crushed cane is collected and burnt in the fire below.</em> </span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>Nanak: come, people, and see how the sweet sugar-cane is treated!</em></span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><strong><span style="color: #ff6600">Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji</span></strong></span></p></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p><p></p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Totally disagree.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">According to Bani there is just as much cruelty in killing a Plant, or Mineral as killing an animal…………………….Human's are on a level above plant, minerals and animal.</span></p><p> </p><p style="text-align: center">On page 176 of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p style="text-align: center"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><em><span style="color: #ee4000">ga-orhee gu-aarayree mehlaa 5.</span></em></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p><p style="text-align: center"><em><span style="color: #ee4000">ka-ee janam bha-ay keet patangaa.</span></em></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p><p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>ka-ee janam gaj meen kurangaa.</em> </span></p><p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>ka-ee janam pankhee sarap ho-i-o.</em> </span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>ka-ee janam haivar barikh jo-i-o.</em></span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>mil jagdees milan kee baree-aa</em>. <em>chirankaal ih dayh sanjaree-aa.</em> rahaa-o. </span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>ka-ee janam sail gir kari-aa.</em> </span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>ka-ee janam garabh hir khari-aa.</em></span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>ka-ee janam saakh kar upaa-i-aa.</em> </span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>lakh cha-oraaseeh jon bharmaa-i-aa.</em> </span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>saaDhsang bha-i-o janam paraapat.</em></span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>kar sayvaa bhaj har har gurmat.</em> </span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>ti-aag maan jhooth abhimaan.</em> </span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>jeevat mareh dargeh parvaan.</em></span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>avar na doojaa karnai jog.</em> </span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>taa milee-ai jaa laihi milaa-ay.</em> </span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>kaho naanak har har gun gaa-ay.</em> </span></p></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p><p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>Gauree Gwaarayree, Fifth Mehl</em>: </span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>In so many incarnations, you were a worm and an insect;</em> </span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>in so many incarnations, you were an elephant, a fish and a deer.</em></span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>In so many incarnations, you were a bird and a snake.</em> </span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>In so many incarnations, you were yoked as an ox and a horse.</em> </span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>Meet the Lord of the Universe - now is the time to meet Him</em>.</span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>After so very long, this human body was fashioned for you.</em> Pause </span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains;</em> </span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb;</em> </span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>in so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves;</em> </span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>you wandered through 8.4 million incarnations.</em> </span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>Through the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you obtained this human life.</em> </span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>Do seva - selfless service; follow the Guru's Teachings, and vibrate the Lord's Name, Har, Har.</em></span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>Abandon pride, falsehood and arrogance.</em></span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>Remain dead while yet alive, and you shall be welcomed in the Court of the Lord.</em> </span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>Whatever has been, and whatever shall be, comes from You, Lord.</em> </span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>No one else can do anything at all.</em> </span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>We are united with You, when You unite us with Yourself.</em> </span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>Says Nanak, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, Har, Har.</em></span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><strong><span style="color: #ff6600">Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji</span></strong></span></p></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p><p></p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">I claim nothing. The message above is clear as daylight from Bani.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">On one level you have plants, animal, and minerals, and on the next level you have humans. Bani is clear on this. Re-read the shabad above:</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">How else to you explain mving from plant incarnation to human next?</span></p><p> </p><p><em><span style="color: #ee4000">in so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves;</span></em></p><p><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>you wandered through 8.4 million incarnations.</em> </span></p><p><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>Through the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you obtained this human life</em></span></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">I disagree.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">For human's to operate at optimum levels they mush have some meat. This I know from power lifting. It is not enough just to exist, but life must be about bettering ourselves. Animal's in the jungle merely "survive"…………..surviving is not the goal of humanity. Betterment and sarbat da bala is the goal of humans.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Bettering oneself mentally and physically is the goal of the Gurmukh. Vegeterians they can do it without meat.....then I say goodluck to them. My experience says otherwise.</span></p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">That is not the debate here at all. The debate is whether the life of a plant is equal to the life of an animal. In terms of Karma it clearly is according to Sikhi.</span></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Now you are being silly. Bani clearly states that human life is precious above all:</span></p><p> </p><p><em><span style="color: #ee4000">Through 8.4 million incarnations you have wandered, to obtain this rare and precious human life.</span></em></p><p><span style="color: #ee4000"><em>O Nanak, remember the Naam, the Name of the Lord; the day of departure is drawing near!</em></span></p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">To bad you have so much disdain for academics and men and women of spirituality who have dedicated their lives to Sikhism and Sikh History.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">These people are far wiser and cleverer than you or me and have far greater knowledge about Sikhi than you or me.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Many of these authors are vegetarians………..and yet they agree that meat eating and vegetarianism has nothing to do with Sikhi. </span></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">None of these references refer to the siege of Anandpur Sahib. We have been careful in making sure we didn't do that.</span></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Like I said an irrelevant point, and none of these refrences are to do with Anandpur Sahib. Some are much later, and some at the time of Guru Hargobind ji.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">On a side note, I prefer the taste of vegetarian food…..white channay a favourite. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></span></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">You are assuming too much. The input for this essay comes from vegetarians too. Don't let your ego feed your prejudices.</span></p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">An incredible amount of finger waving and pontificating. Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and contemporary History texts are available to verify the Guru's actions.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">They killed animals for:</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Symbol'">· </span></span><span style="color: black">food</span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Symbol'">· </span></span><span style="color: black">training </span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Symbol'">· </span></span><span style="color: black">and killing ferocious beasts.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">The first you and your ilk seem to be in denial about. There was no shortage of Guru ka Langaar.</span></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">A smokescreen and a common misconception. Langaar is vegetarian for the reason of Sarbat da Bala…..or everyone's benefit……………with this compromise is needed and vegetarian seemed to be a good compromise that would be acceptble to all faiths. Muslims eat Halal etc.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">From the essay:</span></p><p> </p><p><em>The reason why meat is not served at langar in the Gurdwaras is because langar is supposed to be a symbol of equality of mankind where all people no matter what race, religion or caste can eat together in the atmosphere of brotherhood. Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, it does not matter who they are. Different religions have different dietary restrictions. Hindus cannot eat cow, muslims cannot eat pork and will only eat halal meat. Jews will only eat kosher meat, others cannot eat fish or eggs. But in a gurdwara langar, it does not matter what their dietary taboos or religious beliefs are, the food is designed so that all can eat together and no one will be offended or not be able to partake of the meal. </em></p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">I am inclined to dismiss both Hukamnama's as the message of the Guru's would not have deviated. The 6th Guru's Hukamnama is always used by pro-Veggie groups……………..what we demonstrated here is an alternative view.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">The Shabad does confirm what Kuttha means actually totally. That’s why we published the entire shabad and not a snippet. You are spinning this point…..and just to confirm this point:</span></p><p> </p><p><strong>Punjabi-English Dictionary, Punjabi University, Dept. of Punjabi Lexicography, Published Dec. 1994. "Kuttha: meat of animal or fowl slaughtered slowly as prescribed by Islamic law." </strong></p><p> </p><p><strong>Punjabi English Dictionary, Singh Bros., Amritsar "Kuttha: Tortured, killed according to Mohammedan law." </strong></p><p> </p><p>This is a clasic tactic employed by AKJ type groups who wish to misinform people on this point.</p><p> </p><p>Just to reaffirm the view of Bani on Kuthaa....note how this shabad refers to Kutthaa specifically as ritualistic of Halal:</p><p> </p><p>page 956</p><p><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="color: #800000"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਃ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਮਃ </span></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=੧" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff">੧ </span></span></a><span style="font-size: 9px">॥</span></span></span><span style="font-size: 9px"> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #008080">मः १ ॥</span> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">mehlaa 1. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #000080">First Mehl:</span> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"></span><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="color: #800000"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਚ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਸਚ </span></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕੀ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਕੀ </span></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਾਤੀ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਕਾਤੀ </span></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਚੁ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਸਚੁ </span></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਭੁ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਸਭੁ </span></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਾਰੁ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਸਾਰੁ </span></span></a><span style="font-size: 9px">॥</span></span></span><span style="font-size: 9px"> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #008080">सच की काती सचु सभु सारु ॥</span> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">sach kee kaatee sach sabh saar. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #000080">The knife is Truth, and its steel is totally True.</span> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"></span><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="color: #800000"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਘਾੜਤ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਘਾੜਤ </span></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਤਿਸ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਤਿਸ </span></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕੀ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਕੀ </span></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਅਪਰ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਅਪਰ </span></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਅਪਾਰ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਅਪਾਰ </span></span></a><span style="font-size: 9px">॥</span></span></span><span style="font-size: 9px"> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #008080">घाड़त तिस की अपर अपार ॥</span> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">ghaarhat tis kee apar apaar. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #000080">Its workmanship is incomparably beautiful.</span> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"></span><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="color: #800000"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਬਦੇ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਸਬਦੇ </span></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਾਣ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਸਾਣ </span></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਰਖਾਈ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਰਖਾਈ </span></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਲਾਇ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਲਾਇ </span></span></a><span style="font-size: 9px">॥</span></span></span><span style="font-size: 9px"> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #008080">सबदे साण रखाई लाइ ॥</span> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">sabday saan rakhaa-ee laa-ay. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #000080">It is sharpened on the grindstone of the Shabad.</span> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"></span><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="color: #800000"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗੁਣ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਗੁਣ </span></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕੀ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਕੀ </span></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਥੇਕੈ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਥੇਕੈ </span></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਵਿਚਿ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਵਿਚਿ </span></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਮਾਇ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਸਮਾਇ </span></span></a><span style="font-size: 9px">॥</span></span></span><span style="font-size: 9px"> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #008080">गुण की थेकै विचि समाइ ॥</span> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">gun kee thaykai vich samaa-ay. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #000080">It is placed in the scabbard of virtue.</span> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"></span><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="color: #800000"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਤਿਸ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff"><strong>ਤਿਸ </strong></span></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਦਾ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff"><strong>ਦਾ </strong></span></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕੁਠਾ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff"><strong>ਕੁਠਾ </strong></span></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹੋਵੈ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff"><strong>ਹੋਵੈ </strong></span></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸੇਖੁ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff"><strong>ਸੇਖੁ </strong></span></span></a><span style="font-size: 9px"><strong>॥</strong></span></span></span><span style="font-size: 9px"><strong> </strong></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><strong><span style="color: #008080">तिस दा कुठा होवै सेखु ॥</span> </strong></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><strong>tis daa kuthaa hovai saykh. </strong></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><strong><span style="color: #000080">If the Shaykh is killed with that,</span> </strong></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><strong></strong></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><strong></strong></span><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="color: #800000"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਲੋਹੂ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff"><strong>ਲੋਹੂ </strong></span></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਲਬੁ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff"><strong>ਲਬੁ </strong></span></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਨਿਕਥਾ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff"><strong>ਨਿਕਥਾ </strong></span></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਵੇਖੁ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff"><strong>ਵੇਖੁ </strong></span></span></a><span style="font-size: 9px"><strong>॥</strong></span></span></span><span style="font-size: 9px"><strong> </strong></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><strong><span style="color: #008080">लोहू लबु निकथा वेखु ॥</span> </strong></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><strong>lohoo lab nikthaa vaykh. </strong></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><strong><span style="color: #000080">then the blood of greed will spill out.</span> </strong></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><strong></strong></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><strong></strong></span><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="color: #800000"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹੋਇ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff"><strong>ਹੋਇ </strong></span></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹਲਾਲੁ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff"><strong>ਹਲਾਲੁ </strong></span></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਲਗੈ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff"><strong>ਲਗੈ </strong></span></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹਕਿ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff"><strong>ਹਕਿ </strong></span></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਜਾਇ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff"><strong>ਜਾਇ </strong></span></span></a><span style="font-size: 9px"><strong>॥</strong></span></span></span><span style="font-size: 9px"><strong> </strong></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><strong><span style="color: #008080">होइ हलालु लगै हकि जाइ ॥</span> </strong></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><strong>ho-ay halaal lagai hak jaa-ay. </strong></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><strong></strong><span style="color: #000080"><strong>One who is slaughtered in this ritualistic way, will be attached to the Lord</strong>.</span> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"></span><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="color: #800000"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਨਾਨਕ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਨਾਨਕ </span></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਦਰਿ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਦਰਿ </span></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਦੀਦਾਰਿ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਦੀਦਾਰਿ </span></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਮਾਇ" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਸਮਾਇ </span></span></a><span style="font-size: 9px">॥੨॥</span></span></span><span style="font-size: 9px"> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #008080">नानक दरि दीदारि समाइ ॥२॥</span> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">naanak dar deedaar samaa-ay. ||2|| </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #000080">O Nanak, at the Lord's door, he is absorbed into His Blessed Vision. ||2||</span> </span></p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">We don't dismiss the Bhagats at all………for example Sheikh Farid was a Muslim………if you read his writings he talks about the way to God through Allah and Islam……….should we follow his example and become Muslims?</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Clearly not……the Guru's were selective in what porions of the Bhagats teachings they incorporated the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji……and only that which showed a common belief.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Another example is Bhaghat Kabir stating it is sinful to sit in the company of women……………clearly against the teachings of Bani.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">I suggest you read more about the Bhagats and find out what was actually left out.</span></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">I think you need to learn where groups like GNNSJ, AKJ etc had their roots from. KDS knows more about this than me, but many definitely have or have had Hindu Vaishnav links.</span></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">You are confusing the issue.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Halal is an attempt to appease God……….Jhatka or Langar is of any kind, a prayer said afterwards is thanking God for the food. A massive difference. Too bad you cannot understand this.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">The fact that the plant suffers still after being cut shows how humane Jhatka is………….because after Jhatka the animal is dead. Nowhere in Bani does it say the animal suffers for ages……but it dos so say about plants.</span></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">I probably agree with a lot of this, but the shabad is all embracing…..it talks about flesh in all its uses and about consumption as well. This shabad is addressing people like you who seem to think they have the spiritual and moral higher ground because they don't eat meat. If Guruji thought so lowly of people who eat meat and work with meat he never would have included shabads from Sheikh Farid or Sadana.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Bhai Gurdas goes further and sings the praises of Goat Meat in particular:</span></p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="color: #993300"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Pauri 13 (Bakari de alankar ton upades)</span></span></strong></p><p><span style="color: #993300"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Hasati akhaju guman kari sihu satana koi na khai</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #993300"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Hoi nimani bakari din duni vadiai pai</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #993300"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Maranai paranai maniai jag bhog paravanu karai</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #993300"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Masu pavitr grihast no andhahu tar vichari vajai</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #993300"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Chamare dian kari jutia sadhu charan saran liv lai</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #993300"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Tur pakhavaj maride kiratanu sadh sangati sukhadai</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #993300"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Sadh sangati satigur saranai</span></span></p><p><strong><span style="color: #993300"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Pauri 13 - (Lesson from goat)</span></span></strong></p><p><span style="color: #993300"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">The proud elephant is inedible and none eats the mighty lion. Goat is humble and hence is is respected everywhere. On occaissions of death, joy, marriage, yajna, etc only its meat is accepted. Among the householders its meat is acknowledged as sacred and with its gut stringed instruments are made. From its leather the shoes are made to be used by the the saints merged in their meditation upon the Lord. Drums are mounted by its skin and then in the holy congregation the delight-giving kirtan, eulogy of the Lord is sung. In fact, going to the holy congregation is the same as going to the shelter of the true Guru.</span></span></p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Manmukh…….I have been civil till now with you and I suggest a civil tongue from you. You suffer from the malady that many vegetarians and meat eaters suffer from and that is Egotism………………..Hankaar clouds your judgement and when someone has an answer for your every question you resort to cheapshots?!!!</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">I won't play that game……………..If I am a Manmukh in your eyes, then I consider that a blessing……………..I must be telling the truth.</span></p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">I maybe wrong, but you have not come out with a single coherent point to convince me otherwise. If anything you have reconfirmed my view and that of Bani that people who espouse a certain diet whether Vegetarian or meat eater are full of Egotism.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">As for risk…..my conscience is clear…..I have no guilt…..I accept food in good faith…..meat or vegetarian. </span></p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Who says you are the majority? Most Gursikh's I know don't quibble about diet. Some are Vegetarian and some are Meat eaters. All Amritdhari's and United Sikh brothers. Your statements I feel are nothing but divisive to that Union.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Why should I deny my body essential Amino's you only get from meat? Essential oil from fish that help my joint and brain? You don't want to eat meat……I respect that…………….so please respect my choice as a Sikh not to be vegetarian.</span></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">I thought this thread was going to be constructive………..unfortunately you have ended it on a sour note with personal attacks. I hope and pray you do not carry on other debates like this.</span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Randip Singh, post: 49200, member: 1323"] [COLOR=black]Spin or opinions you do not share? Everyone is entitled to an opinion as are you my friend.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Arial]No one is playing with any of your words, I am sorry you feel like that.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Again that is your opinion. The message to me is that your diet will not bring you closer to God, whether meat or Veggie. Each has exactly the same amount of life. No more no less.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Tell me, what is wrong with putting one line into an entire shabad and putting it in context?[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Also tell me what is wrong with pointing out flaws in English translation? No matter how people try and spin it Halal and Bismil does not mean Kill, as has been written here. Even a 10 year old child knows that Bismil and Halal is something to do with Islamic ritual. Surely there is no harm in doing that?[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Also for years sites like [URL="http://www.akg.org"]www.akg.org.......it's all in the name.q[/URL] and [URL="http://www.info-sikh.com"]Sikh Information Guru Nanak Gobind Singh[/URL] have deliberately mistranslated and misrepresented the lines from Bani to promote their Vegetarian Agenda……………….what is wrong with redressing these sites?[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Senses similar to our own is not a measure of life. Tommorow Aliens may land that may have sense totally different from us…………….would they not be a life form?[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]I disagree on this point………..this is not "undeniable"……………..plants have senses. For example…..I keep plants……….I play music to my plant it grows more……I talk to my plant and it grows more……..I groom my plant and it grows more.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Scientist and lay people (like me) have done experiments on this:[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]http://www.dovesong.com/positive_music/plant_experiments.asp[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]http://www.yogamag.net/archives/2000/3may00/plants.shtml[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Opinions on this vary, but my own observations have shown my plants thrive with certain music. This to me is proof enough that plants have senses.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]In addition to this my plants, breath, they breed, they feed.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]In my school days we connected a plant up to a micro meter which can pick up small currents, and found ripping leaves off plants caused massive hifts in current resembling some sort of trauma.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Also Bani tells me:[/COLOR] Page 143 of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji [CENTER][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][I][COLOR=#ee4000]mehlaa 1.[/COLOR][/I][/FONT][/SIZE][/CENTER] [CENTER][I][COLOR=#ee4000]vaykh je mithaa kati-aa kat kut baDhaa paa-ay.[/COLOR][/I] [CENTER][COLOR=#ee4000][I]khundhaa andar rakh kai dayn so mal sajaa-ay.[/I] [/COLOR] [CENTER][COLOR=#ee4000][I]ras kas tatar paa-ee-ai tapai tai villaa-ay.[/I] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]bhee so fog samaalee-ai dichai ag jaalaa-ay.[/I] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]naanak mithai patree-ai vaykhhu lokaa aa-ay.[/I][/COLOR][/CENTER] [CENTER][COLOR=#ee4000][I]First Mehl:[/I] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]Look, and see how the sugar-cane is cut down. After cutting away its branches, its feet are bound together into bundles,[/I] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]and then, it is placed between the wooden rollers and crushed.[/I] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]What punishment is inflicted upon it! Its juice is extracted and placed in the cauldron; as it is heated, it groans and cries out.[/I] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]And then, the crushed cane is collected and burnt in the fire below.[/I] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]Nanak: come, people, and see how the sweet sugar-cane is treated![/I][/COLOR] [FONT=Times New Roman][B][COLOR=#ff6600]Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji[/COLOR][/B][/FONT][/CENTER] [/CENTER] [/CENTER] [COLOR=black]Totally disagree.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]According to Bani there is just as much cruelty in killing a Plant, or Mineral as killing an animal…………………….Human's are on a level above plant, minerals and animal.[/COLOR] [CENTER]On page 176 of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji[/CENTER] [CENTER][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][I][COLOR=#ee4000]ga-orhee gu-aarayree mehlaa 5.[/COLOR][/I][/FONT][/SIZE] [CENTER][I][COLOR=#ee4000]ka-ee janam bha-ay keet patangaa.[/COLOR][/I] [CENTER][COLOR=#ee4000][I]ka-ee janam gaj meen kurangaa.[/I] [/COLOR] [CENTER][COLOR=#ee4000][I]ka-ee janam pankhee sarap ho-i-o.[/I] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]ka-ee janam haivar barikh jo-i-o.[/I][/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]mil jagdees milan kee baree-aa[/I]. [I]chirankaal ih dayh sanjaree-aa.[/I] rahaa-o. [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]ka-ee janam sail gir kari-aa.[/I] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]ka-ee janam garabh hir khari-aa.[/I][/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]ka-ee janam saakh kar upaa-i-aa.[/I] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]lakh cha-oraaseeh jon bharmaa-i-aa.[/I] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]saaDhsang bha-i-o janam paraapat.[/I][/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]kar sayvaa bhaj har har gurmat.[/I] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]ti-aag maan jhooth abhimaan.[/I] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]jeevat mareh dargeh parvaan.[/I][/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]avar na doojaa karnai jog.[/I] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]taa milee-ai jaa laihi milaa-ay.[/I] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]kaho naanak har har gun gaa-ay.[/I] [/COLOR][/CENTER] [CENTER][COLOR=#ee4000][I]Gauree Gwaarayree, Fifth Mehl[/I]: [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]In so many incarnations, you were a worm and an insect;[/I] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]in so many incarnations, you were an elephant, a fish and a deer.[/I][/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]In so many incarnations, you were a bird and a snake.[/I] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]In so many incarnations, you were yoked as an ox and a horse.[/I] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]Meet the Lord of the Universe - now is the time to meet Him[/I].[/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]After so very long, this human body was fashioned for you.[/I] Pause [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains;[/I] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb;[/I] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]in so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves;[/I] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]you wandered through 8.4 million incarnations.[/I] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]Through the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you obtained this human life.[/I] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]Do seva - selfless service; follow the Guru's Teachings, and vibrate the Lord's Name, Har, Har.[/I][/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]Abandon pride, falsehood and arrogance.[/I][/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]Remain dead while yet alive, and you shall be welcomed in the Court of the Lord.[/I] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]Whatever has been, and whatever shall be, comes from You, Lord.[/I] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]No one else can do anything at all.[/I] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]We are united with You, when You unite us with Yourself.[/I] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]Says Nanak, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, Har, Har.[/I][/COLOR] [FONT=Times New Roman][B][COLOR=#ff6600]Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji[/COLOR][/B][/FONT][/CENTER] [/CENTER] [/CENTER] [/CENTER] [COLOR=black]I claim nothing. The message above is clear as daylight from Bani.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]On one level you have plants, animal, and minerals, and on the next level you have humans. Bani is clear on this. Re-read the shabad above:[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]How else to you explain mving from plant incarnation to human next?[/COLOR] [I][COLOR=#ee4000]in so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves;[/COLOR][/I] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]you wandered through 8.4 million incarnations.[/I] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]Through the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you obtained this human life[/I][/COLOR] [COLOR=black]I disagree.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]For human's to operate at optimum levels they mush have some meat. This I know from power lifting. It is not enough just to exist, but life must be about bettering ourselves. Animal's in the jungle merely "survive"…………..surviving is not the goal of humanity. Betterment and sarbat da bala is the goal of humans.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Bettering oneself mentally and physically is the goal of the Gurmukh. Vegeterians they can do it without meat.....then I say goodluck to them. My experience says otherwise.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]That is not the debate here at all. The debate is whether the life of a plant is equal to the life of an animal. In terms of Karma it clearly is according to Sikhi.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Now you are being silly. Bani clearly states that human life is precious above all:[/COLOR] [I][COLOR=#ee4000]Through 8.4 million incarnations you have wandered, to obtain this rare and precious human life.[/COLOR][/I] [COLOR=#ee4000][I]O Nanak, remember the Naam, the Name of the Lord; the day of departure is drawing near![/I][/COLOR] [COLOR=black]To bad you have so much disdain for academics and men and women of spirituality who have dedicated their lives to Sikhism and Sikh History.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]These people are far wiser and cleverer than you or me and have far greater knowledge about Sikhi than you or me.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Many of these authors are vegetarians………..and yet they agree that meat eating and vegetarianism has nothing to do with Sikhi. [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]None of these references refer to the siege of Anandpur Sahib. We have been careful in making sure we didn't do that.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Like I said an irrelevant point, and none of these refrences are to do with Anandpur Sahib. Some are much later, and some at the time of Guru Hargobind ji.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]On a side note, I prefer the taste of vegetarian food…..white channay a favourite. :)[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]You are assuming too much. The input for this essay comes from vegetarians too. Don't let your ego feed your prejudices.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]An incredible amount of finger waving and pontificating. Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and contemporary History texts are available to verify the Guru's actions.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]They killed animals for:[/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Symbol]· [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black]food[/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Symbol]· [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black]training [/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Symbol]· [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black]and killing ferocious beasts.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]The first you and your ilk seem to be in denial about. There was no shortage of Guru ka Langaar.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]A smokescreen and a common misconception. Langaar is vegetarian for the reason of Sarbat da Bala…..or everyone's benefit……………with this compromise is needed and vegetarian seemed to be a good compromise that would be acceptble to all faiths. Muslims eat Halal etc.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]From the essay:[/COLOR] [I]The reason why meat is not served at langar in the Gurdwaras is because langar is supposed to be a symbol of equality of mankind where all people no matter what race, religion or caste can eat together in the atmosphere of brotherhood. Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, it does not matter who they are. Different religions have different dietary restrictions. Hindus cannot eat cow, muslims cannot eat pork and will only eat halal meat. Jews will only eat kosher meat, others cannot eat fish or eggs. But in a gurdwara langar, it does not matter what their dietary taboos or religious beliefs are, the food is designed so that all can eat together and no one will be offended or not be able to partake of the meal. [/I] [COLOR=black]I am inclined to dismiss both Hukamnama's as the message of the Guru's would not have deviated. The 6th Guru's Hukamnama is always used by pro-Veggie groups……………..what we demonstrated here is an alternative view.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]The Shabad does confirm what Kuttha means actually totally. That’s why we published the entire shabad and not a snippet. You are spinning this point…..and just to confirm this point:[/COLOR] [B]Punjabi-English Dictionary, Punjabi University, Dept. of Punjabi Lexicography, Published Dec. 1994. "Kuttha: meat of animal or fowl slaughtered slowly as prescribed by Islamic law." [/B] [B]Punjabi English Dictionary, Singh Bros., Amritsar "Kuttha: Tortured, killed according to Mohammedan law." [/B] This is a clasic tactic employed by AKJ type groups who wish to misinform people on this point. Just to reaffirm the view of Bani on Kuthaa....note how this shabad refers to Kutthaa specifically as ritualistic of Halal: page 956 [FONT=AnmolUniPr][COLOR=#800000][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਃ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff]ਮਃ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=੧"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff]੧ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=1]॥[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT][SIZE=1] [COLOR=#008080]मः १ ॥[/COLOR] mehlaa 1. [COLOR=#000080]First Mehl:[/COLOR] [/SIZE][FONT=AnmolUniPr][COLOR=#800000][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਚ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff]ਸਚ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕੀ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff]ਕੀ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਾਤੀ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff]ਕਾਤੀ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਚੁ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff]ਸਚੁ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਭੁ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff]ਸਭੁ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਾਰੁ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff]ਸਾਰੁ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=1]॥[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT][SIZE=1] [COLOR=#008080]सच की काती सचु सभु सारु ॥[/COLOR] sach kee kaatee sach sabh saar. [COLOR=#000080]The knife is Truth, and its steel is totally True.[/COLOR] [/SIZE][FONT=AnmolUniPr][COLOR=#800000][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਘਾੜਤ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff]ਘਾੜਤ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਤਿਸ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff]ਤਿਸ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕੀ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff]ਕੀ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਅਪਰ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff]ਅਪਰ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਅਪਾਰ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff]ਅਪਾਰ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=1]॥[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT][SIZE=1] [COLOR=#008080]घाड़त तिस की अपर अपार ॥[/COLOR] ghaarhat tis kee apar apaar. [COLOR=#000080]Its workmanship is incomparably beautiful.[/COLOR] [/SIZE][FONT=AnmolUniPr][COLOR=#800000][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਬਦੇ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff]ਸਬਦੇ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਾਣ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff]ਸਾਣ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਰਖਾਈ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff]ਰਖਾਈ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਲਾਇ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff]ਲਾਇ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=1]॥[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT][SIZE=1] [COLOR=#008080]सबदे साण रखाई लाइ ॥[/COLOR] sabday saan rakhaa-ee laa-ay. [COLOR=#000080]It is sharpened on the grindstone of the Shabad.[/COLOR] [/SIZE][FONT=AnmolUniPr][COLOR=#800000][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗੁਣ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff]ਗੁਣ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕੀ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff]ਕੀ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਥੇਕੈ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff]ਥੇਕੈ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਵਿਚਿ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff]ਵਿਚਿ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਮਾਇ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff]ਸਮਾਇ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=1]॥[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT][SIZE=1] [COLOR=#008080]गुण की थेकै विचि समाइ ॥[/COLOR] gun kee thaykai vich samaa-ay. [COLOR=#000080]It is placed in the scabbard of virtue.[/COLOR] [/SIZE][FONT=AnmolUniPr][COLOR=#800000][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਤਿਸ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff][B]ਤਿਸ [/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਦਾ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff][B]ਦਾ [/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕੁਠਾ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff][B]ਕੁਠਾ [/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹੋਵੈ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff][B]ਹੋਵੈ [/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸੇਖੁ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff][B]ਸੇਖੁ [/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=1][B]॥[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT][SIZE=1][B] [COLOR=#008080]तिस दा कुठा होवै सेखु ॥[/COLOR] tis daa kuthaa hovai saykh. [COLOR=#000080]If the Shaykh is killed with that,[/COLOR] [/B][/SIZE][FONT=AnmolUniPr][COLOR=#800000][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਲੋਹੂ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff][B]ਲੋਹੂ [/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਲਬੁ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff][B]ਲਬੁ [/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਨਿਕਥਾ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff][B]ਨਿਕਥਾ [/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਵੇਖੁ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff][B]ਵੇਖੁ [/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=1][B]॥[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT][SIZE=1][B] [COLOR=#008080]लोहू लबु निकथा वेखु ॥[/COLOR] lohoo lab nikthaa vaykh. [COLOR=#000080]then the blood of greed will spill out.[/COLOR] [/B][/SIZE][FONT=AnmolUniPr][COLOR=#800000][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹੋਇ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff][B]ਹੋਇ [/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹਲਾਲੁ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff][B]ਹਲਾਲੁ [/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਲਗੈ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff][B]ਲਗੈ [/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹਕਿ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff][B]ਹਕਿ [/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਜਾਇ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff][B]ਜਾਇ [/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=1][B]॥[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT][SIZE=1][B] [COLOR=#008080]होइ हलालु लगै हकि जाइ ॥[/COLOR] ho-ay halaal lagai hak jaa-ay. [/B][COLOR=#000080][B]One who is slaughtered in this ritualistic way, will be attached to the Lord[/B].[/COLOR] [/SIZE][FONT=AnmolUniPr][COLOR=#800000][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਨਾਨਕ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff]ਨਾਨਕ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਦਰਿ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff]ਦਰਿ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਦੀਦਾਰਿ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff]ਦੀਦਾਰਿ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਮਾਇ"][SIZE=1][COLOR=#0000ff]ਸਮਾਇ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=1]॥੨॥[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT][SIZE=1] [COLOR=#008080]नानक दरि दीदारि समाइ ॥२॥[/COLOR] naanak dar deedaar samaa-ay. ||2|| [COLOR=#000080]O Nanak, at the Lord's door, he is absorbed into His Blessed Vision. ||2||[/COLOR] [/SIZE] [COLOR=black]We don't dismiss the Bhagats at all………for example Sheikh Farid was a Muslim………if you read his writings he talks about the way to God through Allah and Islam……….should we follow his example and become Muslims?[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Clearly not……the Guru's were selective in what porions of the Bhagats teachings they incorporated the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji……and only that which showed a common belief.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Another example is Bhaghat Kabir stating it is sinful to sit in the company of women……………clearly against the teachings of Bani.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]I suggest you read more about the Bhagats and find out what was actually left out.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]I think you need to learn where groups like GNNSJ, AKJ etc had their roots from. KDS knows more about this than me, but many definitely have or have had Hindu Vaishnav links.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]You are confusing the issue.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Halal is an attempt to appease God……….Jhatka or Langar is of any kind, a prayer said afterwards is thanking God for the food. A massive difference. Too bad you cannot understand this.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]The fact that the plant suffers still after being cut shows how humane Jhatka is………….because after Jhatka the animal is dead. Nowhere in Bani does it say the animal suffers for ages……but it dos so say about plants.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]I probably agree with a lot of this, but the shabad is all embracing…..it talks about flesh in all its uses and about consumption as well. This shabad is addressing people like you who seem to think they have the spiritual and moral higher ground because they don't eat meat. If Guruji thought so lowly of people who eat meat and work with meat he never would have included shabads from Sheikh Farid or Sadana.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Bhai Gurdas goes further and sings the praises of Goat Meat in particular:[/COLOR] [B][COLOR=#993300][FONT=Verdana]Pauri 13 (Bakari de alankar ton upades)[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [COLOR=#993300][FONT=Verdana]Hasati akhaju guman kari sihu satana koi na khai[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#993300][FONT=Verdana]Hoi nimani bakari din duni vadiai pai[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#993300][FONT=Verdana]Maranai paranai maniai jag bhog paravanu karai[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#993300][FONT=Verdana]Masu pavitr grihast no andhahu tar vichari vajai[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#993300][FONT=Verdana]Chamare dian kari jutia sadhu charan saran liv lai[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#993300][FONT=Verdana]Tur pakhavaj maride kiratanu sadh sangati sukhadai[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#993300][FONT=Verdana]Sadh sangati satigur saranai[/FONT][/COLOR] [B][COLOR=#993300][FONT=Verdana]Pauri 13 - (Lesson from goat)[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [COLOR=#993300][FONT=Verdana]The proud elephant is inedible and none eats the mighty lion. Goat is humble and hence is is respected everywhere. On occaissions of death, joy, marriage, yajna, etc only its meat is accepted. Among the householders its meat is acknowledged as sacred and with its gut stringed instruments are made. From its leather the shoes are made to be used by the the saints merged in their meditation upon the Lord. Drums are mounted by its skin and then in the holy congregation the delight-giving kirtan, eulogy of the Lord is sung. In fact, going to the holy congregation is the same as going to the shelter of the true Guru.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Manmukh…….I have been civil till now with you and I suggest a civil tongue from you. You suffer from the malady that many vegetarians and meat eaters suffer from and that is Egotism………………..Hankaar clouds your judgement and when someone has an answer for your every question you resort to cheapshots?!!![/COLOR] [COLOR=black]I won't play that game……………..If I am a Manmukh in your eyes, then I consider that a blessing……………..I must be telling the truth.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]I maybe wrong, but you have not come out with a single coherent point to convince me otherwise. If anything you have reconfirmed my view and that of Bani that people who espouse a certain diet whether Vegetarian or meat eater are full of Egotism.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]As for risk…..my conscience is clear…..I have no guilt…..I accept food in good faith…..meat or vegetarian. [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Who says you are the majority? Most Gursikh's I know don't quibble about diet. Some are Vegetarian and some are Meat eaters. All Amritdhari's and United Sikh brothers. Your statements I feel are nothing but divisive to that Union.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Why should I deny my body essential Amino's you only get from meat? Essential oil from fish that help my joint and brain? You don't want to eat meat……I respect that…………….so please respect my choice as a Sikh not to be vegetarian.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]I thought this thread was going to be constructive………..unfortunately you have ended it on a sour note with personal attacks. I hope and pray you do not carry on other debates like this.[/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Sikh Sikhi Sikhism
Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top