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Sikh Sikhi Sikhism
Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh
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<blockquote data-quote="Randip Singh" data-source="post: 49103" data-attributes="member: 1323"><p><span style="color: black">In Sikhi you cannot avoid killing….that is the point. Matter cannot be destroyed or created but merely changes from one form to another.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Sikhi acknowledges that.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">The fact you do not see plants as killing is neither here nor there…….because Guruji CLEARLY does. However, the killing of plants is acceptable for you.</span></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Organic farming does not mean Vegetarianism…..it also means livestock and poultry. It means rearing and growing in a natural way as possible. No use of insecticides, steroids etc.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Daya does not mean animal cruelty. That assumption on your part is wholly wrong. Daya is compassion. A meat eater can have compassion yet vegetarians can be the most cruel. Adolf Hitler example of the most cruellest Vegetarian ever.</span></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">The apple is the fertilised egg of the tree…….it has potential to be life………..by eating it you deny it that life.</span></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Wheat ripening is a man made process……….basically you are denying wheat water………and then harvesting the wheat eggs to be criushed and eaten in bread. Again you are denying those fertilised wheat eggs (grain) a chance for life.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਜੇਤੇ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000"><strong>ਜੇਤੇ </strong></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਦਾਣੇ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000"><strong>ਦਾਣੇ </strong></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਅੰਨ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000"><strong>ਅੰਨ </strong></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕੇ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000"><strong>ਕੇ </strong></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਜੀਆ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000"><strong>ਜੀਆ </strong></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਬਾਝੁ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000"><strong>ਬਾਝੁ </strong></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਨ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000"><strong>ਨ </strong></span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕੋਇ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000"><strong>ਕੋਇ </strong></span></a><span style="color: #800000"><strong>॥</strong></span></span><strong> </strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #008080">जेते दाणे अंन के जीआ बाझु न कोइ ॥</span> </strong></p><p><strong>jaytay daanay ann kay jee-aa baajh na ko-ay. </strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #000080">As many as are the grains of corn, none is without life.</span></strong> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਪਹਿਲਾ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000">ਪਹਿਲਾ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਪਾਣੀ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000">ਪਾਣੀ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਜੀਉ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000">ਜੀਉ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹੈ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000">ਹੈ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਜਿਤੁ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000">ਜਿਤੁ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹਰਿਆ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000">ਹਰਿਆ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਭੁ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000">ਸਭੁ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕੋਇ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000">ਕੋਇ </span></a><span style="color: #800000">॥</span></span> </p><p><span style="color: #008080">पहिला पाणी जीउ है जितु हरिआ सभु कोइ ॥</span> </p><p>pahilaa paanee jee-o hai jit hari-aa sabh ko-ay. </p><p><span style="color: #000080">First, there is life in the water, by which everything else is made green.</span> </p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">When the grass grows it is trying to get to the stage where it can release its seeds (eggs), to grow….by cutting the grass you are denying it a chance to do that…..hence prevent it from procreating.</span></p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p><span style="color: black">I cannot, but in terms of Bani, this seems to be a denial that Plant has life and that we do not kill Plants or manipulate them and stop them from breeding for our own needs.</span></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Your senses will also take you to Kaam, Krodh, Moh, Lobh and Hankaar……….let us follow our senses to this too.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">The comprehension of life in all its wonders is beyond our senses………..our senses can fool us.</span></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">You would not slice part of apple from a tree, and throw the rest away………in the same way you would not do this to a cow. Sorry this is an absurd analogy.</span></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Again the same applies as the apple analogy.</span></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">That would be an attempt at unnatural manipulation………..</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Pigs breed….that is the way God made them………in the same way plants breed………both in different ways. This is again an absurd analogy.</span></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Is not the potential Jot of the apple to become a tree extinguished for your apple pie? Is not the Jot of the wheat seed to become a plant extinguished for your bread?</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">You are applying the Jot concept to a narrow set of criteria, and not in the concept of Bani.</span></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Are you denying a plant is one of Gods creatures?</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">It breeds, it feeds, it breathes etc……….again a very narrow application of what is construed as having life.</span></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">So everytime you have a mouthful of cornflakes you are a Dharmi?.............I think not.</span></p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">This is YOUR view, and not the view of Bani.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">A plant has blood, it has sap….because it is not red you have no Daya. Foe someone who is saying they have Daya this is a very narrow definition and only stretched to certain life forms.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Same thirst could be applied to thirst for plant blood (sap).</span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Randip Singh, post: 49103, member: 1323"] [COLOR=black]In Sikhi you cannot avoid killing….that is the point. Matter cannot be destroyed or created but merely changes from one form to another.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Sikhi acknowledges that.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]The fact you do not see plants as killing is neither here nor there…….because Guruji CLEARLY does. However, the killing of plants is acceptable for you.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Organic farming does not mean Vegetarianism…..it also means livestock and poultry. It means rearing and growing in a natural way as possible. No use of insecticides, steroids etc.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Daya does not mean animal cruelty. That assumption on your part is wholly wrong. Daya is compassion. A meat eater can have compassion yet vegetarians can be the most cruel. Adolf Hitler example of the most cruellest Vegetarian ever.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]The apple is the fertilised egg of the tree…….it has potential to be life………..by eating it you deny it that life.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Wheat ripening is a man made process……….basically you are denying wheat water………and then harvesting the wheat eggs to be criushed and eaten in bread. Again you are denying those fertilised wheat eggs (grain) a chance for life.[/COLOR] [FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਜੇਤੇ"][COLOR=#800000][B]ਜੇਤੇ [/B][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਦਾਣੇ"][COLOR=#800000][B]ਦਾਣੇ [/B][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਅੰਨ"][COLOR=#800000][B]ਅੰਨ [/B][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕੇ"][COLOR=#800000][B]ਕੇ [/B][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਜੀਆ"][COLOR=#800000][B]ਜੀਆ [/B][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਬਾਝੁ"][COLOR=#800000][B]ਬਾਝੁ [/B][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਨ"][COLOR=#800000][B]ਨ [/B][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕੋਇ"][COLOR=#800000][B]ਕੋਇ [/B][/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=#800000][B]॥[/B][/COLOR][/FONT][B] [COLOR=#008080]जेते दाणे अंन के जीआ बाझु न कोइ ॥[/COLOR] jaytay daanay ann kay jee-aa baajh na ko-ay. [COLOR=#000080]As many as are the grains of corn, none is without life.[/COLOR][/B] [FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਪਹਿਲਾ"][COLOR=#800000]ਪਹਿਲਾ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਪਾਣੀ"][COLOR=#800000]ਪਾਣੀ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਜੀਉ"][COLOR=#800000]ਜੀਉ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹੈ"][COLOR=#800000]ਹੈ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਜਿਤੁ"][COLOR=#800000]ਜਿਤੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹਰਿਆ"][COLOR=#800000]ਹਰਿਆ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਭੁ"][COLOR=#800000]ਸਭੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕੋਇ"][COLOR=#800000]ਕੋਇ [/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=#800000]॥[/COLOR][/FONT] [COLOR=#008080]पहिला पाणी जीउ है जितु हरिआ सभु कोइ ॥[/COLOR] pahilaa paanee jee-o hai jit hari-aa sabh ko-ay. [COLOR=#000080]First, there is life in the water, by which everything else is made green.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]When the grass grows it is trying to get to the stage where it can release its seeds (eggs), to grow….by cutting the grass you are denying it a chance to do that…..hence prevent it from procreating.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]I cannot, but in terms of Bani, this seems to be a denial that Plant has life and that we do not kill Plants or manipulate them and stop them from breeding for our own needs.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Your senses will also take you to Kaam, Krodh, Moh, Lobh and Hankaar……….let us follow our senses to this too.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]The comprehension of life in all its wonders is beyond our senses………..our senses can fool us.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]You would not slice part of apple from a tree, and throw the rest away………in the same way you would not do this to a cow. Sorry this is an absurd analogy.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Again the same applies as the apple analogy.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]That would be an attempt at unnatural manipulation………..[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Pigs breed….that is the way God made them………in the same way plants breed………both in different ways. This is again an absurd analogy.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Is not the potential Jot of the apple to become a tree extinguished for your apple pie? Is not the Jot of the wheat seed to become a plant extinguished for your bread?[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]You are applying the Jot concept to a narrow set of criteria, and not in the concept of Bani.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Are you denying a plant is one of Gods creatures?[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]It breeds, it feeds, it breathes etc……….again a very narrow application of what is construed as having life.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]So everytime you have a mouthful of cornflakes you are a Dharmi?.............I think not.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]This is YOUR view, and not the view of Bani.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]A plant has blood, it has sap….because it is not red you have no Daya. Foe someone who is saying they have Daya this is a very narrow definition and only stretched to certain life forms.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Same thirst could be applied to thirst for plant blood (sap).[/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
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Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh
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