☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Hard Talk
Financial Incentive To Improve Punjab Sex Ratio
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Sinister" data-source="post: 64139" data-attributes="member: 2684"><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">I wish to go back and re-examine this discussion in more detail in order to address your conclusions:</span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">You questioned:</span></span></p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">You really “hit the nail head on” with that question:</span></span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Lets dissect this question:</span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">“Demographic victory”:</span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">is a term that should never be used so loosely. </span></span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">What do you define as demographic victory? Or what constitutes a demographic victory?</span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">So this question is intrinsically diverse on many levels…let me show you. </span></span></span></span></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Nationality, ethnicity and religion are all non-fixed artificially constructed ideologies that show mobility via group formation and cultural diffusion. The inclusive/exclusive nature of group consciousness contributes both to spread and demise of an ideology.</span></span></span></span></strong></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Also note that no ideological school of thought is ever fixed in time and space.</span></span></span></span></strong></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #5b5b5b">The problem I have with much of what you are saying is the fact that you are treating humanity and its cultural diversity as a sub-species category…which is not the case. You are applying traditional Darwinian thought to where it is not applicable. </span></span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">And Sikhs should counter this by setting up an assembly line of babies? </span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Do you ever read what you initially write and break out into laughter? I can’t believe how primitive this logic is … it’s the same logic used by an amoeba. </span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">“God” forbid we win them ideologically through spiritual development, lets just make our women pump out more kids. If you want to go that far: The hell with women, they take to long, we’ll just grow our mindless “little-Sikhs-to-be” in test-tubes. I can see your vision now, millions of little kds clones running about voting on whatever you tell them to vote on. The only problem is people are individuals and if the ideology isn’t sound and doesn’t resonate at the proper frequency we can kiss this strategy goodbye as well.</span></span></span></span></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Well, lets not get ahead of ourselves and jump to unruly conclusions. Religion, language and yes-even culture are all panhuman traits that can be adopted through influence and spread in an entirely different manner. </span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Think of Islam and how it spread or how Sikhism spread…it didn’t sprawl from an adam and eve character and through succession of progeny but rather diffused through cultures altering them in significant ways.</span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Religious ideology and orientation can travel from human to human and is not fixed to birth. What you talk of is this notion of purity of race (along the lines of Adolph Hitler). Hitler also believed that ideology should be preserved amongst his pure race and should grow through indigenous population growth (but ironically this is how ideologies FAIL). </span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Or look at Hellenic culture and how it spread during the time of Alexander. Although the greeks were few in number, compared to the eastern kingdoms, there ideologies were adopted and embraced because they were inclusive, practical and feasible. </span></span></span></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">So we must get off this notion that the only way religion is spread is through giving birth to more children. Sikhism can very much increase influence without even a shred of indigenous Punjabi population growth. Your belief that we should have a “population race” is extremely dangerous and harmful. </span></span></span></strong></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">So your conclusion as stated here:</span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="color: black"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"> is false.</span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="color: black"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Look at agnosticism…its spread quite rapidly after the enlightenment… in many European countries 50-60% of the populace are now atheist/agnostics. These numbers continue to increase around the world.</span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="color: black"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">So “Demographic Victory” (using your own words) belongs to the ideology that promotes inclusiveness, practicality and adaptability. Humanism holds all these close to its heart thus I believe victory shall be theirs… not Islam’s.</span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sinister, post: 64139, member: 2684"] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]I wish to go back and re-examine this discussion in more detail in order to address your conclusions:[/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=3][/SIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]You questioned:[/SIZE][/FONT] [COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2][/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Tahoma][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]You really “hit the nail head on” with that question:[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Tahoma][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Tahoma][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Lets dissect this question:[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Tahoma][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]“Demographic victory”:[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Tahoma][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]is a term that should never be used so loosely. [/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Tahoma][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Tahoma][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]What do you define as demographic victory? Or what constitutes a demographic victory?[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Tahoma][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]So this question is intrinsically diverse on many levels…let me show you. [/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Tahoma][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [B][COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Tahoma][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Nationality, ethnicity and religion are all non-fixed artificially constructed ideologies that show mobility via group formation and cultural diffusion. The inclusive/exclusive nature of group consciousness contributes both to spread and demise of an ideology.[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Tahoma][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Tahoma][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Also note that no ideological school of thought is ever fixed in time and space.[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Tahoma][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [B][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=#5b5b5b]The problem I have with much of what you are saying is the fact that you are treating humanity and its cultural diversity as a sub-species category…which is not the case. You are applying traditional Darwinian thought to where it is not applicable. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B] [FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2][/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]And Sikhs should counter this by setting up an assembly line of babies? [/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Do you ever read what you initially write and break out into laughter? I can’t believe how primitive this logic is … it’s the same logic used by an amoeba. [/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]“God” forbid we win them ideologically through spiritual development, lets just make our women pump out more kids. If you want to go that far: The hell with women, they take to long, we’ll just grow our mindless “little-Sikhs-to-be” in test-tubes. I can see your vision now, millions of little kds clones running about voting on whatever you tell them to vote on. The only problem is people are individuals and if the ideology isn’t sound and doesn’t resonate at the proper frequency we can kiss this strategy goodbye as well.[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Well, lets not get ahead of ourselves and jump to unruly conclusions. Religion, language and yes-even culture are all panhuman traits that can be adopted through influence and spread in an entirely different manner. [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Think of Islam and how it spread or how Sikhism spread…it didn’t sprawl from an adam and eve character and through succession of progeny but rather diffused through cultures altering them in significant ways.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Religious ideology and orientation can travel from human to human and is not fixed to birth. What you talk of is this notion of purity of race (along the lines of Adolph Hitler). Hitler also believed that ideology should be preserved amongst his pure race and should grow through indigenous population growth (but ironically this is how ideologies FAIL). [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Or look at Hellenic culture and how it spread during the time of Alexander. Although the greeks were few in number, compared to the eastern kingdoms, there ideologies were adopted and embraced because they were inclusive, practical and feasible. [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/COLOR] [B][COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]So we must get off this notion that the only way religion is spread is through giving birth to more children. Sikhism can very much increase influence without even a shred of indigenous Punjabi population growth. Your belief that we should have a “population race” is extremely dangerous and harmful. [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/B] [COLOR=black][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]So your conclusion as stated here:[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT][/COLOR] [FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2][/SIZE][/FONT] [COLOR=black][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT='Times New Roman'][COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman] is false.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Look at agnosticism…its spread quite rapidly after the enlightenment… in many European countries 50-60% of the populace are now atheist/agnostics. These numbers continue to increase around the world.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]So “Demographic Victory” (using your own words) belongs to the ideology that promotes inclusiveness, practicality and adaptability. Humanism holds all these close to its heart thus I believe victory shall be theirs… not Islam’s.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [/FONT] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Hard Talk
Financial Incentive To Improve Punjab Sex Ratio
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top