☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Sikh History & Heritage
End Of World
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="max314" data-source="post: 25871" data-attributes="member: 2817"><p>It's alright, man...I'm not easily offended <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p> </p><p> STRONG LIKE BULL!! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p><p> </p><p>Quite frankly, I respect you for even coming here and making your views known. It's not an easy thing, and I know that a lot of my Caucasian friends get a little tentative due to the P.C. thing that has been hammered into their cubconscious about non-Caucasian ethnicities. Not to say that political correctness is a bad thing - it has its uses in terms of keeping civlity between folk and assisting in not arousing intercommunal hatred and potential violence - but it does sometimes get in the way of honest and clarity.</p><p> </p><p> But you seem like a very articulate guy/gal, so I'm sure you won't have a problem communicating your ideas <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p><p> </p><p> </p><p> There is some fiction in your truth...and some truth in your fiction <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p><p> </p><p> Yes, I said that God could not be understood...and those things that I pointed out about God were actually <strong>reasons why</strong> God cannot be understood. It's the idea that he exists beyond human constructs of life, death, morality, etc that we will never be able to understand him.</p><p> </p><p> You are also right to say that each religion seems to have its own unique set of rules as to what God is. And since it cannot be proven, the only thing one can do is to decide which description of God suits them most. Personally, the poetic vagaries of Nanak's description are so paradoxically lucid-yet-cryptic that this seems like the best way to describe God. Observe the Mool Mantra (the opening passage of the Guru Granth Sahib):</p><p> </p><p style="text-align: center"><em>"There is but one God. He is all that is.</em></p> <p style="text-align: center"><em>He is the Creator of all things, and He is all-pervasive.</em></p> <p style="text-align: center"><em>He is without fear and without emnity.</em></p> <p style="text-align: center"><em>He is timeless, unborn and self-existent.</em></p> <p style="text-align: center"><em>He is the Enlightener</em></p> <p style="text-align: center"><em>And can be realised by his grace alone.</em></p> <p style="text-align: center"><em>He was true in the beginning; He was in all ages.</em></p> <p style="text-align: center"><em>The True One, was - O, Nanak - and shall forever be."</em></p> <p style="text-align: center"><em></em><strong>~ 'Guru Granth Sahib', Japji, p.1 ~</strong></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p><p> </p><p> What's interesting is that Einstein was convinced that God could be expressed in a mathematical equation that was no longer than an inch in length. He was sure he was on the right path, but he died before he could complete his work...and no-one has since had the intellectual capacity to continue his work. The world renowned mathematician and logician, Kurt Gödel, even came up within an ontological proof of God's existence (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_ontological_proof" target="_blank">click here</a> for some mathematical mind bending <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /> ). There are plenty of other mathematical models that seem to indicate the presence of an unseen creative force.</p><p> </p><p> But even if God's existence a singular, all-pervasive entity can be proven...that still would not yield the answer to the question of "what is God?"</p><p> </p><p>The possibilities presented by that question are so vast and potentially limitless that even Nanak - after having attained enlightenment - effectively said "it's all bullshit...just get on with your lives in a moral way, forget religion, but keep humble remembering that we are all part of God and thus you should treat your fellow man with respect".</p><p> </p><p>Of course, whilst this message was progressively humanistic and wonderful, the practical problem arises: how does one hold such humanistic beliefs when the oppressive, fascist Mughal government of the time won't allow you to do so?</p><p> </p><p> Well, you debate with them.</p><p> </p><p> Nanak's followers did that.</p><p> </p><p> The Mughals started with the killings.</p><p> </p><p> You reason with them.</p><p> </p><p> Nanak's followers did that.</p><p> </p><p> Then there are more killings.</p><p> </p><p>Now, it's just taking the {censored}. Unless the sword is finally wielded, freedom of belief will be abolished and the very right to 'humanity' that all men deserve is jeopardised. The Sikkhs actually weren't fighting for 'themselves' as such. They were fighting for everyone.</p><p> </p><p>You must understand that what the Tenth Guru did was to forge the principles of Nanak into the Granth Sahib that could effectively stand as a piece of legislature of secularism and democracy...and the Khalsa warriors were the sect assigned to protect that democracy (the Akal Takht - an extension of the Golden Temple complex - is the first recorded democratic system in the subcontinent that is comprised of an elected council who vote on issues regarding the collective interests and actions of the Sikkh community).</p><p> </p><p>If the secularist democracy of the West were to somehow come to an end for whatever reason (Islamic countries nuking them, or whatever other heinous act you might care to think of), then the Granth would act as a piece of legislature that would fight for the freedom of humanity once again.</p><p> </p><p>Of course, today's Sikkhs are a little...confused with the concept of saintly militancy as the chivalric guardians of the human race (they confuse <em>themselves</em> to be the 'human race' :roll: ), but the essential principles still exist.</p><p> </p><p> They've just gotta be...dusted away a little <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p><p></p><p>Bertrand Russel concluded "that if some lucky men survive the onslaught of the third world war of atomic and hydrogen bombs, then the Sikh religion will be the only means of guiding them". Russell was asked that he was talking about the third world war, but isn't this religion capable of guiding mankind before the third world war? In reply, Russell said, "Yes, it has the capability, but the Sikhs have not brought out in the broad daylight, the splendid doctrines of this religion which has come into existence for the benefit of the entire mankind. This is their greatest sin and the Sikhs cannot be freed of it."</p><p></p><p> </p><p>No, dude...<em>The Omen</em> remake is coming out.</p><p></p><p>Get with the program <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="max314, post: 25871, member: 2817"] It's alright, man...I'm not easily offended ;) STRONG LIKE BULL!! :D Quite frankly, I respect you for even coming here and making your views known. It's not an easy thing, and I know that a lot of my Caucasian friends get a little tentative due to the P.C. thing that has been hammered into their cubconscious about non-Caucasian ethnicities. Not to say that political correctness is a bad thing - it has its uses in terms of keeping civlity between folk and assisting in not arousing intercommunal hatred and potential violence - but it does sometimes get in the way of honest and clarity. But you seem like a very articulate guy/gal, so I'm sure you won't have a problem communicating your ideas :D [FONT=Arial][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT] There is some fiction in your truth...and some truth in your fiction :D Yes, I said that God could not be understood...and those things that I pointed out about God were actually [B]reasons why[/B] God cannot be understood. It's the idea that he exists beyond human constructs of life, death, morality, etc that we will never be able to understand him. You are also right to say that each religion seems to have its own unique set of rules as to what God is. And since it cannot be proven, the only thing one can do is to decide which description of God suits them most. Personally, the poetic vagaries of Nanak's description are so paradoxically lucid-yet-cryptic that this seems like the best way to describe God. Observe the Mool Mantra (the opening passage of the Guru Granth Sahib): [CENTER][I]"There is but one God. He is all that is. He is the Creator of all things, and He is all-pervasive. He is without fear and without emnity. He is timeless, unborn and self-existent. He is the Enlightener And can be realised by his grace alone. He was true in the beginning; He was in all ages. The True One, was - O, Nanak - and shall forever be." [/I][B]~ 'Guru Granth Sahib', Japji, p.1 ~[/B] [/CENTER] What's interesting is that Einstein was convinced that God could be expressed in a mathematical equation that was no longer than an inch in length. He was sure he was on the right path, but he died before he could complete his work...and no-one has since had the intellectual capacity to continue his work. The world renowned mathematician and logician, Kurt Gödel, even came up within an ontological proof of God's existence ([URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_ontological_proof"]click here[/URL] for some mathematical mind bending :D ). There are plenty of other mathematical models that seem to indicate the presence of an unseen creative force. But even if God's existence a singular, all-pervasive entity can be proven...that still would not yield the answer to the question of "what is God?" The possibilities presented by that question are so vast and potentially limitless that even Nanak - after having attained enlightenment - effectively said "it's all bullshit...just get on with your lives in a moral way, forget religion, but keep humble remembering that we are all part of God and thus you should treat your fellow man with respect". Of course, whilst this message was progressively humanistic and wonderful, the practical problem arises: how does one hold such humanistic beliefs when the oppressive, fascist Mughal government of the time won't allow you to do so? Well, you debate with them. Nanak's followers did that. The Mughals started with the killings. You reason with them. Nanak's followers did that. Then there are more killings. Now, it's just taking the {censored}. Unless the sword is finally wielded, freedom of belief will be abolished and the very right to 'humanity' that all men deserve is jeopardised. The Sikkhs actually weren't fighting for 'themselves' as such. They were fighting for everyone. You must understand that what the Tenth Guru did was to forge the principles of Nanak into the Granth Sahib that could effectively stand as a piece of legislature of secularism and democracy...and the Khalsa warriors were the sect assigned to protect that democracy (the Akal Takht - an extension of the Golden Temple complex - is the first recorded democratic system in the subcontinent that is comprised of an elected council who vote on issues regarding the collective interests and actions of the Sikkh community). If the secularist democracy of the West were to somehow come to an end for whatever reason (Islamic countries nuking them, or whatever other heinous act you might care to think of), then the Granth would act as a piece of legislature that would fight for the freedom of humanity once again. Of course, today's Sikkhs are a little...confused with the concept of saintly militancy as the chivalric guardians of the human race (they confuse [I]themselves[/I] to be the 'human race' :roll: ), but the essential principles still exist. They've just gotta be...dusted away a little :D Bertrand Russel concluded "that if some lucky men survive the onslaught of the third world war of atomic and hydrogen bombs, then the Sikh religion will be the only means of guiding them". Russell was asked that he was talking about the third world war, but isn't this religion capable of guiding mankind before the third world war? In reply, Russell said, "Yes, it has the capability, but the Sikhs have not brought out in the broad daylight, the splendid doctrines of this religion which has come into existence for the benefit of the entire mankind. This is their greatest sin and the Sikhs cannot be freed of it." No, dude...[I]The Omen[/I] remake is coming out. Get with the program :D [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Sikh History & Heritage
End Of World
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top