☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Interfaith Dialogues
Do All Religions Lead To God?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Satyaban" data-source="post: 106846" data-attributes="member: 1692"><p>Sinister Ji:</p><p>Thank you for a great post filled with logic that can go a long way in science until we hit quantum physics and I am not sure how logic applies to God which is beyond our conception.</p><p> </p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 12px">"Theoretically, absolute uncertainty is an unattainable state. Because in order to be absolutely uncertain one must be certain that they are uncertain; such a thought extrapolates to ad infinitum in a linguistic joyride."</span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 12px">A sort of mind experiment there. I don't know why but it reminds me of I think it was Schroedinger's cat, my library leaves me wanting, where it is not determined if the cat is dead or alive until it is observed. This of course is extended to the photon question of whether it is a particle or a wave and apparently it depends on what you are looking for. You look for wave behavior you get it, particle behavior you get it. Some like Richard Feynman suggested that maybe photon are wave until observed and then collapse into particles which would mean the moon would dissolve if not observed often enough and someone must be observing the observer and so on. So logic can be a problem in science. In my using the rug as an example and so forth I had the temeritry to look at it sort of from God's perspective. So my use of the word error and such was eentirely different as I said it was impossible for God to err.</span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: black"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue">"<span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 12px">In deeper thoughts the contradictions begin. Like you said before you do not know what is good or bad or you felt unmerited to divulge good from bad. So why do you assume that God would make an error by performing an intervention? If you do not believe in good and bad you also cannot believe in the word ‘error’ as this word in linguistics is paralleled by the word wrong and carries an undesirable connotation and direct relationship with the word bad. This lack of consistency and cognitive dissonance is present in us all as I explained in my earlier posts. You also cannot believe in the word “correct” in its entirety."</span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: black">I hope I have cleared this up.</span></span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">I try very hard to separate science from religion, except where it is used to confirm or correct timelines it scripture, but it is not always easy especially when they seem to agree. I am a huge fan of Joseph Campbell and would strongly urge anyone who is seeking truth to read him to include "The Inner Reaches of Outer Space Myth and Metaphor as Religion" I have had many copies and give them away it can help explain alot about how we got to where we are from privitive cultures around the globe and into space.</span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">I have a great deal of respect for Stephen Hawking and have a bit of a story about him. He was in Italy to address a symposium on theoretical physics of course and the day before he had and audience with Pope John I believe who cordially asked him to stop his work before he found God. The following day he gave his speech as planned on just that subject. I find it fascinating that the closer we get to for lack of a better term the edge of the universe the more we know about the beginning because where ever we stand we are in the middle.</span></span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: blue">"It is postulated that before the big bang everything existed in what is termed a point in geometry/or a singularity that can be represented theoretically in mathematical theorems (eg; Penrose-Hawking Singularity theorem) but whose physical properties are all but unknown to us. This indivisible, infinitesimally small, yet infinitesimally dense singularity held the universe and all its contents including the matter and energy that would become you, me, and my Teflon reinforced, non-stick, 106 inch, George Foreman Grill. What I find intriguing is that our origins are from the same point in this massive space-time continuum…and maybe that is where we all wish to return and in this is why we posit our notion of a mono/singular God as a destination. (while ignoring the journey)"</span></span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: black">Yes indeed a singularity infiniely dense, infinitely small containing everything but God who I believe was sleeping who upon waking would create a new universe like the last one or maybe not. At the moment new laws of physics everything, maybe reversed polarities etc. I don't think it has anything to do with mono theism their was no consciousness at that time or for billions of years to come to leave even a vestige of a memory.</span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: #000000">BTW how is that George Foreman grill working for you? I eat mostly grains myself.</span></span></span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: blue">"Most cannot grasp the concept because the concept is incomplete…it is that simple…a person must not feel bashful but more enthralled and enlightened because of it’s incompleteness. That is just the way the cookie of life crumbles; as we grow older ‘the more we learn the more we know how much we don’t know”…realization of this is enlightenment... and the expansion of exploring the ever expanding branches of the unknown…an act of wisdom?"</span></span></span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: black">I am not sure if I understand you here. I understand the part about the more we know the more we learn we don't know or more simply put Ignorance is bliss.</span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 12px">All I have stated above is what I believe and how I understand it not how it is for the reader necessarily.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: #000000">Peace to you and yours</span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: blue"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: blue"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: blue"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Satyaban, post: 106846, member: 1692"] Sinister Ji: Thank you for a great post filled with logic that can go a long way in science until we hit quantum physics and I am not sure how logic applies to God which is beyond our conception. [COLOR=blue][FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]"Theoretically, absolute uncertainty is an unattainable state. Because in order to be absolutely uncertain one must be certain that they are uncertain; such a thought extrapolates to ad infinitum in a linguistic joyride."[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=blue][FONT=Arial][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=blue][COLOR=black][FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]A sort of mind experiment there. I don't know why but it reminds me of I think it was Schroedinger's cat, my library leaves me wanting, where it is not determined if the cat is dead or alive until it is observed. This of course is extended to the photon question of whether it is a particle or a wave and apparently it depends on what you are looking for. You look for wave behavior you get it, particle behavior you get it. Some like Richard Feynman suggested that maybe photon are wave until observed and then collapse into particles which would mean the moon would dissolve if not observed often enough and someone must be observing the observer and so on. So logic can be a problem in science. In my using the rug as an example and so forth I had the temeritry to look at it sort of from God's perspective. So my use of the word error and such was eentirely different as I said it was impossible for God to err.[/SIZE][/FONT] [/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=blue]"[FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]In deeper thoughts the contradictions begin. Like you said before you do not know what is good or bad or you felt unmerited to divulge good from bad. So why do you assume that God would make an error by performing an intervention? If you do not believe in good and bad you also cannot believe in the word ‘error’ as this word in linguistics is paralleled by the word wrong and carries an undesirable connotation and direct relationship with the word bad. This lack of consistency and cognitive dissonance is present in us all as I explained in my earlier posts. You also cannot believe in the word “correct” in its entirety."[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=blue][FONT=Arial][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=blue][FONT=Arial][SIZE=3][COLOR=black]I hope I have cleared this up.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=blue][FONT=Arial][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000] [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=blue][FONT=Arial][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]I try very hard to separate science from religion, except where it is used to confirm or correct timelines it scripture, but it is not always easy especially when they seem to agree. I am a huge fan of Joseph Campbell and would strongly urge anyone who is seeking truth to read him to include "The Inner Reaches of Outer Space Myth and Metaphor as Religion" I have had many copies and give them away it can help explain alot about how we got to where we are from privitive cultures around the globe and into space.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=blue][FONT=Arial][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]I have a great deal of respect for Stephen Hawking and have a bit of a story about him. He was in Italy to address a symposium on theoretical physics of course and the day before he had and audience with Pope John I believe who cordially asked him to stop his work before he found God. The following day he gave his speech as planned on just that subject. I find it fascinating that the closer we get to for lack of a better term the edge of the universe the more we know about the beginning because where ever we stand we are in the middle.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=blue][FONT=Arial][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=blue][FONT=Arial][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]"It is postulated that before the big bang everything existed in what is termed a point in geometry/or a singularity that can be represented theoretically in mathematical theorems (eg; Penrose-Hawking Singularity theorem) but whose physical properties are all but unknown to us. This indivisible, infinitesimally small, yet infinitesimally dense singularity held the universe and all its contents including the matter and energy that would become you, me, and my Teflon reinforced, non-stick, 106 inch, George Foreman Grill. What I find intriguing is that our origins are from the same point in this massive space-time continuum…and maybe that is where we all wish to return and in this is why we posit our notion of a mono/singular God as a destination. (while ignoring the journey)"[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=blue][FONT=Arial][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=blue][FONT=Arial][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue][COLOR=black]Yes indeed a singularity infiniely dense, infinitely small containing everything but God who I believe was sleeping who upon waking would create a new universe like the last one or maybe not. At the moment new laws of physics everything, maybe reversed polarities etc. I don't think it has anything to do with mono theism their was no consciousness at that time or for billions of years to come to leave even a vestige of a memory.[/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=blue][FONT=Arial][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue][COLOR=#000000]BTW how is that George Foreman grill working for you? I eat mostly grains myself.[/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=blue][FONT=Arial][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue][COLOR=#000000][/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=blue][FONT=Arial][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue][COLOR=blue]"Most cannot grasp the concept because the concept is incomplete…it is that simple…a person must not feel bashful but more enthralled and enlightened because of it’s incompleteness. That is just the way the cookie of life crumbles; as we grow older ‘the more we learn the more we know how much we don’t know”…realization of this is enlightenment... and the expansion of exploring the ever expanding branches of the unknown…an act of wisdom?"[/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=blue][FONT=Arial][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=blue][FONT=Arial][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue][COLOR=black]I am not sure if I understand you here. I understand the part about the more we know the more we learn we don't know or more simply put Ignorance is bliss.[/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]All I have stated above is what I believe and how I understand it not how it is for the reader necessarily.[/SIZE][/FONT] [COLOR=blue][FONT=Arial][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue][COLOR=#000000][/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=blue][FONT=Arial][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue][COLOR=#000000]Peace to you and yours[/COLOR] [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Interfaith Dialogues
Do All Religions Lead To God?
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top