☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Hard Talk
Interviews
Caste, Class And India's Growing Middle Class
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="dalsingh1zero1" data-source="post: 186622" data-attributes="member: 17263"><p>I don't think you've understood the underlying plank of my comments? It requires an understanding of socio-historical processes, not mathematical analysis. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think you've totally decontextualised the whole matter from its wider historical and social context above. I give some examples of why I think this is: </p><p></p><p>Firstly, we have to own up to the truth that Indian society has systematically deprived and marginalised so called 'lower castes' for centuries. This naturally has consequences/effects for both the oppressors and the oppressed. At ground level this marginalisation means the lower castes have been excluded from resources/wealth/opportunities accessible to 'higher castes' for generations. When such a scenario occurs, people become 'actors' in a social setup which enforces this status quo. As Kds has alluded to earlier, long term oppression essentially 'locks down' those on the receiving end into unfair social dynamics that prevent them having a fair shot. That is the whole point of the hierarchy. The question then becomes about leveling the playing field which has been so imbalanced for generations. </p><p></p><p>The nature of such social imbalances is that it invariably leads to an internalised sense of entitlement from the favoured groups (conscious or subconscious) and outright or subtle resentment towards upward mobility of those deemed to be beneath them in the pecking order. </p><p></p><p>So, the latter are not playing on an even field from the beginning and the former will never willingly relinquish their advantages (<strong>or even acknowledge them!</strong>). </p><p></p><p>So you have to take action to compensate for such imbalances and quotas are one way to achieve this. But even this is insufficient because once inside, the oppressed classes will often still be subjected to negative comments and softer exclusion from the people who believe that their privileges are being impinged upon. </p><p></p><p>On another note, it is well documented aspect of human nature to aspire to role models that one can relate to (i.e. from your own community). So another important consideration is that the systematic, inegalitarian setup prevents the young of the oppressed from having the necessary role models so they may aspire to the positions hitherto reserved for the privileged only, whilst the privileged have no end of such examples. </p><p></p><p>I mention the above to highlight how these deeply ingrained inegalitarian setups have long term implications for those on the receiving - that cant just be fixed with throwing a few bones out to them and expecting them to be satisfied. </p><p></p><p>Things can quickly start looking like the 'higher' castes being resentful of privileges being extended to people outside of their own identity group. Which is ironic given their own communities long term monopoly on opportunities. </p><p></p><p>Move on over and let someone else have a chance now. lol</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="dalsingh1zero1, post: 186622, member: 17263"] I don't think you've understood the underlying plank of my comments? It requires an understanding of socio-historical processes, not mathematical analysis. I think you've totally decontextualised the whole matter from its wider historical and social context above. I give some examples of why I think this is: Firstly, we have to own up to the truth that Indian society has systematically deprived and marginalised so called 'lower castes' for centuries. This naturally has consequences/effects for both the oppressors and the oppressed. At ground level this marginalisation means the lower castes have been excluded from resources/wealth/opportunities accessible to 'higher castes' for generations. When such a scenario occurs, people become 'actors' in a social setup which enforces this status quo. As Kds has alluded to earlier, long term oppression essentially 'locks down' those on the receiving end into unfair social dynamics that prevent them having a fair shot. That is the whole point of the hierarchy. The question then becomes about leveling the playing field which has been so imbalanced for generations. The nature of such social imbalances is that it invariably leads to an internalised sense of entitlement from the favoured groups (conscious or subconscious) and outright or subtle resentment towards upward mobility of those deemed to be beneath them in the pecking order. So, the latter are not playing on an even field from the beginning and the former will never willingly relinquish their advantages ([B]or even acknowledge them![/B]). So you have to take action to compensate for such imbalances and quotas are one way to achieve this. But even this is insufficient because once inside, the oppressed classes will often still be subjected to negative comments and softer exclusion from the people who believe that their privileges are being impinged upon. On another note, it is well documented aspect of human nature to aspire to role models that one can relate to (i.e. from your own community). So another important consideration is that the systematic, inegalitarian setup prevents the young of the oppressed from having the necessary role models so they may aspire to the positions hitherto reserved for the privileged only, whilst the privileged have no end of such examples. I mention the above to highlight how these deeply ingrained inegalitarian setups have long term implications for those on the receiving - that cant just be fixed with throwing a few bones out to them and expecting them to be satisfied. Things can quickly start looking like the 'higher' castes being resentful of privileges being extended to people outside of their own identity group. Which is ironic given their own communities long term monopoly on opportunities. Move on over and let someone else have a chance now. lol [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Hard Talk
Interviews
Caste, Class And India's Growing Middle Class
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top