'Naam' - My Understanding

findingmyway · #19 (**permalink**) 07-Jan-2011, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgtkhalsa

findingmyway,
It is not true that the ‘instructions’ for meditation ‘are right there.’ The instructions of how to meditate are not to be found in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or any other sacred Sikh text. This is because meditation has only been taught non-verbally by Enlightened Masters including our Sikh Gurus. Usually only one disciple learns to meditate in the lifetime of any Master, and then that disciple is crowned the next Master. In the case of the Sikh Gurus there were occasions where more than one student learned. Bhai Gurdas had learned but was never proclaimed as Guru, and Guru Hargobind was able to teach two of his sons that both became Guru. Baba Siri Chand also learned to meditate but did not learn to meditate on the Naam until he met Guru Ram Das.
The ideal of the Khalsa is that many will learn to meditate on the Naam and it will transform humanity and human society. This has clearly not happened yet. Most Sikhs do not even show interest in learning meditation. Everything short of learning to truly meditate on the Naam is a distraction from the real goal.

I honestly do not understand what you are getting at here. I said the instructions for becoming a Gurmukh are in the Guru Granth Sahib ji, our only current Guru. I do not claim to be an expert but was sharing from my understanding to date. However, it is clear that meditation is ONE aspect as much emphasis is placed on actions.

You seem to contradict yourself. If the Guru's were enlightened souls then so is the Guru Granth Sahib ji as it is the same jyot. We do not believe in any other living Guru's that will teach us anything not told in Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ. All the Guru's bani is recorded in Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ and it is the shabad, the bani that is Guru, not the physical body.

All Sikhs are told to follow the Guru Granth Sahib Ji as Guru only so where else would you get your instructions from? ANY ATTEMPT TO UNDERMINE THE GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI WILL BE DELETED IMMEDIATELY AS IT WILL BE A DIRECT VIOLATION OF TOS.

spnadmin · #20 (**permalink**) 07-Jan-2011, 04:30 AM

jgtkhalsa ji

Let's take this apart and see what we are really looking and talking about in your statement.

What do we mean by mediate?

That would be an important consideration in the discussion before taking an extreme position. Meditation according to the Vedic texts is older than than Sikhi by thousands of years. It is virtually certain that educated men, our Gurus, knew of these practices, especially since so many shabads addressed yogis who meditated.

Did any of our Gurus meditate?

There is no way to pin the answer down with certainty. However, both Guru Angad and Guru Amardas turned from Vedic practices to follow in the footsteps of Guru Nanak Dev ji. Perhaps they did indeed meditate at some point in a Vedic tradition of meditation. Indeed the Gurus have described how to meditate. It is not the Vedic way.

Is it important to know if they did or they did not? Only insofar as we understand what meaning to attach to meditate.

from Guru Amardas

ਮਨਮੁਖ ਗੁਣ ਤੈ ਬਾਹਰੇ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਮਰਦੇ ਝੂਰਿ ॥੨॥
manamukh gun thai baaharae bin naavai maradhae jhoor ||2||
The self-willed manmukhs are totally without virtue. Without the Name, they die in frustration. ||2||

ਜਿਨ ਸਬਦਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਸੁਣਿ ਮੰਨਿਆ ਤਿਨ ਮਨਿ ਧਿਆਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਸੋਇ ॥
jin sabadh guroo sun manniaa thin man dhhiaaeiaa har soe ||
Those who hear and believe in the Word of the Guru's Shabad, meditate on the Lord in their minds.

ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਭਗਤੀ ਰਤਿਆ ਮਨੁ ਤਨੁ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
anadhin bhagathee rathiaa man than niramal hoe ||
Night and day, they are steeped in devotion; their minds and bodies become pure.

ਕੂੜਾ ਰੰਗੁ ਕਸੁੰਭ ਕਾ ਬਿਨਸਿ ਜਾਇ ਦੁਖੁ ਰੋਇ ॥
koorraa rang kasunbh kaa binas jaae dhukh roe ||
The color of the world is false and weak; when it washes away, people cry out in pain.

ਜਿਸੁ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਨਾਮ ਪ੍ਰਗਾਸੁ ਹੈ ਓਹੁ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਥਿਰੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੩॥
jis andhar naam pragaas hai ouhu sadhaa sadhaa thhir hoe ||3||
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-youth/8672-naam-my-understanding.html
Those who have the Radiant Light of the Naam within, become steady and stable, forever and ever. ||3||

This is only one of many examples where "meditate" is construed in Sri Guru Granth Sahib. I hope you understand Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to be, the final, only, and everlasting Guru of the Sikhs. How is the word "meditate" used? in the sense of "dhhiaaeiaa" - complete absorption of the mind in shabad (word of the Guru). Another way to look at it: Night and day one is steeped in devotion. One's mind is dyed in the color of Satguruji's love.

So now what is the point you are trying to make? If you are a Sikh there is one Guru. If you follow in the footsteps of Guru Nanak, you also align yourself with Guru Amardas ji and accept his understanding that one aborbs one's mind in the word of the shabad, of the Guru, and becomes steeped in devotion. That is our working definition of "meditation" within the framework of Sikhi.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8672

That is the instruction that Jasleen ji was referring to and it is repeated many times in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Is another Enlightened individual required to help us proceed in this direction? No! Guru Nanak tells us that our journey to realization is a journey we take alone. Human intermediaries are not necessary.

Can or may Sikhs participate in mediation experiences conducted by the so-called "enlightened" ones? Why not? However, let us be clear that these meanings of meditation are not what Guru Amardas ji was talking about. That "enlightened" ones are also human, and humans can mislead us if they are themselves blinded by false ego or the desire to make a buck.

So it is not so much that Sikhs are unaware, but rather Sikhs believe they have a different solution. Let me therefore repeat that warning you received. For a Sikh, the accumulated wisdom of all the spiritual masters over centuries is not equivalent to the wisdom found in the pages of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. If you argue otherwise you are not understanding a basic tenet of Sikhism. And if you offer your own view as a more intelligent and useful, you are violating our TOS by proselytizing for a "mat" of your own. So be warned.

Ambarsaria · #21 (**permalink**) 07-Jan-2011, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgtkhalsa

findingmyway,
It is not true that the ‘instructions’ for meditation ‘are right there.’ The instructions of how to meditate are not to be found in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or any other sacred Sikh text. This is because meditation has only been taught non-verbally by Enlightened Masters including our Sikh Gurus. Usually only one disciple learns to meditate in the lifetime of any Master, and then that disciple is crowned the next Master. In the case of the Sikh Gurus there were occasions where more than one student learned. Bhai Gurdas had learned but was never proclaimed as Guru, and Guru Hargobind was able to teach two of his sons that both became Guru. Baba Siri Chand also learned to meditate but did not learn to meditate on the Naam until he met Guru Ram Das.
The ideal of the Khalsa is that many will learn to meditate on the Naam and it will transform humanity and human society. This has clearly not happened yet. Most Sikhs do not even show interest in learning meditation. Everything short of learning to truly meditate on the Naam is a distraction from the real goal.

jgtkhalsa ji, I excerpt the following from your post in red and my comments follow,

Most Sikhs do not even show interest in learning meditation.

Most sikhs if not all sikhs show interest in learning.

Learning meditation is just one part of learning. Others include,
Learning to work

Learning to share

Learning to raise family

Learning to fight against injustice

Learning martial arts as in sant-sipahi being the image of a sikh

and many more, ....

A practical lifestyle of kirat-kamai and vand ke shakna was given equal if not more importance in sikhism

Sikhism is not yogism
As a matter of fact Yogi's with Body modifications like with earings, nose rings, bhibuti (ashes on their body), etc., and claims like the following are called bhatakday (wanderers) with little credibility attached,
Special powers

Contorted body movements

Control of destiny

Telling the future

Everything short of learning to truly meditate on the Naam is a distraction from the real goal.

I am sorry but for sikhs the Gurus have taught and established Sikhism with pretty self challenging and continuously self betterment goals

Please describe your qualifications to set the single goal that you speak of regarding "meditation on Naam" and ignore even more complete lifestyle goals that sikhs find in Gurus writings and teachings.

As findingmyway stated we can kind of surmize your agenda regarding Kundalini yoga and yogism but perhaps it will fit better under other religions or cults.

A suggestion to the moderators if we want to open a new forum for Yogis and cults, etc.

Sat Sri Akal.

BhagatSingh · #22 (**permalink**) 07-Jan-2011, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgtkhalsa

findingmyway,
It is not true that the ‘instructions’ for meditation ‘are right there.’ The instructions of how to meditate are not to be found in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or any other sacred Sikh text.

Jgt Khalsa ji, You have given nothing but your wisdom on this thread. But i think your mention of Kundalini Yoga may have distracted other members from it. Lol
Anyways, let's see how their disagreement with you goes on.

I agree with most things you said. One of the things I disagree with is this quoted above.
There are techniques given in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji on how to meditate. On page 8:

ਜਤੁ ਪਾਹਾਰਾ ਧੀਰਜੁ ਸੁਨਿਆਰੁ ॥
जतु पाहारा धीरजु सुनिआरु ॥
Jaṯ pāhārā ḏẖīraj suni▫ār.
Let self-control be the furnace, and patience the goldsmith.

ਅਹਰਣਿ ਮਤਿ ਵੇਦੁ ਹਥੀਆਰੁ ॥
अहरणि मति वेदु हथीआरु ॥
Ahraṇ maṯ veḏ hathī▫ār.
Let understanding be the anvil, and spiritual wisdom the tools.

ਭਉ ਖਲਾ ਅਗਨਿ ਤਪ ਤਾਉ ॥
भउ खला अगनि तप ताउ ॥
Bẖa▫o kẖalā agan ṯap ṯā▫o.
With the Fear of God as the bellows, fan the flames of tapa, the body's inner heat.

ਭਾਂਡਾ ਭਾਉ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਤਿਤੁ ਢਾਲਿ ॥
भांडा भाउ अम्रितु तितु ढालि ॥
Bẖāŉdā bẖā▫o amriṯ ṯiṯ dẖāl.
In the crucible of love, melt the Nectar of the Name,

ਘੜੀਐ ਸਬਦੁ ਸਚੀ ਟਕਸਾਲ ॥
घड़ीऐ सबदु सची टकसाल ॥
Gẖaṛī▫ai sabaḏ sacẖī taksāl.
and mint the True Coin of the Shabad, the Word of God.

ਜਿਨ ਕਉ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰਮੁ ਤਿਨ ਕਾਰ ॥
जिन कउ नदरि करमु तिन कार ॥
Jin ka▫o naḏar karam ṯin kār.
Such is the karma of those upon whom He has cast His Glance of Grace.

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਦਰੀ ਨਦਰਿ ਨਿਹਾਲ ॥੩੮॥
नानक नदरी नदरि निहाल ॥३८॥
Nānak naḏrī naḏar nihāl. ||38||
O Nanak, the Merciful Lord, by His Grace, uplifts and exalts them. ||38||

On page 49 Guru Arjan Dev ji says:
ਰਸਨਾ ਸਚਾ ਸਿਮਰੀਐ ਮਨੁ ਤਨੁ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
रसना सचा सिमरीऐ मनु तनु निरमलु होइ ॥
Rasnā sacẖā simrī▫ai man ṯan nirmal ho▫e.
With your tongue, repeat the True Name, and your mind and body shall become pure.

From this shabad on page 18, http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gur...18&L=17&id=775, we find the following:
ਧਾਤੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਫੁਨਿ ਧਾਤੁ ਕਉ ਸਿਫਤੀ ਸਿਫਤਿ ਸਮਾਇ ॥
धातु मिलै फुनि धातु कउ सिफती सिफति समाइ ॥
Ḏẖāṯ milai fun ḏẖāṯ ka▫o sifṯī sifaṯ samā▫e.
As metal merges with metal, those who chant the Praises of the Lord are absorbed into the Praiseworthy Lord.
ਲਾਲੁ ਗੁਲਾਲੁ ਗਹਬਰਾ ਸਚਾ ਰੰਗੁ ਚੜਾਉ ॥
लालु गुलालु गहबरा सचा रंगु चड़ाउ ॥
Lāl gulāl gahbarā sacẖā rang cẖaṛā▫o.
Like the poppies, they are dyed in the deep crimson color of Truthfulness.
ਸਚੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਸੰਤੋਖੀਆ ਹਰਿ ਜਪਿ ਏਕੈ ਭਾਇ ॥੧॥
सचु मिलै संतोखीआ हरि जपि एकै भाइ ॥१॥
Sacẖ milai sanṯokẖī▫ā har jap ekai bẖā▫e. ||1||
Those contented souls who meditate on the Lord with single-minded love, meet the True Lord. ||1||

I could go on actually... there are a wealth of shabads that explain how to meditate but I think i captured the gist of it with these.
Perhaps, kundalini yog is not necessary for a Sikh. I don't advocate for or against it, but that is not the method of meditation prescribed in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. If there is any yog prescribed in bani, its Bhagati Yog. Guru Arjan Dev ji mentions Raj Yog several times. But there is no mention of Kundalini yog.

findingmyway · #23 (**permalink**) 07-Jan-2011, 05:49 AM

Ang 33

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ॥
sireeraag mehalaa 3 ||

ਕਾਂਇਆ ਸਾਧੈ ਉਰਧ ਤਪੁ ਕਰੈ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਹਉਮੈ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
kaaneiaa saadhhai ouradhh thap karai vichahu houmai n jaae ||
You may torment your body with extremes of self-discipline, practice intensive meditation and hang upside-down, but your ego will not be eliminated from within.

ਅਧਿਆਤਮ ਕਰਮ ਜੇ ਕਰੇ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਕਬ ਹੀ ਪਾਇ ॥
adhhiaatham karam jae karae naam n kab hee paae ||
You may perform religious rituals, and still never obtain the Naam.

ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਜੀਵਤੁ ਮਰੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਸੈ ਮਨਿ ਆਇ ॥੧॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8672
gur kai sabadh jeevath marai har naam vasai man aae ||1||
Through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, resists temptation while living in the world, Naam will constantly dwell within that person's mind. ||1||

ਸੁਣਿ ਮਨ ਮੇਰੇ ਭਜੁ ਸਤਗੁਰ ਸਰਣਾ ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8672
sun man maerae bhaj sathagur saranaa ||
Listen, O my mind: hurry to the Protection of the Guru's Sanctuary.

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਛੁਟੀਐ ਬਿਖੁ ਭਵਜਲੁ ਸਬਦਿ ਗੁਰ ਤਰਣਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
gur parasaadhee shhutteeai bikh bhavajal sabadh gur tharanaa ||1|| rehaao ||
By Guru's Grace you shall be saved. Through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, you shall cross over the terrifying world-ocean. ||1||Pause||

ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਸਭਾ ਧਾਤੁ ਹੈ ਦੂਜਾ ਭਾਉ ਵਿਕਾਰੁ ॥
thrai gun sabhaa dhhaath hai dhoojaa bhaao vikaar ||
Accepting the three qualities of Maya (temptation) is due to its influence. The love of duality is corrupting.

ਪੰਡਿਤੁ ਪੜੈ ਬੰਧਨ ਮੋਹ ਬਾਧਾ ਨਹ ਬੂਝੈ ਬਿਖਿਆ ਪਿਆਰਿ ॥
panddith parrai bandhhan moh baadhhaa neh boojhai bikhiaa piaar ||
The Pandits, the religious scholars, read the scriptures, but they are trapped in the bondage of emotional attachment. In love with evil, they do not understand which is the right way.

ਸਤਗੁਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਤ੍ਰਿਕੁਟੀ ਛੂਟੈ ਚਉਥੈ ਪਦਿ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਦੁਆਰੁ ॥੨॥
sathagur miliai thrikuttee shhoottai chouthhai padh mukath dhuaar ||2||
Meeting the Guru, the bondage of the three qualities is cut away, and the Door of Liberation is opened. ||2||

ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਮਾਰਗੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਚੂਕੈ ਮੋਹੁ ਗੁਬਾਰੁ ॥
gur thae maarag paaeeai chookai mohu gubaar ||
Through the Guru, the Path is found, and the darkness of emotional attachment is dispelled.

ਸਬਦਿ ਮਰੈ ਤਾ ਉਧਰੈ ਪਾਏ ਮੋਖ ਦੁਆਰੁ ॥
sabadh marai thaa oudhharai paaeae mokh dhuaar ||
If one connects to the Shabad, then that person escapes from the clutches of maya and opens the door of liberation.

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਮਿਲਿ ਰਹੈ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾਰੁ ॥੩॥
gur parasaadhee mil rehai sach naam karathaar ||3||
By Guru's Grace, one remains attuned with the True Creator, naam. ||3||

ਇਹੁ ਮਨੂਆ ਅਤਿ ਸਬਲ ਹੈ ਛਡੇ ਨ ਕਿਤੈ ਉਪਾਇ ॥
eihu manooaa ath sabal hai shhaddae n kithai oupaae ||
This mind is very powerful; we cannot escape it without the means of some support (the Guru-Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ).

ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ਦੁਖੁ ਲਾਇਦਾ ਬਹੁਤੀ ਦੇਇ ਸਜਾਇ ॥
dhoojai bhaae dhukh laaeidhaa bahuthee dhaee sajaae ||
The love of duality causes people to suffer in pain.

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮਿ ਲਗੇ ਸੇ ਉਬਰੇ ਹਉਮੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਗਵਾਇ ॥੪॥੧੮॥੫੧॥
naanak naam lagae sae oubarae houmai sabadh gavaae ||4||18||51||
O Nanak, those who are attached to the Naam are saved; through the Shabad, their ego is banished and they connect to the Naam. ||4||18||51||

This shabad makes it clear that more than meditation, connecting with the ShabadGuru is what attaches us to the Naam. Therefore, when put into context meditation is the reading, contemplating and following of Shabad Guru. Those who are attached to rituals or the traditional form of mediation alone can get lost with ego and attachment to those methods.

spnadmin · #24 (**permalink**) 07-Jan-2011, 05:59 AM

Bhagat Singh ji

No one was misled by the reference to kundalini yoga. No one has been that superficial so far.

Problems arise - forgive me for repeating myself - when we are not specific about the meanings we take for words. What was Guru Arjan Dev saying when he spoke "perfect is ..." He was not advocating yoga in the ordinary way that we use the term, a system of meditation and exercise, to attain spiritual, mental and physical perfection. Here is what Guru Arjan Dev says. The rhao line is explained by lines that precede it.

ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥

gourree mehalaa 5 ||

ਜੋ ਇਸੁ ਮਾਰੇ ਸੋਈ ਸੂਰਾ ॥
jo eis maarae soee sooraa ||
One who kills this is a spiritual hero.

ਜੋ ਇਸੁ ਮਾਰੇ ਸੋਈ ਪੂਰਾ ॥
jo eis maarae soee pooraa ||
One who kills this is perfect.

ਜੋ ਇਸੁ ਮਾਰੇ ਤਿਸਹਿ ਵਡਿਆਈ ॥
jo eis maarae thisehi vaddiaaee ||
One who kills this obtains glorious greatness.

ਜੋ ਇਸੁ ਮਾਰੇ ਤਿਸ ਕਾ ਦੁਖੁ ਜਾਈ ॥੧॥
jo eis maarae this kaa dhukh jaaee ||1||
One who kills this is freed of suffering. ||1||
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8672

ਐਸਾ ਕੋਇ ਜਿ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਮਾਰਿ ਗਵਾਵੈ
aisaa koe j dhubidhhaa maar gavaavai ||
How rare is such a person, who kills and casts off duality.

ਇਸਹਿ ਮਾਰਿ ਰਾਜ ਜੋਗੁ ਕਮਾਵੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
eisehi maar raaj jog kamaavai ||1|| rehaao ||
Killing it, he attains Raja Yoga, the Yoga of meditation and success. ||1||Pause||

Guru ji is not prescribing any asana here or recommending the practice of Raj Yoga. Guruji is saying that Raj Yoga is a state obtained by preparing the mind to cast off duality and be merged with Naam.

ਜੋ ਇਸੁ ਮਾਰੇ ਤਿਸ ਕਉ ਭਉ ਨਾਹਿ ॥
jo eis maarae this ko bho naahi ||
One who kills this has no fear.

ਜੋ ਇਸੁ ਮਾਰੇ ਸੁ ਨਾਮਿ ਸਮਾਹਿ ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8672
jo eis maarae s naam samaahi ||
One who kills this is absorbed in the Naam.

Long shabad, so I have ended it before the conclusion. But Raj Yoga in Guru Granth Sahib is not the practice of "yoga." In losing the self in the love of the shabad, loosing the ego, loosing duality, one moves to the next step - Raj Yoga. Keep in mind that the usage of "yoga" in gurbani is in terms of the core concept of "joining" "union" two English words which have the same root as "jog."

It would be worth it to do a vichaar of this word alone, "jog."

BhagatSingh · #25 (**permalink**) 07-Jan-2011, 06:44 AM

The essence of all yogs is as Guru Arjan Dev ji points out. They use different techniques to get there. Yog is a discipline to reach union with God, which is seeing unity among things/casting off duality. There are different disciplines which have their own techniques to get to that level of psyche, where you don't see distinctions, where you don't see a friend or an enemy. One of the techniques in the Bhagati Discipline is the repitition of Naam.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8672
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8672
In other passages, Guru Sahib does advocate for the practice of Raja Yog. When this shabad mentions "attaining Raj Yog". It actually means succeeding in Raj Yog. When we train the mind, we can successfully meditate for long periods of time (even 24/7 or 8 peher aradhna). This is one measure of success in meditation.
And yes, yog is not about asans, rather it is about training the mind, so that it learns to see in a non-dual way. This is another measure of success in meditation.

EDIT: I don't think his mention of kundalini yog misled anyone. Even upon a second reading, I did see a lack of/failure of attempt to understand the other before responding. And it may have been because jgtKahlsa ji mentioned kundalini yog. People see things in a associated manner. Once some one mentions something controversial, our critical eyes are activated at max level and we lose the ability to understand their points.

spnadmin · #26 (**permalink**) 07-Jan-2011, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BhagatSingh

EDIT: I don't think his mention of kundalini yog misled anyone. Even upon a second reading, I did see a lack of/failure of attempt to understand the other before responding. And it may have been because jgtKahlsa ji mentioned kundalini yog. People see things in a associated manner. Once some one mentions something controversial, our critical eyes are activated at max level and we lose the ability to understand their points.

Bhagat Singh ji

Thank you for sharing. Please discuss issues, instead of imagined mind states of other forum members.

findingmyway · #27 (**permalink**) 07-Jan-2011, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BhagatSingh

In other passages, Guru Sahib does advocate for the practice of Raja Yog. When this shabad mentions "attaining Raj Yog". It actually means succeeding in Raj Yog. When we train the mind, we can successfully meditate for long periods of time (even 24/7 or 8 peher aradhna). This is one measure of success in meditation.
And yes, yog is not about asans, rather it is about training the mind, so that it learns to see in a non-dual way. This is another measure of success in meditation.

As you say Raj Yoga is about controlling the mind to free yourself from maya. The references in Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ could be relating to the concept rather than the actual process. I could only find 2 references in Gurbani, one discussed above. The other is on page 211.
ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
Gauree, Fifth Mehl:

ਰਸਨਾ ਜਪੀਐ ਏਕੁ ਨਾਮ ॥ rasanaa japeeai eaek naam ||
ਈਹਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਆਨੰਦੁ ਘਨਾ ਆਗੈ ਜੀਅ ਕੈ ਸੰਗਿ ਕਾਮ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
eehaa sukh aanandh ghanaa aagai jeea kai sang kaam ||1|| rehaao ||
With your tongue, chant the Name of the One Lord. In this world, it shall bring you peace, comfort and great joy. ||1||Pause||

Now we know that Waheguru has many names and the whole of Gurbani is describing Waheguru so Naam is more than one word

ਕਟੀਐ ਤੇਰਾ ਅਹੰ ਰੋਗੁ ॥ katteeai thaeraa ahan rog ||
The disease of your ego shall be eradicated.
ਤੂੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਕਰਿ ਰਾਜ ਜੋਗੁ ॥੧॥
thoon gur prasaadh kar raaj jog ||1||
By Guru's Grace, you will find peace and connect with Waheguru||1||

ਹਰਿ ਰਸੁ ਜਿਨਿ ਜਨਿ ਚਾਖਿਆ ॥ har ras jin jan chaakhiaa ||
ਤਾ ਕੀ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਲਾਥੀਆ ॥੨॥ thaa kee thrisanaa laathheeaa ||2||
Those who taste the sublime essence of the Lord have their thirst quenched. ||2||

ਹਰਿ ਬਿਸ੍ਰਾਮ ਨਿਧਿ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ har bisraam nidhh paaeiaa ||
ਸੋ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਨ ਕਤ ਹੀ ਧਾਇਆ ॥੩॥ so bahur n kath hee dhhaaeiaa ||3||
Those who have found the Lord, the Treasure of peace, shall not go anywhere else again. ||3||

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਾ ਕਉ ਗੁਰਿ ਦੀਆ ॥ har har naam jaa ko gur dheeaa ||
ਨਾਨਕ ਤਾ ਕਾ ਭਉ ਗਇਆ ॥੪॥੮॥੧੪੬॥ naanak thaa kaa bho gaeiaa ||4||8||146||Those who have understood Naam from the Guru - O Nanak, their fears are removed. ||4||8||146||

The process of Raj Yoga includes ahimsa (non-violence) and sexual abstinence among other things which are not in line with Gurbani so I think the references to raj yoga refer to the concept rather than the process.