Idolatry of SGGS

Hello,

I apologise in advance if this post is offensive to anyone. It is a delicate question that has been bugging me for many months. Please know that I ask it with genuine curiosity and I mean no disrespect. Please correct any of my misunderstandings.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/9104-idolatry-of-sggs.html

That said...

It is my understanding that the Sikh scripture, Sri Guru Granth Sahib is supposed to be the Guru of the Panth as "decreed" by Guru Gobind Singh Ji, along with the Khalsa. "Authority" was passed to the scripture and the body of initiated Sikhs.

The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji has got to be (in my humber opinion) the greatest text on the face of the earth, there's no doubt about that. I'm sure many of you would agree. It is the bani of the Gurus and their close friends. It is as close to the audible word of God Itself that us mortals will ever get.

It should be shown the utmost respect. It is sacred. And I'm cool with that.

What confuses me though is treating the scripture as a living human being. Isn't this making an idol of (to put it frankly) a book? A wonderful, inspired, sacred book?

Bowing before the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji I understand, it is showing respect, humility, reverence for the ideals contained therein. Giving the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji the central place in the Gurdwara I understand. Fanning it I understand. Placing it upon a soft surface I understand.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=9104

What I don't understand is why it needs it's own bed. Why it needs it's own seat on a plane. Why it seems to be treated like a person.

Why is it not sufficient to cover it with a cloth on it's altar (sorry I've forgotten the proper name of the throne in the Gurdwara that the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is places) when not being read? Or even having a bench to store it in another room if necessary, even on a cussion and covered on said bench.

Isn't putting it to bed at night one step away from feeding it milk with a spoon?

I thought the Guru's discouraged idolatry amongst the Sikhs? And yet now Sikhs seem to be making an idol. Is this a throwback to Hinduism, a reluctance to let go of that ritualism from the majority religion in India?

Thank you for your views, and again sorry if I have caused offence.

Ishna.

 
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Dear Ishna .


You have touched very relevant Question .

I think it has been disscused in parts already on the forum but Still I need to be dealt again in detail and you have provided a chance here .

I will give some reason as I understand according to my current Understanding :


1. Considering Sri Guru Granth Sahib as Physiacl Guru and the explanation that need of sikh as Physical Guru does not hold good in light of sikh philosophy , Shabd guru already had its due importance and reverance even before Guru Gobind Singh JI Gave Guruship to Granth Ji.
So follower of Sikh Philosophy and having Good understanding of it with God,s grace does not leave any place for search of physical Guru in any form ( Person /Book).

2. About the humanification of Granth Ji . It might have many aspect but I understand to important aspect one political and other spirtual .

Politically in India Supreme Court now recognize Guru Granth Sahib as Person so prperties could be bought in legal terms in name of Guru Ji . and It I believe helped solve the corruption surrounding the GUrdwara properties and other related religious property belonging to sikh Community .

Spirtually as you precisely asked about putting Guru Ji to bed at night seems odd on first look and I also felt the same at some time in my life but then I got the answer ( may be )

For some people ( Saints ) who were too devoted to Gurbani and the source of it Guru Granth Ji and were so Thankful to the Gurbani for the Miracle it had done in their life that they developed great reverence for the Guru grath ji in book form as it was the only available form ( now even pdf file can be Guru Granth Sahib ).
BUT this was very personal relation of that particular individual with Divinity of Gurbani and so the love for the Granth Ji . But there are always people like me around such SAINTS/SPIRTUAL PEOPLE who at the best just remain the spectator of all this relatiom of divinity and love , So they just learn the trick / Ritual and rest remain the mystery until God shower grace on them .

I know that some people would not tend to agree but still I would mention that as said by many that some Saints like Baba Nand Singh Ji had so much devotion for Granth JI that they can get the Vision of All the Guru in the Granth ji and so was their respect and reverence to the Granth Ji

So in short it is not black and white of thing . So when people do such thing in Gurudwaras like Respecting Guru Granth Sahib Ji in Gurdwara imigyt mean Nothing or Just a ritual They have learnt over Time . BUT on the other hand it could be the real devotion and experience going on and every thing could be for real so I dont mind that and try not be Judgemental .
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=9104
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=9104
In other words :

Everything you do in Gurdwara could be a ritual until you know/Experience SAT/GOD/AKAL and if you really happen to experience God everything becomes for REAL



Any way these were my view and could be wrong but I am trying to learn


Jatinder Singh

This is a very good question by Ishna ji. Thanks for putting this on forum. drkhalsa has replied in a beautiful way. I look forward to more responses by our learned members about this.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=9104

Regards, Arvind.

i totaly agree with ishna ji.instead of learning from guru granth sahib
we have just made it idol.some members of my family are highly religious
but they don't know what is written in guru granth sahib.when i got my dsl internet connection i learned what is written in guru granth sahib
sikhs don't even know what is written in guru granth sahib majority of them are treating guru granth sahib as idol.

all that care..........how about we know whats inside the Gurbani?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=9104
isnt that being equal?

Ishna ji
You brave soul! I am glad that you brought your honest questions to forum. I often wonder the same things and notice the disparity between Sikh principles and Sikh customs. I always remind myself that Gurbani (Word of God) is truth, but people interpret it in whatever flavour they have preference and capacity for. No worries, we’re all learning under Waheguru, the Wondrous Teacher.

Dr Khalsa ji,
I truly appreciate and enjoyed your discourse on the subject of idolatry. I just posted to a similar matter and thought I would ask you to examine my understanding of why idolatry is rejected. Please comment on these paragraphs:

We recognize Ik Onkar – the One Universal Creator God, Beyond Birth and Self-Existent. To be all this, Ik Onkar’s whole state must be formless and timeless. Anything that is created and has form has the potential of being misused as an idol. Idolatry is excessive reverence toward the objects of faith, whether living created beings or images of created beings.

The difference between idol worship and worshipping Ik Onkar by focussing attention on an object of faith is a matter of where we attribute reverence. Is it the object that we revere, or is the object a focal point for those who cannot comfortably comprehend the One Who Is All? Not everyone’s mind can contemplate or develop communion with an infinite, formless Creator Being and they need a small chunk. That’s why almost all religions ‘package’ God in some kind of form. And most of us still need gurus and prophets because we haven’t evolved consciousness enough to commune or even acknowledge that such is possible. However, science and philosophy has made a lot of progress defining ‘collective consciousness’, so we are now affirming that we are of the same Mind.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=9104
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=9104

Thank you both.

Sat Sri Akal,
t

Ik-Jivan Ji,

It would be good to see Dr Khalsa respond to your query but he hasn't been around for quite sometime. This is a very old thread. But let me share with you some similar thought process which run in my mind right now.

The hubble telescope has revealed the galactic center and other spiral galaxies in quite astonishing pics. So science is helping us understand God. It wouldn't be wrong to assume that the galactic center which gives birth of millions of star systems be considered as the Sargun God for the time being. I often term it as my "Radiant Master" because I have not yet correctly been able to see a universe center which gives birth to all these galaxies, then the galactic center, for the time being, is my True Guru.

Please comment. Even criticisms are welcomed.

Namjap ji,
Wow! I hadn’t noticed how old this thread is. Thank you for pointing that out and for replying with a great concept for vichar.

True, science is helping us understand God. In fact, much of my understanding about the One Universal Creator Being has come through vichar of the universe, so you have really brought a topic that I enjoy. Thank you!

Consider, our solar system is just a tiny speck some 26,000 light-years away from the blackhole at the centre of the Milkyway Galaxy. It takes 26,000 years of processional movement to circle the core and come around again to where we roughly are right now, give or take a little drift toward the centre. At this very moment, we are almost at the galactic equator and will be shortly, marking a full pass around our spiral galaxy.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=9104

Right there we see the exquisite precision of our galaxy in the procession. At the end/beginning of a 26,000-year cycle we find ourselves at the exact middle of the galactic equator and exactly 26,000 light-years away from the blackhole at the centre of it.

To help the imagination, we can think of the galaxy as a cream cheese bagel. The hole in the middle is the blackhole and where the two halves are stuck together with cream cheese, that’s the galactic equator. We are now equidistant from top and bottom half of the bagel, on the equator of the galaxy and right at the very outside edge of the bagel, 26,000 light-years away from the blackhole at the centre of the Milkyway Galaxy. This, to me is the impeccable design and craftsmanship of the Master Architect of the Universe, the Beloved of All and the Giver of All.

Contemplating the blackhole, we also have opportunity to consider Ayam – the process of creation and annihilation. The blackhole or galactic centre both creates and annihilates matter. The closer a body gets to the blackhole, the greater its density. I have wondered if this can be translated into the Dharmic Bull allegory. We know that when the Bull stands on one leg, enlightenment is low. I wonder if our passage through space within our galaxy mirrors the state of consciousness and morality or perhaps visa versa. What do you think?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=9104

Yes. The galaxy is the Sargun of God. So too is the atom. So too are you and me, the oceans and the desert sands, the leaves and the stones, the golden, jewel-encrusted chalice and the plastic drinking cup. Everything and anything, from the sublime to the profane is the exquisite craftsmanship of the One Universal Creator Being, if we are graced by Gurparsad to see it as such. Waheguru, the Wondrous Teacher opens our eyes to see such things when we are ready. His flashes of inspired thought can arise even under the most mundane circumstances.

All this diversity of being is the creative expression of the One, whose being we are only beginning to fathom. We, in our current state of consciousness evolution can perceive only His Lotus Feet, His Charan at most. Even those who need to hold an object of faith to grasp the Formless One are not to be criticised. As Guru Gobind Singh ji said to Aurangzeb, ‘No one is an infidel save one who denies His presence’.

I think anyone could use this exercise to help the realisation of the formless Creator Being along. . . imagine a sphere as big as you can, with all the known world in it. Now contemplate, what is outside that sphere? You may need to imagine more space and an even bigger sphere contains the first one. What is beyond this bigger sphere? Repeat the imagination until your mind relinquishes the idea that space has limits and is ready to accept that infinity is the reality. . . we – every particle of matter, every waveform from thought or motion – are part of that infinite reality. : )

Have you too been inspired to think such things? Does you heart dance when you contemplate the Sargun of the Radiant Master? Who do you think feels that joy within your heart? _/\_


Sat Sri Akal,
t

SS AKAL JI

All our answers to our weirdo questionnaires are found in Jap Ji sahib ji including with all references about God which no one has born yet or even Vedas to explain HIS existence including GURU NANAK DEV JI.

We all have been blessed with how truly we can follow all the principals and guidance's to live in harmony and to pass life journey by remembering our Creator which will motivate us to all what is mentioned in Jap Ji Sahib Ji.

Idolatry was eliminated from Sikh's way of living by believing EK Onkar which is omnipresent not living in temples or statues of any kinds.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=9104

Since all of us evolved from Hinduism and most of time we lived under great supervision which give us urge to worship any object or hold to some thing to accept the pain to comfort our selves which might have not worked but it made our suffering bit easier to pass through.

Some who happened to have rewards in trusting some object became a piece of Idol who can save peoples life.

It is human nature some time to keep his loved one's pictures in his possession all the time because of love or respect .So what is the dofference if one can keep a pictures of any Guru in his possession with reverence.

What Guru Nanak Dev Ji blessed us with Jap JI sahib to read and make us to appreciate the God than searching HIM in jungles or mountains or go crazy to see HIM (DARSHAN KARNA) and spend all your life to find HIM knowing more about HIM.

NAM JAPO and follow all what Guru Nanak Dev JI's philosophy preaches us.

Every thing man has has invented so far was already existing and created by Almighty . It is a matter of improvement in our lives to live or to understand our environments at earth or in universe for more knowledge is human ZEAL and invented what already existed.

But the society as a whole did not implemented the basic principals of living in harmony but still practicing the most destructive practices after suffering since the creations of cast systems and other idol worshiping to the extent where humans live were sacrificed to please STATUE OF MANY GOD.

Now it is time at least Sikh community wake up to realize the reality to make our faiths universally understood by practicing basic principals with attitude to practice what we preach.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=9104

-The first is truthfulness, second the honest earning and third charity in God’s name. The fourth is pure intent and mind, and the fifth is the Lord’s admiration and praise.”

-No to rituals, idolatry and the rigidity of the caste system.

Jaspi