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Originally Posted by ISDhillon |
Some RANDOM thoughts by different people with whom I AGREE with are reproduced below.... But the Final Take is that this DERA is GHOR MANMATT and ANTI-SIKH, ANTI Sikh Rehat maryada on all counts.
1.There is no doubt that there are spirit possessions that take place.
But I don't think anyone going to this Dera is going to get any relief. Just by looking at it through video, it struck me that someone might get possessed by going but not be relieved.
The manmat of tying random cloths, baloons and even buckets to the Nishan Sahib is shocking. The old Babas and Bibis doing giddha and bhangra while chanting "Jai Babe Di" is also disturbing.
If someone is having troubles like this, the best solution is to get peshed an amrit sinchaar held by rehitvan Gursikhs. A Singh who did seva in an amrit sinchar where he saw things like this said that it is important to tie a dastaar and that makes a big difference.
2.This dera should by boycotted by all Sikhs. Even if Baba Vadbhag Singh was a Gursikh, the dera under his name is not a place for Gursikhs at all.
you can "understand sikhism on a deep level" as you wrote, but on this deep level, does it become acceptable for men to dress as women and dance the jago singing "Jai Babe Di!!"?
3.Does tying ballons and buckets to a nishan sahib also become acceptable when you understand Sikhism on a deep level?
Hanging pictures of Durga and Shiva must also be acceptable on the "deep level".
That Dera is manmat. Period.
4. ISDhillion jee, with all due respect i have also witnessed happenings at such deras, and I found it to be total Manmat.
IMHO, this is a very low level of cure, and more than anything it takes away peoples faith in Guru Sahib.
Maharaj Dhan Guru Granth Sahib jee and Naam is the ultimate cure, far higher than such babas and their deras.
Furthermore ISDhillion jee you state the following:
"...no disrespect I respect your rights to believe in this Bhai sahib but I only believe in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Khalsa."
Yet you still beleive in this dera. Forgive me, but in my opinion this is rather condradictory dont you think?
Whether you believe in Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Jee is irrelevant, His kamaai speaks for itself, through his jeevan and literature. People dont need to make videos to promote the sacrifices he made for the panth.
This is NOT Sikhi or Gurmatt...at any "level"..deep or shallow. It is all AANDH VISHWAAS..a throw back to the DARK AGES....witch hunts Friday 13th black magic etc etc.
IN MALAYSIA..too there is such a place.( private Gurdwara to take out bhoots)......but more interesting than that a KHALSA JI who was a Sikh Missionary tried a new experiment some years abck whereby he CUT the KESH of a supposedly possessed SIKH LADY, right in front of GURU GRANTH JI SAHIB in the Darbar...to CURE her of Possession... This "KHALSA JI" was BANNED from major Gurdwara Stages ( kirtan sewa)..he also peshed in front of Panj Piayarae and submitted his guilt. Only years later when people have forgotten his'foray into the world of baba wadbhag singh"...is he now accepted back as a kirtaniya kathakaar..
NOTHING is above GURBANI..the SAT NAAM...WAHEGURU. No Sikh should ever fall for this type of bull.
1. They have a Samadh of the Baba..totally agaisnt Rehat maryada and GURBANI which says NO praying at smadahs marrhis massanis..
2. They have objects tied to nishan Sahib for fulfillment of wishes..Totally agaisnt Gurbani and Gurmatt - plus insult to Nishan of Guru ji.
3 They have totally MONAS doing Kachi bani...
4. They have so called amritdharee singhs wearing female clothes and dancing wildly..what a parody of SINGHS
5 They have a manmatt of Panja on panjiri parshaad....no such thing ever happens - total lie to mislead the snagat
6 The Producers of the Video are all NON-SIKHS...and the vidfeo makes out as IF this Dera is greater than Darbar sahib Amrtisar
7. The make beleive pictures paintings of wadbhag singh painted to look exactly like GURU ARJUN Ji's paintings..
8 Guru Ji totally REJECTED blood relations..Sodhi has no suignificance at all
9 They have people swinging hair Nangeh Sir inside the Gurdwara...agaisn Manmatt and total disregard to Sanctity of Guru Ji
10 The "interviews" and "possession" are all obviously staged fakes
11. One of the babas (Ram singh) has his dharra TIED up..and looks like a clerk rather than holy man
12 and the thing about Ladies and Men bathing together to "clean the mann's mail" is fraud...in Darbar sahib and other Sikh gurdwaras there are separate enclosures for ladies..mann dee mall is not cleansed by bathing together ( MK Gandhi used to sleep naked with his daughters/associates to PROVE his mann was clean..and he could control his sex drive )
Lots of other Manmatt and anti Gurmatt...stay away from this place.
I saw a Discovery Documentary about the witches of Jhaar Khand....veirdly SIMILAR to what is going on in this DERA...same hair waving, wild screams, ONLY Difference is that in the Documentary it hapopens in HINDU MANDIR with Mata Ji Sheran wali and hindu priests..here the people are look alike Sikhs..but same bahjans and kachi bani kavitas and geets etc..
Why cant we just beleive in the Dera of Baba Nanak instead of the Dera of Baba Vadbhaag Singh? There is no Dera higher than the Dera of Baba Nanak.
Another couple of things which I picked up from the Video that are totally wrong:
1. It say Baba Vadhbhag Singh took Amrit From Jassa Singh Ahluwalia. Amrit Cannot be given by any other than Panj Piaray.
2. They believe that the yoghurt they use to clean Nishan Sahib somehow becomes Amrit.
3. They take home kapra of the old Nishan Sahib to give to their children so they have No Fear. That only comes by Gurus kirpa and through Naam Japna
4. They tie things as offerings to the new Nishan Sahib, and make wishes? What is Ardas for?
Oh yeh and the chanting of "Jai Babay dee.." Whatever happened to Waheguru!!
I have just watched the video, and have come to the conlcusion that it has nothing to do with Sikhi. There was no mention of even Guru Granth or Guru Panth.
It is fine that he has his own dera, but is this what Satguru Nanak Dev Jee wanted the Khalsa to become?
You mention your mother was sick from being possesed etc, etc. Did you ever go to the Gurdwara and have the Granthee do ardaas and degh for her well being while she went through her time of need? Did you listen to the Hukumnamaa and try to follow it? Did you find a shabad that pierced your heart and recite it for her well being?
I have been through very similar circunstances as you, so don't get me wrong that I have no experience, for me this happened to both my parents.
But we constantly did ardaas and degh and seva and did Sehaj Paats, not from Gyanee's but on our own and my father survived from his death bed.
Did you present yourself infront of Panj Piara and beg for forgiveness for your bad deeds, which is why you were stuck in the problem in the first place and ask for Khandaa Amrit?
Did you do any of this before you went to that Deraa??? Why would you leave the present form of Guru Nanak in Guru Granth Sahib and run there.
They are calling him "Sachaa Patshaah", that is reserved for Satguru Nanak and the Guru's after Him upto only Guru Granth Sahib.
The video is right in saying that you have to go through a similar experience before you reaise that these things exist. BUT if you are a SIKH, he always turns to the Guru for help in all situations.
Guru in Banee says these things do exist, but the the real cure is Japjee Sahib. Did you sit down and recite it over and over and over again till things got better?Gurbanee is the real cure. Or were you looking for an easy way out of your problems, just go dance around have a cold bath and Kaboom we are fixed. You supposed to realize the Lord through your misfortunes not get attached to a "Kaam Dhen" Tree, which will be able to help you up to a certain point after which will have to say "I can't".
A true Sikh/Saadh/Sant/Baba will only attach you to Guru Granth Sahib and nowhere else. I do agree he does have powers to cure, but there is absoltly no one higher than the Lord Satguru Nanak.
in conclusion..
It is pretty clear that the entire Video is a PROPOGANDA FILM made to increase attendance at this Ghor Manmatt DERA.
Sikhee da is taran de ghor manmattee deraiyan nall door da we vaasta nahin hai. There is not even 0.001% SIKHI in the entrire video..and the 99.99% anti gurmatt total RUBBISH is clear to anyone who knows even an iota of Gurmatt or Gurbani.
Stay away from such places and such videos....they are meant for GHOSTS./RAKKSHAS.....not Guru Key Sikhs.
Jarnail Singh
Gyani
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