Heaven Hell and Sikhism

kds1980 · #1 (**permalink**) 06-Aug-2005, 06:38 AM

waheguru ji ka khalsa
waheguru ji ki fateh

i daily hear katha of late gyani sant singh ji maskeen
he several time mentioned that there is no heaven no hell.a person living with all the worldly pleasures is living in heaven .on the other hand a person born on street
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/5313-heaven-hell-and-sikhism.html
living on street sufferring from diseases is living in hell.so sikhism does not beleive in heaven or hell.both the places are on earth.

there is a debate about heaven and hell on the other sikh site . i posted the above matter but the other person said that sikhism do beleive in heaven
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5313
hell.so i want to know the views of intellectuals on this topic
bhul chuk maaf

Hukum Kaur · #2 (**permalink**) 06-Aug-2005, 11:09 AM

A person living in wordly pleasures can also be living in Hell. A person in poverty can be living in heaven. The two are our mind state, and if one is connected to God on this earth, they are in heaven and in bliss.
The reason heaven and hell are earthly characteristics, is because they are a duality. Truth is not a duality, it is a constant One that has no oppsite nor counter existance.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5313
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5313
Heaven and hell is on this earth
sometimes it seams hell reins, and then one wishes to leave the cycle of birth and death. However this life should be enjoyed for the guift it is.
I see people in darkness, in deniel of God, they are in hell.
I see Saints and the Holy and they cry in beauty. They are in Heaven.
Here we live in a Yin and Yang,

"Every day of living, is another day of dying"-Yogi Bhajan

S|kH · #3 (**permalink**) 06-Aug-2005, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liv Kaur

A person living in wordly pleasures can also be living in Hell. A person in poverty can be living in heaven. The two are our mind state, and if one is connected to God on this earth, they are in heaven and in bliss.
The reason heaven and hell are earthly characteristics, is because they are a duality. Truth is not a duality, it is a constant One that has no oppsite nor counter existance.
Heaven and hell is on this earth
sometimes it seams hell reins, and then one wishes to leave the cycle of birth and death. However this life should be enjoyed for the guift it is.
I see people in darkness, in deniel of God, they are in hell.
I see Saints and the Holy and they cry in beauty. They are in Heaven.
Here we live in a Yin and Yang,

"Every day of living, is another day of dying"-Yogi Bhajan

Perfectly stated, hope that answers the question for you

kds1980 · #4 (**permalink**) 06-Aug-2005, 20:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liv Kaur

A person living in wordly pleasures can also be living in Hell. A person in poverty can be living in heaven. The two are our mind state, and if one is connected to God on this earth, they are in heaven and in bliss.
The reason heaven and hell are earthly characteristics, is because they are a duality. Truth is not a duality, it is a constant One that has no oppsite nor counter existance.
Heaven and hell is on this earth
sometimes it seams hell reins, and then one wishes to leave the cycle of birth and death. However this life should be enjoyed for the guift it is.
I see people in darkness, in deniel of God, they are in hell.
I see Saints and the Holy and they cry in beauty. They are in Heaven.
Here we live in a Yin and Yang,

"Every day of living, is another day of dying"-Yogi Bhajan

waheguru ji ka khalsa
waheguru ji ki fateh

heaven and hell are state of mind but body also plays a role.if a person is suffering from the terrible body pains then how can he do simran.
this is my personal experience from the past 20 years i am suffering from severe disease and each and every day of my life is living hell.sometime for several days i am unable to do any simran.i daily pray to the god to give me
death or cure my disease.now in this situation how can you say that heaven and hell are state of mind.
bhul chuk maaf

Hukum Kaur · #5 (**permalink**) 07-Aug-2005, 16:31 PM

Very interesting that you bring up simran, I too have a question, we can ponder these for eachother.
My step sisiter has had a nervous breakdown and can hear voices in her head telling her that they will come for her family, her brother her father...every night and day.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5313
She saise they have implated a device sort of like a speaker in her and they want it back...
She is in constant Hell and fear. I taught her about simran and lent her many recordings of 22 minute Wahe Guru Wahe Jeo chants, she is trying.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5313
Her Hell is in her mind, because her mind has implanted something in her body...And sometimes I believe her story but refuse to be scarred, for fear is a downward spiral of darkness.
She has a very strong Heaven and a very strong Hell in her head at the same time, may God grant her the Grace to live in heaven..
Sat Naam

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #6 (**permalink**) 08-Aug-2005, 10:01 AM

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru JI KI fateh.

Gurbani says;; Paap punn warteh snasaraa..harkh sog dukh bharaa..
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5313

Paap - and Punn...Harkh ( happiness ) and SOG..(Sadness) are all Diseases when we are SEPARATED from WAHEGURU.

In Gurbani HELL is that one second when we FORGET WAHEGURU...and HEAVEN is that ONE SECOND when we REMEMBER HIM.

BOTH states are IN THIS WORLD. Gurbani doesnt BELIEVE in a separate Heaven or hell that exists somewhere else.

Now examples:

Didnt GURU ARJUN JI SAHIB feel any PAIn when his body was being BURNT on a sizzling hot plate, in the height of SUMMER with a Hot sun overhead..and Burning Hot sand being POURED on hsi HEAD by the ladle full ?? Next day Guru Ji was BOILED ALIVE in apot of boiling water. Only on the THIRD day when His BURNT body was forcibly dipped in the COLD water of the raavi did GURU JI depart for Sach khand..His Body was never Recovered. GURU JI sat calmly and repeated TERA BHANNA MEETHA LAGEH..meaning that GURU JI was in CONSTANT TOUCH with WAHEGURU..and thus IN HEAVEN...while to worldy eyes he was sittign on a HOT PLATE and being roasted alive.

Now somebody may just say..OH.. BUT that was GURU JI ?? We are Ordinary human beings..

It is ONLY in the HOUSE OF NANAK..that GURU and SIKH are EQUALS..AApeh Gur Chela... First was GURU NANAK JI..and then His CHELA Bhai lehna Ji became GURU.... First was GURU GOBINDSINGH JI..then His CHELA..the KHALSA became GURU..

LOOK at BHAI MATI DASS JI..being SAWN ALIVE.... the sweet sound of JAPJI SAHIB JI being recited out ALOUD is coming from BOTH SIDES of His BODY !! Bhai sahib is a SIKH...not a GURU.

Look at Bhai SATI DASS JI...wrapped in COTTON, soaked with Kerosene and set on FIRE....Japji Sahib is being recited out aloud instead of Cheekaan hai hai Pain ??
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5313

Bhai DYALA JI is put into a Huge POT of water and BOILED ALIVE... the Sound of japji sahib is ehard until it is all over...

Bhai MANI SINGH Ji has been ordered to be cut from JOINT to JOINT. When the Executioner tried to Do a "short cut" and cut his hand at the WRIST...Bhai mani Singh Ji pointed out to him..Your HUKM is to CUT JOINT by JOINT... so Please Begin with the THUMB..and CUT it into TWO parts...then the First finger...second finger..and so on...to wrist..to elbow..and so on. Bhai Sahib jee RECITED JAPJI SAHIB aloud till it was all over and His head was cut off.

ONE HUNDRED SIKHS...MATYRED DAILY fro SEVEN DAYS...Not a single CRY of PAIN...nor a SINGLE CONVERSION to ISLAM..

HUNDREDS of KOOKAS BLOWN UP in front of BRITISH CANNONS....a small boy snatches the helmet off the head of a British Officer and stands on the helmet to make himself reach HIGH ENOUGH so that the cannon ball wont MISS his HEAD...

EACH Page of SIKH History has many many such chilling Stories...not a single cry of PAIN suffering..blah blah blah... Until Post 1984... just read how the Singhs were BRUTALLY TORTURED in PUNJAB POLICE Custody...Burnt with hot irons, cut open and salt and chillies rubbed in, pierced with Hot rods, electrical currents passed through private parts, tongues pulled out, every bone smashed...NOT a SINGLE ONE "CONFESSED"..just NAAM JAPPING.... WAHEGURU heard..until the captors out of FURY took them outside..shot them dead and recorded " Shot in police Encounter !!!"

To an ordinary HUMAN..these people would look like they are in "HELL"..BUT in actual fact they were all in "HEAVEN"...that is why not a single cry of pain or scream escaped their lips..except Waheguru waheguru...

This si what we should all aim for...It si NOT an easy path...BUt it does EXIST and it is NOT an ILLUSION..it is REAL..all we got to do is FIND IT.

Jarnail Singh gyani.

kds1980 · #7 (**permalink**) 08-Aug-2005, 22:41 PM

wjkk
wjkf

thank you for your reply gyani jee i also beleive that there is no heaven
no hell all these places are here.but on the tapoban.org there is a debate going
on "sachkhand or chaurasi lakh" majority of them beleive that heaven and hell do exists .they say books of bhai rama singh or unditti duniya contains experience of many gursikhs of high avastha which have seen hell with inner eyes. some of the quotes they are writing are

aagai jam dhal bikham ghanaa
terrible is the army of yamas in the hereafter

--------------------------------------------------------------

jinee naam visaariaa bahu karam kamaavehi hor ||
Those who forget the Naam and do other things,

naanak JAM PUR badhhae maareeahi jio sa(n)nhee oupar chor ||1||
O Nanak, will be bound and gagged and beaten in the City of Death, like the thief caught red-handed

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

sabh ko laekhae vich hai manamukh aha(n)kaaree ||
All are held accountable, even the egotistical self-willed manmukhs

har naam kadhae n chaethee jamakaal sir maaree ||
They never even think of the Name of the Lord; the MESSENGER OF DEATH shall HIT them on their HEADS

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5313

now on one hand there are persons including late gyani sant singh ji maskeen
which say that heaven and hell are here.on the other hand there are people
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5313
who say that heaven and do exist.and they are separate places.does it mean that it is also disputed subject in sikhism just like meat.
bhul chuk maaf

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #8 (**permalink**) 11-Aug-2005, 16:56 PM

The "horrible Tortures" etc described as happening to people in Hell..are for BODIES.... whereas we know for a FACT that the Human body is LEFT BEHIND here on earth as a pile of ashes..and ONLY the SOUL/AATMA goes FORWARD.

How can a "SOUL" whci has no body, not able to feel any pain/sorrow/ etc etc be made to suffer by being put in a boiling OIL cauldron ?? OIL is a PHYSICAL substance...available only on EARTH..and sois FIRE, CAULDRONS (pots) etc etc.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5313

It is Utterly RIDICULOUS NOtion to suggest that in the "hell" there are millions of CAULDRONS ( for the BILLIONS of people/dogs/cats/germs/life forms who have already died and will die in future !!) ( What proof that ONLY "humans" go to hell ??)..and Billions of TONS of boiling OIL ?? where does the WOOD for the fires come from ?? or are these High Tech "Electrical or Atomic Nuclear Energy fires ?? etc..and isnt Hell terribly POLLUTED with all that Smoke ?? Blah blah Blah..

The sad truth is that all these are HUMAN NOTIONS.... humans feel BURNT/Tortured by this boiling oil etc...Thats WHY GURU ARJUN JI was put on the Hot Plate and Boiled Alive...all these ideas are foreign to Gurmatt and Sikhi. Whereever mentioned in Gurbani..these are merely Metaphorical Examples of the "type of suffering " one GETS when SEPARATED from WAHEGURU. Even a Nincompoop can see How SERENE and UNAFFECTED GURU ARJUN JI SAHIB IS....even when His PHYSICAL BODY is BURNING/BOILING...Because He is IN TOUCH with WAHEGURU JI...Guru Ji declares Tera Bhanna MEETHA LAGGEH Naam Padarth Nanak MANGGEH !!! Not screams of Terror and Pain. This is an example of the "type" of pain the soul will endure if it fails to connect to GOD duriogn the time accorded in thsi human form..and IF anyone is IN TUNE with GOD..even His HUMAN BODY with all the pain NERVES FLESH etc WILL NOT BE feeling any Pain as GURU JI DEMONSTRATED.

Gurmatt is NOT a RELIGION of FEAR..It is a RELIGION OF LOVE. GURU NANAK-GURU GOBIND SINGH JI are NOT "FEAR ICONS"..Did GURU Arjun Ji "threaten" Jehgangir chandu etc with Fire and Brimstone in HELL..NO the oNly words out of Guru Ji's Mouth are Tera Bhanna Meeetha Laggeh.. DOSH na Kahoon deyonh..I DONT BLAME ANYONE !!!...so How can we "read" such Threats in GURBANI written by the SAME GURUS ?? Clealry it is a MISREPRESNTATION by our own Gyanis...misunderstanding of the MESSAGE ??? GURU Ji in his own Personal Example shows us ONE thing..and we interpret his GURBANi to mean another ?? WRONG. GURU Ji is CONSISTENT and syas what He MEANS allways.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5313

jarnail Singh gyani.

chiecapri · #9 (**permalink**) 12-Aug-2005, 00:48 AM

keI koit pwqwl
ky vwsI ] keI koit nrk surg invwsI ] keI koit jnmih jIvih mrih ] keI koit bhu jonI
iPrih ] keI koit bYTq hI Kwih ] keI koit Gwlih Qik pwih ] keI koit kIey DnvMq ] keI
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5313
koit mwieAw mih icMq ] jh jh Bwxw qh qh rwKy ] nwnk sBu ikCu pRB kY hwQy ]5]pNnw 276

Heaven is here and Hell is here on earth. But no person with any degrees or without any academic degrees can prove this. It is a question to be answered by Dhan Guru Granth Sahebji himself. Narak swarag is determind by a living person's deeds of his/her lifetime. Good deeds are like residing without the 5 chors. Which is very difficult in this modern world. We are not able to define Any Paap Or Punns for ourselves.

zykr AsI iksI dw kyvL idL vI dU^w dyeIXy zW iksI nwL koe IizsmwnI DoKw kr dyeIXy qW qW swfw nrk rUpI ies DrqI qy punrjnm huMdw hYqy sWnU ies dunIAw idAW qkLIPW dubwrw sihnIAW pYMdIAW ny ! qW krky hI ies dunIAw ivc duK qkLIP vddy zw rhY ny ! ienW qON inzwq pwx dw iek hI apwA hY!gurU gRMQ swihb dI syvw qy mnuK syvw !

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5313

slok mÚ 3 ] ijn@I nwmu ivswirAw kUVy khx
khMin@ ] pMc cor iqnw Gru muhin@ haumY AMdir sMin@ ] swkq muTy durmqI hir rsu n jwxMin@ ]
ijn@I AMimRqu Brim lutwieAw ibKu isau rcih rcMin@ ] dustw syqI iprhVI jn isau vwdu krMin@
] nwnk swkq nrk mih jim bDy duK shMin@ ] pieAY ikriq kmwvdy ijv rwKih iqvY rhMin@
]1] mÚ 3 ] ijn@I siqguru syivAw qwxu inqwxy iqsu ] swis igrwis sdw min vsY jmu joih n
skY iqsu ] ihrdY hir hir nwm rsu kvlw syvik iqsu ] hir dwsw kw dwsu hoie prm pdwrQu
iqsu ] nwnk min qin ijsu pRBu vsY hau sd kurbwxY iqsu ] ijn@ kau pUrib iliKAw rsu sMq
jnw isau iqsu ]2] pauVI ] jo boly pUrw siqgurU so prmysir suixAw ] soeI vriqAw jgq mih
Git Git muiK BixAw ] bhuqu vifAweIAw swihbY nh jwhI gxIAw ] scu shju Andu siqgurU
pwis scI gur mxIAw ] nwnk sMq svwry pwrbRhim scy ijau bixAw ]12]pNnw 854