One Infinite Creator in Sikhism, What Does it Mean?

Archived_member15 · #64 (**permalink**) 14-Mar-2012, 21:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ambarsaria

in Sikhism living is far more important than any thought of beyond

This is very true brother Ambarsaria mundahug

In Christianity one sometimes encounters ascetic-minded people who are not focused on this world but rather on an afterlife born of their own imagination.

The Sikh emphasis on living is very impotant in countering this kind of extreme asceticalism. A Christian such as myself can learn much from Sikhism in this respect. For Sikhs, I have learned, there is no division between the profane and sacred. Holiness is not a state in which one tries to flee from the world and its affairs, as is often the case in certain sects of Hinduism, Gnosticism and in Buddhism where the goal is to liberate oneself from an illusionary world. In such systems of thought the material and fleshly is very much demeaned and the Universe/Creation is sometimes seen as something that restrains or imprisons the spirit and must be fled from; at its most extreme in the gnostic model creation is seen as "evil". For Sikhs creation is permeated with the presence and reality of God, who is in all things without being contained by them or limited to them, indeed he both indwells all created things and at the same time transcends them. Creation is good in Sikhism, the world is good, reality is good. This transitory, material world is part of the Infinite God and shares his attributes, partakes of them, bears His trace in all things.

It is not tommorrow, not in some mythical, unknowable, uncertifiable afterlife or indeed in another lifetime that we experience the Infinite One, the Beautiful, Our Glorious Beloved but rather it is in our 'everyday' or 'daily' lives.

Unlike some faiths, or should one say understanding by disciples of those faiths, Sikhism is not so much an 'Orthodoxy' (right/correct belief) as it is an 'Orthopraxy' (right/correct action). In Sikhi an existence lived according to truth, a truthful life, is accounted as being greater even than the grasping of Truth itself:

"...Higher than everything is Truth but higher still is True living..."

- Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, p62

Sikhs thus find God and holiness in the midst of everyday life.

The Adi Granth encapsulated the Sikh attitude to holiness for me in these words:

"...Spiritual liberation is attained in the midst of laughing, playing, dressing up and eating..."

- Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, p 522

Sikhism posits such a positive attitude to life and living. It reminds me of the Rabbinic teaching that the meaning of life is simply 'to live'.

And it correlates much better with the actual teachings of the Lord Jesus, his Apostles, the Church Fathers, saints and teachings of the Catholic Church than any attempt to try and flee reality and demean life.

The above quote in fact reminds me of Jesus' life.

When describing the hypocrisy of the Pharisees, religious leaders of Judea, Jesus explained how they found fault with John the Baptist's "ascetic" life by claiming he was demon possessed and then found fault also with Jesus' life which they saw as too "worldly":

"...For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon’; the Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Look, a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!..."

- Jesus Christ (Luke 7:33-34 NRSV)

CS Lewis, the great Anglican theologian, commented:

"...Our Lord Jesus pointed out the contrast between the hermit and ascetic John the Baptist, and Himself who drank wine and went to dinner parties and jostled with every kind of man..."

Jesus was thus viewed disdainfully by the religious leaders of his day as a "vagabond" who refused to follow the laws of ritual cleanliness, and for not separating the holy from the everyday.

"...His disciples said to him, 'When will the rest of the dead come about, and when will the new world come?'

He said to them, 'What you look forward to has already come, but you do not recognize it.'..."

- Jesus Christ

"...You examine the face of heaven and earth, but you have not come to know the one who is in your presence, and you do not know how to examine the present moment..."

- Jesus Christ

"Hearken to the word, understand knowledge, love life, and no one will persecute you, nor will anyone oppress you, other than you yourselves...I have remembered your tears and your grief and your sorrow. They are far from us...You are the Beloved; you are those who will become a cause of life for many. Beseech the Father. Yours is life! Rejoice and be glad as children of God...This is why I say this to you, that you may know yourselves. For the Kingdom of Heaven is like an ear of grain which sprouted in a field. And when it ripened, it scattered its fruit and, in turn, filled the field with ears of grain for another year. You also: be zealous to reap for yourselves an ear of life, that you may be filled with the Kingdom!"

- Jesus Christ

"...I came that they may have life, and have it to the full..."

- Jesus Christ

chazSingh · #65 (**permalink**) 14-Mar-2012, 21:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ambarsaria

One set of elements that all form part of "Ek Noor"

This Ek Noor is the material in the mixing bowl that the creator picks from, we transformed out of and will transform back into
At the highest level of scientific thought, this "Ek Noor" is matter and Energy without any imprints of who and where they come from or long term memory. A human's ashes, an ant's remains, or phosphorus in the soil provide same to a plant or a tree that grows henceforth.

the mere definition of matter has changed since the text books we once read at school...

When they cracked open an atom, guess what they found.....nothing

an atom is 99% empty space (they call it spave becasue they cannot detect whats in it), the remaing 1% is protons and neutron.

The positive and negative charges in all of the atoms in our bodys, and the surroundings create the feeling of solidness in wood/metal or the less dense feeling of water.

Therefore the chair i currently sit on is 99% empty space...is it really there as a solid item...or is my body computer making it feel solid so that i dont fall through it

my belief is that that 99% is the naam, energy, universal vibration, universal consciousness that flows through all of creation...the unseen, formless, the EK from which came the ONG (sound, vibration). and the 1% is the Kaar (the skin, creation, the form of the formless, the created, the visible).

Just my theory. I don't actually know anything

all is god...the all knowing.

Archived_member15 · #66 (**permalink**) 14-Mar-2012, 22:00 PM

I think that the teachings of the biblical book of Ecclesiastes are very in tune with Sikhi values:

"...There is nothing better for mortals than to eat and drink, and find enjoyment in their toil. This also, I saw, is from the hand of God; for apart from him who can eat or who can have enjoyment?... I know that there is nothing better for them than to be happy and enjoy themselves as long as they live; moreover, it is God's gift that all should eat and drink and take pleasure in all their toil. I said in my heart with regard to human beings that God is testing them to show that they are but animals. For the fate of humans and the fate of animals is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and humans have no advantage over the animals; for all is impermanent, like breath. All go to one place; all are from the dust, and all turn to dust again. Who knows whether the human spirit goes upward and the spirit of animals goes downward to the earth? So I saw that there is nothing better than that all should enjoy their work, for that is their lot; who can bring them to see what will be after them?...As they [human beings] came from their mother's womb, so they shall go again, naked as they came...This is what I have seen to be good: it is fitting to eat and drink and find enjoyment in all the toil with which one toils under the sun the few days of the life God gives us; for this is our lot. Likewise all to whom God gives wealth and possessions and whom he enables to enjoy them, and to accept their lot and find enjoyment in their toil--this is the gift of God. For they will scarcely brood over the days of their lives, because God keeps them occupied with the joy of their hearts...Whoever is joined with all the living has hope, for a living dog is better than a dead lion. The living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing...Go, eat your bread with enjoyment, and drink your wine with a merry heart; for God has long ago approved what you do. Let your garments always be white; do not let oil be lacking on your head. Enjoy life with the wife whom you love, all the days of your fleeting life that are given you under the sun, because that is your portion in life and in your toil at which you toil under the sun. Whatever your hand finds to do, do with your might; for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in death, to which you are going...Just as you do not know how the breath comes to the bones in the mother's womb, so you do not know the work of God, who makes everything...Rejoice, young man, while you are young, and let your heart cheer you in the days of your youth. Follow the inclination of your heart and the desire of your eyes...Banish anxiety from your mind, and put away pain from your body; for youth and the dawn of life are impermanent. Remember your creator in the days of your youth..."
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/38210-one-infinite-creator-sikhism-what-does.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38210

- Book of Ecclesiastes, Holy Bible

Its my FAVOURITE BOOK OF THE BIBLE peacesignkaur

chazSingh · #67 (**permalink**) 14-Mar-2012, 22:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZaraONE

The "experience" is what counts - (we say keep our mind low and wisdom exalted everyday in Ardas -wisdom flows to the mind from "somewhere" ) - things you never knew before are illuminated in a way you never imagined possible - the Guru is the Teacher and sends the information download. Where is this source of intelligence coming from? I can only say ONE Formless "energy" a feeling/vibration and data dump within. When we surrender to the will, then things are made clear. I know nothing but listen and then take the action. Blessings.

I have sold my body and mind to the Guru, and I have given my mind and head as well - Guru Nanak

Those who have good destiny pre-ordained and inscribed on their foreheads, grasp it and keep it enshrined in the heart- Guru Amar Das

Call permanent only the One, who does not have destiny inscribed upon His Forehead - Guru Nanak

He alone is a warrior, and he alone is the chosen one, upon whose forehead good destiny is recorded.

In the month of Jayt'h, the playful Husband Lord meets her, upon whose forehead such good destiny is recorded.

Once we take time to understand our own minds...to understand how thoughts are generated, where they come from, what influences them then Gurbani takes a whole new meaning. you start to delve deeper into the mansroaver, the knowledge contained within.

start to seperate yourself from your mind, for we are not the mind..we are the soul..start analyzing the thoughts as though they are a seperate entity, laugh at the crazy thoughts, see how the mind tries to control you...eventually the mind will give up...and you'll start to hear the voice of God...the one thought which is divine and perfect..

This is my belief and what you seem to be experiencing. I get it sometimes as well, you just know that that one particular thought grabs you by the arm and just feels so right. Intuition - divine all knowing thought

On keeping with the Topic of this thread. The one creator God...the creation was created by a thought, god wanting to experience himself...maybe the Anhad shabad / naam flowing through the universe is the universal minds thought's flowing and creating the form. Gods thought

This is just a thought that flew into my mind just now

quite interesting...and has got me thinking....

prakash.s.bagga · #68 (**permalink**) 14-Mar-2012, 22:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chazSingh

the mere definition of matter has changed since the text books we once read at school...

When they cracked open an atom, guess what they found.....nothing

an atom is 99% empty space (they call it spave becasue they cannot detect whats in it), the remaing 1% is protons and neutron.

The positive and negative charges in all of the atoms in our bodys, and the surroundings create the feeling of solidness in wood/metal or the less dense feeling of water.

Therefore the chair i currently sit on is 99% empty space...is it really there as a solid item...or is my body computer making it feel solid so that i dont fall through it

my belief is that that 99% is the naam, energy, universal vibration, universal consciousness that flows through all of creation...the unseen, formless, the EK from which came the ONG (sound, vibration). and the 1% is the Kaar (the skin, creation, the form of the formless, the created, the visible).

Just my theory. I don't actually know anything

all is god...the all knowing.

My understanding is that it 100% NAAMu only. As NAAMu is perfect and complete. NAAMu is a WAVE/VIBRATION and therefore has FORM.
Prakash.S.Bagga

Ambarsaria · #69 (**permalink**) 14-Mar-2012, 22:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prakash.s.bagga

My understanding is that it 100% NAAMu only. As NAAMu is perfect and complete. NAAMu is a WAVE/VIBRATION and therefore has FORM.
Prakash.S.Bagga

Prakash.S.Bagga ji define and clarify NAAMu as perhaps 99.99% don't think of it like you do. For me it is developed understanding of the creator through Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. What do you believe it to be?

Sat Sri Akal.

chazSingh · #70 (**permalink**) 14-Mar-2012, 22:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prakash.s.bagga

My understanding is that it 100% NAAMu only. As NAAMu is perfect and complete. NAAMu is a WAVE/VIBRATION and therefore has FORM.
Prakash.S.Bagga

It most likely is all naam...for there is no space where god isnt. the 1% would be waheguru Ji / naam also.

I get really excited thinking about this all...the thirst within just wells up.
How amazing is the creation of EKONGKAAR. I just want to sit and meditate and contemplate some more..ask these sorts of questions and see what comes up in the mind from within.

What is your opinion on the anhad shabad, the vibrations from the formless being gods thoughts which generate the form.
for example...we all have invisble thoughts in our mind...no form...but when we have an angry thought...this formless vibration causes the form i.e. blood pressure to rise, heart to beat faster, face to turn red, eyes to squint...
Would this not be the method of creation for god...Universal mind, generating thoughts that create/sustain/destroy the form? Naam?

There are probable quotes depicting this in gurbani...will have a look.

appologies for blabbing on like a fool...god bless all.

prakash.s.bagga · #71 (**permalink**) 14-Mar-2012, 22:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ambarsaria

Prakash.S.Bagga ji define and clarify NAAMu as perhaps 99.99% don't think of it like you do. For me it is developed understanding of the creator through Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. What do you believe it to be?

Sat Sri Akal.

For me NAAMu is RAM NAAMu /HARi NAAMu or Gurmati RAM NAAMu.
I dont know how you interprate these.

Prakash.s.Bagga

Ambarsaria · #72 (**permalink**) 14-Mar-2012, 22:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prakash.s.bagga

For me NAAMu is RAM NAAMu /HARi NAAMu or Gurmati RAM NAAMu.
I dont know how you interprate these.

Prakash.s.Bagga

Prakash.S.Bagga ji people answer questions with information and not one liners. See posts by Vouthon ji (a much younger person), and many others. Why they do that because they give respect and want to learn and hep. Your Ramu, Shamu, Prabhu one liner stuff really is pretty useless and at best a way to mis-lead like say many Nirmalas do. Basically create confusion and destroy Sikhism. Sorry to again come back to your antics of not being helpful but just a one liner poster.

May you one day have the courage to post your beliefs in detail and not be scared that you might find challenges.

Sat Sri Akal.