Sign Up |  Live StatsLive Stats    Articles 39,040| Comments 192,367| Members 20,176, Newest RaiKaur721| Online 305
Home Contact
 (Forgotten?): 
    Chaar Sahibzaade
    For best SPN experience, use Firefox Internet Browser!


                                                                   Your Banner Here!    




Click Here to Register/Sign Up Daily Hukamnama Member Blogs Downloads Website Navigation Help Fonts Tags
Sikh Philosophy Network » Sikh Philosophy Network » Sikh Sikhi Sikhism » Is Hindu/Sikh a Valid Adherent?

Is Hindu/Sikh a Valid Adherent?

Our Donation Goal : Why Donate? : Donate Today! : Donate Anonymously (ਗੁਪਤ) : Our Family of Supporters
Goal this month: 300 USD, Received: 25 USD (8%)
Please Donate...
       

Tags
adherent, hindu or sikh, hinduism, karma, reincarnation, valid, vedanta, vedas
Reply Post New Topic In This Forum Stay Connected to Sikhism, Click Here to Register Now!
  #91 (permalink)  
Old 25-Feb-2012, 02:31 AM
amarjit singh bamrah's Avatar amarjit singh bamrah amarjit singh bamrah is offline
 
Enrolled: Jan 18th, 2012
Location: london uk
Age: 64
Posts: 81
amarjit singh bamrah is an unknown quantity at this point
   
Adherent: God is all Religions
Liked 72 Times in 43 Posts
    Nationality: United Kingdom
Re: Is Hindu/Sikh a Valid Adherent?

  Donate Today!   Email to Friend  Tell a Friend   Show Printable Version  Print   Contact sikhphilosophy.net Administraion for any Suggestions, Ideas, Feedback.  Feedback  

Register to Remove Advertisements
Quote:
Originally Posted by navneetk View Post
Mr. Harry,

Entire Gurbani talks of Karma and re-births/incarnation/transmigration and what you state is as you prefer the things should be.

Please do not spoil sikhi or whatever of it is left intact. However, this forum is free for all. But it should not give any room for error though margin of error may be permissible. Please read bani first, assimilate and then comment on sikhi or sikh philosophy.

Satnaam

What worries many people in charge is that re-incarnation
means the person has been born in previous lives as a Hindu, Muslim, Christian Jew etc

This very thought frightens them.
So to keep their power and keep control over their Sangat/congregration the Christian and Moslem Priests and Imams preached there is No re-incarnation.

They preach embrace Christian and or Moslem religion and you are guaranteed a safe passage straight into Heaven.

It saddens me much this is now spreading into some Sikhs who have been influenced by this teaching.

Re-incarnation exists has always existed.

Meditate and you will find the answers.

It makes me very sad.

amarjit






Do you agree or disagree with the writer above? Why not share your immediate thoughts with us! Login Now! or Sign Up Today! to share your views... Gurfateh!
Reply With Quote
The following member appreciates amarjit singh bamrah Ji for the above message.
Sponsored Links
  #92 (permalink)  
Old 25-Feb-2012, 02:33 AM
Kanwaljit Singh's Avatar Kanwaljit Singh Kanwaljit Singh is offline
Goes dhai lakh on 30Nov13
 
Enrolled: Jan 29th, 2011
Location: Delhi, India
Age: 29
Posts: 1,434
Kanwaljit Singh is a glorious beacon of light
Kanwaljit Singh is a glorious beacon of lightKanwaljit Singh is a glorious beacon of lightKanwaljit Singh is a glorious beacon of lightKanwaljit Singh is a glorious beacon of lightKanwaljit Singh is a glorious beacon of lightKanwaljit Singh is a glorious beacon of light
   
Adherent: Sikhi
Liked 2,122 Times in 934 Posts
   
Re: Is Hindu/Sikh a Valid Adherent?

Many people also use reincarnation saying that they were non-adherents in previous birth but have now come to the fold of religion. Let us be very frank. We are all living this human life, we are all living on the road. None of us have a place in the Mansion of Lord yet.
Reply With Quote
The following members appreciate Kanwaljit Singh Ji for the above message.
  #93 (permalink)  
Old 25-Feb-2012, 05:59 AM
BhagatSingh's Avatar BhagatSingh BhagatSingh is offline
 
Enrolled: Apr 25th, 2006
Posts: 2,807
BhagatSingh is a jewel in the roughBhagatSingh is a jewel in the roughBhagatSingh is a jewel in the roughBhagatSingh is a jewel in the roughBhagatSingh is a jewel in the roughBhagatSingh is a jewel in the roughBhagatSingh is a jewel in the roughBhagatSingh is a jewel in the roughBhagatSingh is a jewel in the roughBhagatSingh is a jewel in the roughBhagatSingh is a jewel in the roughBhagatSingh is a jewel in the rough
   
Adherent: Sikhism
Liked 1,589 Times in 829 Posts
    Nationality: Canada
Re: Is Hindu/Sikh a Valid Adherent?

Ok so all the other Bhagats and Brahmin Bards, total 28, out of which Bhagat Kabir ji is the most quoted in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, cannot be Vaishnav and Sikh at the same time? Fine, let's leave them aside.

That leaves 6 Guru Sahib, Mardana and Sheikh Farid ji. Let us look at their bani and consider some of the topics that are brought up.

If we look at reincarnation then the latter two do not make any mention of it (that makes sense as they are Muslim). Out of the 6 Gurus, Guru Angad Dev ji does not mention reincarnation. That leaves Guru Nanak Dev ji, Guru Amardas ji, Guru Ramdas ji, Guru Arjan Dev ji and Guru Tegh Bahadur ji. Let's look at a sample of what each one has to say about reincarnation.

Now remember the issue here is not whether one needs to believe in reincarnation or not to achieve liberation. It is clear that one only need to dissolve one's ego to achieve liberation. This has been known since forever. The Guru Sahibs knows this and so they can get the idea that "liberation can be achieved through dissolving of the ego" across without making reference to reincarnation. (Guru Sahibs' primary role is to help people dissolve their ego. Give them techniques and advice on how to do so. Basically guide them through it. They also listen to their problems and take away their suffering. In doing so they gain large followings, with followings comes gain in power and resources, which they put towards betterment of society, their secondary role.) The question is whether the Gurus actually believed their own word when they say continuously mention reincarnation. Do they believe in reincarnation?

What does everyone make of these shabads?

Guru Nanak Dev ji
ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥
सिरीरागु महला १ ॥
Sirīrāg mėhlā 1.
Siree Raag, First Mehl:

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਰਾ ਜੇ ਮਿਲੈ ਪਾਈਐ ਰਤਨੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
सतिगुरु पूरा जे मिलै पाईऐ रतनु बीचारु ॥
Saṯgur pūrā je milai pā▫ī▫ai raṯan bīcẖār.
Meeting the Perfect True Guru, we find the jewel of meditative reflection.

ਮਨੁ ਦੀਜੈ ਗੁਰ ਆਪਣੇ ਪਾਈਐ ਸਰਬ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥
मनु दीजै गुर आपणे पाईऐ सरब पिआरु ॥
Man ḏījai gur āpṇe pā▫ī▫ai sarab pi▫ār.
Surrendering our minds to our Guru, we find universal love.

ਮੁਕਤਿ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਅਵਗਣ ਮੇਟਣਹਾਰੁ ॥੧॥
मुकति पदारथु पाईऐ अवगण मेटणहारु ॥१॥
Mukaṯ paḏārath pā▫ī▫ai avgaṇ metaṇhār. ||1||
We find the wealth of liberation, and our demerits are erased. ||1||

ਭਾਈ ਰੇ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥
भाई रे गुर बिनु गिआनु न होइ ॥
Bẖā▫ī re gur bin gi▫ān na ho▫e.
O Siblings of Destiny, without the Guru, there is no spiritual wisdom.

ਪੂਛਹੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੇ ਨਾਰਦੈ ਬੇਦ ਬਿਆਸੈ ਕੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
पूछहु ब्रहमे नारदै बेद बिआसै कोइ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Pūcẖẖahu barahme nārḏai beḏ bi▫āsai ko▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Go and ask Brahma, Naarad and Vyaas, the writer of the Vedas. ||1||Pause||

ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਧੁਨਿ ਜਾਣੀਐ ਅਕਥੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਸੋਇ ॥
गिआनु धिआनु धुनि जाणीऐ अकथु कहावै सोइ ॥
Gi▫ān ḏẖi▫ān ḏẖun jāṇī▫ai akath kahāvai so▫e.
Know that from the vibration of the Word, we obtain spiritual wisdom and meditation. Through it, we speak the Unspoken.

ਸਫਲਿਓ ਬਿਰਖੁ ਹਰੀਆਵਲਾ ਛਾਵ ਘਣੇਰੀ ਹੋਇ ॥
सफलिओ बिरखु हरीआवला छाव घणेरी होइ ॥
Safli▫o birakẖ harī▫āvlā cẖẖāv gẖaṇerī ho▫e.
He is the fruit-bearing Tree, luxuriantly green with abundant shade.

ਲਾਲ ਜਵੇਹਰ ਮਾਣਕੀ ਗੁਰ ਭੰਡਾਰੈ ਸੋਇ ॥੨॥
लाल जवेहर माणकी गुर भंडारै सोइ ॥२॥
Lāl javehar māṇkī gur bẖandārai so▫e. ||2||
The rubies, jewels and emeralds are in the Guru's Treasury. ||2||

ਗੁਰ ਭੰਡਾਰੈ ਪਾਈਐ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਨਾਮ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥
गुर भंडारै पाईऐ निरमल नाम पिआरु ॥
Gur bẖandārai pā▫ī▫ai nirmal nām pi▫ār.
From the Guru's Treasury, we receive the Love of the Immaculate Naam, the Name of the Lord.

ਸਾਚੋ ਵਖਰੁ ਸੰਚੀਐ ਪੂਰੈ ਕਰਮਿ ਅਪਾਰੁ ॥
साचो वखरु संचीऐ पूरै करमि अपारु ॥
Sācẖo vakẖar sancẖī▫ai pūrai karam apār.
We gather in the True Merchandise, through the Perfect Grace of the Infinite.

ਸੁਖਦਾਤਾ ਦੁਖ ਮੇਟਣੋ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਅਸੁਰ ਸੰਘਾਰੁ ॥੩॥
सुखदाता दुख मेटणो सतिगुरु असुर संघारु ॥३॥
Sukẖ▫ḏāṯa ḏukẖ metṇo saṯgur asur sangẖār. ||3||
The True Guru is the Giver of peace, the Dispeller of pain, the Destroyer of demons. ||3||

ਭਵਜਲੁ ਬਿਖਮੁ ਡਰਾਵਣੋ ਨਾ ਕੰਧੀ ਨਾ ਪਾਰੁ ॥
भवजलु बिखमु डरावणो ना कंधी ना पारु ॥
Bẖavjal bikẖam darāvṇo nā kanḏẖī nā pār.
The terrifying world-ocean is difficult and dreadful; there is no shore on this side or the one beyond.

ਨਾ ਬੇੜੀ ਨਾ ਤੁਲਹੜਾ ਨਾ ਤਿਸੁ ਵੰਝੁ ਮਲਾਰੁ ॥
ना बेड़ी ना तुलहड़ा ना तिसु वंझु मलारु ॥
Nā beṛī nā ṯulhaṛā nā ṯis vanjẖ malār.
There is no boat, no raft, no oars and no boatman.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਭੈ ਕਾ ਬੋਹਿਥਾ ਨਦਰੀ ਪਾਰਿ ਉਤਾਰੁ ॥੪॥
सतिगुरु भै का बोहिथा नदरी पारि उतारु ॥४॥
Saṯgur bẖai kā bohithā naḏrī pār uṯār. ||4||
The True Guru is the only boat on this terrifying ocean. His Glance of Grace carries us across. ||4||

ਇਕੁ ਤਿਲੁ ਪਿਆਰਾ ਵਿਸਰੈ ਦੁਖੁ ਲਾਗੈ ਸੁਖੁ ਜਾਇ ॥
इकु तिलु पिआरा विसरै दुखु लागै सुखु जाइ ॥
Ik ṯil pi▫ārā visrai ḏukẖ lāgai sukẖ jā▫e.
If I forget my Beloved, even for an instant, suffering overtakes me and peace departs.

ਜਿਹਵਾ ਜਲਉ ਜਲਾਵਣੀ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਜਪੈ ਰਸਾਇ ॥
जिहवा जलउ जलावणी नामु न जपै रसाइ ॥
Jihvā jala▫o jalāvaṇī nām na japai rasā▫e.
Let that tongue be burnt in flames, which does not chant the Naam with love.

ਘਟੁ ਬਿਨਸੈ ਦੁਖੁ ਅਗਲੋ ਜਮੁ ਪਕੜੈ ਪਛੁਤਾਇ ॥੫॥
घटु बिनसै दुखु अगलो जमु पकड़ै पछुताइ ॥५॥
Gẖat binsai ḏukẖ aglo jam pakṛai pacẖẖuṯā▫e. ||5||
When the pitcher of the body bursts, there is terrible pain; those who are caught by the Minister of Death regret and repent. ||5||

ਮੇਰੀ ਮੇਰੀ ਕਰਿ ਗਏ ਤਨੁ ਧਨੁ ਕਲਤੁ ਨ ਸਾਥਿ ॥
मेरी मेरी करि गए तनु धनु कलतु न साथि ॥
Merī merī kar ga▫e ṯan ḏẖan kalaṯ na sāth.
Crying out, "Mine! Mine!", they have departed, but their bodies, their wealth, and their wives did not go with them.

ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਧਨੁ ਬਾਦਿ ਹੈ ਭੂਲੋ ਮਾਰਗਿ ਆਥਿ ॥
बिनु नावै धनु बादि है भूलो मारगि आथि ॥
Bin nāvai ḏẖan bāḏ hai bẖūlo mārag āth.
Without the Name, wealth is useless; deceived by wealth, they have lost their way.

ਸਾਚਉ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸੇਵੀਐ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਅਕਥੋ ਕਾਥਿ ॥੬॥
साचउ साहिबु सेवीऐ गुरमुखि अकथो काथि ॥६॥
Sācẖa▫o sāhib sevī▫ai gurmukẖ aktho kāth. ||6||
So serve the True Lord; become Gurmukh, and speak the Unspoken. ||6||

ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ ਭਵਾਈਐ ਪਇਐ ਕਿਰਤਿ ਕਮਾਇ ॥
आवै जाइ भवाईऐ पइऐ किरति कमाइ ॥
Āvai jā▫e bẖavā▫ī▫ai pa▫i▫ai kiraṯ kamā▫e.
Coming and going, people wander through reincarnation; they act according to their past actions.

ਪੂਰਬਿ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਕਿਉ ਮੇਟੀਐ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਲੇਖੁ ਰਜਾਇ ॥
पूरबि लिखिआ किउ मेटीऐ लिखिआ लेखु रजाइ ॥
Pūrab likẖi▫ā ki▫o metī▫ai likẖi▫ā lekẖ rajā▫e.
How can one's pre-ordained destiny be erased? It is written in accordance with the Lord's Will.

ਬਿਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮ ਨ ਛੁਟੀਐ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਮਿਲਾਇ ॥੭॥
बिनु हरि नाम न छुटीऐ गुरमति मिलै मिलाइ ॥७॥
Bin har nām na cẖẖutī▫ai gurmaṯ milai milā▫e. ||7||
Without the Name of the Lord, no one can be saved. Through the Guru's Teachings, we are united in His Union. ||7||

ਤਿਸੁ ਬਿਨੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਕੋ ਨਹੀ ਜਿਸ ਕਾ ਜੀਉ ਪਰਾਨੁ ॥
तिसु बिनु मेरा को नही जिस का जीउ परानु ॥
Ŧis bin merā ko nahī jis kā jī▫o parān.
Without Him, I have no one to call my own. My soul and my breath of life belong to Him.

ਹਉਮੈ ਮਮਤਾ ਜਲਿ ਬਲਉ ਲੋਭੁ ਜਲਉ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ ॥
हउमै ममता जलि बलउ लोभु जलउ अभिमानु ॥
Ha▫umai mamṯā jal bala▫o lobẖ jala▫o abẖimān.
May my egotism and possessiveness be burnt to ashes, and my greed and egotistical pride consigned to the fire.

ਨਾਨਕ ਸਬਦੁ ਵੀਚਾਰੀਐ ਪਾਈਐ ਗੁਣੀ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ॥੮॥੧੦॥
नानक सबदु वीचारीऐ पाईऐ गुणी निधानु ॥८॥१०॥
Nānak sabaḏ vīcẖārī▫ai pā▫ī▫ai guṇī niḏẖān. ||8||10||
O Nanak, contemplating the Shabad, the Treasure of Excellence is obtained. ||8||10||
Page 59

Guru Amardas ji
ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ਘਰੁ ੧ ॥
सिरीरागु महला ३ घरु १ ॥
Sirīrāg mėhlā 3 gẖar 1.
Siree Raag, Third Mehl, First House:

ਜਿਸ ਹੀ ਕੀ ਸਿਰਕਾਰ ਹੈ ਤਿਸ ਹੀ ਕਾ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਇ ॥
जिस ही की सिरकार है तिस ही का सभु कोइ ॥
Jis hī kī sirkār hai ṯis hī kā sabẖ ko▫e.
Everyone belongs to the One who rules the Universe.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਵਣੀ ਸਚੁ ਘਟਿ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
गुरमुखि कार कमावणी सचु घटि परगटु होइ ॥
Gurmukẖ kār kamāvṇī sacẖ gẖat pargat ho▫e.
The Gurmukh practices good deeds, and the truth is revealed in the heart.

ਅੰਤਰਿ ਜਿਸ ਕੈ ਸਚੁ ਵਸੈ ਸਚੇ ਸਚੀ ਸੋਇ ॥
अंतरि जिस कै सचु वसै सचे सची सोइ ॥
Anṯar jis kai sacẖ vasai sacẖe sacẖī so▫e.
True is the reputation of the true, within whom truth abides.

ਸਚਿ ਮਿਲੇ ਸੇ ਨ ਵਿਛੁੜਹਿ ਤਿਨ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਵਾਸਾ ਹੋਇ ॥੧॥
सचि मिले से न विछुड़हि तिन निज घरि वासा होइ ॥१॥
Sacẖ mile se na vicẖẖuṛėh ṯin nij gẖar vāsā ho▫e. ||1||
Those who meet the True Lord are not separated again; they come to dwell in the home of the self deep within. ||1||

ਮੇਰੇ ਰਾਮ ਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
मेरे राम मै हरि बिनु अवरु न कोइ ॥
Mere rām mai har bin avar na ko▫e.
O my Lord! Without the Lord, I have no other at all.

ਸਤਗੁਰੁ ਸਚੁ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਨਿਰਮਲਾ ਸਬਦਿ ਮਿਲਾਵਾ ਹੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
सतगुरु सचु प्रभु निरमला सबदि मिलावा होइ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Saṯgur sacẖ parabẖ nirmalā sabaḏ milāvā ho▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o.
The True Guru leads us to meet the Immaculate True God through the Word of His Shabad. ||1||Pause||

ਸਬਦਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਸੋ ਮਿਲਿ ਰਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਨਉ ਆਪੇ ਲਏ ਮਿਲਾਇ ॥
सबदि मिलै सो मिलि रहै जिस नउ आपे लए मिलाइ ॥
Sabaḏ milai so mil rahai jis na▫o āpe la▫e milā▫e.
One whom the Lord merges into Himself is merged in the Shabad, and remains so merged.

ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ਕੋ ਨਾ ਮਿਲੈ ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ ॥
दूजै भाइ को ना मिलै फिरि फिरि आवै जाइ ॥
Ḏūjai bẖā▫e ko nā milai fir fir āvai jā▫e.
No one merges with Him through the love of duality; over and over again, they come and go in reincarnation.

ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਇਕੁ ਵਰਤਦਾ ਏਕੋ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਇ ॥
सभ महि इकु वरतदा एको रहिआ समाइ ॥
Sabẖ mėh ik varaṯḏā eko rahi▫ā samā▫e.
The One Lord permeates all. The One Lord is pervading everywhere.

ਜਿਸ ਨਉ ਆਪਿ ਦਇਆਲੁ ਹੋਇ ਸੋ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੨॥
जिस नउ आपि दइआलु होइ सो गुरमुखि नामि समाइ ॥२॥
Jis na▫o āp ḏa▫i▫āl ho▫e so gurmukẖ nām samā▫e. ||2||
That Gurmukh, unto whom the Lord shows His Kindness, is absorbed in the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||2||

ਪੜਿ ਪੜਿ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਜੋਤਕੀ ਵਾਦ ਕਰਹਿ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
पड़ि पड़ि पंडित जोतकी वाद करहि बीचारु ॥
Paṛ paṛ pandiṯ joṯkī vāḏ karahi bīcẖār.
After all their reading, the Pandits, the religious scholars, and the astrologers argue and debate.

ਮਤਿ ਬੁਧਿ ਭਵੀ ਨ ਬੁਝਈ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਲੋਭ ਵਿਕਾਰੁ ॥
मति बुधि भवी न बुझई अंतरि लोभ विकारु ॥
Maṯ buḏẖ bẖavī na bujẖ▫ī anṯar lobẖ vikār.
Their intellect and understanding are perverted; they just don't understand. They are filled with greed and corruption.

ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਭਰਮਦੇ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਹੋਇ ਖੁਆਰੁ ॥
लख चउरासीह भरमदे भ्रमि भ्रमि होइ खुआरु ॥
Lakẖ cẖa▫orāsīh bẖaramḏe bẖaram bẖaram ho▫e kẖu▫ār.
Through 8.4 million incarnations they wander lost and confused; through all their wandering and roaming, they are ruined.

ਪੂਰਬਿ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਕਮਾਵਣਾ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਮੇਟਣਹਾਰੁ ॥੩॥
पूरबि लिखिआ कमावणा कोइ न मेटणहारु ॥३॥
Pūrab likẖi▫ā kamāvaṇā ko▫e na metaṇhār. ||3||
They act according to their pre-ordained destiny, which no one can erase. ||3||

ਸਤਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਗਾਖੜੀ ਸਿਰੁ ਦੀਜੈ ਆਪੁ ਗਵਾਇ ॥
सतगुर की सेवा गाखड़ी सिरु दीजै आपु गवाइ ॥
Saṯgur kī sevā gākẖ▫ṛī sir ḏījai āp gavā▫e.
It is very difficult to serve the True Guru. Surrender your head; give up your selfishness.

ਸਬਦਿ ਮਿਲਹਿ ਤਾ ਹਰਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਸੇਵਾ ਪਵੈ ਸਭ ਥਾਇ ॥
सबदि मिलहि ता हरि मिलै सेवा पवै सभ थाइ ॥
Sabaḏ milėh ṯā har milai sevā pavai sabẖ thā▫e.
Realizing the Shabad, one meets with the Lord, and all one's service is accepted.

ਪਾਰਸਿ ਪਰਸਿਐ ਪਾਰਸੁ ਹੋਇ ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮਾਇ ॥
पारसि परसिऐ पारसु होइ जोती जोति समाइ ॥
Pāras parsi▫ai pāras ho▫e joṯī joṯ samā▫e.
By personally experiencing the Personality of the Guru, one's own personality is uplifted, and one's light merges into the Light.

ਜਿਨ ਕਉ ਪੂਰਬਿ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਤਿਨ ਸਤਗੁਰੁ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਆਇ ॥੪॥
जिन कउ पूरबि लिखिआ तिन सतगुरु मिलिआ आइ ॥४॥
Jin ka▫o pūrab likẖi▫ā ṯin saṯgur mili▫ā ā▫e. ||4||
Those who have such pre-ordained destiny come to meet the True Guru. ||4||

ਮਨ ਭੁਖਾ ਭੁਖਾ ਮਤ ਕਰਹਿ ਮਤ ਤੂ ਕਰਹਿ ਪੂਕਾਰ ॥
मन भुखा भुखा मत करहि मत तू करहि पूकार ॥
Man bẖukẖā bẖukẖā maṯ karahi maṯ ṯū karahi pūkār.
O mind, don't cry out that you are hungry, always hungry; stop complaining.

ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਜਿਨਿ ਸਿਰੀ ਸਭਸੈ ਦੇਇ ਅਧਾਰੁ ॥
लख चउरासीह जिनि सिरी सभसै देइ अधारु ॥
Lakẖ cẖa▫orāsīh jin sirī sabẖsai ḏe▫e aḏẖār.
The One who created the 8.4 million species of beings gives sustenance to all.

ਨਿਰਭਉ ਸਦਾ ਦਇਆਲੁ ਹੈ ਸਭਨਾ ਕਰਦਾ ਸਾਰ ॥
निरभउ सदा दइआलु है सभना करदा सार ॥
Nirbẖa▫o saḏā ḏa▫i▫āl hai sabẖnā karḏā sār.
The Fearless Lord is forever Merciful; He takes care of all.

ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਬੁਝੀਐ ਪਾਈਐ ਮੋਖ ਦੁਆਰੁ ॥੫॥੩॥੩੬॥
नानक गुरमुखि बुझीऐ पाईऐ मोख दुआरु ॥५॥३॥३६॥
Nānak gurmukẖ bujẖī▫ai pā▫ī▫ai mokẖ ḏu▫ār. ||5||3||36||
O Nanak, the Gurmukh understands, and finds the Door of Liberation. ||5||3||36||
Page 27

Guru Ramdas ji
ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ॥
बिलावलु महला ४ ॥
Bilāval mėhlā 4.
Bilaaval, Fourth Mehl:

ਹਮ ਮੂਰਖ ਮੁਗਧ ਅਗਿਆਨ ਮਤੀ ਸਰਣਾਗਤਿ ਪੁਰਖ ਅਜਨਮਾ ॥
हम मूरख मुगध अगिआन मती सरणागति पुरख अजनमा ॥
Ham mūrakẖ mugaḏẖ agi▫ān maṯī sarṇāgaṯ purakẖ ajnamā.
I am foolish, idiotic and ignorant; I seek Your Sanctuary, O Primal Being, O Lord beyond birth.

ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਰਖਿ ਲੇਵਹੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਹਮ ਪਾਥਰ ਹੀਨ ਅਕਰਮਾ ॥੧॥
करि किरपा रखि लेवहु मेरे ठाकुर हम पाथर हीन अकरमा ॥१॥
Kar kirpā rakẖ levhu mere ṯẖākur ham pāthar hīn akarmā. ||1||
Have Mercy upon me, and save me, O my Lord and Master; I am a lowly stone, with no good karma at all. ||1||

ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਭਜੁ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੈ ਰਾਮਾ ॥
मेरे मन भजु राम नामै रामा ॥
Mere man bẖaj rām nāmai rāmā.
O my mind, vibrate and meditate on the Lord, the Name of the Lord.

ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਹਰਿ ਰਸੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਹੋਰਿ ਤਿਆਗਹੁ ਨਿਹਫਲ ਕਾਮਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
गुरमति हरि रसु पाईऐ होरि तिआगहु निहफल कामा ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Gurmaṯ har ras pā▫ī▫ai hor ṯi▫āgahu nihfal kāmā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Under Guru's Instructions, obtain the sublime, subtle essence of the Lord; renounce other fruitless actions. ||1||Pause||

ਹਰਿ ਜਨ ਸੇਵਕ ਸੇ ਹਰਿ ਤਾਰੇ ਹਮ ਨਿਰਗੁਨ ਰਾਖੁ ਉਪਮਾ ॥
हरि जन सेवक से हरि तारे हम निरगुन राखु उपमा ॥
Har jan sevak se har ṯāre ham nirgun rākẖ upmā.
The humble servants of the Lord are saved by the Lord; I am worthless - it is Your glory to save me.

ਤੁਝ ਬਿਨੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਈ ਮੇਰੇ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਹਰਿ ਜਪੀਐ ਵਡੇ ਕਰੰਮਾ ॥੨॥
तुझ बिनु अवरु न कोई मेरे ठाकुर हरि जपीऐ वडे करमा ॥२॥
Ŧujẖ bin avar na ko▫ī mere ṯẖākur har japī▫ai vade karammā. ||2||
I have no other than You, O my Lord and Master; I meditate on the Lord, by my good karma. ||2||

ਨਾਮਹੀਨ ਧ੍ਰਿਗੁ ਜੀਵਤੇ ਤਿਨ ਵਡ ਦੂਖ ਸਹੰਮਾ ॥
नामहीन ध्रिगु जीवते तिन वड दूख सहमा ॥
Nāmhīn ḏẖarig jīvṯe ṯin vad ḏūkẖ sahammā.
Those who lack the Naam, the Name of the Lord, their lives are cursed, and they must endure terrible pain.

ਓਇ ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਜੋਨਿ ਭਵਾਈਅਹਿ ਮੰਦਭਾਗੀ ਮੂੜ ਅਕਰਮਾ ॥੩॥
ओइ फिरि फिरि जोनि भवाईअहि मंदभागी मूड़ अकरमा ॥३॥
O▫e fir fir jon bẖavā▫ī▫ah manḏ▫bẖāgī mūṛ akarmā. ||3||
They are consigned to reincarnation over and over again; they are the most unfortunate fools, with no good karma at all. ||3||

ਹਰਿ ਜਨ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਧਾਰੁ ਹੈ ਧੁਰਿ ਪੂਰਬਿ ਲਿਖੇ ਵਡ ਕਰਮਾ ॥
हरि जन नामु अधारु है धुरि पूरबि लिखे वड करमा ॥
Har jan nām aḏẖār hai ḏẖur pūrab likẖe vad karmā.
The Naam is the Support of the Lord's humble servants; their good karma is pre-ordained.

ਗੁਰਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਇਆ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਫਲੁ ਜਨੰਮਾ ॥੪॥੨॥
गुरि सतिगुरि नामु द्रिड़ाइआ जन नानक सफलु जनमा ॥४॥२॥
Gur saṯgur nām driṛ▫ā▫i▫ā jan Nānak safal jannamā. ||4||2||
The Guru, the True Guru, has implanted the Naam within servant Nanak, and his life is fruitful. ||4||2||
Page 799

Guru Arjan Dev ji
ਗਉੜੀ ਗੁਆਰੇਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
गउड़ी गुआरेरी महला ५ ॥
Ga▫oṛī gu▫ārerī mėhlā 5.
Gauree Gwaarayree, Fifth Mehl:

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਭਏ ਕੀਟ ਪਤੰਗਾ ॥
कई जनम भए कीट पतंगा ॥
Ka▫ī janam bẖa▫e kīt paṯangā.
In so many incarnations, you were a worm and an insect;

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਗਜ ਮੀਨ ਕੁਰੰਗਾ ॥
कई जनम गज मीन कुरंगा ॥
Ka▫ī janam gaj mīn kurangā.
in so many incarnations, you were an elephant, a fish and a deer.

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਪੰਖੀ ਸਰਪ ਹੋਇਓ ॥
कई जनम पंखी सरप होइओ ॥
Ka▫ī janam pankẖī sarap ho▫i▫o.
In so many incarnations, you were a bird and a snake.

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਹੈਵਰ ਬ੍ਰਿਖ ਜੋਇਓ ॥੧॥
कई जनम हैवर ब्रिख जोइओ ॥१॥
Ka▫ī janam haivar barikẖ jo▫i▫o. ||1||
In so many incarnations, you were yoked as an ox and a horse. ||1||

ਮਿਲੁ ਜਗਦੀਸ ਮਿਲਨ ਕੀ ਬਰੀਆ ॥
मिलु जगदीस मिलन की बरीआ ॥
Mil jagḏīs milan kī barī▫ā.
Meet the Lord of the Universe - now is the time to meet Him.

ਚਿਰੰਕਾਲ ਇਹ ਦੇਹ ਸੰਜਰੀਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
चिरंकाल इह देह संजरीआ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Cẖirankāl ih ḏeh sanjarī▫ā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
After so very long, this human body was fashioned for you. ||1||Pause||

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਸੈਲ ਗਿਰਿ ਕਰਿਆ ॥
कई जनम सैल गिरि करिआ ॥
Ka▫ī janam sail gir kari▫ā.
In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains;

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਗਰਭ ਹਿਰਿ ਖਰਿਆ ॥
कई जनम गरभ हिरि खरिआ ॥
Ka▫ī janam garabẖ hir kẖari▫ā.
in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb;

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਸਾਖ ਕਰਿ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥
कई जनम साख करि उपाइआ ॥
Ka▫ī janam sākẖ kar upā▫i▫ā.
in so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves;

ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਜੋਨਿ ਭ੍ਰਮਾਇਆ ॥੨॥
लख चउरासीह जोनि भ्रमाइआ ॥२॥
Lakẖ cẖa▫orāsīh jon bẖarmā▫i▫ā. ||2||
you wandered through 8.4 million incarnations. ||2||

ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਭਇਓ ਜਨਮੁ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ॥
साधसंगि भइओ जनमु परापति ॥
Sāḏẖsang bẖa▫i▫o janam parāpaṯ.
Through the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you obtained this human life.

ਕਰਿ ਸੇਵਾ ਭਜੁ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ॥
करि सेवा भजु हरि हरि गुरमति ॥
Kar sevā bẖaj har har gurmaṯ.
Do seva - selfless service; follow the Guru's Teachings, and vibrate the Lord's Name, Har, Har.

ਤਿਆਗਿ ਮਾਨੁ ਝੂਠੁ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ ॥
तिआगि मानु झूठु अभिमानु ॥
Ŧi▫āg mān jẖūṯẖ abẖimān.
Abandon pride, falsehood and arrogance.

ਜੀਵਤ ਮਰਹਿ ਦਰਗਹ ਪਰਵਾਨੁ ॥੩॥
जीवत मरहि दरगह परवानु ॥३॥
Jīvaṯ marėh ḏargėh parvān. ||3||
Remain dead while yet alive, and you shall be welcomed in the Court of the Lord. ||3||

ਜੋ ਕਿਛੁ ਹੋਆ ਸੁ ਤੁਝ ਤੇ ਹੋਗੁ ॥
जो किछु होआ सु तुझ ते होगु ॥
Jo kicẖẖ ho▫ā so ṯujẖ ṯe hog.
Whatever has been, and whatever shall be, comes from You, Lord.

ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਦੂਜਾ ਕਰਣੈ ਜੋਗੁ ॥
अवरु न दूजा करणै जोगु ॥
Avar na ḏūjā karṇai jog.
No one else can do anything at all.

ਤਾ ਮਿਲੀਐ ਜਾ ਲੈਹਿ ਮਿਲਾਇ ॥
ता मिलीऐ जा लैहि मिलाइ ॥
Ŧā milī▫ai jā laihi milā▫e.
We are united with You, when You unite us with Yourself.

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਇ ॥੪॥੩॥੭੨॥
कहु नानक हरि हरि गुण गाइ ॥४॥३॥७२॥
Kaho Nānak har har guṇ gā▫e. ||4||3||72||
Says Nanak, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, Har, Har. ||4||3||72||
Page 176

Guru Tegh Bahadur ji
ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੯ ਤਿਪਦੇ ॥
रागु रामकली महला ९ तिपदे ॥
Rāg rāmkalī mėhlā 9 ṯipḏe.
Raag Raamkalee, Ninth Mehl, Ti-Padas:

ਰੇ ਮਨ ਓਟ ਲੇਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਾ ॥
रे मन ओट लेहु हरि नामा ॥
Re man ot leho har nāmā.
O mind, take the sheltering support of the Lord's Name.

ਜਾ ਕੈ ਸਿਮਰਨਿ ਦੁਰਮਤਿ ਨਾਸੈ ਪਾਵਹਿ ਪਦੁ ਨਿਰਬਾਨਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
जा कै सिमरनि दुरमति नासै पावहि पदु निरबाना ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Jā kai simran ḏurmaṯ nāsai pāvahi paḏ nirbānā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Remembering Him in meditation, evil-mindedness is dispelled, and the state of Nirvaanaa is obtained. ||1||Pause||

ਬਡਭਾਗੀ ਤਿਹ ਜਨ ਕਉ ਜਾਨਹੁ ਜੋ ਹਰਿ ਕੇ ਗੁਨ ਗਾਵੈ ॥
बडभागी तिह जन कउ जानहु जो हरि के गुन गावै ॥
Badbẖāgī ṯih jan ka▫o jānhu jo har ke gun gāvai.
Know that one who sings the Glorious Praises of the Lord is very fortunate.

ਜਨਮ ਜਨਮ ਕੇ ਪਾਪ ਖੋਇ ਕੈ ਫੁਨਿ ਬੈਕੁੰਠਿ ਸਿਧਾਵੈ ॥੧॥
जनम जनम के पाप खोइ कै फुनि बैकुंठि सिधावै ॥१॥
Janam janam ke pāp kẖo▫e kai fun baikunṯẖ siḏẖāvai. ||1||
The sins of countless incarnations are washed off, and he attains the heavenly realm. ||1||

ਅਜਾਮਲ ਕਉ ਅੰਤ ਕਾਲ ਮਹਿ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ ਸੁਧਿ ਆਈ ॥
अजामल कउ अंत काल महि नाराइन सुधि आई ॥
Ajāmal ka▫o anṯ kāl mėh nārā▫in suḏẖ ā▫ī.
At the very last moment, Ajaamal became aware of the Lord;

ਜਾਂ ਗਤਿ ਕਉ ਜੋਗੀਸੁਰ ਬਾਛਤ ਸੋ ਗਤਿ ਛਿਨ ਮਹਿ ਪਾਈ ॥੨॥
जां गति कउ जोगीसुर बाछत सो गति छिन महि पाई ॥२॥
Jāʼn gaṯ ka▫o jogīsur bācẖẖaṯ so gaṯ cẖẖin mėh pā▫ī. ||2||
that state which even the supreme Yogis desire - he attained that state in an instant. ||2||

ਨਾਹਿਨ ਗੁਨੁ ਨਾਹਿਨ ਕਛੁ ਬਿਦਿਆ ਧਰਮੁ ਕਉਨੁ ਗਜਿ ਕੀਨਾ ॥
नाहिन गुनु नाहिन कछु बिदिआ धरमु कउनु गजि कीना ॥
Nāhin gun nāhin kacẖẖ biḏi▫ā ḏẖaram ka▫un gaj kīnā.
The elephant had no virtue and no knowledge; what religious rituals has he performed?

ਨਾਨਕ ਬਿਰਦੁ ਰਾਮ ਕਾ ਦੇਖਹੁ ਅਭੈ ਦਾਨੁ ਤਿਹ ਦੀਨਾ ॥੩॥੧॥
नानक बिरदु राम का देखहु अभै दानु तिह दीना ॥३॥१॥
Nānak biraḏ rām kā ḏekẖhu abẖai ḏān ṯih ḏīnā. ||3||1||
O Nanak, behold the way of the Lord, who bestowed the gift of fearlessness. ||3||1||
Page 901

Quote:
Originally Posted by Navneetk
Mr. Harry,

Entire Gurbani talks of Karma and re-births/incarnation/transmigration and what you state is as you prefer the things should be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambarsaria
Please quote specific shabads supporting your argument and belief. Don't just wave the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji flag as a shelter from contributing specifically.

Last edited by BhagatSingh; 25-Feb-2012 at 06:05 AM.
Reply With Quote
The following members appreciate BhagatSingh Ji for the above message.
  #94 (permalink)  
Old 25-Feb-2012, 07:15 AM
Ambarsaria's Avatar Ambarsaria Ambarsaria is offline
ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
 
Enrolled: Dec 21st, 2010
Posts: 3,265
Ambarsaria is a splendid one to beholdAmbarsaria is a splendid one to behold
Ambarsaria is a splendid one to beholdAmbarsaria is a splendid one to beholdAmbarsaria is a splendid one to beholdAmbarsaria is a splendid one to beholdAmbarsaria is a splendid one to behold
   
Adherent: Sikhi
Liked 5,473 Times in 2,397 Posts
    Nationality: Canada
Re: Is Hindu/Sikh a Valid Adherent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BhagatSingh View Post
Ok so all the other Bhagats and Brahmin Bards, total 28, out of which Bhagat Kabir ji is the most quoted in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, cannot be Vaishnav and Sikh at the same time? Fine, let's leave them aside.

That leaves 6 Guru Sahib, Mardana and Sheikh Farid ji. Let us look at their bani and consider some of the topics that are brought up.
Veer Bhagat Singh ji I am tired of commenting on poor selection of words in English translations quoted. If you plan to close your eyes, accept a given translation verbatim, then there is no discourse with you. It has to be with the original translator. If this modus you like, all the power to you.

All I know is that if you make your personal effort to understand (not just believe and quote) and post I will be happy to quote. You know that taken to the ridiculous whole of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji can be quoted based on your style. This is parroting, copycat, it is not learning from my perspective. So I will not comment on your straight quotations without you spending a moment to do your own translation. With doing we learn with copying we don't. At least that is how it works for me.

If you care to use Prof. Sahib Singh ji's philosophy of showing respect and learning from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, then you shouldn't be working on proving points as that is most wasteful. Wake up everyday, do a shabad without preconceived ideas, you will notice the difference.

Sat Sri Akal. peacesign

Last edited by Ambarsaria; 25-Feb-2012 at 10:17 AM.
Reply With Quote
The following members appreciate Ambarsaria Ji for the above message.
  #95 (permalink)  
Old 25-Feb-2012, 08:29 AM
Luckysingh's Avatar Luckysingh Luckysingh is offline
 
Enrolled: Dec 4th, 2011
Location: Vancouver
Age: 42
Posts: 1,598
Luckysingh is a splendid one to behold
Luckysingh is a splendid one to beholdLuckysingh is a splendid one to beholdLuckysingh is a splendid one to beholdLuckysingh is a splendid one to beholdLuckysingh is a splendid one to beholdLuckysingh is a splendid one to beholdLuckysingh is a splendid one to beholdLuckysingh is a splendid one to beholdLuckysingh is a splendid one to beholdLuckysingh is a splendid one to beholdLuckysingh is a splendid one to beholdLuckysingh is a splendid one to beholdLuckysingh is a splendid one to beholdLuckysingh is a splendid one to behold
   
Adherent: Church of Elvis
Liked 2,703 Times in 1,153 Posts
    Nationality: Canada
Re: Is Hindu/Sikh a Valid Adherent?

Bhagat Singh ji
I have enjoyed comparing and contrasting these shabads. Below is a briefing of what I made of them.

After studying all 5 shabads, It becomes apparent that one does not have to believe in reincarnation to achieve liberation. This is important.
But, its more a case of what could happen if you don't achieve liberation, why we are here- because countless chances to achieve have failed.

Guru Arjan Dev Ji points us in the direction that we may not have had chances to liberate in the other life forms, but through the sadh sangat we obtain human life form- one chance yet again to achieve liberation.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/37952-is-hindu-sikh-a-valid-adherent.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37952

Guru Nanak Dev Ji points that we act according to past actions and pre ordained destiny cannot be erased. - this doesn't require much elaboration.

Sins of countless reincarnations or chances are washed away when liberated -not just the sins of this life which we are aware of, there are many more from before-IS THE message I get from Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji's, He also tells again, that the human life form is when we have a better oppurtunity to achieve liberation as the capabalities of the elephant are restricted.

Guru Ramdas Ji points us at the link of karma. Being human and having this chance is the result of previous good karma? or maybe the ability that a being has to meditate on the naam due to good karma,that a stone otherwise can't attain.

Guru Amardas Ji points us towards the truth, be the truth and we will then meet with the truth OR countless reincarnations. Pre ordained destiny, again cannot be erased. However, he goes on further to mention 'Jin ka▫o pūrab likẖi▫ā ṯin saṯgur mili▫ā ā▫e'- (Those who have such pre-ordained destiny come to meet the True Guru). This being in reference to those who live the truth, realize the shabad and have their personality in the image of God's own, have a pre-ordained destiny (attained) to meet the Guru which is in contrast to when he mentions the fake pandits,scholars etc that keep getting destined into the reincarnation cycles due to their actions. So, destiny can mean either achieving liberation or cycles of reincarnation.

My gurmukhi is not that good, I can mostly do single words at a time. I have used the engraijhi translations to quote my above perceptions.

Sat kartar
Lucky Singh
Reply With Quote
The following members appreciate Luckysingh Ji for the above message.
  #96 (permalink)  
Old 25-Feb-2012, 08:50 AM
Ambarsaria's Avatar Ambarsaria Ambarsaria is offline
ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
 
Enrolled: Dec 21st, 2010
Posts: 3,265
Ambarsaria is a splendid one to beholdAmbarsaria is a splendid one to behold
Ambarsaria is a splendid one to beholdAmbarsaria is a splendid one to beholdAmbarsaria is a splendid one to beholdAmbarsaria is a splendid one to beholdAmbarsaria is a splendid one to behold
   
Adherent: Sikhi
Liked 5,473 Times in 2,397 Posts
    Nationality: Canada
Re: Is Hindu/Sikh a Valid Adherent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckysingh View Post
My gurmukhi is not that good, I can mostly do single words at a time. I have used the engraijhi translations to quote my above perceptions. Sat kartar Lucky Singh
Veer Luckysingh ji thanks for your effort.

There in lies the issue for the underlined,

Quote:
I have used the engraijhi translations to quote my above perceptions.
The translator appears overtly inclined to use translations into Yogic, transmigrational space, and so on. We all have limitations and it appears to be the key limitation of the English translator. Absolutely no question of the great general contribution. But when push comes to shove, one needs help from Punjabi and Punjabi sources.

Sat Sri Akal.
Reply With Quote
The following members appreciate Ambarsaria Ji for the above message.
  #97 (permalink)  
Old 25-Feb-2012, 08:58 AM
Luckysingh's Avatar Luckysingh Luckysingh is offline
 
Enrolled: Dec 4th, 2011
Location: Vancouver
Age: 42
Posts: 1,598
Luckysingh is a splendid one to behold
Luckysingh is a splendid one to beholdLuckysingh is a splendid one to beholdLuckysingh is a splendid one to beholdLuckysingh is a splendid one to beholdLuckysingh is a splendid one to beholdLuckysingh is a splendid one to beholdLuckysingh is a splendid one to beholdLuckysingh is a splendid one to beholdLuckysingh is a splendid one to beholdLuckysingh is a splendid one to beholdLuckysingh is a splendid one to beholdLuckysingh is a splendid one to beholdLuckysingh is a splendid one to beholdLuckysingh is a splendid one to behold
   
Adherent: Church of Elvis
Liked 2,703 Times in 1,153 Posts
    Nationality: Canada
Re: Is Hindu/Sikh a Valid Adherent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambarsaria View Post
Veer Bhagat Singh ji I am tired of commenting on poor selection of words in English translations quoted. If you plan to close your eyes, accept a given translation verbatim, then there is no discourse with you. It has to be with the original translator. If this modus you like, all the power to you.
.

Ambarsaria ji

This issue regarding the translations has been mentioned in a few posts.

I do give you my regards, for having enough knowledge in being able to rectify such translations.

But, I'm sure there are many like me that have to rely on the translations. Even by utilising these, I'm getting better at translating the gurmukhi word for word, as I always try to read the gurmukhi first, then the english translation.
Doing this I have found small discrepencies occuring occasionally,(So, I know that you have a good reason for what you are saying) and in time I will hopefully notice more.

At present, I have to go by what is available. Dr Sant S. Khalsa, Bhai Manmohan Singh, Kulbir Singh Tind, Singh Sahib Sant Khalsa, Prof Sahib Singh. Not sure if the latter ones are english translations and where.

If there is a certain one or other that you feel we maybe better equiped with or should avoid then please state.

Sat Kartar
Reply With Quote
The following member appreciates Luckysingh Ji for the above message.
  #98 (permalink)  
Old 25-Feb-2012, 09:32 AM
Ambarsaria's Avatar Ambarsaria Ambarsaria is offline
ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
 
Enrolled: Dec 21st, 2010
Posts: 3,265
Ambarsaria is a splendid one to beholdAmbarsaria is a splendid one to behold
Ambarsaria is a splendid one to beholdAmbarsaria is a splendid one to beholdAmbarsaria is a splendid one to beholdAmbarsaria is a splendid one to beholdAmbarsaria is a splendid one to behold
   
Adherent: Sikhi
Liked 5,473 Times in 2,397 Posts
    Nationality: Canada
Re: Is Hindu/Sikh a Valid Adherent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckysingh View Post
.

Ambarsaria ji

This issue regarding the translations has been mentioned in a few posts.

I do give you my regards, for having enough knowledge in being able to rectify such translations.

But, I'm sure there are many like me that have to rely on the translations. Even by utilising these, I'm getting better at translating the gurmukhi word for word, as I always try to read the gurmukhi first, then the english translation.
Doing this I have found small discrepencies occuring occasionally,(So, I know that you have a good reason for what you are saying) and in time I will hopefully notice more.

At present, I have to go by what is available. Dr Sant S. Khalsa, Bhai Manmohan Singh, Kulbir Singh Tind, Singh Sahib Sant Khalsa, Prof Sahib Singh. Not sure if the latter ones are english translations and where.

If there is a certain one or other that you feel we maybe better equiped with or should avoid then please state.

Sat Kartar
Veer try the following combo from srigranth.org,

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gur...1&p=1&fb=0&k=1

What you will notice is that in most parts Dr. Khalsa ji has used Bhai. Manmohan Singh jis Teeka but with subtle nuances in Yogic, transcendental, etc., fashion.

Whenever I do any exercise I read the Gurbani, then Prof. Sahib Singh ji, then Bhai. Manmohan Singh ji and sometimes Dr. Khalsa ji.

Do I consider any to be perfect? My humble answer with due respect is, NO.

Am I perfect? Probably the least perfect of any compared to such good people like Dr. Khalsa ji, Bhai Manmohan Singh ji and Prof. Sahib Singh ji with monumental works to their credit.

Following not generalizations but I notice and I watch for when I try to study and post,

  • Bhai Manmohan Singh ji uses some Punjabi words that I may not understand
  • Dr. Khalsa ji already stated about Karma; re-incarnation; chanting; meditate; lotus feet; sacrifice to you; etc.
  • Prof. Sahib Singh ji writes in style of teaching versus clear translation. It allows you understand but if you want to do translation you have to verbalize what you understood. Many times straightforward but definitely quite different other times.
Prof. Sahib Singh ji's writing style is of great humility and respect. Sometimes it creates the inferiority complex translation where one puts self down unnecessarily as a way to show respect. So I watch for this.

I also use dictionaries at srigranth.org which have Mahan Kosh by Kahan Singh Nabha ji.

For example the basic message of the Shabad Bhagat Singh ji quoted is not much different from,

Quote:
After death, cremation we become part of much. Some grasses, some trees, some plants, some microorganisms, some life forms will eat parts of what we become (say grass), give milk and sustain and make another child strong. Veer that is not re-incarnation, that is basic creation.

Let us also remeber the following,
Quote:
Gyani Jarnail Singh ji has also mentioned something very fundamental in the re-incarnation debate if I don't paraphrase it wrongly, " We re-incarnate when we in this life act like the attributes of one of the other life forms". It is a great obeservation to dwell on.
Let us also remember a wonderful post by Tejwant Singh ji and I paraphrase how one of his daughters stated,
Quote:
We are reborn many times in our lives as every time we change a little.
We cannot approach Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji for answers as a recipe book but an enabler through grace of which we may find answers ourselves and for ourselves.

Sat Sri Akal and I hope above is of some clarity.

Last edited by Ambarsaria; 25-Feb-2012 at 09:41 AM.
Reply With Quote
The following members appreciate Ambarsaria Ji for the above message.
  #99 (permalink)  
Old 25-Feb-2012, 10:03 AM
prakash.s.bagga's Avatar prakash.s.bagga prakash.s.bagga is offline
 
Enrolled: Aug 29th, 2010
Age: 63
Posts: 1,515
prakash.s.bagga has a spectacular aura aboutprakash.s.bagga has a spectacular aura aboutprakash.s.bagga has a spectacular aura aboutprakash.s.bagga has a spectacular aura aboutprakash.s.bagga has a spectacular aura aboutprakash.s.bagga has a spectacular aura aboutprakash.s.bagga has a spectacular aura aboutprakash.s.bagga has a spectacular aura aboutprakash.s.bagga has a spectacular aura aboutprakash.s.bagga has a spectacular aura aboutprakash.s.bagga has a spectacular aura about
   
Adherent: Sikhism
Blog Entries: 1
Liked 1,107 Times in 645 Posts
    Nationality: India
Re: Is Hindu/Sikh a Valid Adherent?

  Donate Today!  
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanwaljit Singh View Post
Prakash Singh ji, Gurbani is not a collection of different messages, but one theme. It could be that our understanding of the message is two sided coin, which we also refer to as duality.
That means Gurbanee messages are Dual in understanding.This is what is most important to understand.We have to see the ultimate message which is out of Duality.
Prakash.S.Bagga
Reply With Quote
The following member appreciates prakash.s.bagga Ji for the above message.
   Click Here to Donate Now!
Related Topics...
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Inter-Religion Marriage Not Valid Under HMA: HC Archived_Member16 Controversies 26 23-May-2011 02:44 AM
OT: (Waaaay OT...) Valid Bloomberg Sector Code? (PeteCresswell) Information Technology 2 28-Jul-2006 08:13 AM
The value you entered isn't valid for this field - Error Message R Marko Information Technology 4 28-Jul-2006 08:08 AM
The Hindu : International : Sikh protesters disrupt wedding in U.K. (The Hindu News) Neutral Singh Sikh News 0 30-Jun-2005 16:24 PM


Support Us!
Become a Promoter!
Gurfateh ji, you can become a SPN Promoter by Donating as little as $10 each month. With limited resources & high operational costs, your donations make it possible for us to deliver a quality website and spread the teachings of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, to serve & uplift humanity. Every contribution counts. Donate Generously. Gurfateh!
ReplyPost New Topic In This Forum Stay Connected to Sikhism, Click Here to Register Now!

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

» Active Discussions
Research Shows NFL...
By linzer
Yesterday 06:55 AM
0 Replies, 66 Views
Fools Who Wrangle Over...
21-Nov-2014 23:49 PM
1,316 Replies, 157,366 Views
Lost Treasures of the...
21-Nov-2014 08:55 AM
0 Replies, 123 Views
Why we celebrate Guru...
20-Nov-2014 18:18 PM
29 Replies, 1,142 Views
French Honor for British...
16-Nov-2014 03:48 AM
0 Replies, 181 Views
What should be the AIM...
14-Nov-2014 16:11 PM
25 Replies, 1,072 Views
First Turbaned Sikh...
12-Nov-2014 03:02 AM
5 Replies, 507 Views
Is Sikh Philosophy...
29-Oct-2014 20:07 PM
7 Replies, 581 Views
Destination Wedding in...
29-Oct-2014 19:41 PM
2 Replies, 317 Views
Mitee Muslaman Kee
27-Oct-2014 07:02 AM
10 Replies, 764 Views
» Books You Should Read...
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 06:18 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2 Copyright 2004-2015, All Rights Reserved. Sikh Philosophy Network


Page generated in 0.81122 seconds with 33 queries