Are Brahmgyanis For Real?

The very fact that I receive email all the time about this question means there is Jagartee... an awakening among the Sikhs. We have been fooled all this while simply because we allowed ourselves to be fooled. We can be fooled only by those we "trust"... a stranger wouldn't be able to fool us... and those we trusted are our own.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/30077-are-brahmgyanis-for-real.html

We learnt no lesson from our Gurus... cannot we see so clearly that our Gurus in spite of being Nirankaar... never even used their Names... much less titles... they used NUMBERS... Mehla 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 9. Again and again they addressed themselves as Neech, Neechan andar neech jaat... dhadee of Akal Purakh, Dog of the Creator... they sang with people like Bhai Mardana Ji, they ate with people like Bhai Lalo Ji... they traveled on FOOT like the common people. But when we are reminded of this... such a storm is raised... just look at the huge outcry over the Babbu Mann song... Ek Baba Nanak see jis ne turkeh saree dunia ghaah tee.. EK aaj Babeh han jisne LAL battee audi gaddee te laatee !! This song depicting REALITY hurt where it matters... hence the LOUD CRIES of PROTEST and death threats.

Gurbani is crystal clear. Even the GURU never attach any TITLES to his name... but our "parcharaks attach so many titles... each more grandiose than the other... Brahmgyani, Pooran Brahmgyani, Sri 1008 Brahmgyani, Maha Purash, Maha Purakh, Gurmatt Maartand and so on and so on... ALL 100% of our GREATEST SIKHS in Sikh history are BHAI... but modern Punjab is as full of Maha Gyanis and MahaBrahmgyanis as numerous as the SAND grains on the beaches of Hawaii. But then Gurbani declares so clearly... Rahio SANT me Toll... SAADH bahutereh dittheh !! a Highly Realised Aatma like Bhagat Kabir Ji, who has so much Gurbani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji... is saying that I FAILED TO FIND EVEN ONE "SANT" ...but saw many many FAKE SAADHS... BHEKHIS... but we ordinary Sikhs today can see Sants in THOUSANDS ?? How can that be ?? Have we become so highly realised souls even ABOVE Bhagat Kabir Ji ?? Have our eyes become so sharp ??

GURU JI gave us the GURBANI... the PIO Daddeh da Khazanah (The Treasure of Our Ancestors)... to read... Vichaar... ponder over... understand and APPLY in our daily Lives so that we can become KHALSA... but we ABDICATED this responsibility... we gave up our role of GUARDIANS for the Khazanah (Treasure)... the AMRIT of GURBANI... we placed the MILK in the care of BHEKHIS... and then these BHEKHIS drank all the MILK... and gave us "water"... and told us... ONLY we can DRINK MILK... only we UNDERSTAND Gurbani... its too difficult for you... you just listen to me banging on the Chamta and Dholki... sing along this two liners, Ucah dar babeh nanak Da... Mein Sobha sunn ke aiya... ucah dar babeh nanak da... its SIMPLE and EASY... Gurbani is sanskrit... its brij bhasha, its so difficult... its so sacred... it must be kept wrapped up at all times... blah blah blah... YOU JUST matha tek as much of your earnings to me as Kaar SEWA and go home... WE will take care of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Let us Brahmgyanis do all this kirtan... kathas etc.. its too difficult for you... you go earn money...

After a few decades... the SIKHS cant do any of the simplest jobs without these paid "Gyanis... Brahmgyanis... etc... Any "need"... sickness... happiness... new house... death... etc. etc. SIKHS go RUNNING around for a GYANI JI... to do parkash... ardass, kirtan... samapati... parshaad... bhog... a SIKH CANNOT DO anything at all. THIS behaviour is in Direct DISOBEDIENCE to GURU JI... He TOLD us... NO Priests... no paid brahmins... a SIKH is in DIRECT touch with WAHEGURU !! But we forgot all that...and NOW the BILLION DEMAND MILK..and..Badaams, keju nuts..desi ghee, best shampoos, best soaps, best cars, best bedrooms in the house, and THOUSANDS in CASH..to perform akhand paath..ardass..kirtan..and we grumble..but we pay !! because we DONT KNOW HOW any more !!! And we PAY..even though we KNOW many don't do the paath..they skip pages by the bundle..they don't do ardass... they do kirtan of Kachi banis... they never come or come late... or leave early... they rush through to go to other programmes..samagams....we have no choice...
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=30077

And we became so awaeselleh..IGNORANT..that now we get Fairy tales..Tall tales..kathas full of Waddeh baba ji right in front of GURU GRANTH JI and Guru nanak JI Sahib..a Mere INSAAN is being addressed as WADDEH Baba Ji..Maha Purakh Ji..and we keep quiet..we hear that there are TUNNELS in the Himalays that Lead to Special Sarovars in the Tibetan Mountains where Shaheed Singhs like baba deep Singh Ji, Bhai mani Singh ji , bhai taru Singh ji, baba Banda Singh ji etc are all WAITING... wearing just kacheras and dastaars... ready to March through the Tunnel and emerge into PUNJAB to Make KHALSA RAAJ up to Mecca Medina...as Foretold by Guru nanak ji in Karnee Namah!! Guru Gobind Singh ji in "his PREVIOUS LIFE" di penance but ON THIS EARTH (Hemkunt)...and Now these shaheeds are all SOULS without bodies..but they wear kacheras, dastaars, live in the tibetan mountaisn, eat from the Sarovar...and have weapons they used before..and to RETURN to earth they will use this Tunnel and not be born again...

And so the Nataki chapters will go on and on..until we wake up..and take Guru ji advise..and begin to READ Gurbani..vichaar gurbani..understand Gurbani..and apply it...then and then ONLY will our lives Change for the better...otherwise be prepared to be ENTERTAINED.......Hollywoods Avataar in the Cinema..and the Sant Jis Chaubis Avataars in the Gurdawra. WE DESERVE what we GET.

 
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__________________
We hear with our ears but we listen with our minds.
Hearing the sound of a mantra is one thing - listening to it is another !

The first part of the post reminds me of the last part of this clip, Monty Python's The Life of Brian:

We learnt no lesson from our Gurus... cannot we see so clearly that our Gurus in spite of being Nirankaar... never

I dont understan what you mean by that gurus were Nirakaar. Is it mean that the gurus were not human? Nirakaar is used for God if I can understand the bani. No human can be Nirakaar.

We sikhs believe that we are not Hindus. If we are not Hindus then why any Sikh can be Brahmgyani? Brahma is Hindu devta. W not call them Nanak gyani? We canot have it both ways not be Hindu yet be Brahmgyani.
Many people dont like to call Harmander because it means Hari/s Vishnu mander. Many are calling Darwar Sahib. Darwar is muslim name not sikhs. But we should not use Hindu's name but it is ok to call Darwar Sahib.
It mean the gurus who named it Harmander wrong. Can gurus be wrong?
If we want to save the Sikhism we should get rid of the stupid rituals and idol worship. We are just two face condeming and worship like Hindus.

Thank you very much Gyani ji for raising such an intersting topic. Please dont be offended, I respect you very

much and your thoughts.

But to start with, I would like to know when and where you got the title "Giyani Ji" and how is it different from

title "Brahmgyani"

Now, continuing on the topic, i would say

NO Leader is a leader, without any followers, that means followers give birth to leaders

similarly

These sants, brahmgyani's Maha purkhs are mere Human beings, provided Blind faith followers dont follow them.


One man (brahmgyani, sant, mahapurkh in this case) being smart to fool around can be justified, but how can we

justify millions of followers of these smart men, who accept to be fooled.


With the spread of internet, and other elctronic media, Sikh sangat is surely getting educated on thier own

religion, and it surely can be termed as Jaagriti which is good for Sikh, Sikhi and Sikh way of life. But we

should also be aware that anti-Gurmat elements also have same level of access to the media. This can only be

balanced through competetive efforts by Gurmat elements so that we have positive outcome in the end.

We should never expect that these anti-Gurmat elements are gonna die out with time. In my opinion, it is God's

way of maintaing the balance. If anti-gurmat is gone, we loose the challenge and thus new chances of learning

from life experinces will also disappear. So anti-Gurmat is just as good as snake's poison is used to create

antibodies to cure snake bite. Only diffrence is how we handle/use that poison.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=30077
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=30077


The last point is about harmander sahib, Darbar sahib, and other names from different languages. My opinion is

that a source of light spreads light, it should not really matter to us what name we give to it and in which

language, if we can use that light to explore and discover new avenues it is serving the purpose or we can keep

on fighting and waste time arguing my language is better than yours. Choice is ours.

Our Guru ji's used all kinds of languages to spread the divine word, and there are proofs of that in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, so why

are we fighting on names and languages?


In the end I would say

"When Faith becomes blind faith.. rituals are born"


Bhul Chuk Maaf ji

"Almighty leads pure ones, Victory belongs to Almighty"

Rupinder Singh

PS: ha ha ha I used smilies with full heart

Rupinder Singh Ji.
Gurfateh.

Respect begets respect..its mutual. I love the Name your parents gave you.

1. The Gyani in my name is NOT the type associated with Brahmgyani....its a simple Academic Degree _ Hons in Punjabi Langauge similar to BA ons..BSC Hons, MBBS etc etc. Anyone willing to spend about three years studying Punjabi, Linguistics, Sikh religion, girmatt, gurbani, poetry, prose etc can get this Degree from Punjab University. Many thousands have it and the BEST ones like Gyani Ditt Singh of Singh Sabha lehr, Gyani Hira Singh dard etc got it from Punjab University Lahore before the Partition.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=30077

2. Secondly..today..any person who has the remotest connection with a Gurdawara..be it playing Tabla, kirtan, paath, etc etc is also called a GYANI. Even a utensil washing sevaddar may be addressed as Gyani ji...and also anyone who looks remotely..religious...gol puggh, chola, gatra kirpan etc...also get this "title".

3. Harmander...as used in GURBANI of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was first used by GURU AMARDASS JI....as in "harmander Har sajjiah...this is for the HUMAN BODY. Our SREER is made by Waheguru to RESIDE WITHIN. Its HIS mandir.

Those who call the Harmander sahib constructed by Guru ramdass Ji, completed by Guru Arjun ji for the paraksh of AAD GRANTH (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji) as "Har(i) mandir are WRONG..there is no BIHAREE..its a SIHAREE which denotes Capital Har...for CREATOR. Its is Not Vishnus mandir..or the Hindu haris mandir...its named after the CREATOR. (But DONT make the mistake of beleiving that the CREATOR ONLY RESIDES in harmandar sahib Amrtisar..then you will find it very difficult to reoncile yourself with what Guru nanak ji went to MECCA to tell the Kazis..that ALLAH doesnt RESIDE in just One Place !! In GURMATT..the CREATOR is EVERYWHERE.

Darbar means COURT..and since its our GURU thta is in COURT..its perfectly OK to call any place where GURU JI is Paraksh as Sacha Patshah as DARBAAR SAHIB.

5. Your point about the Smart oen "brahmgyani" fooling ..BUT why millions can be fooled ?
Guru nanak ji went to Hardwaar....MILLIOINS who were fooled were there..
Till Today..even MORE MILLIONS who are still fooled..gather there every 12 years to stop the evils of a natural happening Eclipse of the Sun. Its the 3rd millineum..yet billions beleive the eclipse is a bad thing...must bathe in the Ganga to stop its influence.. Guru nanak jis teachings...presence...had little effect...so NUMBERS are no proof of anything...in fact the greater the number..more will be FOOLED..becasue they beleive...OH..so many CANNOT BE WRONG !! ha Ha that is precisely Right..the MORE a person can FOOL..the BIGGER he becomes.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=30077

Thank you for a refreshing view...

Thank you very much Giani ji,
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=30077

Well explained

Thanks

Rupinder Singh

S S AKAL GIANI JI.

Practically I am out of words to add or express myself with words to appreciate your most open facts to wake up our community at large.


We have been increasingly made so much dependent that only priest we need to do path because he knows marayadas or other rituals and prayers on behalf of us will go more faster to Akal Purkh where as our basic teaching has been that Sikh can directly pray to Akal purkh than having any mediators.

We stopped every morning reading a simple Jap Ji sahib path which is so simple to understand by all with basic high school level education or no educations if some one just listen from many sources...

We became all in the hands of self made Babas and our leaders failed in their leadership to stand up to the fundamental Principal of Guru Nanak Dev ji coming eradicate all cast system and sent a message to the world that all human race is one except many are known by their deeds.

Then GURU Gobidh SUNGH JIi laid a final stones to eradicate the a cast system by inviting all to join SIKH faith regardless of any color,cast,gender and made them KHALSA(PURE ONE) .


The title was added as a SINGH to people who accepted the call of GURU GOBINDH SINGH JI to join to be known as KHALSA (pure one).

We reversed back again to cast system by adding surnames and start differentiating our selves calling other Majbi Singh or that by sur-names.This is the pictures today and another one is just emerging by Sehej Dhari which we never heard before.
Even Guru Dawars are being separated on the base of who goes their based on cast system.

We have been adopting the same cancer (cast system) which discriminated count less human beings by Brahman Wad practices.

Great awareness is needed to all Sikhs especially in the urban area ,still people do not know what is the power of casting VOTE in any democratic society.
To elect a wrong leader the society is bound to get bad leadership and get bad decision to protect our right and life styles..

When public elected that leader got in power, passes the law which are not what public agree upon,then the basic understanding to be careful casting any vote to get him elected again.n.
This is democratic procedure.

Instead what is happening in illiterate societies some of the self made leader gets the opportunity to lead the grieving people to large protest (MORCHA) to even to the extent they can sacrifices their lives if they are not heard by the democratically elected leaders.They will fight like they are fighting against Mugal Forcre.

All exercise of right can be exercised when the next election comes to elect the right leaders with his past performances

IF THERE IS ENOUGH AWARENESS TAUGHT BY LEARNING A BAD CHOICE TO ELECT A BAD LEADERS. Every one will cast their vote more carefully to the leaders who has a platform what the constituents looking for.

Then so called self made leaders will create a protest march (MORCHA) agaist the same leader who was rightly elected by same people who are ready to sacrifice their lives to oust him non democratic ways by taking laws in their hands as if they are under MUGAl RAJ.

Politician will be the last person to educate the masses the power of voting which can topple any government without firing a single bullet.

Awareness -Awareness .

We need every where so all Sikhs or followers of GURU NANAK DEV JI 's to understand SIKH philosophy and teachings.

I have not seen a single religion or faith where people pray every day for all humanity like SIKHS when they pray anywhere ,any time.

-TERE BHANE SARBAT KA BHALLA "sikhism"

-BIGGEST DEMOCRACIES HAS RULES AND LAW ENSHRINED IN THEIR
CHARTER OF RIGHTS THAT ALL CITIZENS HAS EQUAL RIGHTS OF FREE
SPEECH,ORIGINS,COLORS GENDERS.CAST SYSTEM.

-GURU NANA DEV JI ENSHRINED ALL THESE RIGHTS 500 YEARS
BACK "Sikhism".

Jaspi

BHULL CHUK MAF.

Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji,

Excellent post, and firm response to the derawad/babawad that has been spreading like a virus for years and will carry on due to ignorance of Sikh's about their own faith and teaching!

The biggest thing is getting people out of the mental attitude that they "cant understand" Gurbani or that a man in a white pag and outfit has a superior presense on earth than them.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=30077

I saw this video yesterday about a Singh who is trying to take Mann Pehova to court but these guys have contacts in high places so, are untouchable in Punjab. It was quite distressing to see what this so called baba and his chela's have done to this Singh... (Also, this is the same baba that was given a clear chit from our good old jathedars from the SGPC - another comforting piece of news - not!)


Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=30077
God bless all with common sense to not be fooled by these pekhi's!

Avtar Singh

SSA,
1.Is it possible to assertain the proper meaning for all these terms, eg. giani, brahmgiani, mahapursh, & etc?
2.Is it possible to test for and or against these terms?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=30077
Much Obliged 4 the Thread.
Thx.