Sabad and Naam (Word and Name)

Vahiguru Jee Ka Khalsa
Vahiguru Jee Ke Fateh !

I would be grateful for learned members' thoughts on the distinction in Gurbani between Sabad/Word and Naam/Name.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/26952-sabad-and-naam-word-and-name.html

Many thanks,
Jitinder Singh

Vahiguru Jee Ka Khalsa
Vahiguru Jee Kee Fateh !
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Jitender ji

Here is a link on the topic from a very good web site. From gurbani.org
Shabad, Gurbani, Naam - What Is It?

From the blog on the same site, these thoughts:

• ਭਗਤ ਜਨਾ ਕੀ ਊਤਮ ਬਾਣੀ ਜੁਗਿ ਜੁਗਿ ਰਹੀ ਸਮਾਈ ॥੨੦॥: Bhagat janaa kee ootam baanee jug jug rahee samaaee ||20||: The Bani, the Word of the humble devotees is the most sublime and exalted; it prevails throughout the ages (i.e., it is valid for all times). ||20|| (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 909).
• ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਇਸੁ ਜਗ ਮਹਿ ਚਾਨਣੁ...: Gurbani is jagg mahi chaanan...: The Gurbani is the Light (Infinite Wisdom, Giaan, etc.,) to illuminate this world ( that shows one the right path or way in the life - ਜੀਵਨ ਦੇ ਰਸਤੇ ਵਿਚ ਚਾਨਣ ਕਰਦੀ ਹੈ)...(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 67).
• ਤੇਰੇ ਬਚਨ ਅਨੂਪ ਅਪਾਰ ਸੰਤਨ ਆਧਾਰ ਬਾਣੀ ਬੀਚਾਰੀਐ ਜੀਉ ॥: Terae bachan anoop apaar santan aadhaar baanee beechaareeai jeeou ||: (O Lord) Your Bani is Incomparable and Infinite. It is the Support of the Saints, therefore, they keep contemplating (ਵਿਚਾਰ - Vichaar) it (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 80).
• ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੁ ਨਿਹਚਲੁ ਸਦਾ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਹਿ ॥: Gur sabad nihachal sadaa sach samaahi ||: The Gur-Shabad is eternal and unchanging. Through it, one merges in the Truth (ਸਦਾ ਕਾਇਮ ਰਹਿਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਵਿਚ) (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 842).

Enjoy your search.

This is another article from a site that I find gives comprehensive information, in a clear way.

Reflections on Shabad as Guru Everlasting | Gateway to Sikhism
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=26952

And on SPN - there was a similar discussion. See
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=26952

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat...ference-7.html

From our respected forum member Soul_Jyot ji there is this selection of Gurbani. Please see the attachment.

Vahiguru Jee Ka Khalsa
Vahiguru Jee Kee Fateh !

I am grateful to Narayan Kaur Jee for kindly supplying information on Sabad and Naam.

However, I have read many such articles and explanations before and they do not quite hit the mark for me. Can it really be that Sabad and Naam mean the same thing? Some people go so far as to say that Bani also means the same, i.e. Sabad=Naam=Bani. I don't see how this can be the case, or how the Guru would would permit such ambiguity for words that are clearly different in their meaning.

The fact is that Sabad=Word, Naam=Name, Bani=Hymn. Let us take an example from panna 687 of the Guru:

DnwsrI mhlw 1 CMq
dhhanaasaree mehalaa 1 shha(n)tha
Dhanaasaree, First Mehla, Chhant:

<> siqgur pRswid ]
ik oa(n)kaar sathigur prasaadh ||
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

qIriQ nwvx jwau qIrQu nwmu hY ]
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=26952
theerathh naavan jaao theerathh naam hai ||
Why should I bathe at sacred shrines of pilgrimage? The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is the sacred shrine of pilgrimage.

qIrQu sbd bIcwru AMqir igAwnu hY ]
theerathh sabadh beechaar a(n)thar giaan hai ||
My sacred shrine of pilgrimage is spiritual wisdom within, and contemplation on the Word of the Shabad.


In two consecutive lines we see Sabad and Naam and the Guru is clear on the distinction (although the Bhai Sant Singh translation is clumsy - to be the subject of a separate post). Naam is the thing that a Sikh must be immersed in (like immersing in a teerath), whereas Sabad is the thing that a Sikh must contemplate in order to attain understanding and thereby Naam.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=26952

I believe this deeper understanding of the distinction between Sabad and Naam is crucial. Sabad and Naam are not the same thing. When first introduced to the word "vahiguru" it is a sabad, a word. Your only knowledge of this Sabad is that it means "wonderful Guru", i.e. it causes you to praise the Guru. But further beechar/contemplation of this Sabad - carefully reading the Guru, understanding the meaning, thinking on it, acting on it - gives you more familiarity with the Sabad. You like the Sabad more and more, you come to love the Sabad, to adore the Sabad. No longer is it a Sabad alone, but a Naam. Your increased closeness and familiarity with the Sabad now fills you with deep feeling so that you now refer to it as Naam. Just as the name of your child is not just a word to you, when you hear his/her name it triggers the love you feel for them.

Sabad is therefore most precious, for it opens the door to The One; continual beechar on Sabad makes it Naam, for we are now filled with deep feeling for The One.

- Jitinder Singh

Vahiguru Jee Ka Khalsa
Vahiguru Jee Kee Fateh !

Actually jitinder ji

I agree with you. And I disagree with you. In my own humble opinion there are distinctions however subtle. Naam and Shabad are synonymous, but is that the same as "equal in meaning?" Does not Naam mean more than name, but identity as well? Naam, the Identity of Truth, the Almighty Power, the timeless and eternal Truth, the indestructible and formless, all pervading Truth, the Truth that is self-existent. It could be that Naam embraces everything including Bani and Shabad. Shabad is what is spoken, read and heard of Truth speaking the Truth. Then, in that way they are also the same. Let's think about it, think out loud.

I have added since last posting this. The translation of the tuk adds to what is actually there. It is the theory of the translator that Naam is Name, when in fact it can/may go beyond the meaning, Name.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=26952

qIriQ nwvx jwau qIrQu nwmu hY ]
theerathh naavan jaao theerathh naam hai ||
Why should I bathe at sacred shrines of pilgrimage? The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is the sacred shrine of pilgrimage
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=26952

With the translation creating the equation between Naam and Name of the Lord. Thanks for your input.

This is a very interesting observation. One problem we create for ourselves is the desire to seek a rigid meaning when looking at spiritual terminology. We forget that as mere humans, there are constraints on both our knowledge and vocabulary. Even on known terminology we extract different meanings depending upon our culture, faith, background, values, social and political inclinations and beliefs. What chance do we have to conclude on abstract and spiritual matters? The interpretation sometimes is as good as the knowledge and kamai (spiritual status) of the individual concerned.

Sabad (or shabad) and Naam in wider contexts can be synonyms but the following tuk might help in drawing a distinction.

ਸਬਦੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਧੁਨਿ ਚੇਲਾ॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 943}
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=26952
Sabaḏ guru suraṯ ḏẖun cẖelaa.
Sbd gurU hY, myrI suriq dI Dun Bwv itkwau, ies Sbd gurU dw is`K hY [
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=26952

Sabad is my Guru and, my spiritual consciousness when attuned to the Sabad brings about equipoise (tikau - sehaj avastha) in the realm of my mind and soul. Thus, my consciousness becomes the disciple of the Sabad Guru. The attuned mind (consciousness) as prepared (trained) by the Sabad Guru immerses the soul into the Ocean of Naam.

We may also say the Sabad is the ‘ship’ which enables to keep us afloat (by burning our ego and other negative traits) in the bhav sagar of maya and this ship powered by the fuel of Naam will carry us across to our destination ‘the Ocean of Truth’.

The reference given by Jitinder ji is also excellent and helps in distinguishing between the two:

theerathh naavan jaao theerathh naam hai; theerathh sabadh beechaar a(n)thar giaan hai (687)

Whilst Naam is the sacred shrine of pilgrimage, sabad is the ‘tool’ that reveals the wisdom within the inner self (ocean of our of soul) which guides us towards this shrine.

I also concur with Narayanjot Kaur ji’s observation that “It is the theory of the translator that Naam is Name, when in fact it can/may go beyond the meaning, Name.”

I am sure other similar distinctions may be made.

Humbly

Rajinder Singh ‘Arshi’

arshi ji

I am glad you posted this:

ਸਬਦੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਧੁਨਿ ਚੇਲਾ॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 943}
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=26952
Sabaḏ guru suraṯ ḏẖun cẖelaa.
Sbd gurU hY, myrI suriq dI Dun Bwv itkwau, ies Sbd gurU dw is`K hY [

Sabad is my Guru and, my spiritual consciousness when attuned to the Sabad brings about equipoise (tikau - sehaj avastha) in the realm of my mind and soul. Thus, my consciousness becomes the disciple of the Sabad Guru. The attuned mind (consciousness) as prepared (trained) by the Sabad Guru immerses the soul into the Ocean of Naam.

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=26952
I was trying to think of a line of Gurbani to make this point. Sat Nam !

Vahiguru Jee Ka Khalsa
Vahiguru Jee Kee Fateh !

Thank you kindly to Narayanjot Kaur Jee and Rajinder Singh 'Arshi' Jee for your replies. Most enlightening.

I agree that we end up hitting the outer limits of how mere human vocabulary can cope with explaining experiences with Akal Purkh. Still, it is remarkable to what lengths the Guru has gone to try anyway. Guru knows that human words are crude implements for conveying spiritual matters, yet Guru wrote in poetic form and set this to beautiful raags so that the mood/tone/timbre/feeling would be understood. And Guru takes extreme care to be precise with the words through the use of laga-matraan (grammar using Gurmukhi notations - siharee etc.).
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=26952

You will not find a more beautiful form of words than poetry, and you will not find anything better to accompany poetry than music. With Guru having taken such extreme care and effort to convey precise meaning of words, to be understood in the mood dictated by the prescribed music, it behoves us to take the time to understand correctly.

And therein lies the danger with translations. Absolutely necessary though translations are, we can see the pitfalls that lie when due care is not taken. I will post separately about translations.

Finally, may I humbly encourage us all to start and end any posts with the full Fateh proclomation. Let us not rob ourselves of the chance to say Vahiguru four times.

- Jitinder Singh

Vahiguru Jee Ka Khalsa
Vahiguru Jee Kee Fateh !