The Five K's, Why

tony · #1 (**permalink**) 09-Apr-2009, 03:32 AM

Dear all
I have been on the forum for several years now and joined to find answers, Alot have been aswered but the one that still remains unanswered is the five K's. When I've seen threads on this topic Ive read them with interest but still no one has ever answered it, Many have tried but still no real answer. the hair one seems to always be that its a Hukam but no one says why Guru Gobing Singh ji gave it and the same with the rest of them. Nine Guru ji's didnt say we needed them, one did, Its not in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ive been told that untill I accept them it will be a stumbling block to my spirituality, But why. I'm told that I cant be a full Sikh till I have them, Why. Could some one please tell me what each one is for and why Guru Gobing Singh ji thought that we needed them and to what purpose they serve to day please.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/24540-the-five-ks-why.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24540
Tony

bawaj · #2 (**permalink**) 09-Apr-2009, 06:07 AM

There is no place where Guru Gobind Singh ji has explained comprehensively why the 5ks. It's something I have contemplated as well. There is a very good explanation in Kushwant Singh's book History of Sikhs Vol.1. Here is the jist:
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24540

Kesh: leave your body untouched as it was created; holy people would keep long hair during those times and the Guru's idea was to have saintly soldiers (Pius, just...etc).
Kanga: to keep yourself neat and clean. Living in the jungle you cant carry a cosmetic set with you so the best solution is the have a comb in you turban.
Kada: the kada in Guru's time were much larger and they serve two purposes: as a protecive armour for you right (i.e) your sword wielding hand; And when you do take out the kirpan the kada acts as a reminder to always be just in your action.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24540
Kachera: Shorts... makes it easy during war... i.e you can quiclkly get on the horse.
Kirpan: a sikh should protect against injustice.

These are convential definitions that have been explained by sikh scholars but you are right to point out its absense in the guru granth sahib. But then again there is very little written by guru gobind singh in the adi granth. His contributions lie in the zafarnamas and the dasam granth.

Sat Nam · #3 (**permalink**) 09-Apr-2009, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony

Dear all
I have been on the forum for several years now and joined to find answers, Alot have been aswered but the one that still remains unanswered is the five K's. When I've seen threads on this topic Ive read them with interest but still no one has ever answered it, Many have tried but still no real answer. the hair one seems to always be that its a Hukam but no one says why Guru Gobing Singh ji gave it and the same with the rest of them. Nine Guru ji's didnt say we needed them, one did, Its not in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ive been told that untill I accept them it will be a stumbling block to my spirituality, But why. I'm told that I cant be a full Sikh till I have them, Why. Could some one please tell me what each one is for and why Guru Gobing Singh ji thought that we needed them and to what purpose they serve to day please.
Tony

The reason for the 5 K's is as follows:
we keep our hair because it gives us energy & strength. Hair will only grow so far and then stop - your body requires nutrients to regrow hair should you cut it.
It's hard to understand the 5 K's without an element of humility and desire to surrender- and how to get that is a whole other matter.
I hope this helps. Sat Nam

vsgrewal48895 · #4 (**permalink**) 09-Apr-2009, 23:37 PM

Dear Tony Ji,

I have discussed this sensitive subject in my post of Sikh Symbols but the minority has no bibliographic evidence and the silent majority is just the observer as in any political or religious situation. I will be posting a article on this silent majority. There are 8115 members of this forum. On the discussion side there are only 15 or so members who discuss and debate and spinning the thread taking it from discussion of meat to clean shavers etc. Now you can calculate the silent majority. They think that 5 K's is the end of the means as far as spirituality is concerned. You talk of internal filth or virtues they go on to hairs. You talk of hairs they go on to Amrit. You talk of Amrit they go on to turban. You talk of turban they go on to sword. I have posted all these one by one and each thread as per AGGS is nothing but virtue. Most of the debaters have 5 K's and two of us are with out Bana.
It is true that those who make a living by reading AGGS have more knowledge of it. I have read AGGS from all 1430 pages 60 + times over a period of 62 years. How many debaters have read AGGS and how many times?
Spirituality has nothing to do with any religion. It is to find Akal Purkh and mental poise in Higher Self by lifting the veil of Lower instincts-one of these is ego/Houmai. The later does not let the discussion any where;

First Swaeeya, DG, Page, 712

ਜਾਗਤਿ ਜੋਤ ਜਪੈ ਨਿਸ ਬਾਸੁਰ ਏਕ ਬਿਨਾ ਮਨ ਨੈਕ ਨ ਆਨੈ ॥ ਪੂਰਨ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਪ੍ਰਤੀਤ ਸਜੈ ਬ੍ਰਤ ਗੋਰ ਮੜੀ ਮਟ ਭੂਲ ਨ ਮਾਨੈ ॥ਤੀਰਥ ਦਾਨ ਦਇਆ ਤਪ ਸੰਜਮ ਏਕ ਬਿਨਾ ਨਹ ਏਕ ਪਛਾਨੈ ॥ ਪੂਰਨ ਜੋਤ ਜਗੈ ਘਟ ਮੈ ਤਬ ਖਾਲਸ ਤਾਹਿ ਨਖਾਲਸ ਜਾਨੈ ॥
Jaagat Joat Japai Nis Basar Ayk Bina Man Naik Na Aanai.Pooran Prem Partit Sajai Barat Gor Marhi Matt Bhool Na Manai.Ttheerathh Daan Dayaa Tap Sanjam Ayk Binaa Neh Ayk Pashhaanai.Pooran joth jagai ghatt mai thab khaalas thaahi nakhaalas jaanai.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24540

He, who remembers the ever-awakened Light throughout night and day and does not bring anyone else in the mind, and practices his vow with whole hearted affection and does not believe in even by oversight, the graves, Hindu monuments and monasteries; and does not recognize anyone else except One God, not even the bestowal of charities, performance of merciful acts, austerities and restraint on pilgrim-stations; the perfect light of the God illuminates his heart, then one comes to know immaculatePure from impure.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24540

Cordially,

Virinder

pk70 · #5 (**permalink**) 10-Apr-2009, 00:49 AM

Respected VSGREWAL Ji
With all due respect, I have to disagree with you due to wrong assumptions you are making about others. You have read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji even hundred times; it will not change your mind-set. In my post I asked you very simple question if Guru asked his followers “ First clean your mind and then join then Amrit ceremony ?” or he let all to have it who were willing to?’ Your over 60 times reading of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji couldn’t make you enough honest to answer the question. What kind of boasting is this? You are unnecessarily attaching “Turban, Sword etc “with spirituality” and trying to define them through Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. All those who contributed in to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji didn’t establish “Khalsa” it was tenth Master who did, how come you are defining these fives out of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji where in fact they are used in a metaphoric expression. Reading or reciting Gurbani with own mind-set, and not listening actually what the real Message is conveyed through Gurbani, is nothing but a academic muscles or mind pleasing. There are people out there for whom 5 Kakars are very dear and after having it they are struggling with five primal forces as you and many others are doing; let them do it, don’t try to tell them that this will insult amrit because Tenth Nanak when gave Amrit he didn’t put any condition, on what ground you are saying so. Surprisingly none of the debaters ever said that only through 5 kakars, spiritually comes. Sikhism is all about battling within to keep love for our beloved Master-the Creator. All are struggling at their own levels and capacities as per His ordinance. Don’t be judge of others in this regard. No Sikh wearing 5 kakars should disrespect those who are not wearing 5 kakars because Guru didn’t do that, it is that simple, same way, who love 5 Kakars, don’t lecture them with your own mind-set about 5 kakars either.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24540
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24540
Forgive me if I said any thing that really affects your spiritual progression, I didn’t have any intention to do so save for your boasting of reading Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji many times in comparison to others who question your distortion. All I am saying is that as you are right to clean within is important, they are also right to have 5 Kakars to walk on the same Guru path you are claiming to tread on. Only truly achieving those virtues will decide who in real sense have followed Guru not these lame lectures or my commentries. Thanks
Regards
G Singh

tony · #6 (**permalink**) 10-Apr-2009, 02:18 AM

If anyone has personal issue with a posting please can they do it via a personal message to the person concerned, My intention with this subject is to find out the reasons for the need to carry the five K's and to see how they can help me and others to become better people (Sikhs). It is not my intention to start an argument as this helps nobody.
Now I would like to address the answers so far
Bawaj ji
your reasons for kesh is to keep as God intented/ made us. this falls short when one cuts nails /removes appendix and so on, All including kesh are remnents of our past, all became obsolete when man started walking upright, I have heard hair is used for the making of vitamin D2 which is correct but only when the skin is completly covered and sunlight can not touch the skin i.e. animals with fur. So if we are to stay as God made us then we must keep our nails, To look saintly I suppose is a reasonable reason, but looking isnt always enough. I understand the need for the Kanga if one has hair no need to go on with this one. I always wonder about the kara and this is the nicest explanation I heard would love to know if this is right and if it is why has it been reduced in size. the kachera seems pretty logical but are they neccassery now days, how many Sikhs ride horses. The kirpan a means to protect is very out dated. one if you used it in self defence in England and the other person wasnt armed you would have a job proving that it wasnt excessive force, Most people who have claimed it was in selfdefence have failed and are doing time, also if you pull a knife out your quite likely to get shot these days and these also the fact that if one carries a weapon the other will get a bigger/ better weapon hence the nuclear arms race. thank you for your posting but still it hasnt shed any light on the need for them,
Satnam ji
Hair cannot give you strength or energy, it is dead from the moment it leaves the folical it cannot repair its self nor does it require any more nutrients after being cut than if it is left uncut. It grows at the same rate reguardless, I have a great degree of humility and am willing to surrender myself to God. I do my best each day to follow the teaching of the Guru jis as per Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Looking at my actions each night and promising to do better the next day (not always achieving it but trying anyway) Still I cannot see the need of the five K's or how they can help any one to be a better person (Sikh). Thank you for trying any way the reminder of being humble and the need to surrender are always of help.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24540
Virinder ji
thank you for taking the time to reply to my question your opion always means alot. I have followed your threads with great interest and must agree that many change the subject quite quickly. Superstition being the lastest one I've read and that changed direction within the first page. When i first read the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji it seemed so simple say your prayers, think of God at all times, treat all as equals and help others selflessly. The finding of the inner self being the hardest part, i.e. the losing of the ego, believing all are better, but even thats getting easier, Its the need to carry items which I can only see as a means of obtaining an identity, the need to have hair, carrying a kirpan and the wearing of a Turban just so that others know that I'm a Sikh, It actually seems to be an Ego thing as opposed to an aid to losing ones ego. My days of trying to stand out in the crowd for the way I look are well and truly over. So as yet I see no real reason why I need any of the five K's to say that I'm Sikh. Thank you for your comments and I look forward to your next thread
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24540
Tony

vsgrewal48895 · #7 (**permalink**) 10-Apr-2009, 02:19 AM

Dear G Singh Ji,

In short I will take Amrit when I have cleaned my inside. In my own judgement of my self, so for I have not made my self fit to take, Amrit. I do not think it is just a ritual/joke and a means to an end. My mind roaming around in 10 directions. I am making an honest effort to subjugate my lower instincts and to develop virtues. When I become fit I may be blessed by Akal Purkh's Grace and Amrit will automatically be showered.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24540
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24540

Respectfully submitted with regards..

Virinder

tony · #8 (**permalink**) 10-Apr-2009, 02:25 AM

Cant agree more Virinder ji, It is better to make the effort first then receive the honour than to receive the honour and forget to make the effort
Tony

vsgrewal48895 · #9 (**permalink**) 10-Apr-2009, 03:14 AM

Dear Tony Ji,

I have been trying to say this since long but it is twisted, spinned etc. I have written my personal experience in one of my posts that Manjit (My wife) reminded me that I could not live the Truth for 15 minutes. To me it is better not to have, rather than insulting the 5 K's later on as we read it every day in the media. Thanks for your thoughts.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24540
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24540

Cordially,

Virinder