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Guru Granth Sahib Ji's Stand on Marriage...

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guru, granth, sahib, jis, stand, marriage
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01-Jul-2004, 12:24 PM
Admin Singh's Avatar Admin Singh Admin Singh is offline
 
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Guru Granth Sahib Ji's Stand on Marriage...

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Taken from elsewhere on the internet...

Quote:
Veeron te Bhainji,

I think this is one issue which is always a key one and that affects us drastically in life..

What is written in Guru Granth Sahib Ji about marriage? Is it mentioned anywhere that a daughter of a Sikh has to be married to a Sikh itself??? Also why doesnt that rule apply to a boy in that case? Guruji dont believe in this discrimation. And if Guruji doesnt believe in any discrimation then why does the sociey make such a big issue of this.

Sikh Rehat Maryada says so... but this is written by SGPC, who are onyl interested in securing their power. So is it that they feel that if a daughter gets married to another caste, one individual of the Sikhs will get less...

I just recently read an article on Anand Karaj. I have started reading the Guru Granth Sahib and I have a fairly OK idea of then other religions too. Just for the background information, I am a part of a very cultured, Gursikh family, so I am pretty aware of the importance of Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
I had heard you once, becoz you had come to our town once.
I recently read an article on Anand Karaj and it is also mentioned in the Anand Karaj related books, Rehatnama that "A Sikh's daughter should be married to a Sikh."
Firstly,
According to my knowledge, this has been written by the SGPC people in the Rehatnama. My question is that, is it mentioned anywhere in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji? To my knowledge in all religions, in any of them, it is not mentioned that you cannot marry a person not belonging to the same religion. Your point of the child having to face two religions is very valid but my question I reinstate, IS IT MENTIONED ANYWHERE IN THE GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI, THAT A SIKH'S DAUGHTER SHOULD BE MARRIED TO A SIKH?
If there is any such thing in the Bani, please I need the shabad and the meaning, page number in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
Secondly,
This has been written by the SGPC people, who wouldnt want the strength of Sikhs to go down. Why this doesnt apply to a boy? Is it because then the strength of Sikhs doesnt decrement, but increment if she converts to a Sikh. Dont you think that if the mother is a Sikh, then she can put more Sikhi principles in the child than the non-Sikh mother.
Thirdly,
Also certain rules are followed by the Sikh Panth as mentioned in the Rehatnama of which all of us, males and females dont rigidly follow, eg, applying Mehandi, wearing ear-rings. Nowadays, drinking and removing hair from parts of the body has become a social norm, but then why those people are not discriminated? Is it because, if many people break a rule, then the rule existence is not followed at all? Then why do the Granthis go to their house and talk to them?
Gurdwaras too dont follow all the rules mentioned in the Rehatnama, eg, the Kada-Prashad should be put for distribution in the plates in BEER AASAN, this too is not followed in the Gurdwaras, so why is that few rules if broken are not considered at all and few raise such a big issue. There are many such issues which the Gurdwaras too dont follow. The Huzoor Sahib, which is one of the Pank Takht do absolutely haywire with the rules mentioned in the Rehatnama, but that has solid recognition. Why this discrimination?
Please reply to each and every point of mine, but essentially the first question. Answer in the same point manner.
Whatever is my understanding of the Gurdwaras, Granthis and the people and their norms is restricted to my vicinity. This is not keeping in mind, any particular place or person.
I REPEAT....
URGENT, PLEASE REPLY IT NOW IMMEDIATELY..........




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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01-Jul-2004, 13:06 PM
Amarpal's Avatar Amarpal Amarpal is offline
 
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Dear Khalsa Jee, (Ideal Singh),

The operative for our lives is, 'Ek noor se sub jag upjaya kaun bhele kaun mande'. In accordance with this the two sexes are equal; what applies to girls applies to boys too and vice versa.

Rehatnama is not part of sikh scripture. It is made by people like you and me. It is not absolute and is intended for some different purpose; it has not come from divinities.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/184-guru-granth-sahib-jis-stand-marriage.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=184

Where ever there is conflict between the two, in my opinion it is good to follow what direction 'Sri Guru Granth Sahib' gives - it says all are equal.

With Love and Regards for all.

Amarpal
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 02-Jul-2004, 14:50 PM
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Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=184

Please continue with the discussion.

God bless
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 10-Jul-2004, 00:45 AM
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ok, i'm going to stray a little from the original question... what does Sikhi say about marriage in general? why is it so important?
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 13-Jul-2004, 02:57 AM
CaramelChocolate's Avatar CaramelChocolate CaramelChocolate is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amarpal
In accordance with this the two sexes are equal; what applies to girls applies to boys too and vice versa.

Rehatnama is not part of sikh scripture. It is made by people like you and me. It is not absolute and is intended for some different purpose; it has not come from divinities.
If when gender is referred to in Sikhism, it is really gender neutral, wouldn't this promote a YES on same-gender marriage within Sikhism?

~CaramelChocolate~
The little philosopher
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 13-Jul-2004, 10:37 AM
Amarpal's Avatar Amarpal Amarpal is offline
 
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Dear Member (Caramel Chocolate),

What is said in the posting is Sikhism considers the two sexes as equal.

You know that nature creates the two sexes with some purpose. sexual pleasure is a small inducement given by nature so that the species procreate. Sexual pleasure is not the end but a means to continue various forms of lives on this planet.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=184

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=184
If the two individuals of the same sex enter into what you call as marriage then the nature's provision is violated the very reason for which nature created two sexes gets negated and only lust remains. Spitituality demands effacement of negative attibutes from life, which includes lust. Having sex in marriage is not lust, it is the means to comply with the intent of nature for which the two sexes were created.

Since all religions of the world aim towards spirituality, so called marriage between the two individuals of the same sex cannot be accepted by any religion. Certainly not by Sikh Religion.

The question posed by the other member Sukhi I will respond in my next posting.

With Love and Respect for all.
Amarpal
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 13-Jul-2004, 11:29 AM
Amarpal's Avatar Amarpal Amarpal is offline
 
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Dear Khalsa Jee (sukhi),

Sikh religion does not insist that one should get married or not. It provides for spirituality with the frame work of family. if one does not want to get married it is not an un-sikh-like act.

From secular view point, the society is not yet evolved where the single girls can consider themselves as safe as boys. Laws of the land are not strong and their implementation is very slow. The victim girl is not sympathased by the society. The stigma remains on her making her life difficult. These have nothing to do with religion or Sikhi. From this considerations it is better for girls to get married; in some measure marriage provides social, economic and physical protection to the girl who has lesser muscle power and is vulnerable. I know girls who had remained unmarried and have not suffered any of the disabilities I have suggested above. These girls knew how to conduct and carry themselves in society; they did not depend on others; they choose the individuals with whom they talk or interact carefully and what to talk also they decided; when to be out and when to return back to their home was also doctored so as not to give any chance for comments. But in old age when the mobility is low one longs for company, these ladies and even men who have remaind unmarried are suffering from.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=184
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=184

Not getting married is not a crime in Sikh Religion. Our Guru Sahib knew that 'Institution of Marriage' is not natural, it is man made for orderly conduct of society, which will change with time. Getting married or not the individual has to decide, it is not a matter with which Sikh Religion concern itself, if the couple want to get married the needed provision exist in the scripture.

With Love and Respect for all.

Amarpal
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 14-Jul-2004, 01:45 AM
CaramelChocolate's Avatar CaramelChocolate CaramelChocolate is offline
 
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sexual pleasure is a small inducement given by nature so that the species procreate.
So if I were a heterosexual and I had started puberty and had the desire to have sex, even if I was at a tender age of twelve, this is God's way of telling me I have to procreate?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=184

If the two individuals of the same sex enter into what you call as marriage then the nature's provision is violated the very reason for which nature created two sexes gets negated and only lust remains.
A same-gender couple getting married does not affect you. If they believe it is right, then why not let them.
So if a marriage is not built around procreation [meaning they don't have kids] then the relationship is built on lust? This is not true. Because then that would mean that women who are unable to procreate are also exempt from relationships because this would be lust.
Sex does not equal lust, sex is a physical expression of love. In my opinion the Gurus promoted attachment to sex was wrong and not neccesserily the act of sex between two adults that love each other.

Spitituality demands effacement of negative attibutes from life, which includes lust.
I assume this is a typo and you meant spirituality.
Spirituality promotes love, and if two men, two women or a man and a women love each other, then it is not wrong for them to physically express this love.

Having sex in marriage is not lust, it is the means to comply with the intent of nature for which the two sexes were created.

Since all religions of the world aim towards spirituality, so called marriage between the two individuals of the same sex cannot be accepted by any religion. Certainly not by Sikh Religion.
So just because I am not a heterosexual I cannot be spiritual or aim towards an spirituality, or being a non-heterosexual and spiritual is not allowed?

Sikh religion does not insist that one should get married or not. It provides for spirituality with the frame work of family. if one does not want to get married it is not an un-sikh-like act.
So marriage is only for families in Sikhism? Fair enough, but this is nothing against non-heterosexuality.
If we are all equal in Sikhism and two men or two women wish to get married then they should not be stopped, if they are then this is inequality.

Not getting married is not a crime in Sikh Religion. Our Guru Sahib knew that 'Institution of Marriage' is not natural, it is man made for orderly conduct of society, which will change with time.
Anand karaj, the Sikh marriage ceremony is also called 'the union of two souls'. This does not mention a family unit and since the souls are genderless it really does not imply that having a family is the only reason for marriage. The fact that the soul is genderless promotes the possibility of a same-gender marriage even more.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=184

~CaramelChocolate~
The little philosopher
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 14-Jul-2004, 15:25 PM
Amarpal's Avatar Amarpal Amarpal is offline
 
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Dear CarameChocalate Jee,

I am giving my response in the order in which you have posted here.

i) In my posting I have used the word Nature and not God. What you have said is allowed by nature. It is happening in Animal Kingdom. Every civilised society has its rule and we human follow it to maintain order and justice for all. We do not do indulge in procreation when one of the participant it self has not physically fully grown. It is for the good of the mother and the child to be born. I can make out from the wording 'tender' that you are fully aware of it.

ii) If same-gender individual want to indulge in sex, on one can stop them. The way I will view them is reflected in my posting. A woman who can not bear child is an exception, rule are not made for exceptions, they are treated separately. I will take a sypathatic view of the misfortune of such people. Any way, when the couple gets married this disability is normally not known to them. Sex is a physical expression of love, yes as long as the sexual act is real sharing, otherwise not; it is exploitation it, is lust. Even when it is intense and complete sharing there is an element of give and take; it is not pure love, it is physical need originating from the harmones that are generated in the body. This is my view.

iii) Spirituality promotes love, yes I agree with you. Love means giving without any selfish interest, not even any thought of getting any thing in return. Any love which invoves give and take is a form of trade. if a love is directed towards a specific person it indicate a possibility of interdependency - some selfishness, fulfilment of some thing which is lacking in the individual. This is not the love of spiritually evolved people; they are selfless, they give pure love to all.

iv) Any one whose thoughts, speech and actions are not fine tuned to the common good of nature and all the beings is not truly spiritual, the individual may be on the path to spirituality. For this to happen the individual should have full natural control on her/his senses and the facutlies to act. There is gradual progress towards spirituality, it is not an on-off process, one keeps on eveloving. Those who are given to desires, more it is so, farther they are form spirituality.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=184

v) Marriage in Sikh Religion is between man and woman, else it is not a marriage.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=184

vi) I have not concluded by deliberation on soul so do not feel confident in talking about it, but I agree with you that as the soul is describe it is formless and consequently should be gender less. The same-gender indivdual are having gender. The extrapolation from fromless, gender-less entity to forms with gender is probably too much.

I agree marriage should be a union at physical level and at the level of soul.

With this I close.

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal
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