108 mala beads

CaramelChocolate · #1 (**permalink**) 14-Feb-2005, 05:36 AM

Do Sikhs, when using mala for naam jap, have to use 108 beads on their mala? I know this is a Hindu thing but it can have a logical unsuperstitious meaning for Sikhs also -

(5) Why are there 108 beads in a mala (rosary)?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/1771-108-mala-beads.html
Answer: According to the Upanishads, a person will breathe 21,600 times a day. It is broken up into two parts, day and night. Therefore, during the day we breathe 10,800 times and at night we breathe 10,800 times. Because it is not practical for us to chant the name of God during every breath, we should chant them at least 108 times. Every time we chant the mantra its fruit is multiplied by 100. Hence, if we say it 108 times it will really equal 10,800.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1771

Source: http://kids.swaminarayan.org

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #2 (**permalink**) 14-Feb-2005, 08:43 AM

Gurbani tells us that those who Japp the Naam swaass swass are the real saints..so each breath is meant for naam japp.

Where do we draw the line that says..Here lies the point of "unpractical" ?? you have put it at 10,800 is Not Practical...so we do it 108..and it automatically multiplies by 100 to make it 10,800....what about just doing it 10.8 times and automatically multiplying it by 1000...or better still just 1.08...and multiply by 10,000...and IF we cant do/have difficulty computing how to do .08 of ajapp..why not take the easy way out and round it up to 1 adn in that way we will "accumalate" EXTRA Bonus POINTS....for those days we "really need" to take a holiday and cant do even the minimum nana japps.( like maybe we end up in coma for a few months and the "bonus" points accumalated would certianly come in handly then !!!

the 108 beads mala...counting...gintee mintee is of no significance to real SIKHS as this has no value at all in GURBANI/GURMATT. This Maala carrying thingy is popular with the "hinduised" brahmanwaadi "sants/babajis" only. Not a Single line in Gurbani "recommends" maaal as a tool for Naam japp Abhiyaas..but there are SEVERAL that CONDEMN such SHOW OFF RITUAL behaviour..Gaal maala tilak lilatang...doi dhotee bastar kapattang...etc etc.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1771
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1771
A true Sikh follows what Gurbani Says....just try your level best to do naam japp as much as you can....forget about counting and scoring off..HE is NOT PLEASED with such rituals as counting etc.

Jarnail Singh

Amerikaur · #3 (**permalink**) 22-Feb-2005, 10:13 AM

I don't think I can top what Gyani ji said about counting being verboten in Sikhi.

The aala is not required by Gurbani, however, some Sikhs think there are advantages of using it. A mala can be an extra physical reminder to do simran...kind of like having a post-it note attached to one's computer screen.

Some people say that doing simran with a mala helps them concentrate and stay focused. I've never used one...and don't particularly care to out of personal choice. I prefer to keep my body relaxed during simran, and the idea of doing something that requires fine motor control is not something that I find appealing.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1771

Now...what I have an issue with is the chain. If someone wants to have a mala chain of 108 (or a factor of 108) beads out of tradition...fine with me. If someone wants to break with tradition and make a mala chain that is a different number...fine with me. I have no attachment to the number, for or against.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1771

What I do NOT like is the clasp of the chain that gives the person a tactile sense of where they are in the count. It also produces an "end" to the count. I am very, very disappointed that this is the way that malas are made and sold to Sikhs.

If the mala is genuinely used for a purpose that is true to Sikhi, then doesn't it make sense that the chain should have no beginning and no end?

Amarpal · #4 (**permalink**) 22-Feb-2005, 14:37 PM

Dear Khalsa Ji,

Numbers are all created by we humans for the needs of our lives. It has nothing spiritual in it. However, ancient scripture of our land considers 108 as a spiritually important number along with other numbers which Gyani Ji have spoken of in his post. As for as Sikhi is concerned this number has no special meaning in spiritual domain.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1771

Mala also has nothing to do with spirituality. Yet it is a tool to stablise the mind and its thought process. Moving the beats is the minimum mechanical work needed to hold mind on Jaap. As one makes progress, this tool is no longer meeded. The individual by that time has stablised her or his mind. The mechanical work them gets limited to utterence of Jaap. With progress this utternce too stops and the individual does the Jaap mentally. In the final stage the Jaap too stops, the individual remains in rememberance of 'The sat' without Jaap, this is referred too as Ajaapa Jaap. Further progress takes the y the individual into Samadhi which the end of this long process.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1771

So one can see all these are means and not the end. The goal is Samadhi.

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh

Arvind · #5 (**permalink**) 22-Feb-2005, 23:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amarpal

it is a tool to stablise the mind and its thought process. Moving the beats is the minimum mechanical work needed to hold mind on Jaap. As one makes progress, this tool is no longer meeded. The individual by that time has stablised her or his mind. The mechanical work them gets limited to utterence of Jaap. With progress this utternce too stops and the individual does the Jaap mentally. In the final stage the Jaap too stops, the individual remains in rememberance of 'The sat' without Jaap, this is referred too as Ajaapa Jaap. Further progress takes the y the individual into Samadhi which the end of this long process.

So one can see all these are means and not the end. The goal is Samadhi.

Personally, I agree with this sequence totally, with Samadhi as the goal.

Regards.

Amerikaur · #6 (**permalink**) 26-Feb-2005, 05:48 AM

Ah!! So it IS okay to do simran staying focused on saying Waheguru "in the mind"? It doesn't have to be spoken? I was confused about that.

Another thing I am confused about - what is Samhadi? I don't think I ever understood that well.

CaramelChocolate · #7 (**permalink**) 26-Feb-2005, 18:10 PM

Samãdhi

1) ‘Trance’. Transcendental experience, usually of God or His abode, in which consciousness of the body and surroundings is lost.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1771
2) Eighth and final step of ashtãng-yoga. Transcendental experience of union with God, which is the culmination and climax of yoga
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1771

[Source http://www.baps.org/glossary/index.htm ]

Amarpal · #8 (**permalink**) 28-Feb-2005, 12:24 PM

Dear Amerikaur Ji,
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1771

Samadhi is a state of in which the individual is dissolved in 'The Sat'. She or he looses the body consciousness and the consciousness of time as the individual in this state is conscious of the infinite, the unlimited.

Keep in mind, 'The Sat' is timeless, it has no body or form. So you can conclude what the individual is when she or he is in Samadhi; She or he, in Samadhi, is one with 'The Sat'.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1771

Keep in mind that being one with 'The Sat' does not mean that she or he is 'The Sat'. In this state the person experiences 'The Sat'.

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh

vijaydeep Singh · #9 (**permalink**) 28-Feb-2005, 23:57 PM

Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

Das think so far after the ataining of Brah Gyan by Bhai Sahib Bhai Randheer Singh ji all of the Sikhs think of thats is the goal.It is false.

When tenth door or Sahstardal Kamal is inverted then the state of Brahm Gyan is obtained.

But Sikhs go further ahead.

Ie

Sunn Mandal
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1771
Turiya Avastha
Turiyateet Awastha or Sachkhand.

There is some divine knowledge of Akal which we can not percive with our five sensse so Akal gives us Sixth sense to get it.

It can be felt,even while describing it the listener may not be able to understand if he read(as seeing sense is there) or listen(as hearing sense is there).

Nanak Kathan Karra Saar(O Nanak,describing the essense is difficult)

Jees Nu Tu Jannya Soi Jan Jane(To whom You(Akal) make to understand that person only understands).

In Guru Granth Sahib Ji beads of wood(Japni Kath Ki) is not encouraged by Bhagat Kabeer Ji.

Just by repeating name in Akalustat of Dasham Granth Guru Says,'There is a bird called Poodna,who keeps on saying Tuhi Tuhi(you only).But that does not mget salvation.if by saying mechnicaly we were to get salvation then that bird could have got.

Das here wants to take a dig at our own missioanier(Das do respect Kala Afghana Sahib but it is worth considering)It was said by Sant Singh Ji Maskeen as well perhaps it may be found in Adi Guru Granth Sahib Ji or may be in other scripture.

If donkey is laden with holy scripture then it does not makes him wise.So if a missionarry just read and make scripture by heart and 'record' it in mind that does not make him guide of mankind.Das is sorry that it was a bit offensive but it was as a result of an interaction with a missioanary of Das.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1771

Both agreed that to end ritualism,we will have to use spritualism.Intellectualism may not succed to end ritualism.As Vedanta was defeated by bhakti in past.But Gurmat has both bhakti and Gyan.

BabbarSher · #10 (**permalink**) 01-Mar-2005, 19:58 PM

Dear Vijaydeep:

What is sikhi?

Is it all about reading scriptures without understanding?

Is it all about reading and understanding, but doing nothing practically?

Is it all about reading, understanding and inculcating the teachings in one's life?

Will God be achieved by going Yoga's or Dasam Dwaar, or will we achieve him by Sehaj and by coming into his will?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1771
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1771

The things like Dasam Dawar you are describing are not spirtualism of sikhism, Going for such stuff by meditation will only lead to Haume, nothing more or less.

Sikhi advises living truthful life in accordance with His Hukum and doing sacchi Kaar. Following such a a truthful life people are liberated.

Please have a look at the following link.

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gur...jabi=t&id=2747