Reading Scriptures Has No Value

gurvinder_janu · #1 (**permalink**) 24-Jun-2007, 20:22 PM

Waheuru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/15922-reading-scriptures-has-no-value.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15922

Guru Piari Sadh Sangat Ji

By reading the scriptures we get knowledge, how to do naam simran of Waheguru. So knowledge of method, how to do simran is necessary, for which one should go through Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji's words.

By reciting any name of Waheguru on their own without going through Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji's words, some Gurmukhs are able to attain the same stage without knowledge of scriptures i.e. merging in Waheguru.

So learning method to do simran or reading scriptures has no value...

Please forgive me.

Narayanjot Kaur · #2 (**permalink**) 24-Jun-2007, 20:51 PM

Gurvinder_janu ji

The above words are your opinion we presume.

Simran is fundamental, no argument.

However your point appears to be that simran is the only valuable meditation. Let us for the moment assume that through simran alone one achieves a state of profound understanding (my metaphor). What understanding has one achieved?

Simran, gurbani and kirtan are all meditation -- and as such offer different experiences of the same path. Gurbani and kirtan are not exercises aimed exclusively at gaining knowledge. Without gurbani and kirtan you deprive yourself.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15922
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15922

Respectfully

Astroboy · #3 (**permalink**) 19-Jul-2007, 21:40 PM

When I see kids learning kirtan, they just adapt to the shabad without questions, and an observer can start wondering what motivates them to sing the shabad. At that stage, miracles take place at every moment and it can be witnessed by the on-looker. Kids have no questions, just wanna learn to do things correctly.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15922
If I may ask, is this stage of learning without understanding the shabad a futile attempt?

kaur-1 · #4 (**permalink**) 20-Jul-2007, 05:19 AM

Good read " The Spiritual Importance of Reciting Gurbani Daily - By Bhai Sahib Bhai Joginder Singh Jee Talwara"
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15922

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-s...ani-daily.html

gurvinder_janu · #5 (**permalink**) 20-Jul-2007, 10:16 AM

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15922

Respected Kaur-1 Ji,

I m thankful to u for the link u have mentioned, it has cleared all my doubts regarding reciting of Gurbaani.

Regards

Gurvinder Kaur

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #6 (**permalink**) 20-Jul-2007, 20:12 PM

a "recipe" tells you exactly what you need and what you must do and how.
But just reading the recipe...will not achieve anything......reciting the recipe many times....maybe a "memorised recipe expert"
To actually bake the cake....you will need to have the recipe handy..follow it meticulously...and viola..a delicious cake is for the eating...
The more you "practise"...the better you become at recipe reading....
a rather simplified way of looking at..Gurbani ( recipe for better human life working towards unification with Akal purakh)...daily recital leads to better understanding...simran is like the cake..and eating the cake is described in the concluidng shabad of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji..Mundawni Mh 5..Thaal wich tin wastu paiyeah..sat santokh vicharo......whoever EATS and swallows will enjoy the true benefits...
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15922
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15922

Gyani jarnail Singh

Khalsa1699 · #7 (**permalink**) 20-Jul-2007, 20:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by begum

When I see kids learning kirtan, they just adapt to the shabad without questions, and an observer can start wondering what motivates them to sing the shabad. At that stage, miracles take place at every moment and it can be witnessed by the on-looker. Kids have no questions, just wanna learn to do things correctly.
If I may ask, is this stage of learning without understanding the shabad a futile attempt?

Once somebody asked Guru Arjan Dev Ji the similar question "Is there any meaning in reciting Gurbani without understanding it" and Guru Arjan Dev Ji replied "Yes, it is because reciting Gubani the seed of the Salvation is sown somewhere deep in the heart".

Wahe Guru Ji Da Khalsa Wahe Guru Ji Dee Fateh

Siri Kamala · #8 (**permalink**) 14-Dec-2010, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by namjap

When I see kids learning kirtan, they just adapt to the shabad without questions, and an observer can start wondering what motivates them to sing the shabad. At that stage, miracles take place at every moment and it can be witnessed by the on-looker. Kids have no questions, just wanna learn to do things correctly.
If I may ask, is this stage of learning without understanding the shabad a futile attempt?

SSA Namjap ji,

In my experience here in the US, kids quite often DO have questions, and want more than simply to just learn to do things correctly. So much depends on the culture created by the parents, the teachers, and the community around learning.

I am a professional educator. I taught English at the high school level (ages 13 - 18) for several years, and since then I have been designing training materials and teaching adults in a professional context in some capacity.

From my perspective, rote memorization is the lowest (and least useful) form of learning.

There are far better and more creative ways to teach...and for children to learn. But it is up to US as the adults to provide support for that desire to learn to flourish.

If you have not read about Maria Montessori's work and the schools she created, I highly recommend them. Montessori schools teach a LOVE of learning and make learning a joy for every child. I speak from the experience of having been both a child in a Montessori school and a teacher's aid in one later in life.

Ishna · #9 (**permalink**) 14-Dec-2010, 09:38 AM

Greetings all

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siri Kamala

...

From my perspective, rote memorization is the lowest (and least useful) form of learning.
...

I disagree slightly. I say slightly because I agree that rote memorization in itself if not very useful, but I disagree as rote memorization can be a useful stepping stone to better and deeper understanding.

For example, I am currently learning Kirtan Sohila. I'm doing this by listening to Snatam Kaur's rendition (you can find it you YouTube), reading the transliteration from my nitnem gutka and singing along. I've successfully memorised the first and most of the second.. um.. stanzas? (sorry, I don't know the correct word... obviously not pauris or shalokas or ashtapadis!)

I don't know what most of the individual words mean (what the heck is ho-ay or so-e anyway?!?!), but I read the English translation periodically and can sing the memorized parts whilst reading the English at the same time.

For me (I don't know about others) there is something really special about being able to sing Sohila. The words sound so sweet, and seems to have a resonance within me.

And as I learn more about the language of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, I will learn more about what those words mean. I think I'm covering both bases with this balanced approach.

So in summary (can you tell I've been working on meeting minutes all day?!) I think there is value in rote memorisation:

1. Gurbani has resonance even if you don't know what it means (well, I think so, that could just be a product of my faith and hopeful wishes though!)
2. Kirtan can assist spiritual connection with Waheguru and others (in sangat it feels great to sing along!!!)

BUT only if you also have the committment to learning about the content of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and general awareness about the theme of the shabad you're memorising.

Sat Sri Akaaal!

Ishna