Why have Sikhs Changed Sikhism?

SIKS SINGH · #1 (**permalink**) 02-Nov-2011, 18:23 PM

I am a sikh - non amritdari - but wish to progress to the taking of the divine Nectar

Before I proceed I have some issues as I am lost and confused :

I have family members (who are AKJ followers) I do not wish to follow their way of life for the following reasons:

The AKJ as well as the Nihangs have separated the religion, they do not practice what they preach with their family members, they will shun them if they disagree with their way of life, which is controversial and does not follow the whole of the teaching of the GGS, they have a different Reahat and they follow the teachings (progression of the sikh scriptures) under the following of bhai Rhandir Singh 1878 -1961.

I have personal experience of this as my brother is a AKJ, his wife wears a turban his kids have all been enforced into this way of preaching, beliveing and practising the Sikh religion under the guidance from Bhai Rhandir singh, they do not care for there mother or the family members who do not belong to thier group, they will not eat at other peoples homes and they try and convert, everyone who they come across.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sects-groups-cults/37417-why-have-sikhs-changed-sikhism.html

I have also experienced by direct contact with them, that they may have the GGS at home, but lie and do things which are contrary to the Guru Granth teachings, they have been materialistic, yet dissolve this egotism in sarcasm and by calling those who question them of being impure and imperfect.

KARME APOU APNE KHE NEERAI KHE DHOOR - but they do not care about others feelings, when I have served in gurdwaras, they will not allow non practising AKJ to serve or do seva, they have separate Gurdwaras most often called "singh sabha" THEY ARE A SECT, LIKE THE NIHANGS -

GOD OUR LOVE - IS THE UNIVERSAL CREATOR, THE GGS HAS GIVEN US THE WAY, but the AKJ are lost in their way to show the practice of religion and the wearing of clothes which conform to their way as detailed by thier founder Bhai Rhandir Singh, they have a different Rehat - they do - practice a different form of Sikhism, distinct from the true words of the GSS - have you ever seen a rehnsbhai Kertan in practice in the Harimandir Sahib - NO.

I am also concerned that this group is blind to the reality of "GOD RESIDES IN ALL" so why have a sect which is distinct with a disctinct way of preaching and living - they and their belief is that only they are the true followers of SIKHISM - HOW WRONG THEY ARE - for god does not demand rituals or practices, GURU NANAK our Founder of Original sikhism, was follwed by Bala and Mardana, who were Muslim and Hindu, they did not practice caste or ritual separation, but the love of god, our Universal Creator in oneness.

The sikhs such as the Nihangs also cause me concern

THE TILAK - what the hell is going on here, why is a sacrifice being accepted in Sr Hazoor Sahib, with the blood from the goat then being taken into the Darbar Sahib and used to anoint the weapons around the GSS, and also taken to the GSS (look on you tube - before you start abusing me) - the Nihangs then take this and prepare and eat the meat and drink Bhaang, they have a different rehat too, very similar to AKJ but allowing them to eat non halal meat?

So again this is a sect of Sikhism which is distinct from the teachings of Guru Nanak and the other Gurus.

My concern also finds no resolution in the sikh temples, for instance why have we 2, 3 or 4 Sikh temples in some cities which all confirm to one or the other sect, we also have ravidaasi Gurdwaras, all this is the doing of the SIKHS such as Bhai Rhandir Singh, who has been followed by the AKJ, there beliefs are changing Sikhism - for the worse as the Truth of GOD IS BEING renewed into a caste system which creates a new form of Sikhism, from the TRUTH.

We have no origin, as Sikhs, we could have been Muslim or Hindu, but Sikhism of the time gave everyone a equal undertaking that the Universal creator is attainable and resides in all, but the truth has been forgotton, call them the 10 commandments, the Rehats, the Bible, the Koran or the Vedas, all of which are important to the way to god, and enlightenment.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37417

I AM A LOST SOUL, I LOVE YOU ALL, BUT I PRAY TO MY LORD THE UNIVERSAL CREATOR THAT THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE HE HAS GIVEN, IS INSTILLED IN MY HEART AND THAT OF HIS TRUE TEACHINGS.

I respect your wishes but respect those of the GSS in its entirety and fall upon the sword of love, for the sake of all of humanity do as you would to others as you would expect of them to do to you, WHAT WE SOW - IS WHAT WE SHALL REAP, both in this world and in the next - time is little so pray your guidance is true and the path genuine.

My concern is that they (AKJ AND THE OTHER CASTES) have interpreted the HOLY GGS and transmitted a new method of teaching this, to the SIK Community, they have Rehansbhai (all night vigils), they also associate and congregate with only there own sect, and will only look to marry into that group

EK ONKAR - ONE UNIVERSAL GOD

harry haller · #2 (**permalink**) 02-Nov-2011, 18:48 PM

Siks Singhji
I cannot find much that I do not agree with, although more learned members of this forum may do.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37417

My only point would be a rather harsh one,

Stop worrying about everyone else, we live in an imperfect world where each of us has the right to follow or interpret in whatever fashion we wish.You clearly have an interpretation you are comfortable with, do not worry about hoisting it on anyone, or stressing about others that have different interpretations, concentrate on the unique thoughts in your head, realise them, act on them, follow them, and let the others worry about whether they are correct or not,

Like you, once I had a reasonable idea of what the message was, I was quite shocked at how much variation and hypocrisy there is, I cannot do anything about it, I have not the time to seek out the hypocrisy and right it, to so would be to make myself a hypocrite, and end up turning me into a boring fanatic, convinced that only my route was correct
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37417

Your route is right for you, follow it, embrace it, instead of being sad that others have grasped something different, embrace the common you have with them, and be grateful that you have an understanding to follow, rather than no understanding at all

Randip Singh · #3 (**permalink**) 02-Nov-2011, 19:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIKS SINGH

I am a sikh - non amritdari - but wish to progress to the taking of the divine Nectar

Before I proceed I have some issues as I am lost and confused :

I have family members (who are AKJ followers) I do not wish to follow their way of life for the following reasons:

The AKJ as well as the Nihangs have separated the religion, they do not practice what they preach with their family members, they will shun them if they disagree with their way of life, which is controversial and does not follow the whole of the teaching of the GGS, they have a different Reahat and they follow the teachings (progression of the sikh scriptures) under the following of bhai Rhandir Singh 1878 -1961.

I have personal experience of this as my brother is a AKJ, his wife wears a turban his kids have all been enforced into this way of preaching, beliveing and practising the Sikh religion under the guidance from Bhai Rhandir singh, they do not care for there mother or the family members who do not belong to thier group, they will not eat at other peoples homes and they try and convert, everyone who they come across.

I have also experienced by direct contact with them, that they may have the GGS at home, but lie and do things which are contrary to the Guru Granth teachings, they have been materialistic, yet dissolve this egotism in sarcasm and by calling those who question them of being impure and imperfect.

KARME APOU APNE KHE NEERAI KHE DHOOR - but they do not care about others feelings, when I have served in gurdwaras, they will not allow non practising AKJ to serve or do seva, they have separate Gurdwaras most often called "singh sabha" THEY ARE A SECT, LIKE THE NIHANGS -

GOD OUR LOVE - IS THE UNIVERSAL CREATOR, THE GGS HAS GIVEN US THE WAY, but the AKJ are lost in their way to show the practice of religion and the wearing of clothes which conform to their way as detailed by thier founder Bhai Rhandir Singh, they have a different Rehat - they do - practice a different form of Sikhism, distinct from the true words of the GSS - have you ever seen a rehnsbhai Kertan in practice in the Harimandir Sahib - NO.

I am also concerned that this group is blind to the reality of "GOD RESIDES IN ALL" so why have a sect which is distinct with a disctinct way of preaching and living - they and their belief is that only they are the true followers of SIKHISM - HOW WRONG THEY ARE - for god does not demand rituals or practices, Guru Nanak our Founder of Original sikhism, was follwed by Bala and Mardana, who were Muslim and Hindu, they did not practice caste or ritual separation, but the love of god, our Universal Creator in oneness.

The sikhs such as the Nihangs also cause me concern

THE TILAK - what the hell is going on here, why is a sacrifice being accepted in Sr Hazoor Sahib, with the blood from the goat then being taken into the Darbar Sahib and used to anoint the weapons around the GSS, and also taken to the GSS (look on you tube - before you start abusing me) - the Nihangs then take this and prepare and eat the meat and drink Bhaang, they have a different rehat too, very similar to AKJ but allowing them to eat non halal meat?

So again this is a sect of Sikhism which is distinct from the teachings of Guru Nanak and the other Gurus.

My concern also finds no resolution in the sikh temples, for instance why have we 2, 3 or 4 Sikh temples in some cities which all confirm to one or the other sect, we also have ravidaasi Gurdwaras, all this is the doing of the SIKHS such as Bhai Rhandir Singh, who has been followed by the AKJ, there beliefs are changing Sikhism - for the worse as the Truth of GOD IS BEING renewed into a caste system which creates a new form of Sikhism, from the TRUTH.

We have no origin, as Sikhs, we could have been Muslim or Hindu, but Sikhism of the time gave everyone a equal undertaking that the Universal creator is attainable and resides in all, but the truth has been forgotton, call them the 10 commandments, the Rehats, the Bible, the Koran or the Vedas, all of which are important to the way to god, and enlightenment.

I AM A LOST SOUL, I LOVE YOU ALL, BUT I PRAY TO MY LORD THE UNIVERSAL CREATOR THAT THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE HE HAS GIVEN, IS INSTILLED IN MY HEART AND THAT OF HIS TRUE TEACHINGS.

I respect your wishes but respect those of the GSS in its entirety and fall upon the sword of love, for the sake of all of humanity do as you would to others as you would expect of them to do to you, WHAT WE SOW - IS WHAT WE SHALL REAP, both in this world and in the next - time is little so pray your guidance is true and the path genuine.

My concern is that they (AKJ AND THE OTHER CASTES) have interpreted the HOLY GGS and transmitted a new method of teaching this, to the SIK Community, they have Rehansbhai (all night vigils), they also associate and congregate with only there own sect, and will only look to marry into that group

EK ONKAR - ONE UNIVERSAL GOD

AKJ are a cult and follow a different Rehat Maryada. There are other cults too like GNNSJ, Raroanwale, DDT, Namdhari's etc.

What you are refering to as Nihungs are not Nihungs but Hazoori Sikhs. These Hazoori Sikhs are the ancestors of the originaly warriors that accompanied Guru Gobind Singh ji to the Deccan (where he died). They claim they are following the original Rehat set out by Guru Gobind Singh ji. I personally think this is Rajput Maryada (many Rajputs under SriHargobind ji taught Sikhs how to use Shastarvidya).

Nihungs do have a different Maryada but have always been around since the time of Guru Gobind Singh ji.

All though meat is not forbidden for Baptised Sikhs under the Sikh Rehat Maryada, ceremonies such as Shastar Tilak are forbidden.

It should be noted that Jhatka Bali used to take place at Harmandhit Sahib up until the 1920's.

bawaj · #4 (**permalink**) 02-Nov-2011, 20:13 PM

I would agree with Harry ji as I don't think you should worry about how someone else is practices his or her own religion. May the Hindu be the best Hindu and the Muslim be the best Muslim as long as they keep it to themselves.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37417

I had not really known much about the animal slaughter at Sri Hazoor Sahib but I looked it up and to that all I have to say to you is:

ਮਾਸੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਰਿ ਮੂਰਖੁ ਝਗੜੇ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਣੈ ॥ ਕਉਣੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਉਣੁ ਸਾਗੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਕਿਸੁ ਮਹਿ ਪਾਪ ਸਮਾਣੇ ॥
ਗੈਂਡਾ ਮਾਰਿ ਹੋਮ ਜਗ ਕੀਏ ਦੇਵਤਿਆ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੇ ॥ ਮਾਸੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਬੈਸਿ ਨਕੁ ਪਕੜਹਿ ਰਾਤੀ ਮਾਣਸ ਖਾਣੇ ॥
ਫੜੁ ਕਰਿ ਲੋਕਾਂ ਨੋ ਦਿਖਲਾਵਹਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਸੂਝੈ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਅੰਧੇ ਸਿਉ ਕਿਆ ਕਹੀਐ ਕਹੈ ਨ ਕਹਿਆ ਬੂਝੈ ॥

The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom. What is called meat, and what is called green vegetables? What leads to sin? It was the habit of the gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering. Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night. They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom. O Nanak, what can be said to the blind people? They cannot answer, or even understand what is said. (Page 1289).

SIKS SINGH · #5 (**permalink**) 02-Nov-2011, 20:26 PM

May the enlighten soul - wake to the Universal god, may the Guru Granth bring us out of darkness as intended by our Guru jis'

Thank you my brothers for your comments as you have gods light embibed within you to offer such guidance, may the True FOLLOWERS BE FREED FROM THE CYCLE OF BIRTHS AND DEATHS, I BEG MY MASTER THE GURU GRANTH SAHIB - THAT HE SHOWS THE UNIVERSAL CREATOR TO ME AND YOU MY FRIENDS TOO.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37417
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37417

I WILL FOLLOW THE GURU GRANTH SAHIB AS MY MASTER, I HAVE NO CASTE NO, DESIRE TO BELONG TO A SECT OR A CREED, OR PRACTISE MATERIALISTIC VOWS, FOR I KNOW THE TRUE GURU, WHERE HE RESIDES - GOD BLESS YOU

Kanwaljit Singh · #6 (**permalink**) 02-Nov-2011, 21:55 PM

I have 2-3 friends whom am very close to in AKJ. Actually it was an AKJ veerji at my work in Hyderabad, who made me meet the SOCH sangat there.

You can say they are radical, but I guess they are part of the sum of all anomalies in Sikh community so far.

Quote:

The AKJ as well as the Nihangs have separated the religion, they do not practice what they preach with their family members, they will shun them if they disagree with their way of life

They may have their actions separating people from themselves (which is debatable and varies from person to person) but they are not separating religion. I think they fit the line of The Dark Knight 'You either die as a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain'. Remember they were the Shaheeds of 1978. The main problem is having a sub-identity ie AKJ apart from being a Sikh.

Their Rehat is superset of Rehat most Sikhs follows. That is of course different in a way.

Quote:

They do not care for there mother or the family members who do not belong to thier group, they will not eat at other peoples homes

Of course we know not respecting your own mother means you are miles away from loving Guru. But this is problem amongst few and you can't expand to whole group.

Quote:

THE TILAK - what the hell is going on here, why is a sacrifice being accepted in Sr Hazoor Sahib, with the blood from the goat then being taken into the Darbar Sahib and used to anoint the weapons around the GSS, and also taken to the GSS (look on you tube - before you start abusing me) - the Nihangs then take this and prepare and eat the meat and drink Bhaang, they have a different rehat too, very similar to AKJ but allowing them to eat non halal meat?

That video is very old and nothing of that sort has happened in last 3 years I believe. The blood from goat is not taken to Guru Granth Sahib for sure.

Quote:

My concern also finds no resolution in the sikh temples, for instance why have we 2, 3 or 4 Sikh temples in some cities which all confirm to one or the other sect, we also have ravidaasi Gurdwaras, all this is the doing of the SIKHS such as Bhai Rhandir Singh, who has been followed by the AKJ

Different Gurudwaras is a problem of casteism. And what is happening is not due to Bhai Randhir Singh. He was a very respected Sikh, don't blame anyone just for the sake of it.

I know you see problems around you, the way your family acts. They may be limited to the person or as you believe, being caused due to influence of AKJ. We always see people doing wrong (or in reality not doing what you want or expect them to do!) around us all the time. We can't take it up to change them or whatever. Live your life as your understand is best for you.

Quote:

I AM A LOST SOUL, I LOVE YOU ALL, BUT I PRAY TO MY LORD THE UNIVERSAL CREATOR THAT THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE HE HAS GIVEN, IS INSTILLED IN MY HEART AND THAT OF HIS TRUE TEACHINGS.

I am sorry to be frank, but it is the anger who is consuming you from inside. You wish to attack people in a way, or retaliate or simply rebel. Remember my friend, war will never bring you peace.

Quote:

My concern is that they (AKJ AND THE OTHER CASTES) have interpreted the HOLY GGS and transmitted a new method of teaching this, to the SIK Community, they have Rehansbhai (all night vigils), they also associate and congregate with only there own sect, and will only look to marry into that group

AKJ is nothing but a group of Sikhs who do really heartfelt and devoted Kirtan for Sangat. That is the way I see them. Following the events of 1984, they have gone great lengths about keeping the group intact. And some members might end up thinking that everyone else is wrong.

Life is mixed bag of things. Just take what you need and be on your way. It is good for you that you are wise to know good from bad, but don't go mad about it. Simple.

SIKS SINGH · #7 (**permalink**) 03-Nov-2011, 02:43 AM

Thank you my brother - I am not angry - I have feelings but also want to be on the true path, some of my comments may have been harsh and you have been frank and honest, I do appreciate that, as I am learning all the time, but I can not understand how the GGS can be re-written, to exclude the ragmala and the other differences.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37417

I follow the concept of the Universal God as defined in the GGS in its entirety, as spoken words translated by the truth from the TRUTH.

I suppose that a lot of people are bitter about what happened in 1984 (rightly) but no sect should be allowed to reform as a new sect - I am the lowest of the low, I pray to EK ONKAR that my knowledge is expanded so that I may shine in his light.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37417

May god bless you all.

spnadmin · #8 (**permalink**) 03-Nov-2011, 12:05 PM

Nihangs may have been around since before Guru Gobind Singh ji, and may have been contemporary with Guru Hargobind ji. Their history is shrouded in mystery.

OSingh · #9 (**permalink**) 03-Nov-2011, 20:41 PM

"AKJ are a cult and follow a different Rehat Maryada. There are other cults too like GNNSJ, Raroanwale, DDT, Namdhari's etc."

What a nonsense statement to make. I am very suprised that the admin of this forum have actually given their thanks/appreciation to this comment.

First of all, to put namdharis with RareWale samparda,GNNSJ, DDT and AKJ is wrong.
Namdhari's believe in a physical Guru who they bow down to and do to kirtan to. They believe in a physical/human Guru where as the other jatha's you have mentioned all believe in shabad Guru. AKJ, DDT etc are strictly against Namdhari sect and theybelieve in gurgaddi given to Guru Granth Sahib ji only.

Also calling AKJ a 'cult' is an insult and no Sikh with a heart would ever describe AKJ as a cult.

The seva AKJ have done for the panth is immense. It would be impossible for an insect like me to describe the seva AKJ have done for the panth. It was members of the AKJ and DDT who gave their lives for the panth in 1978 and 1984:

Bhai Randhir Singh spent 16 years of his life in jail when the British knocked down the sacred wall of Gurdwara sri Rakab Ganj. Also bhai sahib has written over 40 books related to Gurmat.

http://www.neverforget84.com/1978-shaheeds

http://www.neverforget84.com/1978-am...ani-hari-singh

Bhai Jeevan Singh ( Dheli 1991 ) - YouTube

This is bhai Jeevan Singh ji who was a companion of bhai Randhir Singh and has done kirtan seva all over the world. Bhai Sahib is one of the most kind and humble Gursikhs anyone is likely to meet and yet he is part of this 'cult'.

I bow my head to the seva of this 'cult'. Is striving to adhere to the rehit of Guru ji wrong? Is doing kirtan all night wrong? Is organising amrit sanchars wrong? Is keeping alive the rehit of dastaar for women wrong?

It easy to write a few comments on a forum. Real seva is done with actions. The actions of the Akhand Kirtani Jatha speak for themselves. Even today worldwide they organise kirtan smagams where the praises of the lord are sung all night long.

May Guru Sahib bless this insect with the sangat of this 'cult'.

I hope one day the biased views towards AKJ, DDT and other panthic Jatha's from the admin of this forum subsides.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37417

Lets focus on the qualities of our brothers and sisters:
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37417

Saanjh kareejai guna keri, chhod avgun chaliyai|| - ang 766

Share the virtues/qualities of Gursikhs and remove our own bad qualities/weaknesses and walk on the path towards Waheguru.

Satguru Mehar Karan