Nirmalas: Aatma, Parmatma, Indivisibility of Soul, etc.

Ambarsaria · #1 (**permalink**) 12-Oct-2011, 02:40 AM

Thinking aloud as we have subtle hints on mixing Sikhism, Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji with other shasters, etc. Prominent among such are the Nirmalas. Wiki general definition as in follows,

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Nirmala

Quote:

Nirmala teachings incorporated Sikh teachings and doctrines within a largely Hindu/Vedantic framework. Nirmala Study any kind of spiritual knowledge book like Vedas, Puranas, katebs. Like the Udasis they were celibates, and did not believe in holding private funds. The Nirmalas, with the Udasis, form part of the Sanatan Sikh world-view and share many of its beliefs; along with belief in yogic/meditative and scriptural recitation and study. In addition to the Adi Granth, they rely on the Vedas, Shastras, Puranas and Epic literature. It is not surprising therefore that their Sanatan position does pitch them against the so-called Tat Khalsa which some Sikhs classify as fanatic version of Sikhism.

This possible confusion of Sikh Gurbani and coloring of the same with this process could have positive and negative effects.

What do you think?

Sat Sri Akal.

Kanwaljit Singh · #2 (**permalink**) 12-Oct-2011, 02:48 AM

Only the True color stays, rest all get washed away. Are you talking about effects on the person or outside group?

Ambarsaria · #3 (**permalink**) 12-Oct-2011, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanwaljit Singh

Only the True color stays, rest all get washed away. Are you talking about effects on the person or outside group?

Kanwaljit Singh ji I was wondering for its effect on new to Sikhi and the young. See also a possible link,

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-t...tml#post154643

Sat Sri Akal.

Kanwaljit Singh · #4 (**permalink**) 12-Oct-2011, 03:07 AM

Hmm sadly the likes of us have not thought so deep. But I believe knowledge is something which cannot be created. Only the Creator can do so. And the knowledge is not gifted either to the Sikhs only. This small bits of knowledge shared amongst all, will help people in mixing up things. So to be safe, let's not forget what Guru has Said.

Seeker9 · #5 (**permalink**) 12-Oct-2011, 04:10 AM

Well I have learned something new today!

Had never heard of Nirmalas before so will read further
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sanatan-sikhism/37205-nirmalas-aatma-parmatma-indivisibility-soul-etc.html

Thanks

spnadmin · #6 (**permalink**) 12-Oct-2011, 06:49 AM

The thread is moved to Sanatan Sikhism. Of note: the Nirmalas, although they revere SBBS, do not consider Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji the only sacred text for Sikhism. They give parkash to vedic scriptures. They also participate in purification rituals with members of yogic sects on an annual basis. Their history said to be engendered by Sri Guru Gobind Singh with the purpose to study Sanskrit and teach those texts is also disputed by Sikh scholars. Let us tread carefully.

Kanwaljit Singh · #7 (**permalink**) 12-Oct-2011, 07:40 AM

Besides, it is a myth that Guru Gobind Singh Ji sent some Sikhs in disguise to Kashi to learn Sanskrit from the Brahmans. Nirmalas claim that Sikhs, who were sent in disguise by Guru Gobind Singh Ji to Kashi to learn Sanskrit from Brahmans, founded their organization. It is more likely that Brahmins made up this story.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37205
Furthermore, it seems reasonable to believe that Brahmins started this organization in Sikh disguise. The story of Nirmalas is full of holes. There is no evidence that Guru Gobind Singh’s predecessors sent Sikhs anywhere to learn Sanskrit. What was the need for learning Sanskrit during the time of Guru Gobind Singh Ji?

If for the sake of argument, we believe that Guru Gobind Singh Ji wanted Sikhs to learn Sanskrit to study ancient Indian literature, where did Guru Gobind Singh Ji, Guru Nanak Ji or Guru Arjan Ji go to learn Sanskrit? Did they go to Kashi? It is quite possible that some medium for learning Sanskrit was available in Punjab so the need for Sikhs to go to Kashi to study Sanskrit does not arise.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji had many scholars and poets with him at Anandpur Sahib; couldn’t he hire few Sanskrit teachers? Were the scholars, who translated Sanskrit texts into Braj Bhasa, not competent enough to teach Sanskrit? Let us suppose further that Guru did send some Sikhs to Kashi. What were their names and where did they come from? Is there any biographical information available about them? What did those Sikhs do with their knowledge of Sanskrit? Did they teach Sanskrit to Sikhs or translated Gurbani into Sanskrit?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37205

Moreover, Nirmala organization was started under the patronage of feudal lords, the Rajas of Patiala, Nabha and Jind in 1918. There is no surprise in it! Throughout history rulers have used clergy to keep their subjects ignorant so that they could exploit them without any resistance and public outcry.

Source: http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Nirmala

spnadmin · #8 (**permalink**) 12-Oct-2011, 08:15 AM

Kanwaljt Singh ji
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37205

Thank you for providing the relevant details. Again and Again, Thank You!

Kanwaljit Singh · #9 (**permalink**) 12-Oct-2011, 08:39 AM

It's SikhWiki, which was mentioned by Ambarsaria ji. Now going back to the topic!

Quote:

This possible confusion of Sikh Gurbani and coloring of the same with this process could have positive and negative effects.

What do you think?

Effects of repackaging Gurbani as Vedantic philosophy and distributing it. What positive/negative effects?

I think there will be hardly any positive. The clergy will be create a strong roll for themselves in this case. People who are influenced will never read Guru Granth Sahib themselves.

There was a video lately of one of the Nirmala Sants going to someone's place and quietly enjoying overdone hospitalization. (Something most babas end up with at one point or another)

Nirmala Sant Balbir Singh Seechewal being worshipped like a guru - YouTube