Gurudwara Or Singh Sabha?

itsmaneet · #1 (**permalink**) 18-Jul-2012, 19:22 PM

I recently heard a Katha being done by Sarabjit Singh Dunda from a Delhi Gurudwara. He suggested that only "Historical" Gurudwaras should be considered as Gurudwaras & others just as "Singh Sabha" ... as according to him many number of Gurdwaras are dividing our religion.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/questions-and-answers/38800-gurudwara-or-singh-sabha.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38800

I personally do not agree to his this suggestion & believe that where ever Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is present, it is a Gurdwara.

What you people think?
*

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #2 (**permalink**) 18-Jul-2012, 21:38 PM

we already have...TAKHAT..and GURDWARA !! After all What is takhat..just another Gurdawra with Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Parkash...so whats the big deal ?? Maybe big deal..maybe small deal..maybe no deal...but still there is a precedent...
Of course there is also a difference between my local Gurdwara and Harmandar Sahib Amritsar...Baba deep singh gurdwara..or Darbar sahib taran taran !!
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38800
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38800
So YES..the "differences" are already there..we just have to categorise..and grade them accordingly...Local Gurdwara, Major Gurdwara, Historical Gurdwara, Big Gurdwara, beautiful Gurdwara...whatever...but the BITTER TRUTH is the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is just present for SHOW..the Gurbani is NOT for practising but matha teking and rituals.

Hardip Singh · #3 (**permalink**) 19-Jul-2012, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gyani Jarnail Singh

we already have...TAKHAT..and GURDWARA !! After all What is takhat..just another Gurdawra with Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Parkash...so whats the big deal ?? Maybe big deal..maybe small deal..maybe no deal...but still there is a precedent...
Of course there is also a difference between my local Gurdwara and Harmandar Sahib Amritsar...Baba deep singh gurdwara..or Darbar sahib taran taran !!
So YES..the "differences" are already there..we just have to categorise..and grade them accordingly...Local Gurdwara, Major Gurdwara, Historical Gurdwara, Big Gurdwara, beautiful Gurdwara...whatever...but the BITTER TRUTH is the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is just present for SHOW..the Gurbani is NOT for practising but matha teking and rituals.

Gyanni jee,
Historical places have a distinct place in a Sikh's life as it has some historical significance beside having Parkash of our reverened Guru Granth Sahib jee. By going to such historical places, one gets united with his history and certain inner feelings which one can't have at a normal local Gurdwara Sahib. Try it, Sir.
So, a diferentation has to be there.

Kanwaljit Singh · #4 (**permalink**) 19-Jul-2012, 12:39 PM

vin naavai naahee ko thhaao ||
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38800

What about Sikhs? Those Sikhs from Guru's bloodlines will also be called Sahibzade Sikhs?

harry haller · #5 (**permalink**) 19-Jul-2012, 15:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardip Singh

Gyanni jee,
Historical places have a distinct place in a Sikh's life as it has some historical significance beside having Parkash of our reverened Guru Granth Sahib jee. By going to such historical places, one gets united with his history and certain inner feelings which one can't have at a normal local Gurdwara Sahib. Try it, Sir.
So, a diferentation has to be there.

Some could say historical places do nothing other than focus the attention on the Gurus. Instead of contemplating Creator or contemplating Bani, we oooh and aaaaaah over items from history that have associations with the Gurus, these items are then Matha Teked, and prayers are said, and instead of the historical item and story being cherished, it has replaced Creator as a focus.

I think we should have more museums, I certainly find Sikh history riveting, but in worshipping it, we are no better than our Vedic friends in pointless ritual and empty practices.

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #6 (**permalink**) 19-Jul-2012, 16:36 PM

That is also the BASIC conflict now being discussed on the Bluestar memorial cum Gurdwara !!
A MEMORIAL is NEVER a church, Masjid, Mandir, Synagogue or Gurdawra !! A MEMORIAL is a MEMORIAL. PERIOD. So WHY are SIKH MEMORIALS "Gurdwaras" ?? ALL Birthplaces of Gurus, ALL other HISTORICAL places of GURUS are ALL "GURDWARAS/TAKHATS"...and so these are palces for mere collection of GOLUCK, where devotees come, matha tek, partake langgar, have a piping hot chah, maybe some delicasies sweets etc and depart. We are extremely LUCKY IF such a place DOES NOT HAVE a old tree trunk..or a twig..or a pair of slippers, chair, manja etc etc..encased in a GLASS case with a small note saying it belongs to such and such a Guru..and there is a GOLUCK and Matha Teking is standard practice. WHAT "HISTORICAL" knowledge is imparted ?? What History is taught to young visitors ? Most places in fact have TOTALLY WRONG "facts" prominently displayed on Huge Bill boards..giving out information thats against GURBANI and Gurmatt and condemned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji !!..BUT effective in creating more wealth in GOLUCKS !!
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38800
I have visited severla Historical Gurdawras...none has any museums..none has any Multi media exhibitions etc. Even the Biggest SIKH MUSEUM in Darbar sahib Complex is just a place with PICTURES Hanging on walls..no effort has been made to bring in IT..new ways of parchaar etc. There was an attempt o construct a modern museum in Khadoor sahib..but after a while most of ist multi media computer screens are either broken, missing or covered in dust - no maint or upgrade was ever carried out after the INITIAL set up...
But it can be said SIKHS are very BIG into MARBLE GURDWARAS..each and every HISTORICAL BUILDING, houses, FORTS either are in disrepair and CRUMBLING..or been DEMOLISHED and buried UNDER spanking new Marble GURDWARAS !!
IN MALAYSIA too we have Historicla Gurdawras..but i doubt if even 0.1% of malaysian Sikhs know anything about these...becasue they also contain just Golucks and langgars as normal Gurdwaras....Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is parkash and usual wekely progs take place. I doubt many know thta the Famous Kama Gata Maru or GURU NANAK JAHAAZ incident in Vancouver is based in a small MALAYSIAN TOWN hwere Gursitt singh sarhali was residnet when he got the idea of kamagata maru !!

itsmaneet · #7 (**permalink**) 19-Jul-2012, 18:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gyani Jarnail Singh

That is also the BASIC conflict now being discussed on the Bluestar memorial cum Gurdwara !!
A MEMORIAL is NEVER a church, Masjid, Mandir, Synagogue or Gurdawra !! A MEMORIAL is a MEMORIAL. PERIOD. So WHY are SIKH MEMORIALS "Gurdwaras" ?? ALL Birthplaces of Gurus, ALL other HISTORICAL places of GURUS are ALL "GURDWARAS/TAKHATS"...and so these are palces for mere collection of GOLUCK, where devotees come, matha tek, partake langgar, have a piping hot chah, maybe some delicasies sweets etc and depart. We are extremely LUCKY IF such a place DOES NOT HAVE a old tree trunk..or a twig..or a pair of slippers, chair, manja etc etc..encased in a GLASS case with a small note saying it belongs to such and such a Guru..and there is a GOLUCK and Matha Teking is standard practice. WHAT "HISTORICAL" knowledge is imparted ?? What History is taught to young visitors ? Most places in fact have TOTALLY WRONG "facts" prominently displayed on Huge Bill boards..giving out information thats against GURBANI and Gurmatt and condemned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji !!..BUT effective in creating more wealth in GOLUCKS !!
I have visited severla Historical Gurdawras...none has any museums..none has any Multi media exhibitions etc. Even the Biggest SIKH MUSEUM in Darbar sahib Complex is just a place with PICTURES Hanging on walls..no effort has been made to bring in IT..new ways of parchaar etc. There was an attempt o construct a modern museum in Khadoor sahib..but after a while most of ist multi media computer screens are either broken, missing or covered in dust - no maint or upgrade was ever carried out after the INITIAL set up...
But it can be said SIKHS are very BIG into MARBLE GURDWARAS..each and every HISTORICAL BUILDING, houses, FORTS either are in disrepair and CRUMBLING..or been DEMOLISHED and buried UNDER spanking new Marble GURDWARAS !!
IN MALAYSIA too we have Historicla Gurdawras..but i doubt if even 0.1% of malaysian Sikhs know anything about these...becasue they also contain just Golucks and langgars as normal Gurdwaras....Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is parkash and usual wekely progs take place. I doubt many know thta the Famous Kama Gata Maru or GURU NANAK JAHAAZ incident in Vancouver is based in a small MALAYSIAN TOWN hwere Gursitt singh sarhali was residnet when he got the idea of kamagata maru !!

Yes, you are right & I agree with your views. Couple of years back I had a chance to see Gurudwara at Kuantan, Malaysia. No doubts is beautiful & i was there for 30 min. but cudn't see a single sewadar inside. Infact there was not a single human in Gurudwara Sahib ....

Regarding prachar, actually we are lacking in our prachars & obviously coz our leaders are busy heating their chairs. Though it's the responsibility of each Sikh to educate his bro & sis about our treasure "Sikhism" but that alone wudn't do the purpose. We need modernize prachar through trained pracharak who are strictly speaking on Gurbani & just "GURBANI".

Also, I agree that SGPC being the highest authority managing affairs has failed miserably to upgrade the museum. 1000s foreigners visit Golden Temple & they remain unknow to our customs, our history etc... forget foreigners even our youth remain unknown...

Anyways, may Waheguru give some brain to the top posts to work for what they are seated by Waheguru..

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh ..

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #8 (**permalink**) 19-Jul-2012, 21:26 PM

In the early days when i was younger and as a journalist i had a chance to go on a country wide tour of Malaysin Gurdwars accompanying a Akali minister from Punjab..early 1970's..many Gurdwaras we visited were EMPTY of any snagat or even Sevadaars..just buildings..obviously someone would just parkash the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and then disappear until night to coem and do sukhassan....at the Gurdwara GOPENG, when we arrived..there was a PACK OF DOGS surrounding a ***** in heat seated or sleeping in the darbaar Hall with the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji paraksh !! ( Like what they say happened in hemkunt Gurdawra where a Group of Bears came to hibernate and give birth etc inside the darbaar sahib !!) Being young and very inexperienced..i wrote about this..as "Gurdwara vich KUTTIAN DA RAAJ "..and this rasied a storm...i was being very rude..insensitive..how could the Raaj karega Khalsa be turned int Kuttian da Raaj blah blah...but no body could deny that dogs lounging inside a Gurdawra in the presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a DISGRACE..shoot the messenger they said..i had a good laugh at these arguments...There was one Gurdwara whcih ahd a Malay sevadaar...on being questioned about how he could serve as sevadaar..he replied..OH its EASY....BUKA BUKU TUTUP BUKU ( OPEN BOOK CLOSE BOOK ) menaing every morning i just Open Book and evening I close Book (parkash sukhsassan of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ) Thats all..very simple work. In another Gurdawra the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji were left for so long the termites ate them...long story....at one time we had 160 Gurdawras...now most of them are vacant of sangat...freehold properties of the kaum being used as free living grounds by some people..some rented out etc etc...