Overcoming Five Vices

Sikh80 · #1 (**permalink**) 25-Mar-2008, 07:57 AM

SCANNED

Overcoming Five Vices: What are These

Within this body dwell the five thieves:
sexual desire, anger, greed, emotional attachment and egotism.

They plunder the Nectar, but the self-willed manmukh does not realize it;...

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji page 600

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/new-to-sikhism/20737-overcoming-five-vices.html
Gurbani

1). Wastes the body

Lust and wrath wastes the body away, as borax melts gold.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji page 932

2). Sexually promiscuous

a). Abandoning own partner

With bowl in hand, wearing his patched coat, great desires well up in his mind.

Abandoning his own wife, he is engrossed in sexual desire; his thoughts are on the wives of others.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji page 1013

b). Painful diseases

Painful diseases afflict those who are sexually promiscuous.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji page 1189

3). Wounds of the soul

Sexual desire and anger are the wounds of the soul.
The evil-minded ones forget the Naam, and then depart. ॥2॥

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji page 152

4). Lead to ruin

Sexual desire, anger, and egotism lead to ruin.
Meditating on the Lord, the Lord's humble servants are redeemed. ॥1॥

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji page 388

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20737
5). Suffer in pain

For a moment of sexual pleasure, you shall suffer in pain for millions of days.

For an instant, you may savor pleasure, but afterwards, you shall regret it, again and again.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji page 403

6). About Purity of Virginity

Let the remembrance of death be the patched coat you wear, let the purity of virginity
be your way in the world, and let faith in the Lord be your walking stick.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji page 6

Huck_Finn · #2 (**permalink**) 25-Mar-2008, 08:36 AM

<<ਖਿੰਥਾ ਕਾਲੁ ਕੁਆਰੀ ਕਾਇਆ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਡੰਡਾ ਪਰਤੀਤਿ ॥ >>>
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20737
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20737

i am not sure if the translation for this shabd is correct. just a hunch.

any opinions of other learned members?

Narayanjot Kaur · #3 (**permalink**) 25-Mar-2008, 09:37 AM

amarsanghera ji

This is the Gurmukhi, transliteration, English combination

ਖਿੰਥਾ ਕਾਲੁ ਕੁਆਰੀ ਕਾਇਆ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਡੰਡਾ ਪਰਤੀਤਿ ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20737
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20737
khinthhaa kaal kuaaree kaaeiaa jugath ddanddaa paratheeth ||
Let the remembrance of death be the patched coat you wear, let the purity of virginity be your way in the world, and let faith in the Lord be your walking stick.

I think you are saying that the English translation may not be correct; Sikh80 ji giving only the English. Just clarifying the question -- because the original comment is a few postings away from your question.

Narayanjot Kaur · #4 (**permalink**) 25-Mar-2008, 09:57 AM

amarsanghera ji.

Well I am ready. Maybe others will reply first. Brief response is: That the translation in correct in concept, but the translator has the problem of all translators. How to make sense of the line in a way that captures the intent of Guru Nanak in the context of the shabad; is as poetic in translation as it is in the original; and makes sense in English.

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Added later: Here are 4 different English translations of the same line. khinthhaa kaal kuaaree kaaeiaa jugath ddanddaa paratheeth ||
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20737

Let the remembrance of death be the patched coat you wear, let the purity of virginity be your way in the world, and let faith in the Lord be your walking stick. Sahib Singh Khalsa

The thought of death; aspiration of the bride to be; and faith in the Lord be your walking stick. Gopal Singh

Let thought of death be thy patched coat, chastity like that of virgin's body, thy life's department and faith in God thy staff. Bhai Manmohan Singh.

Wear the fear of death as your coat (made of patches), make chastity like that of a virgin, your path to achieve union and faith in God as your walking stick. Harbhans Singh Doabia
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20737

Not only are all translations embellishments of the original 7 words, but there are important differences in meaning because the grammatical constructions are not the same. E.G. In two of them the thought of death, the virginal state of the bride to be, and faith in God are to be considered like a staff or walking stick, our support. And 2 others only faith in God is compared to a staff or walking stick, our support.
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But let's see what happens.

What the members who are learned have to say.

Randip Singh · #5 (**permalink**) 25-Mar-2008, 19:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aad0002

amarsanghera ji

This is the Gurmukhi, transliteration, English combination

ਖਿੰਥਾ ਕਾਲੁ ਕੁਆਰੀ ਕਾਇਆ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਡੰਡਾ ਪਰਤੀਤਿ ॥
khinthhaa kaal kuaaree kaaeiaa jugath ddanddaa paratheeth ||
Let the remembrance of death be the patched coat you wear, let the purity of virginity be your way in the world, and let faith in the Lord be your walking stick.

I think you are saying that the English translation may not be correct; Sikh80 ji giving only the English. Just clarifying the question -- because the original comment is a few postings away from your question.

I don't think this Shabad is talking about physical virginity? waht do others think? I would also like to see entire Angs and not one or two lines.

I would also question whether "Kaam" means sexual desire. Sexual desire is a natural phenomenen put in our bodies to ensure we procreate and continue future genrations. If we say sexual desire is the problem, then even our Guru's procreated, then they must be imperfect. Kaam I would say is an OBSESSION with wanting sex. Letting the desire to procreate taint your mind and make decisiopns for you. It leads you rather than you lead it. Any thoughts on this?

Narayanjot Kaur · #6 (**permalink**) 25-Mar-2008, 20:50 PM

Randip, I agree. Something very subtle is being said in the shabad, that none of the translators managed to convey.

Guru ji is saying, Cover or May you cover yourself with the coat of death (loss of ego), Let purity or chastity of character be your yoga (your way of connecting with the world), Make belief in God your support, your walking stick.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20737

I see the phrasing the way I do because it is in Pauree 28 and that phrasing matches other phrasing in the pauree. It fits with the earlier line - Let humility be your begging bowl, etc. Also some of the Punjabi words, for example, jugath, have several levels of meaning. Jugath can mean yoga, but also means making a connection. Other constructions of words are more like metaphors. kuaaree means virgin and kaaeiaa means body. Together they seem to say body of a virgin, but in context Guruji is talking about spiritual qualities. I don't think Guruji is saying Have the body of a virgin, but have the chastity of mind, a virginal lmind. khinthhaa means overcoat. Kaal means death or ending, but not the same sense of death as mar or maraan. Kaal is more like a personal ending, not death as a phenomenon (mar), so when you cover yourself with death your ego dies or ends.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20737

My weak efforts.

Randip Singh · #7 (**permalink**) 26-Mar-2008, 16:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aad0002

Randip, I agree. Something very subtle is being said in the shabad, that none of the translators managed to convey.

Guru ji is saying, Cover or May you cover yourself with the coat of death (loss of ego), Let purity or chastity of character be your yoga (your way of connecting with the world), Make belief in God your support, your walking stick.

I see the phrasing the way I do because it is in Pauree 28 and that phrasing matches other phrasing in the pauree. It fits with the earlier line - Let humility be your begging bowl, etc. Also some of the Punjabi words, for example, jugath, have several levels of meaning. Jugath can mean yoga, but also means making a connection. Other constructions of words are more like metaphors. kuaaree means virgin and kaaeiaa means body. Together they seem to say body of a virgin, but in context Guruji is talking about spiritual qualities. I don't think Guruji is saying Have the body of a virgin, but have the chastity of mind, a virginal lmind. khinthhaa means overcoat. Kaal means death or ending, but not the same sense of death as mar or maraan. Kaal is more like a personal ending, not death as a phenomenon (mar), so when you cover yourself with death your ego dies or ends.

My weak efforts.

Virginil or Pure Mind, I think you jhave hit the nail on the head.