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Lava in Guru Granth Sahib

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granth, guru, lava, lavan, lawan, marriage vows, sahib
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 18-Jan-2011, 17:20 PM
Nirmaljot Baidwan's Avatar Nirmaljot Baidwan Nirmaljot Baidwan is offline
 
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Re: Lava in Guru Granth Sahib

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SAT SRI AKAAL JI
I m new here. As i was searching the internet for laavan i found this page and read some comments. The laavan were first said by Guru Nanak dev ji on his marriage. I have read this in the janam saakhi which was written at the time of second guru Sri guru Angad dev ji. The Janam sakhi was quoted by bhai Bala.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 18-Jan-2011, 17:35 PM
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Re: Lava in Guru Granth Sahib

Respected Nirmaljot Baidwan ji,
What you say is not possible as the laavan were written by Guru Ram Das ji (soohi mehla 4). You may also be interested in this video about the Bala Janamsakhi;
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sakhis...nam-sakhi.html
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 29-Jan-2011, 09:59 AM
Nirmaljot Baidwan's Avatar Nirmaljot Baidwan Nirmaljot Baidwan is offline
 
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Re: Lava in Guru Granth Sahib

@findingmyway
brother i have noted down around about 30 points which they mentioned, and i will do research on them. I m not going to accept that just coz they said it.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/history-of-sikhism/6681-lava-in-guru-granth-sahib.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=6681

One thing that i will object right here is that they mentioned the use of tarkhaan in the janam sakhi but my friend i have the janam sakhi and that too quite an older version , the word "baadhi" is used a lots of time. I'll be back with more.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 29-Jan-2011, 13:21 PM
Gyani Jarnail Singh's Avatar Gyani Jarnail Singh Gyani Jarnail Singh is offline
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Re: Lava in Guru Granth Sahib

One Marriage that took place according to the Anand Karaj ( NOT Hndu Panditology system) was BHAI KAMLIAH and Bibi MATHEH MURARI during the time of Emperor Akbar and Guru Amardass Ji. A Complaint was lodged with the Mughal Court that such marriages hsould eb banned becasue they are NOT PURE. Guru Amardass Ji dispatched Bhai Jetha Ji who was his son-in law to Delhi to explain to the Emperor ref to this matter.
The Emperor Akbar on listening to Bhai jetha Ji's explanation that those who were following the Panth of GURU NANAK were NOT HINDUS and thus entitled to their own ways. The Emperor agreed and threw the complaint out. Bhai jetha Ji later became GURU RAMDASS JI.

The Crown Prince of NABHA State Prince RIPUDAMAN SINGH who was a Member of the Viceroy Council in 1907. After a consultation with sikh scholars and academicians and granthis Sikh Organsiations etc he decided to bring a BILL in the VC on 30th Oct 1908. This issue rasied a storm...his own father..Maharja Hira Singh of Nabha oppsoed his son's proposal. Hundreds of Sikh socieites and granthis etc passed resolutions opposing this Anand Karaj Bill. NO Sikh of any stature dared to voice his support to the Crown Prince Ripudaman Singh who was a Progressive Sikh. The Maharja Nabha Hira Singh had the funds of Nabha State and he caused hundreds of pamphlets and tracts to be published not only in Punjabi but English and in many Indian languages. This Protest was being instigated by the Pandits who stood to lose so many "clients" iF sikhs began to discard the Hindu marriage and start doing the Anand Karaj. The British Govt published the BILL on the Sikh Anand Karaj in their Official Gazette and all over India to gauge its support among the sikh population. Thus a verbal war broke out among Sikhs dividing them into two Groups ( exactly what is happening today !!..so we have actually been RUNNING ON THE SPOT for the past 100 years....we cannot AGREE on anything..be it DG issue, Raagmala, meat-veg issue, banis 5 or 7, calendar issue, gurpurabs issues, sant issues, dera issues, badal/congress issues..whatever ??) ANYWAY the British were disappointed by the Protests and placed the Anand Marriage Bill in the Freezer for a few years.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=6681
Suddenly a major Sikh Leader Sir Sunder Singh majhithiah came out in SUPPORT of the now FROZEN Bill. He was a Member of the VC and he bagn a new campaign to get it passed.This may have been due to the way another SIKH millionaire Dyal Singh majhithiah ( Owner of the TRIBUNE GROUP of Newspapers that were founded with SIKH money but are controlled by Hindu Arya Samajists and used as for anti-sikh issues) Dyal Sighs case was fought until the Privy Council London.
Majhithia was Secretray of the CKD Chief Khalsa Diwan and although very close to Maharaja Hira Singh nabha, he came out in suppoet of his son Ripudaman singh nabha and the Anand Marriage Act. The CKD went from village to village popularising the Bill and garnering Sikh population support for the Bill.This was the first time the Ordinary SIKH was being told what was involved.
Then the Bill got a real big boost when SANT DARBARA SINGH NIRANKAREE founder of the NIRANKAREES boosted his cmapaign for the Anand Karaj vs the Hindu vedic marriage. ( these are the real and ORIGINAL NIRANKAREES as opposed to the Fake "nirankarees" who HIJACKED the Name of this Movment (and are called NARAKDHAREES due to their actions in 1978) who caused the 1978 vasakhi massacre in Amrtisar leading to the Ops Bluestar..and beyond). In fact Baba darbara Singh Nirankaree had his own anand karaj performed according to Anand karaj more than 20 years prior..in 1883...The Nirankaree Mission had been in the forefront of the Anand Marriage Ceremony for SIKHS in the Rawalpindi areas of Punjab.
The Entire Campaign is available in the British East India Archives and is about 5 huge Volumes. Letters, pamphlets, speeches, resolutions, newspaper articles, letters to the Editors, British secret reports etc..The Viceroy now despatched letters to all District Commissioners to gauge public opinion and write back to him. Most of the DCs gauged the right opinions and thus the Delhi Govt was convinced that the Anand Marriage was popular and accepted byt he SIKHS. However the Hindus speeded up their campaign. Pandits all over wnet about "advising" that all marriages under the AM were invalid, the children would be haramis (illegetimate) and whats more GOD would be angry as well if the Vedas were not followed. Due to the widespread influence of the local pandit..many rural sikhs were in a doubt and thus rather than offend the Pandit they opted for the vedic rather than stick their necks out for the AM.
Anyway the British Govt based on its feedback form DCs and officers all over came to the concluison that majority fo the SIKHS were in FAVOUR of the Ananad Marriage Bill and the oppsoing sikhs were a minority. Thus the Anand Marriage Act bill was tabled in the Viceroys Council and passed on 22 oct 1909 and made LAW all over BRITISH INDIA which at that time included Burma, Bangladesh, Pakistan etc. Moreover SIKHS by then had also migrated to malaya, Canada, Usa, Europe, HongKong etc etc.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 29-Jan-2011, 13:47 PM
Nirmaljot Baidwan's Avatar Nirmaljot Baidwan Nirmaljot Baidwan is offline
 
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Re: Lava in Guru Granth Sahib

@gyani jarnail singh-
I was talking about Bala janam sakhi authenticity and the video link which was posted by findingmyway. There were many points made in the discussion in the video about authenticity of Bala janam sakhi. I m doing research on that but if u have any knowledge about that matter then please share. i hope u have seen the video.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 29-Jan-2011, 14:01 PM
Gyani Jarnail Singh's Avatar Gyani Jarnail Singh Gyani Jarnail Singh is offline
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Re: Lava in Guru Granth Sahib

Sikhs have always had a tendency to take words at the superficial level...and they apply this level of understanding to the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Gurbani as well.
Hence the use of the Laavan - (Suhi Mhalla 4 means GURU RAMDASS JI is the Author and thus no question of Guru nanak ji using them )...as for "worldy marriage ceremony". Then various shabds were chosen based on superficial meanings...Janj Kurrmai Iayah..Hum Ghar Sajaan ayeh..viah hoah mereh babala..etc etc and ADDEd to the Anand karaj Ceremony. The GURBANI is UNIVERSAL..is a LOT DEEPER in Spiritual Meanings thna the mere superficial look at the "Janjis" streaming in behind the Groom as Hum Ghar Sajaan ayeh..or the Brides father as Viah hoa mere Babla etc.
GURU JI wrote many Shabads for OUR SPIRITUAL GUIDANCE..even for certain ceremonies..like Ghorreean, alahanniah..marriage ceremony etc. This was to give us soemthing UNIQUELY SIKH and also a SPIRITUAL LESSON at the same time.
Hence the Laavan are SPIRITUAL as well as can be used at a ceremony.
At least SIKHS can UNDERSTAND (even if very superficially) what the ragis are singing...in the Laavan and the Shabads attached to the ceremony..the HINDUS cant get a word in becasue the Pandit MUTTERS soem ancient Sanskrit Mantras which make no head or tail to the ordinary Hindu Guests/bride and groom etc. At a Hindu Marriage I attended recently, the Groom's daddy hapened to be a BRAHMIN but not practising Panditology becasue he was a buisness tycoon. On several ocassion s he STOPPED the Pandit and told him..Arey Pandit ji..aap GALAT MANTAR parrh rahen hain..OH Pandit you are reading the WRONG MANTRA....and the Pandit sheepishly admitted each time..I am NEW !! BUT none of the others noticed anything...presumably becasue they KNEW NOTHING.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=6681
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=6681
WE differ on 3 major grounds..The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not a "fire devta"..its our Living GURU.
The ragis are not muttering mantras in a dead long forgotten language..the gurbani is contemporary and avilable to all and sundry who wnat to know and is simple language understood by all and thirdly the ceremony is SPIRITUALLY significant as its one man one wife for ever. No divorce.
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 29-Jan-2011, 14:06 PM
Gyani Jarnail Singh's Avatar Gyani Jarnail Singh Gyani Jarnail Singh is offline
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Re: Lava in Guru Granth Sahib

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirmaljot Baidwan View Post
@gyani jarnail singh-
I was talking about Bala janam sakhi authenticity and the video link which was posted by findingmyway. There were many points made in the discussion in the video about authenticity of Bala janam sakhi. I m doing research on that but if u have any knowledge about that matter then please share. i hope u have seen the video.
Nirmaljot Ji,
The Bhai bala janamsakhi has been discredited based on lots of points. Its language is similar to Gurbilas Patshi Chhevin a book ostensibly biographical of Guru hargobind Ji and the later book called Bachittra natak Granth (DG) that one supposedly autobiography of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. No such person called Bhai bala is mentioned in Sikh History.
Please carry on your research. Will be pleasing to read. My Best wishes
Js

Note: I have a copy of the Punjab Uni treatise on this Janamsakhi edited by Surinder Singh Kohli/Jagjit Singh in PUNJABI. Its a very good source of info on this and other "janamsakhis". If you like I can provide some materials form it...later.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 29-Jan-2011, 14:12 PM
Nirmaljot Baidwan's Avatar Nirmaljot Baidwan Nirmaljot Baidwan is offline
 
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Re: Lava in Guru Granth Sahib

@gyani ji
u said the first marriage according to Anand karaj took place at the time of Guru Amardas ji. Guru ramdas ji did not hav gurtagaddi at that time , as u said that lavaan were written by guru ramdass ji then how come at the time of guru amardas ji a marriage according to Anand karaj could take place???
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 29-Jan-2011, 14:14 PM
Nirmaljot Baidwan's Avatar Nirmaljot Baidwan Nirmaljot Baidwan is offline
 
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Re: Lava in Guru Granth Sahib

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What i mean to say is that just because at the time of anand karaj paathis recite the laavan written by guru ramdass ji does not imply that other gurus could not write the laavan. Yeah, may be the laavan written by other gurus were not included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji by guru Arjun Dev ji.
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