Women in Sikhi

Navdeep88 · #1 (**permalink**) 20-Nov-2011, 02:56 AM

I have an issue that's troubling me... It seems like not only in Sikh History but the current identity of Sikhi is shaped heavily by men.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/37631-women-in-sikhi.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37631

Recently, there was a pole on here about who the most influential figures were in Sikh History... not a single woman on the list. And usually the only woman who gets credit is Mai Bhago, sadly I think it's because she stepped into what was considered a male role.

Why are women overlooked so often in Sikh History? I don't have an issue with having 10 fathers, at all. But why are women shoved so far behind... they're virtually voiceless. And when a woman DOES have a voice (ie. Maharani Jinda), its almost shown to be off putting or unfeminine. Often times, a lamenting female is shown to be more acceptable... is that still the accepted idea of femininity??

This is also prevalent today. I speak from what I am exposed to: there is a growing culture of Sikh male rappers. Why is it that they can have the image of a Sikh, be lauded for what they're doing, preach about this and that and still make songs about how they want a girl with nice lips and nice hips? Or act like a woman supposed to be revolving around a man, like that's her sole role in life. Say things like "I'm the earth and she's the moon, and God's the sun." Yea, right. How about co-planets??

What are your thoughts on this issue? Sikhi's supposed to be about equality, and self-sufficiency... why do these archaic ideas have so much weight and are totally acceptable?

Kanwaljit Singh · #2 (**permalink**) 20-Nov-2011, 03:28 AM

Quote:

And usually the only woman who gets credit is Mai Bhago, sadly I think it's because she stepped into what was considered a male role.

That's a very interesting observation. But whenever I read about her, I see a Sikh who took up arms to protect her Guru and left everything behind to run to the battle field!

Quote:

But why are women shoved so far behind... they're virtually voiceless.

That is not true if we see it from Gurbani point of view.

Quote:

Often times, a lamenting female is shown to be more acceptable... is that still the accepted idea of femininity??

It is hard to say what subset are you trying to observe. But yes in Indian, Punjabi and most male psyche, that is kind of true. Many men find assertive women a bit 'attractive' but only as long as they don't assert themselves on them.

Quote:

Why is it that they can have the image of a Sikh, be lauded for what they're doing, preach about this and that and still make songs about how they want a girl with nice lips and nice hips?

Hehe there is free will, but I don't approve of it.

Quote:

Or act like a woman supposed to be revolving around a man, like that's her sole role in life. Say things like "I'm the earth and she's the moon, and God's the sun." Yea, right. How about co-planets??

Hmm that is indeed very true. Most of the people would have that view of life (even if they don't consider themselves to be the sun!). The Anand Karaj does not talk about someone revolving around something. It talks about merging. Becoming one.

Quote:

What are your thoughts on this issue? Sikhi's supposed to be about equality, and self-sufficiency... why do these archaic ideas have so much weight and are totally acceptable?

I have teenage punjabi girls telling me, that while their brothers are encouraged to drink with the family, they are asked not to do so at all. Why is this happening? Well you all can guess how that girl feels and how she rebels.

I once wanted my cousin to mention this to her father 'Why are you being forced to become a doctor while your brother is allowed to go for business undergrad?' She never asked and although her father got easy on her soon, I knew he was being partial in the beginning.

Why in the world we have different expectations from our daughters, sisters and mothers? While we are different towards our brothers, sons and fathers?

I don't know. I have no idea how much of a sexist I am myself..

But I know how much my mom is responsible for giving me Sikh values. She is the first and most important person as far as my religion is concerned. I remember when I was small, she would read at least 2 saakhis every night before I went to sleep. She taught me Punjabi, and the Baanis of Japuji Sahib, Rehras Sahib etc. She always took me to Bangla Sahib every sunday and almost daily in the evening to local Gurudwara. She took such good care of my hair, she washed and combed it properly, kept it uncut for me, such that I have now really beautiful tresses (though I cannot manage them so well on my own!). She still makes Karah Prasad on every sangraand/gurupurab and does Sehaj Paath on and on for the family. She has taught me the value of honesty, truth and being fearless. She never took up the caste we had, and made sure that it was not included in my name on birth certificate. And yes, all the while we had walks around the colony, we would talk endlessly about Sikhi. The women who saw their children getting killed and into a garland around them, had no names. Yet they are an ever lasting symbol of importance of mothers in Sikhi. Men just hop from one age to another, taking support from mother and sisters in young age, wife while he's an adult and daughters while he is going old. So women are very much a fabric of Sikhi, today and tomorrow.

If those archaic ideas have more weight and acceptablilty, then these facts have total immovability of hills and zero deniability.

Mai Harinder Kaur · #3 (**permalink**) 20-Nov-2011, 14:53 PM

I have heard myself compared to our beloved Mai Bhago whom I am named after, so perhaps I am a good woman to address this issue, although any Sikhni certainly could and I hope others will.

Sikhi as taught by our Gurus obviously teaches gender equality. Unlike other teachings of the day and even today, women are held in high esteem in theory in Sikhi on a par with men. So why, in practice, is Sikhi so very sexist?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37631

I think there are two related reasons. The first is the Punjabi culture which is extremely patriarchal. Although all eleven Gurus teach against sexist practices, they have been so far unable to break the hold of this aspect which is actually the foundation of Punjabi culture. Most Sikhs very jealously guard their Punjabi identity, often, even usually putting it before their Sikh identity. This is most prevalent in Punjab itself where woman are not allowed to sing kirtan or do much of the sewa in Darbar Sahib (Amritsar) itself! In addition, of course, is the whole concept of honour (izzat) which is dumped squarely onto the females of the family. Things that young males do with impunity are highly detrimental, sometimes even fatal, to their sisters. Certainly these gender specific beliefs have no place in the Sikhi taught by our Gurus, but until the time that Sikhs are willing to let go of the negative aspects of Punjabi culture, the women will continue to be discriminated against in a variety of ways. The rules are generally less rigidly enforced in the diaspora, but even in North America, where I live, Singhs often feel free to beat and otherwise mistreat their wives and the wives keep quiet, knowing that they would, at best, be held responsible for their husbands bad behaviour. (Note: I just today read an interesting report about smoking and drinking among young people from South Asian cultures in Britain. I recommend reading it. I found it fascinating. (http://wrap.warwick.ac.uk/634/1/WRAP...ies_Asians.pdf)

The second and related reason is our "rulebook," the Sikh Rehat Maryada itself. As an amritdhari Sikh, I feel that I am bound to follow it - and I do - but I am not blind to its faults; it is an incredibly sexist document, a reflection of both the worst of Punjabi and of British cuture. If it seems that I am being harsh, just read the section on Anand Karaj. Aside from the obvious symbolism of the boy leading the girl in all four lavaans, we find references, such as, " A Sikh's daughter must be married to a Sikh" (What about a Sikh's son?)and "A baptised ought to get his wife also baptised" (Might not the amritdhari wife get the husband "baptised"?) (I suggest reading the whole Chapter XI, Article XVIII. In fact, I suggest reading the entire SRM.)
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37631

And, of course, men are mandated to wear the turban, while it is optional for women.

Let me at this time acknowledge that while there are other Maryadas currently being used, the SRM is generally accepted by most people calling themselves Sikhs.

I do have solutions to both these problems. I'm afraid my first suggestion will be very unpopular, but I see it as necessary. If we cannot liberalise the Punjabi patriarchy - and we certainly haven't done so - it must be abandoned. Clutching to its backward, sexist precepts not only harms our women and girls, it also prevents Sikhi from becoming a true world religion. The world needs what we have. What right have we to effectively exclude those of other cultures?

Secondly, the SRM is badly in need of revision. Given the very serious problems the Sikh Kaum is facing right now, this seems unlikely, but at some point, it must be undertaken.

I realise that these ideas are controversial; I simply see no alternative if we are to be the Sikhs the Gurus clearly expect us to be.

BhagatSingh · #4 (**permalink**) 20-Nov-2011, 16:27 PM

Navdeep ji,
Bibi Bhani
Mata Gujri
Bibi Naneki
Mata Sahib Kaur
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37631
Mata Khivi
Sada Kaur
come to mind other than Mai Bhago and Rani Jindan.

Navdeep88 · #5 (**permalink**) 21-Nov-2011, 02:26 AM

Kanwaljit Singh Ji,

I like what you've said about your mom, I would probably describe my mom in the same way. And I do agree with most of what you say but here's my issue: the roles of women are changing, especially in the west. Women have to work outside of the household, they are expected to. We dont have the luxury of just one role anymore: that of getting married, staying home and raising children. So if we have to take up this responsibility, if we have to put ourselves out there, maybe men need to realise that things are changing and it is as much on them to support us, as they expect us to support them. This change has significance, and it needs to be acknowledged. I'm not saying that women don't need men or vice versa, but I think most women these days do have some independent identity, have dreams, things to accomplish... and they want support, guidance etc. in carrying that out from the men in their lives.

Navdeep88 · #6 (**permalink**) 21-Nov-2011, 02:30 AM

Bhagat Singh Ji,
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37631

none of those names are mentioned here...

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/histor...y-suggest.html

admin ji, perhaps a last category, for all the mothers and wives of the above influential figures?

BhagatSingh · #7 (**permalink**) 21-Nov-2011, 05:08 AM

They are almost all men over on that forum Navdeep ji.

Also I have contemplated these things for a while now. Here are my thoughts.

1. a) Women tend to work in the background like the quote "Behind every great man there is a great woman." The role of nurturing and raising children is perhaps the most important. They would manage the house in which the men dwell.
ਸੋ ਕਿਉ ਮੰਦਾ ਆਖੀਐ ਜਿਤੁ ਜੰਮਹਿ ਰਾਜਾਨ ॥
सो किउ मंदा आखीऐ जितु जमहि राजान ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37631
So ki▫o manḏā ākẖī▫ai jiṯ jamėh rājān.
So why call her bad? From her, kings are born.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37631

It goes much deeper still.

1. b) Women over millions of years of evolution have mated with men who were leaders and influential in their small tribes (kings). They have selected qualities in men that are apparent in the famous Sikh men of our history. Strong, dominant, brave, decisive, in control, protective of tribe, taking the lead <-- These qualities fit almost all men on that list. This hasn't changed, women are still attracted to men that display those qualities. The roles maybe changing but human psychology remains the same. In some areas, roles cannot change. Men can neither give birth to children nor feed them milk.

(The above also explains the Sikh Rehit Maryada. It's not sexist, it is simply an understanding of psychology and how society naturaly functions.)

2. Those without the qualities mentioned above tend to be forgotten as they are not in the front lines (those in front lines lead and they have a greater chance of becoming famous). Those who are going to lead will be remembered. This is why Mai Bhago is really famous. For example, you know Banda Singh Bahadur but do you know anyone else in his army? You know Banda Singh Bahadur but do you know his mom, who raised him?

3. And finally, as a society we seem to value the above mentioned qualities more than others because the famous figures of the history tend to possess them. In reality, these qualities are no more important than any other quality.

Naamsimiran · #8 (**permalink**) 21-Nov-2011, 06:47 AM

Sat Nam

The representation of South Asian women, especially Sikh women, has been something that I have been obsessed with since I was 9 years of age, even younger in fact. I have questioned, debated, argued, thought and provoked conversation about how women are represented, if they are represented and how can we improve their representation. In 2008, I was given the opportunity to explore some of my ideas through an Art Residency at Contact Theatre and now in 2011, I have been awarded studentship to investigate my ideas further through a MA Research Degree.

Naamsimiran · #9 (**permalink**) 21-Nov-2011, 06:49 AM

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fatheh.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37631
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37631
The title of my MA is: The under-representation of women in Sikh visual culture. This is my starting point. I am sure it will unfold, shift and change as I explore and find out new things. Growing up as a young Sikh girl, I always noticed that in the Gudwaras and at the homes of my Sikh friends and relatives, that women rarely or never were depicted in pictures of Sikhism or in the history of Sikhism. Although things are in fact changing, I want to research herstory and give a visual presence to the females of Sikhism and those powerful Sikh women today. I want to, by God grace, give Sikh women a voice. You can follow my research at : http://sabbikaur.tumblr.com/