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12-Aug-2009, 01:13 AM
|  | .jpg) | | | Enrolled: Oct 6th, 2006 Location: British Columbia, Canada Age: 61
Posts: 1,727
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Liked 2,675 Times in 1,128 Posts
| |  | | | Re: A Sikh Without His Flowing Hair and Turban
Gyani Jarnail Singh ji said: Quote:
YES hundreds of thousands of such were DRAGGED to theri DEATHS - a simple act of Cutting their Hair would have SAVED their lives/bestowed Honours on them..BUT they REFUSED POINT BLANK to cut their KESH. Thats their CHOICE..we must all respect THAT CHOICE.
I am all for live and let live..let the amritdharees live their lives..let the cut hairs live their lives...both have a choice and they made it.
| As one whose beloved family members made that choice and achieved shaheedi in 1984 and also in the years following - most were Amritdhari, some were not - I personally feel that every time I see a keshdhari Sikh, especially a turbaned one, male or female, their sacrifice is being honoured, they are being remembered in the way that would mean the most to them. These Sikhs, in the uniform of the devout Sikh - Amritdhari or not - honour our Gurus, our shaheeds and - to me - what being a Sikh means. I understand that it is socially difficult, even dangerous, and those who are not called upon to do this - we are all where we are on this path - might even be hypocritical to affect something they don't really embrace.
Still, I think those who do choose to adopt the Khalsa roop deserve a certain respect. Beyond that, don't most of us just feel good when we see a Sikh in bana walking down the street? I know I do. 
Chardi kala! 
Mai Do you agree or disagree with the writer above? Why not share your immediate thoughts with us! Login Now! or Sign Up Today! to share your views... Gurfateh! | | The following member appreciates Mai Harinder Kaur Ji for the above message. | |
12-Aug-2009, 08:32 AM
|  | .jpg) Sawa lakh se EK larraoan | | | Enrolled: Jul 4th, 2004 Location: KUALA LUMPUR MALAYSIA Age: 64
Posts: 7,035
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Liked 11,884 Times in 4,690 Posts
| |  | | | Re: A Sikh Without His Flowing Hair and Turban
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mai Harinder Kaur  Gyani Jarnail Singh ji said:
As one whose beloved family members made that choice and achieved shaheedi in 1984 and also in the years following - most were Amritdhari, some were not - I personally feel that every time I see a keshdhari Sikh, especially a turbaned one, male or female, their sacrifice is being honoured, they are being remembered in the way that would mean the most to them. These Sikhs, in the uniform of the devout Sikh - Amritdhari or not - honour our Gurus, our shaheeds and - to me - what being a Sikh means. I understand that it is socially difficult, even dangerous, and those who are not called upon to do this - we are all where we are on this path - might even be hypocritical to affect something they don't really embrace.
Still, I think those who do choose to adopt the Khalsa roop deserve a certain respect. Beyond that, don't most of us just feel good when we see a Sikh in bana walking down the street? I know I do.
Chardi kala!
Mai | Mai Ji,
Gurfateh.
YES I do feel the Pride well up inside of me when i see a Full Banna wearing Khalsa..whether he is in a picture, on the telly, or on the street, or in the newspaper...
He/She reminds me of Bhai taru Singh, Bhai mani Singh, Bhai Shabaaz Singh, Bahi Subegh Singh, Bhai Jarnail Singh Bhinderawallah...Bhai Banda Singh, Bhai Zorawar Singh fateh Singh Ajit Singh Jhujhaar Singh..and a host of a FEW HUNDRED THOUSAND HEERAYS of the Glorious Panth..and force me to RETROSPECT on MY OWN FEELINGS..my INNER STRENGTH...will I BE able to EMULATE THEM..IF such a time comes on Me ?? Talk is cheap..but if push comes to shove..Can I take the HEAT ?? Can I stand the TEST of SIKHI ??
I write so much, Talk so much...made so many "enemies" (and friends) simply because of what I write/speak..BUT CAN I REALLY STAND BY and see my joint cut...scalp removed...and say Tera Bhanna Meetha laggeh ?? That is the 64 million dollar question..these Banna wearers awaken in me...
I have YET to answer myself convincingly...i plod along..hoping one day Guru Ji will provide the answer...  | | The following members appreciate Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji for the above message. | |
12-Aug-2009, 08:57 AM
| | | | | Enrolled: Oct 6th, 2006 Location: British Columbia, Canada Age: 61
Posts: 1,727
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Liked 2,675 Times in 1,128 Posts
| | | | | Re: A Sikh Without His Flowing Hair and Turban
Gyani Jarnail Singh says: How can any of us live up the the examples of our shaheeds? They are a magnificent bunch! I am very honoured to have been the mother of one, the wife of another and the sister of two others.
I would advise you to be careful of what you ask for; you may get it. You cannot know until you are in the actual, physical situation.
Twice in my life I have found myself in that sort of situation, first in the hands of the Punjab Police at the time of the Bluestar Massacre. Guru Papa ji rescued me there, so I still don't know what might have happened.
The second was during the Delhi Pogrom where, frankly, my adrenaline level was so high that I probably would have exploded if I hadn't stood and fought. Still I think all of us in our group acquitted ourselves well, but facing death is a lot easier than facing torture, so I still don't know.
And for what it's worth, I think I'll be happy to keep it that way.
Chardi kala! I really need that ice cream this time.
Mai |
12-Aug-2009, 12:56 PM
|  | (previously jeetijohal, account deactivated at her request.) | | | Enrolled: Mar 14th, 2006 Location: London, UK
Posts: 388
| | Adherent: Spirituality, the Science of human existance.
Liked 74 Times in 52 Posts
| |  | | | Re: A Sikh Without His Flowing Hair and Turban
What is a true Sikh, one who has Sikhism ingrained into his genes and each pore and lives according to the doctrine passed down generation following generation of forefathers or what I call as yet ‘practising Sikhs’ those battling with the basic rules of conduct of coexistence and harmony, of morality and new fad modernism cunningly pecking away at traditional values and culture whilst licking at the boots of the church gates. Sikhism accords a pride and Nam to all who don its mantle and shield themselves in its apparel, blessed for being able to do so at a time Sikhs are shorn, abused, murdered, attacked and assaulted for their faith. The Blue star operation was tacitly permitted by the reluctance of any intervention by the media, as was the siege and destruction at Waco in the following decade. Many Hindu’s feel remorse for their leader’s actions against their Sikh neighbours yet we do not hear of any such sentiment let alone action from the western denizens of Sikhism in protest. Sikh ladies hold our elders, Menfolk and brothers with respect, a courtesy and strength considered a weakness in the west where women battle and compete, erode and denigrate mankind for their own self advancement and indulgence at the expense of men. In the home I was raised in women did not speak out in the company of men, and were deeply sensible and spiritually stronger for it. Silence is as Golden as the Temple Fortress. Sikhism affords the mantle of religiosity to those who seek it, some especially women who by the famous Corinthians Bible verse should really remain silent, use its prestigious armour to battle from within against the upholding pillars. Western women are loud and boorish and display a manner considered coarse and vulgar in Sikhi where women who are stronger in spirit for the silent resilience and dignity. We would not call them perfect but when compared to the new age damsels of feminism, they seem tame and compliant in comparison. The female moderators recent actions an indication of my worst suspicions being horrendously accurate. Whether white Sikhs will be a welcome addition of scar’s hyenas{The Lion King} barking at the feet of good men, time will soon reveal...Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/14395-sikh-without-his-flowing-hair-turban.html Blue Star is an operation where The Saint Sant Bhindranwalle was murdered whilst seeking shelter from a state army raiding and murdering all over Punjab searching to execute him and his men, a task they accomplished. Sikhs seek State independence and autonomy. This is the issue at stake, and not your personal boasting of what you have or have not lost. Punjab remains as it was prior to the 1984 tragedy. The ‘fireballs’ of this age speak verbosely of ‘’sacrifice’ and forbearance whilst the true martyr’s and shaheeds were brushed as dust under the headstones of their assassinated leader. The battle is an ongoing one and not a platform for personal self enhancement in the boasting of one’s part especially as the war and battle has to date remained futile given Americas media and states apparent reluctance in intervening for resolution of the events that occurred there. Regarding the matter of hair cutting, some are muune* and some adorn themselves in the traditional Sardar Sajje in appearance, it is a matter of one’s personal inclination than an issue to be derided, boasted or enforced. When the Sikhs heart turns to his Higher Soul the dupatta and turban is reached for and donned as a matter of pride and honour than a charade or enforced compliance, and should remain a privilege than boasted of by those who don the sacred shield of religious apparel. The elders speak wisdom and allow the younger Sikhs to live comfortably in foreign climes, mindful of their identity reassured they will find they way to orthodoxy should they be so called and inspired than demanding orthodoxy presumably to compensate for any lack or deficiency found in some who boats of their outward piety. Maybe for the love of your men whom you profess to have lost you should tackle your government regarding State independence and an unresolved issue outstanding, maybe that would be the greatest role in this effort you could contribute...May sod spare us the sanctimonious ice-cream lickers... Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14395 **You are american women, drunk on your new found state given power, gained by the castigation and disembowelment of western men. Your attitude speaks volumes, I need say no more. I do not fight, nor allow battles within my home or life in general. The true warriorship is done by integrity and honour. You are feminists. I need not repeat my Guru's words as contained in the above video. As for ''high positions'' this is purely subjective to what can be construed as blatant abuse of power compensate for a lack of moral authority. Granted your creed hold me captive at this juncture, and laughable in their boasting of ''victory’s' in war, as for the moderator this attention seeking stance grows out of hand, I sense from links my Guru suffered a similar tale of a vile wench seeking endorsement itself battling to sustain its seat of corrupt power, I endeavour to desist from overly dramatising. Stay away from me, I am sure if my responses to your feeble attempts at distracting attention away from issues onto yourself can be handled by another senior, if the situation warrants such intervention.
Last edited by Archived_Member5; 13-Aug-2009 at 13:55 PM.
Reason: Response to retort.
| | The following member appreciates Archived_Member5 Ji for the above message. | |
12-Aug-2009, 23:05 PM
|  | SPN Sewadaar | | | Enrolled: Dec 3rd, 2006 Location: Chester PA
Posts: 3,323
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| |  | | | Re: A Sikh Without His Flowing Hair and Turban
Jeeti johal ji
Know that I don't even like ice cream -- but in your words, Maybe for the love of your men whom you profess to have lost you should tackle your government regarding State independence and an unresolved issue outstanding, maybe that would be the greatest role in this effort you could contribute...May sod spare us the sanctimonious ice-cream lickers...
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14395
Would you please help me and others understand your pattern of scorn and apparent deep contempt for other women, particularly if they are "modern" as per your opinion, particularly if they are western women, and particularly if they have positions of leadership in this forum. I am getting numerous messages in which forum members (mostly men) are asking me to explain your anti-woman biases and I don't know what to tell them. So far I have told them -- Oh well ! That is just the way jeeti ji is...but maybe you could assist with the explanation.  Thank you
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14395
| | The following members appreciate Narayanjot Kaur Ji for the above message. | |
13-Aug-2009, 00:54 AM
| | | | | Enrolled: Oct 6th, 2006 Location: British Columbia, Canada Age: 61
Posts: 1,727
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Liked 2,675 Times in 1,128 Posts
| | | | | Re: A Sikh Without His Flowing Hair and Turban
Narayanjot ji,
I would be the sanctimonious ice cream licker. Yum, yum! And proud of it. I believe it will now go after my name, right after Crazy Religious fanatic and The Nutter.
This whole post is an attack aimed at me. Perhaps I should just stand back and, keeping quiet womanly dignity, let it pass. After all, I need not defend myself; my life speaks for itself. I stand or fall on that basis.
I am a Singhni, a Sardarni in the tradition of Mai Bhago.  I have fought in battle beside my men, fallen and gotten back up to fight some more. Notice we fought together, not him protecting me as I hid, whimpering in some corner.  If I wanted to be a quiet little submissive Christian wife, I would be a quiet little submissive Christian wife. I do not and I am not and I will not. 
I am a Kaur who has stood proudly beside her Singh, his equal in peace and war.
Bhai Jeetijohal ji,
I believe I detect a note of a most unSikh sort of racism in your tirade starting with: Quote: | What is a true Sikh, one who has Sikhism ingrained into his genes | and continuing with Quote: | Whether white Sikhs will be a welcome addition of scar’s hyenas{The Lion King} barking at the feet of good men, time will soon reveal... |
I suppose, with a Punjabi father and a (mostly) French mother, I would qualify as an off-white Sikh. 
On a very serious note, while I have great respect for Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale, I do not regard him as infallible. He is not Guru ji, he is not a Nanak. He is a man, a Khalsa, a great warrior, an honoured shaheed. I respect and honour that. He was a great leader at a crucial time in our history.
However, I strongly disagree with his views on women. Perhaps I am loud, vulgar and prideful, even self-righteous and sanctimonious. Nonetheless, I have every right to express my ideas and opinions. I try to express myself politely, even when personally attacked.
However, in the end, I subscribe to the old saw, "the art of being a woman is knowing when not to be a lady." 
Chardi kala!
Mai, TINK, CRf, TN, SICL 
Last edited by Mai Harinder Kaur; 13-Aug-2009 at 00:56 AM.
Reason: Correct a smiley code
|
13-Aug-2009, 13:57 PM
| | (previously jeetijohal, account deactivated at her request.) | | | Enrolled: Mar 14th, 2006 Location: London, UK
Posts: 388
| | Adherent: Spirituality, the Science of human existance.
Liked 74 Times in 52 Posts
| | | | | Re: A Sikh Without His Flowing Hair and Turban
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeetijohal What is a true Sikh, one who has Sikhism ingrained into his genes and each pore and lives according to the doctrine passed down generation following generation of forefathers or what I call as yet ‘practising Sikhs’ those battling with the basic rules of conduct of coexistence and harmony, of morality and new fad modernism cunningly pecking away at traditional values and culture whilst licking at the boots of the church gates. Sikhism accords a pride and Nam to all who don its mantle and shield themselves in its apparel, blessed for being able to do so at a time Sikhs are shorn, abused, murdered, attacked and assaulted for their faith. The Blue star operation was tacitly permitted by the reluctance of any intervention by the media, as was the siege and destruction at Waco in the following decade. Many Hindu’s feel remorse for their leader’s actions against their Sikh neighbours yet we do not hear of any such sentiment let alone action from the western denizens of Sikhism in protest. Sikh ladies hold our elders, Menfolk and brothers with respect, a courtesy and strength considered a weakness in the west where women battle and compete, erode and denigrate mankind for their own self advancement and indulgence at the expense of men. In the home I was raised in women did not speak out in the company of men, and were deeply sensible and spiritually stronger for it. Silence is as Golden as the Temple Fortress. Sikhism affords the mantle of religiosity to those who seek it, some especially women who by the famous Corinthians Bible verse should really remain silent, use its prestigious armour to battle from within against the upholding pillars. Western women are loud and boorish and display a manner considered coarse and vulgar in Sikhi where women who are stronger in spirit for the silent resilience and dignity. We would not call them perfect but when compared to the new age damsels of feminism, they seem tame and compliant in comparison. The female moderators recent actions an indication of my worst suspicions being horrendously accurate. Whether white Sikhs will be a welcome addition of scar’s hyenas{The Lion King} barking at the feet of good men, time will soon reveal... Blue Star is an operation where The Saint Sant Bhindranwalle was murdered whilst seeking shelter from a state army raiding and murdering all over Punjab searching to execute him and his men, a task they accomplished. Sikhs seek State independence and autonomy. This is the issue at stake, and not your personal boasting of what you have or have not lost. Punjab remains as it was prior to the 1984 tragedy. The ‘fireballs’ of this age speak verbosely of ‘’sacrifice’ and forbearance whilst the true martyr’s and shaheeds were brushed as dust under the headstones of their assassinated leader. The battle is an ongoing one and not a platform for personal self enhancement in the boasting of one’s part especially as the war and battle has to date remained futile given Americas media and states apparent reluctance in intervening for resolution of the events that occurred there. Regarding the matter of hair cutting, some are muune* and some adorn themselves in the traditional Sardar Sajje in appearance, it is a matter of one’s personal inclination than an issue to be derided, boasted or enforced. When the Sikhs heart turns to his Higher Soul the dupatta and turban is reached for and donned as a matter of pride and honour than a charade or enforced compliance, and should remain a privilege than boasted of by those who don the sacred shield of religious apparel. The elders speak wisdom and allow the younger Sikhs to live comfortably in foreign climes, mindful of their identity reassured they will find they way to orthodoxy should they be so called and inspired than demanding orthodoxy presumably to compensate for any lack or deficiency found in some who boats of their outward piety. Maybe for the love of your men whom you profess to have lost you should tackle your government regarding State independence and an unresolved issue outstanding, maybe that would be the greatest role in this effort you could contribute...May sod spare us the sanctimonious ice-cream lickers... YouTube - Sikhi and Women - Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale **You are american women, drunk on your new found state given power, gained by the castigation and disembowelment of western men. Your attitude speaks volumes, I need say no more. I do not fight, nor allow battles within my home or life in general. The true warriorship is done by integrity and honour. You are feminists. I need not repeat my Guru's words as contained in the above video. As for ''high positions'' this is purely subjective to what can be construed as blatant abuse of power compensate for a lack of moral authority. Granted your creed hold me captive at this juncture, and laughable in their boasting of ''victory’s' in war, as for the moderator this attention seeking stance grows out of hand, I sense from links my Guru suffered a similar tale of a vile wench seeking endorsement itself battling to sustain its seat of corrupt power, I endeavour to desist from overly dramatising. Stay away from me, I am sure if my responses to your feeble attempts at distracting attention away from issues onto yourself can be handled by another senior, if the situation warrants such intervention. A woman that is not a Lady is a wench We also note you compare yourself to the beautiful, Noble and Great Spirit of Mother Bhago than your native equally brave Warrior Queen Boadicea in the knowledge that Boadicea’s adorers would laughingly pour scorn upon your audacity...
. | WaheGuru Ji Ka Khalsa, WAheGuru Ji Ki Fateh... It is noted each time an issue is discussed a troll immediately intervenes and diverts attention away from progressing, resolving or discussing onto its own personal need for attention. As for racial issues, Americans terrorising the world, forcing nations to defend themselves to opportune you of casting accusations of terrorism or racism is indeed, Laughable. Spare me your childish ranting and pathetic effort at political spin doctoring in transferring your own sin unto the victim. Os wenches of course you would deny the sanctity of all and any true Saint who did not submit to wenches. Sant Ji too was battling a frustrated widow hell bent on subjugation or destruction of any Saint, Messiah or Prophet, The Book of Bible Revelations goes on. Western men may have reverted to homosexuality, batcher hood or abstinence to escape these feminists I refuse to iron out what is a monstrosity spawned of their stupidity. We do not such problems of insolence and insatiable lust for power and limelight amongst native Punjabi and Eastern Ladies who are powerful and generous spirited enough to be able to honour their Men, fathers, Brothers, Sons and Spouses than compete and battle with them for a dominance thwarted by its own need.
I refuse to pander to your attention seeking, or embroil myself in needles rhetoric. In future kindly maintain a distance from Me. ... |
13-Aug-2009, 14:14 PM
|  | | | | Enrolled: Mar 5th, 2007
Posts: 9
| | | | | | | Re: A Sikh Without His Flowing Hair and Turban
There are lot of efforts going on to save the turban and motivate sikh youth to keep hairs un shorn.. Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14395 www.pagrihouse.com is one of the effort, making sikh turbans available to sikhs across the globe.. |
13-Aug-2009, 14:25 PM
| | SPN Sewadaar | | | Enrolled: Dec 3rd, 2006 Location: Chester PA
Posts: 3,323
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Liked 6,700 Times in 3,492 Posts
| | | | | Re: A Sikh Without His Flowing Hair and Turban
jeeti ji
Here is what is mystifying about your reactions to western women **You are american women, drunk on your new found state given power, gained by the castigation and disembowelment of western men.
If the state gives us power, then that same state could order the castigation and disembowelment and western women would not have to get their hands dirty. And if the state gives us power, then that means we don't have any real power of our own. It all belongs to the state. So why blame western women or hold us accountable. All blame for our wrongdoings belongs to the all-powerful state.
Your attitude speaks volumes, I need say no more. I do not fight, nor allow battles within my home or life in general.
I dont' battle either at home especially. My husband is a really nice guy and we don't usually fight. Not that I have castigated or disemboweled him, but if you want his word for it, it can be arranged.
The true warriorship is done by integrity and honour. You are feminists.
What is a feminist?
I need not repeat my Guru's words as contained in the above video.
Who is your Guru? That is a really important question if we want to understand you better, and we really do.
As for ''high positions'' this is purely subjective to what can be construed as blatant abuse of power compensate for a lack of moral authority.
The average forum reader would want to know how power was abused and by whom and against whom. How did Mai abuse her power? I already know that you think I abuse mine. When did I do that?
Granted your creed hold me captive at this juncture,
What is my creed? What is Mai ji's creed?
and laughable in their boasting of ''victory’s' in war, as for the moderator this attention seeking stance grows out of hand,
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14395
Moderators can and do go public when they moderate. And they can also moderate from a Control Panel and no one knows they are doing it. When moderating from beind a control panel, there is no attention getting, because no one can see you.
I sense from links my Guru suffered a similar tale of a vile wench seeking endorsement itself battling to sustain its seat of corrupt power,
What links and what seat of power?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14395
I endeavour to desist from overly dramatising. Stay away from me,
Neither Mai nor I are very close in fact we are thousands of miles away. So we are really not likely to cling to you. Why are you concerned about this?
I am sure if my responses to your feeble attempts at distracting attention away from issues onto yourself can be handled by another senior, if the situation warrants such intervention.
A woman that is not a Lady is a wench
What is a lady in your own words? You say up above, In the home I was raised in women did not speak out in the company of men, and were deeply sensible and spiritually stronger for it. But you are now in the company of men and are doing a lot of talking. So when and why did you change your mind? Talking and attention seeking can't be the reason for being a wench. It has to be some other unladylike thing.
So why do you find western women so obnoxious.
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