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Who is real Sikh ?

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bhai gurdas ji, guru, real, sikh
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 31-Mar-2012, 06:03 AM
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Who is real Sikh ?

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A child born in a Brahmin family is assumed to be a Brahmin on grounds of coincidence of birth and on similar grounds a child is called a Kshatriya on account of being born in Kshatriya family. However, a son of a doctor does not automatically become a doctor and a son of an engineer does not automatically become an engineer. It is a priceless and very valuable gift to become a disciple of perfect master and does not come by birth or inheritance. This is not like a piece of sweet which anybody can take and when delivers instant gratification. It is not like a fruit plucked from a roadside tree which anyone can pick and eat. Discipleship of a perfect master is precious gift given consciously by divine grace of living master in form of a formal initiation.

सतिगुर तुठै पाइऐ साधसंगति गुरमति गुरसिखी |

जो बच्चा ब्राह्मण के घर पैदा होता है उसे जन्म के संयोग से ब्राह्मण ही मान लिया जाता है और किसी क्षत्रिय के घर में पैदा होने पर क्षत्रिय मान लिया जाता है | पर किसी डाक्टर का बेटा डाक्टर या इंजीनियर का बेटा इंजीनियर स्वत: ही नहीं बन जाता है | सच्चे रहबर की शागिर्दी एक बेशकिमती नियामत है जो ख़ुद अपनेआप या जन्म से या विरासत में नही पायी जा सकती है | ये कोई मोतीचूर का लड्डू नहीं है जिसे मुंह में ले लिया और स्वाद आ गया | ये कोई सड़क पर लगाया हुआ पेड़ नहीं है जिससे जब चाहा फ़ल तोड़ कर खा लिए | पूर्ण दरवेश की रहबरी तो एक पूर्ण होशो-हवास में बख़्शा हुआ बेशकीमती और बेजोड़ तोहफ़ा है, इसके लिए कामिल दरवेश का दयाल होना और अपनी दया की दीक्षा का अमली ज़ामा देना निहायत ही जरुरी है |
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/38280-who-is-real-sikh.html

After taking initiation from perfect master, obeying his will and command, following the path of meditation for God realization, is like undergoing a process of living after dying. To walk on this way is as difficult as walking on a sharp and hair like thin edge of the sword. How one can dare to walk on such a way where even light weight creatures like ant, mosquitoes do not dare to put step and when he is already heavily burdened with tons of load of lust, passions and bad karmas. The one, who is willing to be pressed in oil press machine like mustard, can dare to go on that path.

गुरुसिखी बारीक है खंड़े धार गली अति भीड़ी |
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38280
ओथै टिकै न भुणहणा चलि न सकै उपरि कीड़ी |
वालहुं निकी आखीऐ तेलु तिलहु लै कोल्हू पीड़ी |

भुणहणा – मच्छर |

किसी सच्चे रास्ते के रहबर से बैअत (दीक्षित) होकर उसके हुक्म और रज़ा में चलते हुए परवरदिग़ार से विसाल के लिए बन्दगी का रास्ता, मरकर ज़न्दा होने का मार्ग है | उस पर चलना उतना ही कठिन है जितना तलवार की तेज़ और बाल से बारीक धार पर चलना | जिस मार्ग पर मच्छरों, चींटियों जैसे हलके जीव क़दम बढ़ाने की हिम्मत न रखते हों, उस पर वह क्या चलेगा जिसकें सिर पर वासनाओं की कई मन भारी गठरी लदी हो ? जो कोई कोल्हू में पेले जानेवाले सरसों के समान पीड़े जाने के लिये तैयार हो, उसे ही इधर अपना रुख करना चाहिये |



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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 31-Mar-2012, 13:37 PM
Annie's Avatar Annie Annie is offline
 
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Re: Who is real Sikh ?

Are you saying that only Amritdhari are real Sikhs? Are different levels of learning not possible?
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 31-Mar-2012, 15:17 PM
vipkolon's Avatar vipkolon vipkolon is offline
 
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Re: Who is real Sikh ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie View Post
Are you saying that only Amritdhari are real Sikhs? Are different levels of learning not possible?
No, what I mean to say that state of mind of devotee is more important than outward tag of a Sikh. A true Sikh has to be Gurumukh and not Manmukh. He should control his mind and surrender it to Hukm of Satguru. He should become example to the whole world and show them the divine glory of Akal Purukh. People should not call him Sikh by his outward appearance but the glory and shine on his face, peace and contentment in his eyes, love and compassion for mankind. Guru Nanak's message is not only for Sikhs but for all humanity. A person belonging to Sikh community does not become a Sikh automatically but he has to prove his worthiness by spiritual efforts. A non-Sikh following Guru Sahibs's teachings can be called as true Sikh as Guru Granth Sahib contains vanis of more than 30 saints which were not Sikhs but Guru Sahibs has considered them as true Sikhs.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 31-Mar-2012, 19:52 PM
Gyani Jarnail Singh's Avatar Gyani Jarnail Singh Gyani Jarnail Singh is offline
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Re: Who is real Sikh ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie View Post
Are you saying that only Amritdhari are real Sikhs? Are different levels of learning not possible?

I think hes saying..ONLY Mustard seeds willing to be PRESSED in the oil mill will produce Mustard OIL.......others will remain just mustard seeds...

I dont think "different" levels of mustard oil...or seeds in various stages of production are...feasible..although could be...i suppose...

An "AMRITDHAREE" has of NECESSITY.....stand UP and OFFER his/her HEAD on His/her PALM....as is commanded in Gurbani....Sir dhar TALEE...galee meri ayo....JE TO PREM KHELLANN KA CHAO ~~...no COMPULSION though..its VOLUNTARY !! no one is forced/compelled to PLAY the GAME of LOVE.........BUT if one does CHOOSE to PLAY..then no more questions/doubts/ whatever....
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 31-Mar-2012, 20:13 PM
Gyani Jarnail Singh's Avatar Gyani Jarnail Singh Gyani Jarnail Singh is offline
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Re: Who is real Sikh ?

Those 30..."non-Sikhs" whose Gurbani is enshrined in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and shares EQUAL status with the SIKH GURUS..have Played the GAME OF LOVE..and did carry their Heads on their PALMS....Bhagat Kabir Ji or Bhagat ravidass Ji wouldnt have ..."run away"....just as Guru Arjun ji didnt run away..Guru teg bahdur Ji didnt run away..the 5 year old Zorawar singh fateh Singh didnt run away form the walls of Sirhind....EACH STOOD FIRM to be COUNTED.
SO if a "non-sikh"...has the Courage to Stand up and be counted..and doesnt run away ( as the many HUNDREDS who were on-lookers/by-standers type of SIKHS in CHANDNNI CHOWK that fateful day when Guru teg bahdur Ji was publicly executed...ONLY 2..Bhai JAITA JI..and businessman Bhai LAKHI SHAH Vanjara Showed the Moral courage to STAND UP and be counted..while all other SIKHS melted away into the shadows....crying inside..weeping their hearts out..BUT still SLINKING AWAY nevertheless....Same scenario...at vasakhi 1699..Guru Ji asked for 5 Heads...among thousands...but only 5 came out one by one as called....there was NO STAMPEDE to OFFER HEADS....so YES..the "GENUINE" SIKH is severely LIMITED and SCARCE....as has been shown time and time again..although the HUGE CROWDS that THRONG Gurdwaras..and consider themselves SIKHS love to IMAGINE OTHERWISE.....our SIKH population worldwide stands at 25 MILLION....but not ALL are Balwant Singh Rajoanna.....thats a very very scarce "commodity" just as Guru Gobind Singh ji showed in vasakhi 1699..... My intention is not to "belittle" anyone..sikh or amrtidharee..or non-sikh....my purpose is to state the facts as History shows...and facts/history doesn't lie..or hide.....the TRUTH. I am also an "amritdharee"...BUT I too cannot state categorically that I am a balwant Singh rajoanna...i may imagine myself to be so...BUT only a situation can prove otherwise....as a sword may spend all its life inside a scabbard...and can be tested only on the battlefield.....so an Amrtidharee may be a steel sword (in scabbard for decades)..and another "sikh" may be a PLASTIC SWORD (also in scabbard for decades)...until such a testing situation arises..BOTH may Fail or Pass....only GURPARSAAD determines who passes and who fails...japposatnamwaheguru:
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 31-Mar-2012, 23:47 PM
prakash.s.bagga's Avatar prakash.s.bagga prakash.s.bagga is offline
 
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Re: Who is real Sikh ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyani Jarnail Singh View Post
Those 30..."non-Sikhs" whose Gurbani is enshrined in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and shares EQUAL status with the SIKH GURUS..have Played the GAME OF LOVE..and did carry their Heads on their PALMS....Bhagat Kabir Ji or Bhagat ravidass Ji wouldnt have ..."run away"....just as Guru Arjun ji didnt run away..Guru teg bahdur Ji didnt run away..the 5 year old Zorawar singh fateh Singh didnt run away form the walls of Sirhind....EACH STOOD FIRM to be COUNTED.
SO if a "non-sikh"...has the Courage to Stand up and be counted..and doesnt run away ( as the many HUNDREDS who were on-lookers/by-standers type of SIKHS in CHANDNNI CHOWK that fateful day when Guru teg bahdur Ji was publicly executed...ONLY 2..Bhai JAITA JI..and businessman Bhai LAKHI SHAH Vanjara Showed the Moral courage to STAND UP and be counted..while all other SIKHS melted away into the shadows....crying inside..weeping their hearts out..BUT still SLINKING AWAY nevertheless....Same scenario...at vasakhi 1699..Guru Ji asked for 5 Heads...among thousands...but only 5 came out one by one as called....there was NO STAMPEDE to OFFER HEADS....so YES..the "GENUINE" SIKH is severely LIMITED and SCARCE....as has been shown time and time again..although the HUGE CROWDS that THRONG Gurdwaras..and consider themselves SIKHS love to IMAGINE OTHERWISE.....our SIKH population worldwide stands at 25 MILLION....but not ALL are Balwant Singh Rajoanna.....thats a very very scarce "commodity" just as Guru Gobind Singh ji showed in vasakhi 1699..... My intention is not to "belittle" anyone..sikh or amrtidharee..or non-sikh....my purpose is to state the facts as History shows...and facts/history doesn't lie..or hide.....the TRUTH. I am also an "amritdharee"...BUT I too cannot state categorically that I am a balwant Singh rajoanna...i may imagine myself to be so...BUT only a situation can prove otherwise....as a sword may spend all its life inside a scabbard...and can be tested only on the battlefield.....so an Amrtidharee may be a steel sword (in scabbard for decades)..and another "sikh" may be a PLASTIC SWORD (also in scabbard for decades)...until such a testing situation arises..BOTH may Fail or Pass....only GURPARSAAD determines who passes and who fails...japposatnamwaheguru:
How any one can prove that those 30 whose Gurbanee is enshrined in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are or were Non Sikhs .? At that timtes there was nothing like any person to be known as Amritdhari or So.
Prakash.S.Bagga
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 01-Apr-2012, 06:24 AM
Gyani Jarnail Singh's Avatar Gyani Jarnail Singh Gyani Jarnail Singh is offline
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Re: Who is real Sikh ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by prakash.s.bagga View Post
How any one can prove that those 30 whose Gurbanee is enshrined in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are or were Non Sikhs .? At that timtes there was nothing like any person to be known as Amritdhari or So.
Prakash.S.Bagga
Paraksh Ji..
People (misguided ones) refer to them as .."non-sikh" simply based on their names/caste etc. To me ( many say i am misguided too.ha ha ) each contributor to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a SIKH of GURU NANAK JI SAHIB...as He is the Founder, the Fountain Head who ESTABLISHED ALL and EACH ONE of the BASICS foundation BRICKS of GURMATT. Thus He chose ONLY the GURBANI that absolutley "FIT" this Gurmatt concept and REJECTED all that Bani that failed to COMPLY...even IF that REJECTED Bani came from the same source such as Kabir Ji or Ravidass Ji. ( This bani thats NOT INCLUDED in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji does exist in granths other than Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and is NOT considered GURBANI by SIKHS ).

Prof sahib Singh ji has proved most satisfactorily that Guru nanank Ji himself collected the GURBANI form these various 30 contributors while on his Udasiis (travels). Some Babas and mahapurash do tell TALL TALES of how the SPIRITS of these 30 saints came before GURU ARJUN JI and PLEADED for their bani to be included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji....but this is a tall tale worthy of birds ..not logical rational humans. Others actually believe that these 30 actually MET GURU NANAK JI in HUMAN FORM and gave him their compositions..another tale that defies history and logic.

Many SIKHS actually actively propogate the NON-SIKH .....to prove the UNIVERSALITY..the Humanity/worldwide appeal etc etc of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...as IF what the GURU SAHIBS wrote "alone" couldn't stand scrutiny as being Universal TRUTH..or for Humanity worldwide etc etc...The Message of GURU NANAK ALONE fits the bill more than adequately...because Mehla Pehla has laid down ALL the rules and is COMPLETE in ALL aspects...but whatever it is..the basic underlying TRUTH is that there are 30 plus contributors to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji who come form various REGIONS, ECONOMIC and SOCIAL backgrounds, various religious paths and leanings, castes, etc etc etc..and ALL these PEARLS of exceptional Value are indeed strung on a STRING woven by GURU NANAK JI SAHIB to produce the Worlds most wondrous Necklace..the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 02-Apr-2012, 17:00 PM
vipkolon's Avatar vipkolon vipkolon is offline
 
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Re: Who is real Sikh ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyani Jarnail Singh View Post
I think hes saying..ONLY Mustard seeds willing to be PRESSED in the oil mill will produce Mustard OIL.......others will remain just mustard seeds...

I dont think "different" levels of mustard oil...or seeds in various stages of production are...feasible..although could be...i suppose...

An "AMRITDHAREE" has of NECESSITY.....stand UP and OFFER his/her HEAD on His/her PALM....as is commanded in Gurbani....Sir dhar TALEE...galee meri ayo....JE TO PREM KHELLANN KA CHAO ~~...no COMPULSION though..its VOLUNTARY !! no one is forced/compelled to PLAY the GAME of LOVE.........BUT if one does CHOOSE to PLAY..then no more questions/doubts/ whatever....
The message of Bhai Gurdas Ji or Kabir Sahib is more on spiritual level than on worldly level. It refers to sacrificing of one's ego for entering the divine kingdom of Akal Purukh. It is very easy to fight in a war than to sit still in meditation for few hours. Before principle of "Peeri and Meeri" was propagated by Guru Hargovind Sahib (as that was the need of those times because Hindus and Sikhs were unsafe in those times), the message of previous Gurus was completely spiritual. Guru Nanak decried strongly the outward rituals and stressed on pure spirituality. His message was completely universal and applied to all irrespective of their castes, religions and nationalities. We will be doing a great disservice to Guru Sahibs if we try to restrict their teachings to Sikhs only. Guru Sahib had only one Hukm and that is to worship the Akal Purukh and nothing else. It is the ignorant human mind which is trying to divide even Sikhs into various sects based on different outward rituals. A true Amritdhari as per Guru Granth Sahib is one who drinks divine nectar in the inner spiritual region (Amrit Ka Sarovar) and a true Sikh is one who has controlled his mind from the five abnormalities. Guruvani is very clear on this. We have to read Guru Granth Sahib properly and internalize its principles in one's life. One should judge a Sikh not by his dress but by the dynamism of his personality. he should be a shining beacon to the humanity like the Guru Sahibs.
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Old 02-Apr-2012, 18:38 PM
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Re: Who is real Sikh ?

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SSA,

Bhai Vipkolon ji, thanks for you posts , I feel like you have really answered the question of who is a true Sikh, Up till now I have never come across such type of Gur Sikhs about whom I have read in all the Great Sikh History, My personal feeling (please forgive me I am hurting anyone).
Sikhs now a days just show up how daring they are, but the light and spark what should come out from a True Sikh is missing.
I feel Sikhi is now just like any other religion, as you need to be born in that religion to be called the Guy of that faith.
Sikhi is like a nector, this is something which God bless only to his loved ones and not to all.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38280
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38280
I feel blessed as Babaji as shown me the way to know little about Sikhi, may Babaji give me chance and courage to be his smallest servant.

Bhul Chuk Maawfmundahug
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