When Life Goes Awry

Kanwaljit Singh · #1 (**permalink**) 17-Jan-2012, 22:23 PM

ਕਬੀਰ ਮਨੁ ਜਾਨੈ ਸਭ ਬਾਤ ਜਾਨਤ ਹੀ ਅਉਗਨੁ ਕਰੈ ॥
Kabeer, the mortal (mind) knows everything, and knowing, he still makes mistakes.

ਕਾਹੇ ਕੀ ਕੁਸਲਾਤ ਹਾਥਿ ਦੀਪੁ ਕੂਏ ਪਰੈ ॥੨੧੬॥
What good is a lamp in one's hand, if he falls into the well? ||216|| (Lamp also needs to be fueled up with oil regularly!)

ਕਬੀਰ ਲਾਗੀ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਸੁਜਾਨ ਸਿਉ ਬਰਜੈ ਲੋਗੁ ਅਜਾਨੁ ॥
Kabeer, I am in love with the All-knowing Lord; the ignorant ones (mind and the 5 vices) try to hold me back.

ਤਾ ਸਿਉ ਟੂਟੀ ਕਿਉ ਬਨੈ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਜੀਅ ਪਰਾਨ ॥੨੧੭॥
How could I ever break with the One, who owns our soul and breath of life. ||217||

ਕਬੀਰ ਕੋਠੇ ਮੰਡਪ ਹੇਤੁ ਕਰਿ ਕਾਹੇ ਮਰਹੁ ਸਵਾਰਿ ॥
Kabeer, why kill yourself for your love of decorations of your home and mansion?

ਕਾਰਜੁ ਸਾਢੇ ਤੀਨਿ ਹਥ ਘਨੀ ਤ ਪਉਨੇ ਚਾਰਿ ॥੨੧੮॥
In the end, only six feet, or a little more, shall be your lot. ||218||

ਕਬੀਰ ਜੋ ਮੈ ਚਿਤਵਉ ਨਾ ਕਰੈ ਕਿਆ ਮੇਰੇ ਚਿਤਵੇ ਹੋਇ ॥
Kabeer, whatever I wish for does not happen. What can I accomplish by merely thinking?

ਅਪਨਾ ਚਿਤਵਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਕਰੈ ਜੋ ਮੇਰੇ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥੨੧੯॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/37895-when-life-goes-awry.html
The Lord does whatever He wishes; and the Lord is not in my heart

I think the last line is really important. We are always thinking and trying to predict the future, but we DON'T REMEMBER the one who is going to FASHION the future. I think the whole direction of Gurbani is to replace human behaviour (worries, fear, jealousy, doubt) with the 'natural behaviour' (Simran).

Taranjeet singh · #2 (**permalink**) 18-Jan-2012, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanwaljit Singh

ਕਬੀਰ ਮਨੁ ਜਾਨੈ ਸਭ ਬਾਤ ਜਾਨਤ ਹੀ ਅਉਗਨੁ ਕਰੈ ॥
Kabeer, the mortal (mind) knows everything, and knowing, he still makes mistakes.

ਕਾਹੇ ਕੀ ਕੁਸਲਾਤ ਹਾਥਿ ਦੀਪੁ ਕੂਏ ਪਰੈ ॥੨੧੬॥
What good is a lamp in one's hand, if he falls into the well? ||216|| (Lamp also needs to be fueled up with oil regularly!)

ਕਬੀਰ ਲਾਗੀ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਸੁਜਾਨ ਸਿਉ ਬਰਜੈ ਲੋਗੁ ਅਜਾਨੁ ॥
Kabeer, I am in love with the All-knowing Lord; the ignorant ones (mind and the 5 vices) try to hold me back.

ਤਾ ਸਿਉ ਟੂਟੀ ਕਿਉ ਬਨੈ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਜੀਅ ਪਰਾਨ ॥੨੧੭॥
How could I ever break with the One, who owns our soul and breath of life. ||217||

ਕਬੀਰ ਕੋਠੇ ਮੰਡਪ ਹੇਤੁ ਕਰਿ ਕਾਹੇ ਮਰਹੁ ਸਵਾਰਿ ॥
Kabeer, why kill yourself for your love of decorations of your home and mansion?

ਕਾਰਜੁ ਸਾਢੇ ਤੀਨਿ ਹਥ ਘਨੀ ਤ ਪਉਨੇ ਚਾਰਿ ॥੨੧੮॥
In the end, only six feet, or a little more, shall be your lot. ||218||

ਕਬੀਰ ਜੋ ਮੈ ਚਿਤਵਉ ਨਾ ਕਰੈ ਕਿਆ ਮੇਰੇ ਚਿਤਵੇ ਹੋਇ ॥
Kabeer, whatever I wish for does not happen. What can I accomplish by merely thinking?

ਅਪਨਾ ਚਿਤਵਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਕਰੈ ਜੋ ਮੇਰੇ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥੨੧੯॥
The Lord does whatever He wishes; and the Lord is not in my heart

I think the last line is really important. We are always thinking and trying to predict the future, but we DON'T REMEMBER the one who is going to FASHION the future. I think the whole direction of Gurbani is to replace human behaviour (worries, fear, jealousy, doubt) with the 'natural behaviour' (Simran).

Dear Kanwaljit ji,

I have few doubts . But kindly let me know your views. Something of this sort was asked by someone few years ago.

ਕਬੀਰ ਮਨੁ ਜਾਨੈ ਸਭ ਬਾਤ ਜਾਨਤ ਹੀ ਅਉਗਨੁ ਕਰੈ ॥
ਕਾਹੇ ਕੀ ਕੁਸਲਾਤ ਹਾਥਿ ਦੀਪੁ ਕੂਏ ਪਰੈ
Everything is in His command ..mortal is just helpless..where is the mistake of mortal? It is His Command or wish that the mortal's well of common sense gets dried up. So be it..Mind is also moulded and fashioned by Him. Mind also gets peace when soul gets peace and mind also merges with the One with whom the soul merges.

ਕਬੀਰ ਲਾਗੀ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਸੁਜਾਨ ਸਿਉ ਬਰਜੈ ਲੋਗੁ ਅਜਾਨੁ ॥
Even 'Ajaan" are mortals guided by Him..What is wring here...? Ajaan can be one who is in milder term a criticizer though may not be a slanderer.

ਤਾ ਸਿਉ ਟੂਟੀ ਕਿਉ ਬਨੈ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਜੀਅ ਪਰਾਨ ॥
It is only who lives in us through this body fashioned by Him as His dwelling place..what is the role of Mortal.? We came here without our wish and shall leave like this as well. What is the role of the individual in this process.?
It is His play set in motion by Him. He has set forth some rules for himself and he is tormenting himself through this soul that is also divine.

It is only who lives in us through this body fashioned by Him as His dwelling place..what is the role of Mortal.?

ਕਬੀਰ ਕੋਠੇ ਮੰਡਪ ਹੇਤੁ ਕਰਿ ਕਾਹੇ ਮਰਹੁ ਸਵਾਰਿ ॥
It can make one pessimist..One should have rational mix of physical pleasures and devotional aspects or should conflate the two appropriately.
What do you think?

ਕਬੀਰ ਕੋਠੇ ਮੰਡਪ ਹੇਤੁ ਕਰਿ ਕਾਹੇ ਮਰਹੁ ਸਵਾਰਿ ॥
Because it is human tendency...One cannot expect salvation by sitting on road in cold wintery nights and sleep on foot path. Mortal has to buy his milk and pay his bill.....even next lines are covered by this.

ਕਾਰਜੁ ਸਾਢੇ ਤੀਨਿ ਹਥ ਘਨੀ ਤ ਪਉਨੇ ਚਾਰਿ
ਕਬੀਰ ਜੋ ਮੈ ਚਿਤਵਉ ਨਾ ਕਰੈ ਕਿਆ ਮੇਰੇ ਚਿਤਵੇ ਹੋਇ ॥
ਅਪਨਾ ਚਿਤਵਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਕਰੈ ਜੋ ਮੇਰੇ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਇ

What is the future?...If we remember Him...Let us ask few things into considerations.

1. who is remembering Him?
2. My mind...It is also his ; he fashions it and gives me understanding that mind should remember Him so that the soul knotted in mind gets released. But I shall get my turn.Is it so?

Please offer your comments and ignore that is not put correctly. Please take your time. There is no need of any hurry.

Best wishes.

I take your leave now .It is 18th Jan here. Gud Nite as per my time.

harry haller · #3 (**permalink**) 18-Jan-2012, 02:32 AM

I think the last line is really important. We are always thinking and trying to predict the future, but we DON'T REMEMBER the one who is going to FASHION the future. I think the whole direction of Gurbani is to replace human behaviour (worries, fear, jealousy, doubt) with the 'natural behaviour' (Simran).
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37895
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37895

Before I embraced Sikhi as fully as I have, My thinking was all over the place, I had no foundations, no plans, all I knew, deep down in my heart, was that I had an inner voice, a few other voices that kept dragging me down, and something else, something I called the Universal Truth, this truth was THE truth as far as I was concerned, and something told me that if I followed this truth, my life would be as per Hukam, and that is what I believe Hukam is, what happens if you behave naturally, soon after I found Guruji, well that is to say I was able to put a name to the thoughts and voices in my head, the thieves, Guruji, the natural me, the universal truths, all made sense, is humbling to see the myriad of old thoughts represented by Bani, humbling and pleasurable, thank you Veerji

harry haller · #4 (**permalink**) 18-Jan-2012, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taranjeet singh

Dear Kanwaljit ji,

I have few doubts . But kindly let me know your views. Something of this sort was asked by someone few years ago.

ਕਬੀਰ ਮਨੁ ਜਾਨੈ ਸਭ ਬਾਤ ਜਾਨਤ ਹੀ ਅਉਗਨੁ ਕਰੈ ॥
ਕਾਹੇ ਕੀ ਕੁਸਲਾਤ ਹਾਥਿ ਦੀਪੁ ਕੂਏ ਪਰੈ
Everything is in His command ..mortal is just helpless..where is the mistake of mortal? It is His Command or wish that the mortal's well of common sense gets dried up. So be it..Mind is also moulded and fashioned by Him. Mind also gets peace when soul gets peace and mind also merges with the One with whom the soul merges. I find this hard to agree with, we make our choices, we are not helpless, its very easy , listen to Guruji in your head, and everything is Hukam

ਕਬੀਰ ਲਾਗੀ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਸੁਜਾਨ ਸਿਉ ਬਰਜੈ ਲੋਗੁ ਅਜਾਨੁ ॥
Even 'Ajaan" are mortals guided by Him..What is wring here...? Ajaan can be one who is in milder term a criticizer though may not be a slanderer.

ਤਾ ਸਿਉ ਟੂਟੀ ਕਿਉ ਬਨੈ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਜੀਅ ਪਰਾਨ ॥
It is only who lives in us through this body fashioned by Him as His dwelling place..what is the role of Mortal.? We came here without our wish and shall leave like this as well. What is the role of the individual in this process.?
It is His play set in motion by Him. He has set forth some rules for himself and he is tormenting himself through this soul that is also divine.

It is only who lives in us through this body fashioned by Him as His dwelling place..what is the role of Mortal.? In my view the role of the Mortal is to come to peace with the thieves, not allow the mortal to be controlled by them, but to use them to assist the mortal, and subsequently to be of a disposition to be guided by Guruji and embrace Hukam

ਕਬੀਰ ਕੋਠੇ ਮੰਡਪ ਹੇਤੁ ਕਰਿ ਕਾਹੇ ਮਰਹੁ ਸਵਾਰਿ ॥
It can make one pessimist..One should have rational mix of physical pleasures and devotional aspects or should conflate the two appropriately.
What do you think? we are meant to be householders, this is an interpretation that is personal, on the whole I think one should achieve whatever goals one has, but in the spirit of Sikhi, ie, by honest means, anything is possible, and yes, there should be a rational mix of physical pleasures and devotional aspects otherwise we risk temptation to excel at devotion, ash rubbing, sitting on mountains

ਕਬੀਰ ਕੋਠੇ ਮੰਡਪ ਹੇਤੁ ਕਰਿ ਕਾਹੇ ਮਰਹੁ ਸਵਾਰਿ ॥
Because it is human tendency...One cannot expect salvation by sitting on road in cold wintery nights and sleep on foot path. Mortal has to buy his milk and pay his bill.....even next lines are covered by this. AGREED!!

ਕਾਰਜੁ ਸਾਢੇ ਤੀਨਿ ਹਥ ਘਨੀ ਤ ਪਉਨੇ ਚਾਰਿ
ਕਬੀਰ ਜੋ ਮੈ ਚਿਤਵਉ ਨਾ ਕਰੈ ਕਿਆ ਮੇਰੇ ਚਿਤਵੇ ਹੋਇ ॥
ਅਪਨਾ ਚਿਤਵਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਕਰੈ ਜੋ ਮੇਰੇ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਇ

What is the future?...If we remember Him...Let us ask few things into considerations.

1. who is remembering Him?
2. My mind...It is also his ; he fashions it and gives me understanding that mind should remember Him so that the soul knotted in mind gets released. But I shall get my turn.Is it so?

Please offer your comments and ignore that is not put correctly. Please take your time. There is no need of any hurry.

Best wishes.

I take your leave now .It is 18th Jan here. Gud Nite as per my time.

peacesign

Kanwaljit Singh · #5 (**permalink**) 18-Jan-2012, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Everything is in His command ..mortal is just helpless..where is the mistake of mortal? It is His Command or wish that the mortal's well of common sense gets dried up. So be it..Mind is also moulded and fashioned by Him. Mind also gets peace when soul gets peace and mind also merges with the One with whom the soul merges.

Mistake? What mistake veerji? We only see mistakes! For Waheguru, it is just His Creation. How does the soul 'merge'? I guess the souls already part of Waheguru, we are in doubt because of duality of mind. Once we give that up, we are fine. Yes it is hard to understand and explain, and that's why duality is something hard to get rid of.

Quote:

ਕਬੀਰ ਲਾਗੀ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਸੁਜਾਨ ਸਿਉ ਬਰਜੈ ਲੋਗੁ ਅਜਾਨੁ ॥
Even 'Ajaan" are mortals guided by Him..What is wring here...? Ajaan can be one who is in milder term a criticizer though may not be a slanderer.

That also depends, are ajaan person guided by Waheguru or by their own whim? Like I may report to my manager in my office, but I spend my whole day doing Facebook, then am not guided by my manager for sure!

Quote:

ਤਾ ਸਿਉ ਟੂਟੀ ਕਿਉ ਬਨੈ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਜੀਅ ਪਰਾਨ ॥
It is only who lives in us through this body fashioned by Him as His dwelling place..what is the role of Mortal.? We came here without our wish and shall leave like this as well. What is the role of the individual in this process.?
It is His play set in motion by Him. He has set forth some rules for himself and he is tormenting himself through this soul that is also divine.

Before we compare our small existence with that of Waheguru and His Kudrat, think of you in your country! What role does a citizen have in the country? Nothing really significant. Still the citizen has to act in a way that's in best interest of himself and people around him. Yet how the whole nation dynamics work, it's totally awesome.

Quote:

ਕਬੀਰ ਕੋਠੇ ਮੰਡਪ ਹੇਤੁ ਕਰਿ ਕਾਹੇ ਮਰਹੁ ਸਵਾਰਿ ॥
It can make one pessimist..One should have rational mix of physical pleasures and devotional aspects or should conflate the two appropriately.
What do you think?

I really don't know, but I believe that devotional things stick to you better. For me, I don't remember that great restaurant I went to, or some nice sleep I had in a getaway resort, but I still remember the bliss I had in some kirtan samagams I attended in the last couple of years. Maybe things will become clearer with time.

Quote:

1. who is remembering Him?
2. My mind...It is also his ; he fashions it and gives me understanding that mind should remember Him so that the soul knotted in mind gets released. But I shall get my turn.Is it so?

'Release' of soul would happen with .99 probability in time t as t tends to infinity

Taranjeet singh · #6 (**permalink**) 18-Jan-2012, 10:03 AM

Very well summed up Dear kanwaljit ji. All questions answered.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37895
Thank you Harry ji for quick response.

Regards