Why does Caste still Persist with Sikhs?

Akasha · #1 (**permalink**) 31-Jul-2012, 10:44 AM

My question arises because I have been talking to a Sikh guy who I really like. I found out his last name is a Ramgharia name, and locally I have been going to Gurdwara with mostly Sikhs who are Jatt background... But aren't Sikhs supposed to shun caste completely? Why does it still persist in India (and even among Sikhs who are Outside India)?

If things were to work out between myself and this man (who seems like a very sweet and smart guy - he's an architect) would the Sikhs here locally who are mostly Jatt accept him fully? Is he considered to be from a low caste as Ramgharia?

I don't really know how this works out, because I'm a white Sikh... and thought caste was supposed to be null between Sikhs? So I am a bit confused that the caste idea is even brought up at all!
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/general-discussion/38861-why-does-caste-still-persist-sikhs.html

I can't even fathom caste difference, and I wouldn't care - no matter what I think he a genuine and kind person who I will stick by.

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #2 (**permalink**) 31-Jul-2012, 12:14 PM

Akasha Ji..go ahead. Caste is one piece of trash the sikhs just fell in love with and refuse to send it out.its sort of sentimental valued but still TRASH. Guru Ji threw it all out centuries ago...but we sikhs stealthily brought it back IN...

AkashdeepSingh · #3 (**permalink**) 31-Jul-2012, 21:00 PM

You should go ahead alot of Sikhs are just so attached to this foolish system they just dont know anything else since its been so reinforced in their lives they see it as the truth.

Akasha · #4 (**permalink**) 31-Jul-2012, 22:45 PM

Thanks... I don't plan on letting any of that actually affect who I associate with since I see everyone as equal anyway... just as Sikhi teaches. The conversation only came up this last Sunday because I asked someone why there were several styles of turbans there... I actually thought it was just personal preference how someone tied their turban, but it turns out you can tell where someone is from by the way they tie their turban. And that's how I found out that majority of people at the local Gurdwara are Jatt - but there are others who tie it differently there as well (prompting me to ask about it).

Joginder Singh Foley · #5 (**permalink**) 31-Jul-2012, 23:19 PM

WJKKWJKF Sat Siri Akal

Read the operators manual for Sikhs "Caste is Folly Caste is humbug" p83 Ive Read loads of other passages in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji degererating caste but this is the one i can remember. Caste has NOTHING AND NO PLACE IN SIKHI end of
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38861

harry haller · #6 (**permalink**) 01-Aug-2012, 00:40 AM

I do belong to a caste, and it causes me nothing but problems. My caste is the Chamczaxcmoiuwoo caste, and yes, I am an unpronouncable. It means I cannot get a job or get married or anything. I cannot even pronounce my own name, it is a stigma I have suffered all my life.

One day I hope to travel to Germany, where there is a centre for people like me, they teach us basic pronunciation, how to say 'dog' or 'cat', yeah it starts off slowly, and then maybe one day, I might actually be able to pronounce my name.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38861
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38861

Luckysingh · #7 (**permalink**) 01-Aug-2012, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akasha

Thanks... I don't plan on letting any of that actually affect who I associate with since I see everyone as equal anyway... just as Sikhi teaches. The conversation only came up this last Sunday because I asked someone why there were several styles of turbans there... I actually thought it was just personal preference how someone tied their turban, but it turns out you can tell where someone is from by the way they tie their turban. And that's how I found out that majority of people at the local Gurdwara are Jatt - but there are others who tie it differently there as well (prompting me to ask about it).

That is quite true to an extent. You see the style of turbans also range from the geographical areas as well.
We generally find that the ramgharias have a style that was very popular in Africa in places like Kenya. This compact well starched style is popular among them and their generations in the west.
I wouldn't go as far as to say that you can tell the cast from a turban style, but you can certainly tell the ramgharia ones. Although nowadays some younger boys prefer this compact and starched style so they adopt it anyway. Then you find that the cast is no longer a dividing barrier as another person of different origin will have adopted it!!

Like others have said, it is a sad cutural issue that has been carried over to the west and it is not about sikhism. However, sadly, we do find that certain castes still like to remain away from others and they therefore have their own gurdwaras like the ramgharia...etc...- This is something that we can see the future generations don't agree with.

I find the best way is to stay away from such gurdwaras if you can. I know that doesn't sound very nice or like any good advice but a lot of young ones including myself avoid these gurdwaras and attend the many others that are completely neutral and have no caste or area attachment.
This way the people that run these gurdwaras will eventually realise that they don't get enough support because of this status and will hopefully make amends.

In your situation I would take no notice of this status. You are free to go wherever you please and that should not cause any objections from anyone.
In practice and reality I have never heard of any body talk about a non-ramgharia attending a ragmgharia gurdwara. It just doesn't happen, there may be some little small talk among one or two but that's about it. This little small talk gossip occurs between the same one or two not just about caste but anything from the car you drive to the clothes you wear, it's just their sad nature to yap about whatever they can find!!!

So, go ahead feel free to talkand mix with whoever you please!!

Luckysingh · #8 (**permalink**) 01-Aug-2012, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harry haller

I do belong to a caste, and it causes me nothing but problems. My caste is the Chamczaxcmoiuwoo caste, and yes, I am an unpronouncable. It means I cannot get a job or get married or anything. I cannot even pronounce my own name, it is a stigma I have suffered all my life.

One day I hope to travel to Germany, where there is a centre for people like me, they teach us basic pronunciation, how to say 'dog' or 'cat', yeah it starts off slowly, and then maybe one day, I might actually be able to pronounce my name.

At least you know your caste!!
I have the problem that I thought I belonged to the stuntman caste, until I went to Hollywood and got rejected!!!
Now, I don't know what to do as I feel I don't belong anywhere!!!

Ishna · #9 (**permalink**) 01-Aug-2012, 09:47 AM

I had no idea different styles had any meaning other than personal taste. Next you're gonna tell me the colours mean something too! (except navy blue and saffron, I figured that one out

)
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38861

Can someone provide a picture of a Ramgharia-style turban please?

Thanks