Akhand Paath in languages other than the original

Ishna · #1 (**permalink**) 19-Jul-2012, 06:29 AM

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Ishna · #2 (**permalink**) 19-Jul-2012, 06:30 AM

Post from Kanwaljit Singh ji

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanwaljit Singh

See this new video and how they subtly OK reading from translation during Akhand Paath:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siJDoPRRCNw&feature=plcp " target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siJDoPRRCNw&feature=plcp

Ishna · #3 (**permalink**) 19-Jul-2012, 06:32 AM

Post by yours truly

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ishna

Kanwaljit bhaji

I see Guruka Singh saying he's seen it done. Is that a problem?

Is an akhand paath in English less than an akhand paath in Punjabi? If so, why?

Ishna · #4 (**permalink**) 19-Jul-2012, 06:33 AM

Post by Taranjeet Singh ji

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taranjeet singh

Ishna ji,

Sorry for barging in.

It is abtrusive to explain this. But the following shall answer your query. I am giving the full write up for the sake of completeness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhand_Path

Following is an extract taken from Sikh Rehat Maryada

http://sgpc.net/rehat_maryada/section_three_chap_five.html

Speaking Personally, Akhand Paath is to be carried out in the language the Granth has been written as there cannot be any translation of Bani with cent percent accuracy in any language and that is why Gurmukhi is the script that is to be read during Akhand Paath.

But necessity is the mother of invention. If there is no choice with someone who do not know Gurmukhi It is then Akhand Path may be carried out in English.

.. not sure if SRM says anything about this. I have yet to attend a Paath that has been carried out in English and it would be true for most of us in India who have made it a point to learn Gurmukhi. I have also learnt Gurmukhi through private tutions just for reading Bani.

Coming back to your question there cannot be anything right or wrong; it all boils down to individual's happiness and peace of mind that is the objective of all living being. If one is happy with Akhand Paath being carried out in English-what is wrong in this? Let it be so because ultimately it is between you and Your God, anyway.

Ishna · #5 (**permalink**) 19-Jul-2012, 06:34 AM

Post by Kanwaljit Singh ji

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanwaljit Singh

If Gurus wanted the Paath to be read in other languages, they would have authorized it while they were there. All this while, we have Gurbani written in other scripts, but the translations are not used. And his example of sevadar with stick and the granthi sleeping has nothing to do with what he was talking about. Ishna ji, what you would you like to listen to? What Guru is telling you (Gurbani) or what someone thinks Guru is telling you (Translation)?

Ishna · #6 (**permalink**) 19-Jul-2012, 06:35 AM

Post by Luckysingh ji

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckysingh

Reading in translation is NOT acceptable. This is coming from a 1st language english speaking second generation brit.
I have self taught myself to read a little, even though it is quite slow, BUT I would be offended if someone was doing an akhand path dedicated to my father in an english translation.
Sometimes I find it faster and easier to read in a well written transliteration where the spoken language is still gurmukhi. Now someone doing an akhand path in such manner would actually go unoticable if done properly, as one would not be able to tell if he/she is reading from gurmukhi script or transliteration.
For someone of my background and understanding, this would be acceptable as long as there were no errors in pronounciation.

Ishna · #7 (**permalink**) 19-Jul-2012, 10:02 AM

The issue of language is an interesting one.

Kanwaljit ji, you say that if the Guru's wanted the paath to be read in other languages they would have authorised it -- isn't it almost implied by their use of so many languages within Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji? To me, it seems they used language as tools to reach a broad spectrum of people. I personally don't like the 'if they wanted it to be allowed they would have said so' argument because time doesn't stand still. The argument could be made that Gurbani shouldn't be stored on computers, because the Guruji hasn't authorised it.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/general-discussion/38801-akhand-paath-languages-other-than-original.html

I kinda ignored the sevadar with the stick part of the story.

Brother, you asked me "what you would you like to listen to? What Guru is telling you (Gurbani) or what someone thinks Guru is telling you (Translation)?" I will be honest - listening to language you don't understand is boooooring! It's nothing. It is just sounds. It is good for relaxation meditation only. I would prefer to listen to quality translation and extrapolation at a plausible speed. I don't think I'll ever have a good enough command of Gurbani to comprehend it at akhand paath speed.

Having said that, I 100% agree that learning Gurmukhi (to be able to read) and learning the meaning of the words in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji should be paramount!! Common language is uniting, and we never want to see Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj end up like some scriptures which are all English and so far from the original language that no one knows what the original even means anymore.

But where are the resources to help learn this?? It is frustrating! - Show me resources where I can learn! Ironically, one of the only resources I've managed to find was a 300-word dictionary I downloaded from Sikhnet!!!

Ultimately, the Creator over-rules any language anyway. The message is the important bit. The message is universal.

Lucky ji - are you saying you would prefer them to be reading from the Gurmukhi script in addition to saying the Punjabi words? Or it doesn't matter to you if they are speaking the Punjabi words as written with English letters (transliteration)?

Surely it is better to understand than not understand. Surely it is better to be learning the original than be stuck with translations. Personally, if I see the word 'Word' in English translations instead of the word 'Shabad' one more time I'm gonna explode - it drives me nuts now!! But this is after some years of learning - learning is gradual, it is cruel to exclude non-Punjabi speaking people from the light of the Guru because of something as secondary as language.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38801

IMHO.

Luckysingh · #8 (**permalink**) 19-Jul-2012, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ishna

Lucky ji - are you saying you would prefer them to be reading from the Gurmukhi script in addition to saying the Punjabi words? Or it doesn't matter to you if they are speaking the Punjabi words as written with English letters (transliteration)?

IMHO.

Ishnaji, i'm not sure what part of my post you don't understand!!
I made it clear in my post that it doesn't or wouldn't matter to me if they were reading the gurmukhi from englsh words (transliteration), punjabi words or chinese!! As they would still all be heard in gurmukhi if the pronounciation was correct.
So, I have No problem with anyone reading transliteration as the words are pronounced in the language intended.
It's just with translated versions where the true essence is easily lost, that I would not agree with.

harry haller · #9 (**permalink**) 19-Jul-2012, 12:04 PM

The problem with translations is that they are so different to each other, during one of my many spats with dear brother Chazji, I came across the following

ਤੂੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਕਰਿ ਰਾਜ ਜੋਗੁ ॥੧॥ तूं गुर प्रसादि करि राज जोगु ॥१॥ Ŧūŉ gur parsāḏ kar rāj jog. ||1|| By Guru's Grace, practice Raja Yoga, the Yoga of meditation and success. ||1||
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38801
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38801

ਤੂੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਕਰਿ ਰਾਜ ਜੋਗੁ ॥੧॥ तूं गुर प्रसादि करि राज जोगु ॥१॥ Ŧūŉ gur parsāḏ kar rāj jog. ||1|| By Guru's grace thou shalt enjoy secular and spiritual sovereignty.

Both from Srigranth.org, one is Bhai Manmohan Singh, one is Sant Singh Khalsa.

I have no problem with an Akhand Path being read in native Mongolian by a Chinaman with a strong Jamaican accent, however, if one line can have so many different meanings once translated, is it the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, that you are actually reading? You could end up with an Akhand Path consisting of complete Kachi bani and not even realise it......... So clearly the only way is to learn Gurmukhi. Yes it is hard, I am also finding it hard, but with every victory comes a better realisation. Even it if takes you 5 years, at least your understanding is in your own hands.